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Am I doing something wrong or is it way too difficult to make bridges now? I pull a street across some water and, even with the same land height on either side, I get "in water". Like no poo poo, it's supposed to be in water. I get the same thing using the actual bridges.
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Dec 30, 2023 20:57
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Try starting the road at the shore, then raise it to however much depth the river gorge has and make a segment to halfway across, then a segment going back down to the other shore.
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Dec 30, 2023 21:29
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And if you want boats under it, it needs to be some 50 meters tall with a wide span between pylons.
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Dec 30, 2023 23:39
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Okay so the pilings don't automatically hit the bottom of the water. Thanks!
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Dec 31, 2023 00:02
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Grand Fromage posted:There are mods now if you want to get into unsupported stuff, but official mod support is early next year. Prop Anarchy mod got released today so detailing of cities is go. I'll probably wait until the 'official' mod release so I don't have to restart my city though.
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Dec 31, 2023 00:28
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serious gaylord posted:Prop Anarchy mod got released today so detailing of cities is go. Yep, that's what I'm doing. Seems likely the unofficial mods will break and saves will be dead.
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Dec 31, 2023 01:05
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Something in my budget just flipped because I just went from like a 100K month in income to 20 million. I have 200 million banked.
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Dec 31, 2023 02:43
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why, in a city of 20k with a few good subway lines, does no one ever take the drat subway? Usage is at 0 for both cims and tourists EDIT: because all this time I had one misalignment where my subway went from above ground to underground, which was connected but the stupid game said it wasn't Rev. Bleech_ fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Jan 1, 2024 06:59
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I bit the bullet and started playing with mods since we're still well aways from the next Word of the Week telling us how far away we are from official mods. They're nice, its nice having them, really improves on the base game. There's of course the line tool, the extended road upgrades so you can build sea walls easily, the classic anarchy so you don't have to fret about the games stupid building rules, and this neat one that tries to un-gently caress the game's land value and rent simulations. There's also a mod to unlock all 529 tiles from the start. I don't mind the in-game tile buying process to be honest, but having them all unlocked at the beginning does feel so much better. You should be able to get tile unlocks twice as fast in vanilla, in my opinion, otherwise you just get so cramped, and can't really build multiple small towns dotted around (unless you learn to live with the annoying flashing no-power/no-water icons). I really like CityPlannerPlays' Magnolia map, which gives you a lot more even land and realistic slopes, as well as making the whole map arable land instead of........tiny spots here and there (you know.... like how farmland works in real life, you can only have small fields here and there, that's how it works right?). And HistoricalStart, where you start with railways, shipping, and specialized industry unlocked, so you don't have to build a big heavy manufacturing industrial district before you can make......farms. It's nice but kinda makes me mad, since it just makes so much more sense than what CO does by default. It'd be even better if it gave you those 2 lane simple highways too, the kind that are on maps at the start but you can't replace if you delete. I simply do not understand what goes behind the decisions CO makes, but I've gotta stop myself there. Also here's a video where Biffa goes over a traffic lights mod that lets you do fun things with intersection timing that seems to work tremendously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUGg1QQiZLU piratepilates fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 01:35
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Is there any kind of mod loader atm, or is it just the old fashioned method?
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Jan 3, 2024 04:10
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This is probably something only I want, but I'd love to see a mod that opens all tiles for road/rail building only, so that you can have that progression but also have early industrial districts safely downwind, or buy a promising stretch of water "from the county" for a dam or municipal reservoir before getting out to it. OTOH I suppose this is also a golden way to turbofuck yourself if you go for a road connection to one of the non-prebuilt borders, since as soon as you do a highway worth of thru traffic jumps in. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 04:21
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piratepilates posted:And HistoricalStart, where you start with railways, shipping, and specialized industry unlocked, so you don't have to build a big heavy manufacturing industrial district before you can make......farms. It's nice but kinda makes me mad, since it just makes so much more sense than what CO does by default. It'd be even better if it gave you those 2 lane simple highways too, the kind that are on maps at the start but you can't replace if you delete. I simply do not understand what goes behind the decisions CO makes, but I've gotta stop myself there. I also hate this bit, but I assume their decision is to use the milestones as a sort of tutorial-like gating of the different 'mechanics.' Farms are weird and different if you haven't had to draw a field before, and you might not realize that it doesn't provide tons of jobs. Things like rail and specialized industry might be a trap for new players - expensive and require a decent amount of set up - even if that sounds kind of silly and the sort of mistake you make once, figure out, and move on. Even the two lane highways could screw people up, "why can't I zone along my road!" Not defending it in the least - I feel like most of the people sticking with the game are going to be people who none of this matters to and even for entirely new-to-the-genre players, these things feel like they're making the learning curve excessively gentle, if that was their idea.
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Jan 3, 2024 06:05
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I really enjoyed the pseudo-tutorial baked into the tech tree. For my first city.
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Jan 3, 2024 06:19
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Unbound posted:Is there any kind of mod loader atm, or is it just the old fashioned method? I've been using the "Thunderstore" which has a mod manager of its own, https://www.overwolf.com/oneapp/Thunderstore-Thunderstore_Mod_Manager Seems like all the legit mods are on it, it handles updates and stuff, it works pretty well.
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Jan 3, 2024 06:35
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One thing this game does a lot better than the first Skylines is the gradual increase of size from SFH -> rowhomes -> medium residential/mixed/High density commercial -> high density office/residential. You can make much more natural looking cities just through zoning and its great.
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Jan 3, 2024 09:38
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Away all Goats posted:One thing this game does a lot better than the first Skylines is the gradual increase of size from SFH -> rowhomes -> medium residential/mixed/High density commercial -> high density office/residential. You can make much more natural looking cities just through zoning and its great. Good, this was something that really bugged me about the first game. I'm getting closer and closer to buying it. I'll definitely wait for the proper mod release and maybe for the simulation to improve a bit more.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:49
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when do the people start wanting more than low density residential and industrial, because goddamn.
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Jan 4, 2024 01:02
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Low density residential demand cannot be satiated, but you can just ignore it. You don't have to follow the demand bars.
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Jan 4, 2024 01:18
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See also: IRL.
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Jan 4, 2024 01:28
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:when do the people start wanting more than low density residential and industrial, because goddamn. They don't, the demand bars are stupid and misleading, and its best to mostly ignore them. Demand bars are maxed out? It's fine, doesn't mean you need to do anything. Demand bars are bottomed out? Don't build that thing, maybe build things alluring to residential if you want more of that to come -- i.e. parks and cops and fire departments and whatever. First rule of the game is to stop living by the demand bars, because they're dumb as poo poo and the developers did a terrible job with them, and only serves to mislead users. There are several mods, if you're in to that kind of thing, to provide more useful info displays that will let you know what's actually happening: https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/Infixo/Info_Loom/ https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/Cities2Modding/ExtendedTooltip/ https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/CaptainOfCoit/CityMonitor/ https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/Cities2Modding/UnemploymentMonitor/
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Jan 4, 2024 02:06
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Yeah the demand bars are more like desire bars. It indicates something will grow if you zone it, nothing more.
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Jan 4, 2024 03:00
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Isn't that what demand is? Demand literally means "people want this". But just because people want something doesn't mean it's a good idea to do.
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Jan 4, 2024 07:47
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Yes, it's demand in the market research sense, not in the angry boss sense.
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Jan 4, 2024 08:42
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Yeah absolutely, but it's not really how city sim players interpret it, because it has almost always meant "Yo you need some of this poo poo pronto" in the genre
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Jan 4, 2024 08:43
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my goal is to try to get my demand bars maxed out as much as possible, if you have zero demand then something is very wrong with your city.
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Jan 4, 2024 17:27
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If the demand meters aren’t the way to determine what your city is in need of, what else should I use to guide what I’m building?
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Jan 4, 2024 19:55
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blastron posted:If the demand meters aren’t the way to determine what your city is in need of, what else should I use to guide what I’m building? The unemployment and open jobs statistics, as well as education levels and such.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:15
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Bored at work and the modding discords aren't very active today, so I started looking through the bug reports. Real, uh, interesting stuff in there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfepfCkWaDU Apparently trams and trains and busses wait until every passenger assigned to them enter the vehicle, or something like that. As a result, if the last passenger is delayed for whatever reason, your trains/trams/busses will just sit there waiting until they're able to board: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/picking-passengers-on-one-stop-takes-hours.1607658/page-4#posts So if you have, say like in the video, a dog that's assigned to a train, you have to wait for that dog to walk across the river to enter the train before it can leave, even if that takes hours, days, etc. If its a bus or tram, then it has to sit at the stop, afaict blocking everything behind, until the last passenger boards, if that ever happens. There's also the land value issue with industry, that many people may be familiar with: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/land-value-bugged-since-latest-update.1617289/ . I'm not actually sure if that's a bug or if its by design and the design is just stupid. There's a bug around cargo harbours not exporting goods: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/cargo-habor-not-exporting.1617947/ , but I'm pretty sure they'll still serve as a hub for goods, so trucks will fill it up with stuff but it never leaves and gets sold. This other thread has an interesting hypothesis on it, where they posit that cargo hubs appear as outside connections to the simulation, and trucks will deliver cargo to them as if they were an outside connection, but once that's done the cargo just sits there and doesn't get exported and just gets treated as if it was, "If businesses are exporting via road, when a truck arrives to the edge of the map and despawns the good gets added to the connection's storage then, on the next calculation, the delivered goods disappear and the storage resets to its median value. However, because the hub isn't a true external connection it doesn't perform that final step. Goods at the train station are meant to be transported to the edge of the map. By the game logic, goods stored at a hub no reason to be shipped anywhere: the game considers the good as being off-map once it arrives to a cargo hub." Apparently parks don't have any activity: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/nobody-uses-parks.1606365/ , they provide happiness to residents, but it's unclear if they're actually used by cims, and if they do, then they don't seem to have an animation for it. It appears that jails may not actually work, if you've ever noticed your jails and prisons being empty, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/police-car-not-taking-criminals-to-jail.1604886/ . "The police car gets dispatched to the crime scene, parks in front of the building then leaves. Shortly afterwards the "robber" cim walks out of the building towards the street where the police car used to be parked. Clicking that cim, it shows the status "going to jail" like they've been arrested. Once reaching the street the cim either teleports back to their residence or to outside the map and avoids jail completely." And then there's this thread that's more of a quick rant about the rock star mansion, but I think points at a really bad design decision: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/why-when-i-place-a-rock-musician-mansion-a-specialized-super-cool-unique-building.1620132/ From a few posts they made on a discord too: "im pretty sure they dont actually care about the cost of a building. if people are gonna move in, they do it- no matter what. say there's low density demand, and you hand-plop a 5/5 house. randos will move in no questions asked. thats basically what happened with the rock mansion. you can test pretty easy with a new city and dev mode, just plop level 5 houses down and watch as tons of people move in and immediately abandon them because theyre all completely uneducated and have no money". Like I'm pretty sure, but haven't tested or confirmed, that cims don't move in based on what they can afford, they move in to a place first, calculate rent, and then see if its too high, which would be really really dumb. edit: more details on that last one here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/abandoned-low-rent-housing.1620116/#post-29348494 piratepilates fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 21:07
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:when do the people start wanting more than low density residential and industrial, because goddamn. This is my current city  The low density residential has been at that 30-40% point for a while now, though I don't recall when it started really dropping. Possibly when I began seriously investing in transit (I have a bout 8 bus lines, 2 subway lines and a train line that goes off-map) which made demand for the other categories skyrocket. Overhead view to show how little sprawl there has been:  The few white buildings on the West end with the Quarry and Farm is 100% of my zoned industrial. You may notice space between them because they don't even move in anymore. My population is very educated, even though I still haven't gotten around to building a university (highest level is college) Away all Goats fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 23:56
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The problem with the demand bars is that it only tells you if you have a lot of demand or not a lot of demand, in very broad strokes, without a really granular picture of how much demand or what's driving it. Like I was trying to figure out what was driving my commercial demand last night, and seeing if I could find an equilibrium. I'm using a mod called InfoLoom that gives you a breakdown of the actual numbers behind it (the same factors are available in the game through that demand modal, but that just says like "- taxes" and "+ local demand" and doesn't tell you what the gently caress that means):  You can see under "Commercial" there's LocalDemand, PetrolLocalDemand, UneducatedWorkforce, Taxes, EducatedWorkforce in this scenario. I was also seeing a huge "LocalDemand" factor, and nothing in the game provides what that is or what a normal amount is. I initially thought it was unsatiated local demand for commercial, as in, I had pocket towns that didn't have enough commercial close by. The commercial visualization mode is garbage, but I went around to the pockets of green (high customer count) peaking through the buildings obscuring them, and placed more commercial around them. Not enough, didn't seem to fulfill it. I broke down and decompiled the game code and tried to figure out what went in to calculating it, and after trying to interpret what variables named "num0" through "num11" meant, as best I can tell, local demand is driven by the sum of: - excess goods being produced (i.e. more goods being produced than being consumed) - available goods (i.e. I think, more goods available in storage, scaled by the maximum amount of storage) So I think it just means there's more industrial goods available out there in my game world than being consumed. It just wants me to build more commercial to match the number of industrial buildings I have, and then I get the feeling once I do that, industrial demand will skyrocket and the LocalDemand for Industrial will be huge. UneducatedWorkforce seems to be the number of workers without any employment, and EducatedWorkforce is the number of workers "under-employed" (e.g. they may be educated workers stuck in an uneducated workforce, and don't have a job matching their education). If you have high unemployment, you'll likely have high commercial demand because people need jobs and commercial buildings provide them. How big of a number is too big for Commercial? What's the optimal amount of demand you'd want for it? I have no idea, beats me. You can see in that screenshot that the LocalDemand factor is 6044, which is 10x higher than the factor for petroleum resources in particular (there's LocalDemand, PetrolLocalDemand, and TouristDemand), which are both way bigger than the workforce numbers. In my local game (the screenshot is from the github page for the mod), the numbers for LocalDemand were lower but were still like twice as large as the workforce numbers. Taxes are a weird damper on that, since they don't provide nor damper demand at 10% (in this game's world, all taxes are optimal in their effect on demand at 10%, without question). Higher taxes just means less demand (note: not no demand, just less than with the optimal 10%), but also means higher revenue for you. Lower taxes raises demand (but provides less revenue), so if you want more people to set up shop, just drop your taxes and they'll suddenly want to come. This would probably have some nuance and interesting play between demand and tax revenue, but after about 10k population you should be making so much money that none of this really matters and you can leave it at 10%. "EmptyBuildings" is a big damper on it. If you have a lot of commercial demand but some empty buildings, then the demand plummets. You can probably see this if you have high commercial demand, then zone a bunch of commercial, the demand plummets, then commercial moves in, then demand goes right back up to where it was. The empty buildings factor makes a giant difference temporarily, but goes away once people move in to those zones -- unless you have way more commercial zoned than you need, which is an impressive feat in this game since it seems like you'd need just as many stores as you do houses. So what was the point of this rambling mess? I don't know. The demand bars are stupid and seem to peg at the max amount really easily for at least one of industrial or commercial at a time. 0 demand for commercial on the bar means you likely have waaaay too much commercial (like seriously if you can accomplish this, kudos to you, that's a ton of commercial zoned) for the industry you have. The number fluctuates wildly when you first zone buildings, but then goes right back to where it was, so how it moves is really unpredictable. Also it doesn't really connect well with how the game feels. I zoned a lot of commercial trying to figure this out and couldn't really feel an appreciable difference before or after. Even if I satiate this commercial demand at a perfect 0, will my city feel noticeably different (aside from now having a store for every man, woman, child, and dog in my city)? Will not zoning enough lead to some kind of crisis for my cims? Would that be evident without pouring through random visualizations and numbers trying to figure this out? Anyway in my opinion the demand bars shouldn't exist in their current form. All it really communicates to you is: - no demand at all, or negative demand (which shows up as 0 on the bar, since it doesn't show negatives) - demand Without any nuance. They might as well make it simpler looking and have it screaming out to you when you have shortages of stuff, screaming out to you when you have negative demand (not temporary negative demand though, since zoning commercial will cause that until the empty buildings you just zoned quickly get filled), and giving you a pleasant thumbs up when you have a healthy balance of workforce utilization and resource consumption. Max demand on the current bars could be "you have absolutely no commercial zoned in your city and it is killing your industrial economy", or it could mean "you have a bunch of leeway for commercial demand, but it won't kill your city". Anything in-between that and no demand is just.........who knows, doesn't seem very important. Oh did I mention that the LocalDemand is a sum of those two things per-resource type by the way? So if your plastics, clothes, alcohol, whatever other resources are all satisfied according to the consumption and production, but your grain has a huge deficit (as many people have noticed, as a likely bug), then your LocalDemand could be big, you zone a bunch of commercial spaces, and presumably (fingers crossed that its doing the smart thing here) only grain-consuming businesses would move in. The demand doesn't tell you what resource has huge demand for a commercial building (since commercial buildings all deal with one and only resource type for each building) to satisfy -- which is a moot point since you can't choose what gets built anyway, you zone commercial and hope the game figures it all out. The game just says "lots of demand for commercial", and you zone a bunch of commercial and go on your merry way, that's the only lever you really pull. edit: Actually scratch that: I think the real problem is that there's just too much demand in this game in general, it's hard to feel a real crunch in it. If you just keep building residential, commercial, and industrial, in even amounts, you shouldn't run in to issues with high or low demand on your city, things will just progress. There's never a time when it feels, to me at least, like you really need to focus on fixing an issue, there's always a lot of demand, there's not a lot of things to kill your city's progress, so it all just kind of chugs along. The SimCity games weren't really that different in the demand bar regard, and they certainly weren't any deeper simulation-wise than CS2, but the demand bars in the SimCity games from what I could remember were mostly hovering around 0-25%, with 100% demand in something being an outlier for your city and a sign you should take action. You had to work for building a city people wanted to live in, and that was the core driver of the game. piratepilates fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jan 6, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 23:30
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Count Roland posted:Good, this was something that really bugged me about the first game. I wouldn't buy it yet because it is at best Cities Skylines 1.25. I bought it when it came out and I have serious buyer's remorse. Hold off for at least 6 months.
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Jan 6, 2024 23:40
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Jonny Shiloh posted:I wouldn't buy it yet because it is at best Cities Skylines 1.25. I bought it when it came out and I have serious buyer's remorse. Hold off for at least 6 months. This is my feeling too, I thought I could power through it despite its issues but the performance combined with many sim aspects being broken just makes the game frustrating and not fun. I would still recommend waiting.
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Jan 6, 2024 23:47
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Count Roland posted:I'll definitely wait for the proper mod release and maybe for the simulation to improve a bit more.
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Jan 7, 2024 05:59
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piratepilates posted:Apparently trams and trains and busses wait until every passenger assigned to them enter the vehicle, or something like that. As a result, if the last passenger is delayed for whatever reason, your trains/trams/busses will just sit there waiting until they're able to board: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/picking-passengers-on-one-stop-takes-hours.1607658/page-4#posts This is a very funny bug from the makers of Cities In Motion.
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Jan 7, 2024 06:21
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Cities Skylines 2: I broke down and decompiled the game code
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Jan 7, 2024 13:13
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piratepilates posted:Bored at work and the modding discords aren't very active today, so I started looking through the bug reports. Real, uh, interesting stuff in there. How do you not have a "driver says 'gently caress this' and takes off and the dog can wait for the next bus" timeout? Honestly that'd actually be even more realistic.
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Jan 7, 2024 13:28
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Is there an explanation for why my medium density are slowly emptying out in the heart of my downtown? they keep slowly losing residents until abandoning, but I have demand and if I bulldoze it immediately rebuilds and gets filled out.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:05
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So is this game worth picking up in its current state? Steam reviews are still pretty harsh but I can put up with some poo poo if the basic elements are solid. I played a few hundred hours of the first one.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:06
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Inzombiac posted:So is this game worth picking up in its current state? Come back in a few months and see. No mod workshop, buggy game, unclear direction. It could be a great base for a solid game better than the first, but right now it still needs a lot of work. Maybe try it out on the Xbox Game Pass For Windows For PC or whatever they're calling it, should be a cheap deal to play it for a few bucks and see. Asproigerosis posted:Is there an explanation for why my medium density are slowly emptying out in the heart of my downtown? they keep slowly losing residents until abandoning, but I have demand and if I bulldoze it immediately rebuilds and gets filled out. Try resetting the land value in the dev tools and seeing if that fixes it. I forget where the option is, but I think it's under the "Simulation" tab, then there's a collapsed section for Land Value. Not sure if its the cause, but there's probably a bug or oversight with the land value calculations so they consistently accumulate and make your city too rich for people to live in: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/land-value-bugged-since-latest-update.1617289/
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Jan 9, 2024 22:19
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Inzombiac posted:So is this game worth picking up in its current state? It feels like an early access title still and lacks a lot of the features that would keep you coming back to play more right now. Unless you are really in to the genre, I would wait for the mod platform to launch. I bought it on launch day, built one city over ~40hrs of gameplay, and wont touch it again until mods are out.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:25
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