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Gatto Grigio posted:Probably because they saw the success that D&D had with doing that to its own 5e! themselves to , since I saw a group of openly Queer artists (along with Sambrano as a consultant )on tumblr have takeing upon them selves to write some fan expansion with a explicit focus on garou history and the future of the garou nation. Ghost Armor 1337 fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Gatto Grigio posted:Probably because they saw the success that D&D had with doing that to its own 5e! No THAC0, no save against X, low level res options, for starters? I’ve always seen 5e as 2000’s era “less brutal realism, more power fantasy” edition. But I started in advanced dnd 2e, so could just be first exposure bias I suppose.
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Jan 1, 2024 05:03
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I ride bikes all day posted:No THAC0, no save against X, low level res options, for starters? I’ve always seen 5e as 2000’s era “less brutal realism, more power fantasy” edition. But I started in advanced dnd 2e, so could just be first exposure bias I suppose. 5e is just a half-assed stripped-down 3e that's basically an ashcan copy that exists to invalidate 4e and for no other real reason.
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Jan 1, 2024 06:33
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Ghost Leviathan posted:5e is just a half-assed stripped-down 3e that's basically an ashcan copy that exists to invalidate 4e and for no other real reason. Mostly agreed. The wider appeal definitely gets turned into cash, but yeah, a ton of it as apology for making a grognard’s edition. Which I loved.
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Jan 1, 2024 07:24
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I ride bikes all day posted:Mostly agreed. The wider appeal definitely gets turned into cash, but yeah, a ton of it as apology for making a grognard’s edition. Which I loved. I..... 4e was the exact opposite of a grognard's edition????????? Grogs hated 4e.
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Jan 1, 2024 07:44
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Kurieg posted:I..... 4e was the exact opposite of a grognard's edition????????? Grogs hated 4e. Yeah, just look at all the  The Alexandrian wasted on dumb made-up terms like 'disassociated mechanics.'
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Jan 1, 2024 14:37
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God I loved 4e. A 5e that iterated on it and dealt with the high level power bloat would have been amazing
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Jan 1, 2024 14:57
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4e was for people who love hotbars and cooldowns and complaining about mods. It was... interesting.
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Jan 1, 2024 16:44
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I thought 4th edition was the 20th anniversary releases which were essentially revised (3rd edition) consolidated?
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Jan 1, 2024 16:52
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excited to read about dnd 4th vs pathfinder today, in the world of darkness thread
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Jan 1, 2024 17:06
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nrook posted:excited to read about dnd 4th vs pathfinder today, in the world of darkness thread Part of why World of Darkness is dying, and Chronicles is dead.
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Jan 1, 2024 17:27
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Part of why World of Darkness is dying, and Chronicles is dead. Honestly WOD could do with a parthfinder equivalent. If nothing else than give us player some options.
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Jan 1, 2024 18:40
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But nWOD is already the Pathfinder to oWOD's DnD. Real talk, is there a real competitor to WoD in the RPG space as far as "urban fantasy where you are the monster" goes? I guess Monster Hearts is the biggest profile one that I am aware of.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:05
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ZearothK posted:But nWOD is already the Pathfinder to oWOD's DnD. There's Monte Cooke's (terrible) World of Darkness, which sort of counts?
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Jan 1, 2024 19:10
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ZearothK posted:But nWOD is already the Pathfinder to oWOD's DnD. I think Urban Shadows is closer to the mark than Monster hearts, but neither really does the same thing.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:14
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Monster Hearts, Urban Shadows come to mind. Someone did a PbtA hack for Vampire that was interesting.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:14
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ZearothK posted:I thought 4th edition was the 20th anniversary releases which were essentially revised (3rd edition) consolidated? I ride bikes and rainbowbeard are complaining about D&D Fourth edition. The WoD 20th anniversary books started out ascompilation books with some extras that got created once OPP realized there was a market for it that got retroactively turned into a '4th edition' when paradox bought the license in a way to further legitimize the new 5th editions. This also had a spoiling effect on Onyx Path's sales because the people paradox put in charge of things were way way worse than CCP's brand of benign neglect. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Jan 1, 2024 19:15
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ZearothK posted:But nWOD is already the Pathfinder to oWOD's DnD. Well there's no rule for multiple parthfinder is there. Well conting with the d&d compersion anyone got a pitch wod version of Eberron? I got something similar to it in my head. It's got magical trains and everything.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:18
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ZearothK posted:But nWOD is already the Pathfinder to oWOD's DnD. In terms of a legit competitor with a decent sized profile, I don't think so. Monster Hearts might be the closest and I feel like it's still significantly more niche. Aside from what other people mentioned you could easily play Monster of the Week as an "urban fantasy where you are the monster" game, there are enough monstrous playbooks. You'd have to intentionally limit the scope though, and make a few assumptions/reinterpretations that are non-obvious. City of Mist is also a) great and b) can absolutely be about playing monsters in urban fantasy settings. It even has a core mechanic about your character's supernatural side conflicting with their human side that could be a great stand in for a Vampire style Humanity thing. It's also pretty weird, has a strange and specific setting, and is broad enough that those mechanics can feel more "Spider-Man keeps missing classes" than "my cursed nature forces me to give up on my moral code" so again it's not a perfect fit. Either would be easy adaptations, IMO, but you'd have to have the whole group onboard. If you just threw either book in front of them without a discussion of tone and expectations you'd get something that isn't particularly close to WoD's intended playstyle.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:30
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Digital Osmosis posted:Either would be easy adaptations, IMO, but you'd have to have the whole group onboard. If you just threw either book in front of them without a discussion of tone and expectations you'd get something that isn't particularly close to WoD's intended playstyle. There's also the fact that WoD's equivalent to Pathfinder would have to also capture some amount of the goth cultural zeitgeist or it's just going to fall flat. As a huge fan of City of Mists' mechanics, the setting writing is flaccid at best and a lot of games are going to fall down at the same point. Making a cool goth monster setting with evocative writing is actually really hard, and it's a key part of any WoD-alike.
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Jan 1, 2024 20:01
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Now is Nightlife's time to shine
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Jan 1, 2024 20:06
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I still have to read that Katanas and Trenchcoats game I kickstarted. It's more a Highlander ripoff, but it's got vampires and ghosts and wizards.
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Jan 1, 2024 22:00
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Now is Nightlife's time to shine Somebody did an OSR-adjacent called Nightcrawlers that's basically Nightlife but not horrifically offensive. I'd recommend it.
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Jan 1, 2024 22:48
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Urban Shadows is the 'crossover supernatural politics' pbta game, as compared to Monsterhearts being the Twilight/VampireDiaries kind of game. I've seen a couple of other WoD-ish games pop up now and then but none stick in the memory. Unknown Armies is still kicking around but that's a much more humanistic take on being modern mages.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:11
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I kind of wonder whether people actually want "generic urban fantasy game with vampires and also wizards" or whether the World of Darkness's actual niche wasn't "large fantasy world with buckets of lore you can immerse yourself in". Because that niche would be a lot harder to fill.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:17
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Rand Brittain posted:I kind of wonder whether people actually want "generic urban fantasy game with vampires and also wizards" or whether the World of Darkness's actual niche wasn't "large fantasy world with buckets of lore you can immerse yourself in". Isn't there a PBTA for everyone being some kind of bizarre Blade hybrid of various splats?
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Jan 1, 2024 23:18
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Nessus posted:I think the imagination furniture of the games was a lot more of its selling/cultural appeal than its thematic focus, that is for sure. Not pbta but I assume you're talking about All Of Their Strengths.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:37
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bewilderment posted:Not pbta but I assume you're talking about All Of Their Strengths. So basically Wod only everyone in the party is Samuel Hyate
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Jan 2, 2024 08:30
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I guess the closest there is is using that Dresden Files in Fate system but that’s not exactly a healthy, bustling system full of content treadmills.
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Jan 2, 2024 09:50
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Rand Brittain posted:I kind of wonder whether people actually want "generic urban fantasy game with vampires and also wizards" or whether the World of Darkness's actual niche wasn't "large fantasy world with buckets of lore you can immerse yourself in". It's the lore. Generic urban fantasy is covered by a few systems now depending if you want pbta or osr or whatever, but I don't think anyone in that sphere is doing (or can do, probably given how the industry has changed) anything like what old white wolf did. I wonder if it would be possible to do something like the book of nod now.
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Jan 2, 2024 13:22
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We could make our own World of Darkness, with blackjack and hookers.
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Jan 2, 2024 16:16
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Part of why World of Darkness is dying, and Chronicles is dead. Ghost Armor 1337 posted:Honestly WOD could do with a parthfinder equivalent. If nothing else than give us player some options. I think WoD/CoD's world building is both an asset and a burden, here. The various politicking between supernatural factions is a very cool design space that has historically done tremendous work to distinguish its game lines from the various D&D-likes. But on the other hand, any given nerd is going to fundamentally understand a dungeon crawl or an adventure module as well as the kind of play that suggests. A human fighter is readily parsed as a game object, and even when you factor in the full complexity of 50+ races 100+ classes and 1000+ feats available at the height of "ivory tower game design," whichever Illumian Archivist Malkonvoker is still going to be playing the same game as any other character. _oD's assumptions instead mean that basic bread Vampire A and Werewolf B have different needs, are pursuing different goals, and likely have some level of antagonism toward each other. And that's cool and easily suggests a host of involved and engaging inter-party dynamics, but it involves an entirely separate and more complicated mode of play than "let's cooperate to steal a dragon's hoard." There's a lot more groundwork involved in just setting up the basic scenario. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jan 2, 2024 |
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Jan 2, 2024 16:31
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MonsieurChoc posted:We could make our own World of Darkness, with blackjack and hookers. Eh, Ericsson tried that. It did not work out well.
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Jan 2, 2024 19:56
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Dawgstar posted:Eh, Ericsson tried that. It did not work out well. Ah, but we're cool.
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Jan 2, 2024 21:17
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It's much easier to make "our own World of Darkness", that is, a WoD that works for us specifically, than it is to make a setting that's as many things to as many people as the real World of Darkness was. Bluntly, Paradox's WoD ruffled a lot of feathers because it was Martin Ericsson's World of Darkness specifically, and he didn't care about whether it worked for anybody else.
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Jan 3, 2024 00:02
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i mean there is an example of a successful, even improved "make our own world of darkness with blackjack and hookers": the nwod 
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Jan 3, 2024 00:06
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To be cheeky in the exact opposite direction, I'm not sure we're in position to crow that Ericsson's World of Darkness didn't work out that well, since it is ongoing. He himself got in trouble but the foundation his team built remains.
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Jan 3, 2024 00:49
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Rand Brittain posted:It's much easier to make "our own World of Darkness", that is, a WoD that works for us specifically, than it is to make a setting that's as many things to as many people as the real World of Darkness was. I mean based on viewership numbers and podcasts, WoD is currently as popular as it's ever been. The bulk of the WoD verse is on streaming platforms of various stripes now, there are a ton of VtM actual plays whose GMs literally make a living off their streams.
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Jan 3, 2024 05:07
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Which was not a thing when Chronicles was released. Same with d&d 5e vs 4e.
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Jan 3, 2024 13:42
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Soonmot posted:Which was not a thing when Chronicles was released. Same with d&d 5e vs 4e. Yea, TTRPGs in general are having a Renaissance and becoming extremely mainstream, finally. It's great.
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Jan 3, 2024 13:59
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