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Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019

ChrisBTY posted:

It can be a little awkward but she isn't gonna get crowded by melee chaff that's for drat sure.

Dash as one of her 2 Soldier powers avoids that problem entirely. Or just pack a shotty, or any sword+hand flamer/bolt pistol.

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Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

dash is very good for that, and also general mobility and positioning.

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?

You can tell this is a good game because the Standard Human Fighter companion is widely beloved by everyone.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

VanillaGorilla posted:

Well, I have joined the 10% of players who have made it past A3 (which I didn’t find nearly as bad as others - at least it had an actual story to tell), and folks weren’t kidding about A4 being shaky. Even in its relatively more polished state I started getting a bunch of minor bugs and cutscene issues (including events getting mixed up and overlapping, menu bugs, etc.)

I succeeded in breaking the combat over my knee back in A2 with the usual officer/arch-militant hijinks (I made my RT a copy of Argenta, so between those two and Cassia, no xenos scum or heretic stands a chance). I’ve kind of just lapsed into resolving encounters with Toybox, though, as the combat gets pretty samey toward the end of the game.

I want to see how it ends up but I think I’m going to come out of this with the same basic overall review - this feels like a good first draft of what an excellent 40K RPG can be, but I’m kind of more interested in what the next, more refined, game in the line is going to look like (if Owlcat gets to make one).

Also Ulfar is really disappointing. I get that putting an Astartes in this game is kind of a challenge but I don’t really think they hit it, here.

Combat changes are supposed to be the next big upgrade. I would hope its a mix of balances to those T1 wipe exploits and reduction to the enemy HP inflation.

I don't know if they can fix Ulfar without some major work. He's built like a 50/50 mix of melee and ranged which is really sub-optimal in this game. Plus he comes loaded with so many useless talents (second skin? the medium armor buff?) it reads more like making a lore accurate character in spite of the game design expectation.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Pwnstar posted:

You can tell this is a good game because the Standard Human Fighter companion is widely beloved by everyone.

Abelard was my Act 1 MVP, I could never bring myself to bench him for the rest of the game after he basically soloed the Act 1 boss that everyone in the party was making GBS threads their pants over in dialogue.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

VanillaGorilla posted:

Also Ulfar is really disappointing. I get that putting an Astartes in this game is kind of a challenge but I don’t really think they hit it, here.

Yeah. The space marine shouldn’t feel weaker than the Sister of Battle in standard combat, but he does. I’d rather he taken up two character slots and been completely broken.

Pwnstar posted:

You can tell this is a good game because the Standard Human Fighter companion is widely beloved by everyone.

I’m kind of dreading my Heretic playthrough because I don’t want Abelard to hate me.

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jan 1, 2024

Hidingo Kojimba
Mar 29, 2010

VanillaGorilla posted:

I want to see how it ends up but I think I’m going to come out of this with the same basic overall review - this feels like a good first draft of what an excellent 40K RPG can be, but I’m kind of more interested in what the next, more refined, game in the line is going to look like (if Owlcat gets to make one).

Yeah, now that I've cleared Act 3 I'm going to take a break from the game for a couple of patches till they get Act 4 more stable and figure out what they want to do with Convictions. However I will definitely go back to it.

I hope Owlcat get a chance to make a more polished sequel. Maybe an Inquisitor/Dark heresy game in the Calixis sector?

VanillaGorilla
Oct 2, 2003

It is kind of wild how stuff is breaking in A4. Like menus and pop-up messages that have been fine all game are now....not working right?

The ruinous powers have indeed invaded the holy chips of my RAM or something!

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

Hidingo Kojimba posted:

I hope Owlcat get a chance to make a more polished sequel. Maybe an Inquisitor/Dark heresy Black Crusade game in the Calixis sector?

FTFY

Having seen how they differentiated Lich, Demon and Trickster in Wrath, I really want to see their take on unique Chaos God paths.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

I'm at the point where I've explored the whole warp route network that's available. What connections should I make with points?

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Arglebargle III posted:

I'm at the point where I've explored the whole warp route network that's available. What connections should I make with points?

make green connections between dargonus and your other colonies and you're pretty much gtg

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



How thorough is respecing/generally possible is it to gently caress up a build? I want to make a Noble Officer and have focused on Fellowship/Willpower at creation but there are a lot of factors going on, and don’t want to start off on the wrong foot with a crummy character. First time playing an Owlcat game

This is what started with:



I'm okay if it isn't completely 100% optimal, just want to know if it's viable

Frog Act fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jan 1, 2024

bobtheconqueror
May 10, 2005

VanillaGorilla posted:

It is kind of wild how stuff is breaking in A4. Like menus and pop-up messages that have been fine all game are now....not working right?

The ruinous powers have indeed invaded the holy chips of my RAM or something!

It's pretty bad. One of the issues throughout the game is rumors not clearing on completion, and that comes to a head in Act 4 with a rumor to chase down a big pirate ship. It's the one time in the whole game where a rumor's area actually shows up on the Expanse map, but then it never goes away, so you've just got these question mark green zones there forever even after doing all the space battles. I also just didn't get a reward for completing the space battles at all.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

I have gotten the Dodged 500 times achievement once per character per session

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Frog Act posted:

How thorough is respecing/generally possible is it to gently caress up a build? I want to make a Noble Officer and have focused on Fellowship/Willpower at creation but there are a lot of factors going on, and don’t want to start off on the wrong foot with a crummy character. First time playing an Owlcat game

This is what started with:



I'm okay if it isn't completely 100% optimal, just want to know if it's viable

it's pretty hard to brick an officer build. your officer basically needs a lot of fellowship to power up voice of command, bring it down, finest hour and air of authority, all but the last of which are innate starting abilities.

edit: also didn't have all these issues with act 4. there were some bugs like uncompleted rumors and the pirate ship and whatnot but it all seemed fairly cosmetic, I only had to force complete a couple of companion quests and teleport to ulfars quest area in act 5.

Zodium fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 1, 2024

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Zodium posted:

it's pretty hard to brick an officer build. your officer basically needs a lot of fellowship to power up voice of command, bring it down, finest hour and air of authority, all but the last of which are innate starting abilities.

Cool! I'm gonna go ahead and play the game then I just didn't want to gently caress up character creation so much I'd end up having a Bad Time

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019

Pwnstar posted:

You can tell this is a good game because the Standard Human Fighter companion is widely beloved by everyone.

How dare you call My Boy standard ?! Powerswords at dawn, sir.

Frog Act posted:

How thorough is respecing/generally possible is it to gently caress up a build? I want to make a Noble Officer and have focused on Fellowship/Willpower at creation but there are a lot of factors going on, and don’t want to start off on the wrong foot with a crummy character. First time playing an Owlcat game

This is what started with:



I'm okay if it isn't completely 100% optimal, just want to know if it's viable

It's viable. The game is not hard. You can respec a handful of times for free.
Be advised, however, that 40 and 45 in a stat is the same (except WS/BS/Agi where the % matters). You only get stat bonuses for multiples of 10.

Also Willpower is more or less useless on anybody who isn't a Psyker - it does affect resistance to psyker powers, but big H Heh.

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

there are a lot of out of combat wp checks that will use your mc rather than highest character so it's not a bad secondary stat, and basically every stat besides fellowship is a dump stat anyway. agility is good for initiative too, I think I picked that for my starting boost since you can't increase it by leveling as an officer.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Thanks! I got the impression it was useful for social things or something but I’ll probably drop it back down when I get a chance to respec. The game not being hard sounds good to me, my favorite CRPGs are NWNs expansion packs and they’re not difficult at all

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

yep. just remember owlcat wants you to hyperspecialize characters to the point of absurdity and you'll breeze through most content.

VanillaGorilla
Oct 2, 2003

lol I have no idea what kind of brain genius designed Jae’s quest in A4 but a stealth mission in a point and click CRPG was a laughably bad idea

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Zodium posted:

yep. just remember owlcat wants you to hyperspecialize characters to the point of absurdity and you'll breeze through most content.

Pasqal gets unique benefits from plasma weapons, so those talents are extremely useful for him. There's a 'hidden' plasma rifle near the end of act one so check for loot on the map if you don't see it.

Idira can be built so her screams do hundreds of damage in an AOE via a mixture of talents and equipment that boost psy rating from warp perils.

Cassia is pretty much the objectively best companion, you take almost exclusively Navigator talents and abilities for her and she's an incredible force multiplier.

Argenta starts slow using regular bolters taking talents to improve burst attacking, then as an Arch Militant stacks versatility to an absurd point with a heavy bolter+literally anything else.

Abelard is set up to work as the best tank in the game, to a point where the Space Marine companion has the durability of tissue paper compared to him.

Yrielt is high single target damage, and you use the Officer heroic moment to use Killing Edge 4-5 times for huge damage.

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

pentyne posted:

Combat changes are supposed to be the next big upgrade. I would hope its a mix of balances to those T1 wipe exploits and reduction to the enemy HP inflation.

I don't know if they can fix Ulfar without some major work. He's built like a 50/50 mix of melee and ranged which is really sub-optimal in this game. Plus he comes loaded with so many useless talents (second skin? the medium armor buff?) it reads more like making a lore accurate character in spite of the game design expectation.

The biggest killer is his lack of items, and how his items are mostly fenced off. Arch militants can absolutely wreck poo poo by switching melee/ranged, it's just heavy bolters/stubbers over shadow everything else at the moment.

Still mad he can't have a pistol in one hand and a thunder hammer in the other, or double fun sized thunder hammers. Let me play golf with my enemies.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



The first leveling up experience as an officer feels so ??? with no knowledge of mechanics. All the options are 10 skill points in skills I’ve never used before and thus have no idea how useful they actually are. I went with Lore Imperium because it makes sense for a noble officer but given that I miss most shots in combat it’d have been nice for that to be an option

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status: Ravenously Rambunctious

Frog Act posted:

The first leveling up experience as an officer feels so ??? with no knowledge of mechanics. All the options are 10 skill points in skills I’ve never used before and thus have no idea how useful they actually are. I went with Lore Imperium because it makes sense for a noble officer but given that I miss most shots in combat it’d have been nice for that to be an option

The level up experience for everyone is kinda nuts in how confusing it is, but its fine to focus on whatever skill you think is useful or interesting, it probably will be (unless its like, Commerce, which I've extremely rarely ran into).

Magni
Apr 29, 2009

Frog Act posted:

The first leveling up experience as an officer feels so ??? with no knowledge of mechanics. All the options are 10 skill points in skills I’ve never used before and thus have no idea how useful they actually are. I went with Lore Imperium because it makes sense for a noble officer but given that I miss most shots in combat it’d have been nice for that to be an option

Skills are all non-combat stuff, and you want to specialize in one or two and have all of them spread out across your party for the most part. About the one thing you may wanna do there is pick up a single advance in Medicae, because that lets your character use medkits.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Thanks! I guess I’ll make Abelard my Medicae guy and keep focusing on persuasion/lore imperium/other things that seem appropriate. It also seems that sometimes there are no choices, just a new ability?

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005
Abelards probably best doing athletics and maybe just a touch of medicae or carouse although I feel like that's come up the least, just a couple checks on resisting alcohol or poison or whatever.

Yeah sometimes you don't get a choice, it gives you your heroic ability at level 4 for example.

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

The end credits should really come with an undergraduates degree in rogue trading after navigating all those level ups.

pentyne posted:

Abelard is set up to work as the best tank in the game, to a point where the Space Marine companion has the durability of tissue paper compared to him.

Ulfar needs cautious stance and some officer extra turn investment if you want him to tank, but once you get him going he can tank and murder with the best of them, or switch between full murder and full tanking depending on what you need. I played vanguard Abe which colours my opinion of him, but I found deflection/armour tanking dropped off late game, and I wasn't even playing on the hardest difficulties. Or the really good items arrived too late to really use them.

E: like that judge dredd heavy armour that gave a massive bonus to armour if you have high coercion. I can't remember but there was some item that gave armour based on lore imperium, so Jae of all people had a huge armour rating for me.

This is moot anyhow as Cassia is the secret best tank. :v:

Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 1, 2024

Buschmaki
Dec 26, 2012

‿︵‿︵‿︵‿Lean Addict︵‿︵‿︵‿
Why does the ship not face the way it's.projected to in combat anymore

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010

Frog Act posted:

Thanks! I guess I’ll make Abelard my Medicae guy and keep focusing on persuasion/lore imperium/other things that seem appropriate. It also seems that sometimes there are no choices, just a new ability?

There are very few baked-in upgrades you get no matter what (y being given your Heroic Act or choosing it's upgrade).
But for most levels, you do up to two of the following:
-Raise a characteristic (which one you raise depends on class/origin and what you picked before)
-Raise a skill (same as above)
-Pick a common(available to everyone), homeworld or origin talent
-Pick an Archetype talent or one of the above talents
-Pick an ability

That applies to most characters with one big note:
Psykers and unique origins can pick talents from the common/origin pool (make sense since it's not an archetype). So you could advance your psyker talents very fast by picking them when you have to pick common talents but also the archetype talents.

For Officer, Fellowship comes first. You usually pick Agility for initiative/doge and something like Ballistic skill so you shoot from range(melee officers are possible, but it does not seem to be what you aim for).
For skills, Persuasion and Coercion are good to specialize in.

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status: Ravenously Rambunctious

Frog Act posted:

Thanks! I guess I’ll make Abelard my Medicae guy and keep focusing on persuasion/lore imperium/other things that seem appropriate. It also seems that sometimes there are no choices, just a new ability?

For the first few levels they don't let you do a lotta choices, but it opens up to become like, 20-30 or even more at some point.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Much appreciated. I just hit level 4 and I'm thinking the Voice of Command thing is the obvious choice. I see that it has a little green thumbs up. Does that just imply that it is a mechanically optimal choice? Google isn't helping with that one

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status: Ravenously Rambunctious

Frog Act posted:

Much appreciated. I just hit level 4 and I'm thinking the Voice of Command thing is the obvious choice. I see that it has a little green thumbs up. Does that just imply that it is a mechanically optimal choice? Google isn't helping with that one

It's supposed to be but sometimes it really isn't. Owlcat either didn't test if this was entirely the case, things changed during development or they're straight up lying to you.

Janissary Hop
Sep 2, 2012

dogmatic rogue trader learning new xeno languages just to tell xenos they're filthy aberrations that won't be spoken with

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010

Am I getting screwed by RNG or something because I'm just about to do Kiava Gamma and I've only gotten the drat Imperial Navy vendor halfway to the first rank? The rate I get void trophies feels incredibly anemic compared to everything else so I've only gotten a few upgrades dropped from fights.

Is this normal or is there something I'm missing here?

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Respec is for companions too right? So I’m not being a gigantic dumbass and ruining things for them from the get go too?

Mechanical confusion aside I’m a big 40k nerd but drifted away from the hobby as it got worse ideologically and otherwise and this is the first game since mechanicus that feels as if the writers actually thought about the setting and read the older materials instead of being a weird self-cosplay unalloyed by self awareness or satire. It reminds me of the Warhammer Monthly comics of old, my absolute favorite WH media, the sort of combination of self awareness and serious treatment of the world as one that deserves to be made coherent most contemporary stuff fails to manifest

VanillaGorilla
Oct 2, 2003

Nephthys posted:

Am I getting screwed by RNG or something because I'm just about to do Kiava Gamma and I've only gotten the drat Imperial Navy vendor halfway to the first rank? The rate I get void trophies feels incredibly anemic compared to everything else so I've only gotten a few upgrades dropped from fights.

Is this normal or is there something I'm missing here?

Rep and alignment are both incredible slow (brokenly so). It’s gotten better over the last patch but it’s still pretty busted in late game. Probably just resign yourself to toyboxing it for now.

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Nephthys posted:

Am I getting screwed by RNG or something because I'm just about to do Kiava Gamma and I've only gotten the drat Imperial Navy vendor halfway to the first rank? The rate I get void trophies feels incredibly anemic compared to everything else so I've only gotten a few upgrades dropped from fights.

Is this normal or is there something I'm missing here?

Check your inventory, void trophies might not go to cargo automatically. I can't recall if they fixed that bug or they just said they fixed that bug, or they did fix it then it has unfixed itself who knows with this game.

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Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Frog Act posted:

Respec is for companions too right? So I’m not being a gigantic dumbass and ruining things for them from the get go too?

Mechanical confusion aside I’m a big 40k nerd but drifted away from the hobby as it got worse ideologically and otherwise and this is the first game since mechanicus that feels as if the writers actually thought about the setting and read the older materials instead of being a weird self-cosplay unalloyed by self awareness or satire. It reminds me of the Warhammer Monthly comics of old, my absolute favorite WH media, the sort of combination of self awareness and serious treatment of the world as one that deserves to be made coherent most contemporary stuff fails to manifest
My loose impression is that Games Workshop had some turnover and the current bosses looked at the numbers and then looked at things online, did some :commisar: action internally, and have in general been skewing towards making the setting more accessible for everyone who wishes sci-fantasy adventure and tabletop miniature ownership in the Grim Darkness of the 40th Milllenium.

They're still selling all of their old novels and poo poo but their newer ones are often better. I actually looked up one featuring Navigators but it seems to be out of print, or else they really do just charge you $52 US for a novel now :v:

How does one access or install Toybox? I am getting enough FOMO regarding guns and respecs that I wish to know this lore.

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