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Count Roland posted:But by this same token the US doesn't want a "stable" (read: mostly friendly) country like Egypt to start buying their weapons from Russia instead of American companies. A little late for that.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:23
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This is dark even given the current bloody war but: what if Israel drove the population of Gaza into Syria?
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Jan 1, 2024 23:26
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lightpole posted:Even Isreal shouldn't have an interest due to the dangers of unstable neighbors. I'm not sure that the current Israeli government is purely practical and calculative.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:29
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Count Roland posted:This is dark even given the current bloody war but: what if Israel drove the population of Gaza into Syria? What kind of hosed up "what if" scenarios you are talking about. No peoples should be driven off to anywhere. Its genocide, period.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:40
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Count Roland posted:This is dark even given the current bloody war but: what if Israel drove the population of Gaza into Syria? They have to haul them up the entire length of Israel to do that.
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Jan 1, 2024 23:41
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mlmp08 posted:Israel's Minister of National Security has a proposal. gently caress me sideways, someone explain to me why this isn't The Final Solution To The Problem Of Gazans Count Roland posted:This is dark even given the current bloody war but: what if Israel drove the population of Gaza into Syria? Wrong end of the country. Check a map real quick - Gaza borders Egypt, which is why there's been a few posts itt about Egyptian policy preference on immigration and Gaza. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Jan 1, 2024 23:47
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Count Roland posted:If somehow Egypt was sufficiently bribed maybe it could set up a sort of neighbouring enclave on their side of the border, still adjacent to Israel. Call it a temporary humanitarian camp. Don't use the word refugee. Use the Israeli strategy of blockade to prevent the Gazans from integrating into Egyptian society. Make UNRWA responsible for for the camp, so the Egyptian state doesn't need to worry about feeding everyone. Hand-wave about their being a plan to re-integrate Palestinians into Gaza after Hamas is flushed out or something. This still seems far-fetched but may be possible. This is literally what the Gaza Strip is. Egyptian territory set aside for Palestinian expelled from Israeli-controlled territory. Then Israel took control of Gaza, too.
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Jan 2, 2024 00:02
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Count Roland posted:This is dark even given the current bloody war but: what if Israel drove the population of Gaza into Syria? How about you don't do this and you get to keep posting?
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Jan 2, 2024 00:05
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Godholio posted:This is literally what the Gaza Strip is. Egyptian territory set aside for Palestinian expelled from Israeli-controlled territory. Then Israel took control of Gaza, too. Can you link to this? Just the other day I was trying to figure out how Gaza's exact borders were determined. I failed. I'd like to know more about it. McNally posted:How about you don't do this and you get to keep posting? Uh, ok. Was this part just too dark? What about my other recent posts in this thread?
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Jan 2, 2024 00:12
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Count Roland posted:Uh, ok. Was this part just too dark? What about my other recent posts in this thread? Yeah, this one felt a little too "how can this genocide get genocidier?"
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Jan 2, 2024 00:19
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McNally posted:Yeah, this one felt a little too "how can this genocide get genocidier?" Ok fair enough, I'll gently caress off on that one.
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Jan 2, 2024 00:30
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Count Roland posted:Can you link to this? Just the other day I was trying to figure out how Gaza's exact borders were determined. I failed. I'd like to know more about it. If you're catching up this much, just start here for a background, then go on further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip For more recent events, this has some major highlights of the last 30-ish years. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/world/israel/64132/all-that-remains
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Jan 2, 2024 00:56
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mlmp08 posted:If you're catching up this much, just start here for a background, then go on further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip Nah wasn't looking for highlights, was wondering if anyone knew about the specific borders before I took the time to go deeper. Anyway, I did just dig it up now. Apparently its called the Green Line. It comes from the armistice agreements signed by Israel and the Arab states in '49, after the war. The line is a demarcation line, never intended to be a border, but there you go. A larger territory around Gaza was proposed as part of the partition plan of '47 but never materialized.
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Jan 2, 2024 01:28
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Count Roland posted:Nah wasn't looking for highlights, was wondering if anyone knew about the specific borders before I took the time to go deeper. The answer is "yes," but it was faster to just link you to the wikipedia article, since you were asking for sources to be linked to you. But glad you were able to dig up this information on your own. The relevant part of what Godholio was talking about regarding Israel seizing control of the gaza strip occurred well after 1949.
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Jan 2, 2024 02:16
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Looks like Israel just did a drone strike in southern Beirut. https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-beirut-explosion-suburbs-hezbollah-israel-2a43fe948e8cb49c64b34bb963d77f64 quote:BEIRUT (AP) — The TV station of Lebanon’s Hezbollah group says top Hamas official Saleh Arouri was killed Tuesday in an explosion in a southern Beirut suburb. Other articles say the blast occurred in Dahiyeh, which is Hezbollah's main stronghold in Beirut. This definitely marks an escalation as Israel hasn't hit Beirut since the 2006 war.
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Jan 2, 2024 17:49
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Where else are there Hamas leaders? UAE I believe has some. Israel can't exactly drone strike those but assassinations are always possible. Palestinian leaders of some variety were in Syria before the civil war but left when it really kicked off. I'm not sure if any have returned since the fitting died down. Iran? Turkey? E: I conflated Qatar with UAE. The UAE would not tolerate a group like Hamas on its territory Count Roland fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 2, 2024 |
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Jan 2, 2024 18:09
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Count Roland posted:Where else are there Hamas leaders? Qatar, Tunisia, Algeria all come to mind. I think Qatar was planning on kicking out the Hamas figures who have been in Doha because they don't want assassinations happening in their country. Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas' former political leader who was exiled to Damascus, found himself PNG'd after he publicly sided with the Syrian rebels against Bashar al-Assad. Not sure if Hamas' current pro-Iran leadership has a presence there again.
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Jan 2, 2024 18:14
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Qatar openly supports and funds Hamas (and Gaza)(and for people who don't even know where the Gaza strip and West Bank are, also with permission from Israel), and Hamas leadership in Qatar is not exactly in hiding.
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Jan 2, 2024 20:54
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https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1742210055854789040 I guess when you've defended Jeffrey Epstein, defending Israel in the ICC is just the next logical rung in the Ladder of Tarnished Legacies.
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Jan 3, 2024 00:29
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ShotTimes of Israel posted:Israel in talks with Congo and other countries on Gaza ‘voluntary migration’ plan Chaser The Biden administration posted:The United States rejects recent statements from Israeli Ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben Gvir advocating for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza. This rhetoric is inflammatory and irresponsible. We have been told repeatedly and consistently by the Government of Israel, including by the Prime Minister, that such statements do not reflect the policy of the Israeli government. They should stop immediately. I appreciate that the administration has at least voiced pushback, but it means gently caress all if not followed up with action.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:03
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Oh wow, Israel is doing exactly what everyone said they were gonna do, because they've been doing it for decades (ethnically cleansing Palestinians). What a shock and surprise. I'm sure Biden is strongly considering writing a weak tea letter asking "maybe please don't do that but you know only if you wanna (new guns and bombs are still coming though)."
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Jan 3, 2024 19:25
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Cugel the Clever posted:Shot The loving Madagascar plan?! 
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Jan 3, 2024 20:31
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Cugel the Clever posted:Shot Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel's National Security Minister and a major member of the country's far right, tweeted this yesterday: https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1742291293307310186?t=YiV79H6JEUz0-k9oURIMFw&s=19 Translation: quote:Really appreciate the United States of America but with all due respect we are not another star on the American flag. The United States is our best friend, but first of all we will do what is best for the State of Israel: the migration of hundreds of thousands from Gaza will allow the residents of the enclave to return home and live in security and protect the IDF soldiers. So yeah, forced transfer and annexation sure does seem to be on the menu.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:32
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:The loving Madagascar plan?! Nonono, it's not Madagascar, so it's fine.
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Jan 3, 2024 22:43
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:The loving Madagascar plan?! quote:On Tuesday, Intelligence Minister Gila Gamliel told Zman that “voluntary migration is the best and most realistic program for the day after the fighting ends.” NOT ETHNIC CLEANSING DON'T CALL IT ETHNIC CLEANSING YOU ANTISEMITES
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Jan 3, 2024 23:02
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To loving Congo of all places, man
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Jan 3, 2024 23:25
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Never Again(to us)
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Jan 3, 2024 23:39
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TaurusTorus posted:Never Again(to us)
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Jan 3, 2024 23:56
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pantslesswithwolves posted:Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel's National Security Minister and a major member of the country's far right, tweeted this yesterday: Wow they're really daring the US to do something about it.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:04
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Count Roland posted:To loving Congo of all places, man "I learned it all from you, Dad"- Israel
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Jan 4, 2024 00:52
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I was just telling my gf about that. The Madagascar Plan I hadn't heard of, which is unfortunately a better comparison right now.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:57
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TaurusTorus posted:Never Again(to us) There's a subset of people who think "Never Again" to mean that never again shall Jews be complict in the persecution of other Jews (Judenrat, Jewish Ghetto Police, etc.) Which, ok. That whole thing was tragedy after tragedy. A misery upon misery. Now the very state that was supposed to ensure that wouldn't happen is causing, directly or indirectly, a rise in, and reinforcement of, anti-Semitism. While I don't think Israel will be as much of a pariah state as it has been anytime soon over the current genocide of Palestinians, I do think things will get more difficult for Israeli Jews as a whole. This conflict is already creating a certain disconnect between Israel and the world at large. What happens next will definitely effect younger Israelis as they grow up. As an American who was a teenager on 9/11... I know, I know. I think America is the world. Hear me out, please. ...I have seen how this kind of thing warps reality within a country. The fear and hatred may fade, but what they cause (war, destruction, other inhumane acts and feelings) could increasingly feel justified and become internalized. Then what? Questions? Answers? Reflection? Bitterness? Change for the better? For who? I can't think of very many good things to come from revenge. Maybe I'm preaching to the choir; to so many here who waged war after 9/11, some as teenagers when I was one, and some well into adulthood. Maybe I'm talking out my rear end. I was going somewhere with this, I swear.
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Jan 4, 2024 02:13
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That post wasn't meant to minimize the suffering of Palestinians or go "boo-hoo, poor IDF". Just an observation about what this insanity can do to folks.
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Jan 4, 2024 02:16
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One, I empathize very strongly with your post in every way outside being a lifelong civilian myself  Two, madeintaipei posted:Then what? Questions? Answers? Reflection? Bitterness? Change for the better? For who? I can't think of very many good things to come from revenge. Pessimistically, I really don't think populations ask questions like this, regardless of how important they are for self growth / correction / improvement after severe mistakes at an individual level. We watch or do or enable the Bad Thing, then we cry about it a little bit, then tell ourselves a tidy narrative that the process was transformative and we're better for it and we move onward to writing other little self-flattering narratives about our people. We don't linger, we aren't called by a higher power or greater force to actually simmer and change ourselves. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 03:01
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Potato Salad posted:One, I empathize very strongly with your post in every way outside being a lifelong civilian myself I can see that. Opa was a Waffen SS man who deserted after the Battle of Berlin. Oma was heavily involved in the BDM. Kids, then. 16-17 years old. A totally normal upbringing for their kids. Those years of war were never mentioned. Not a word. Opa was run over by a drunken cousin of his driving a VW Beetle while walking back from the wake of another relative with his son (my dad). Oma died of an aneurysm in 2005. Broke her skull on the way down, but was already dead according to the ME. They were good people. Took care of what they could. Didn't contradict their daughter during the 1968 student movement. Didn't chide my dad later when he protested against the nuke plants (six months before he spent a year and a half in the Heer). What happened around their village after the Nazis took power only comes out when my dad sees old folks attending funerals or cleaning grave stones at the church. Sometimes it's their children who share what they heard. The memories, good or bad, are almost totally faded and forgotten.
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Jan 4, 2024 03:55
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Count Roland posted:To loving Congo of all places, man OH SO YOU CARE A LOT ABOUT GENOCIDE WHY ARE YOU ONLY POSTING ABOUT GAZA AND NOT THE CONGO, HUH? hey speaking of the congo, I hear it's a nice place this time of year mrmcd posted:I'm sure Biden is strongly considering writing a weak tea letter asking "maybe please don't do that but you know only if you wanna (new guns and bombs are still coming though)." Netanyahu was literally filmed bragging about how he played Clinton by going along with the peace process in bad faith. It should be no secret that he will happily lie to POTUS's face because he knows the money, guns, and UNSC vetos will keep coming. Either the Biden admin is just playing the game too or they're spectacularly, intergalactically stupid.
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Jan 4, 2024 06:09
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Discussion Quorum posted:OH SO YOU CARE A LOT ABOUT GENOCIDE WHY ARE YOU ONLY POSTING ABOUT GAZA AND NOT THE CONGO, HUH? I know you're being facetious but a few pages back I actually did write a paragraph about how Congo (and Sudan) are also awful bloody genocidal conflicts and should be spoken of in the same breath as Israel/Gaza. I imagine the Israeli ministers were talking about Republic of Congo, which is smaller and more peaceful than DR Congo. But at this point who knows.
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Jan 4, 2024 14:20
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News: 3 or 4 Hezbollah fighters in southern Lebanon are killed by Israeli airstrikes. This comes after Hamas official killed in Beirut. The pressure on Hezbollah to respond more strongly increases. https://www.voanews.com/a/hezbollah-says-three-of-its-fighters-killed-in-southern-lebanon-/7420643.html Iran revises down death toll from bombing to 84, with hundreds wounded. Vows a harsh response, has not pointed fingers yet. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67872281
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Jan 4, 2024 14:26
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Count Roland posted:I know you're being facetious but a few pages back I actually did write a paragraph about how Congo (and Sudan) are also awful bloody genocidal conflicts and should be spoken of in the same breath as Israel/Gaza. I get it. There are two sides to this coin. Gaza is absolutely not the only deliberately perpetrated horror going on in the world, and that deserves attention. However the pro-IDF crew online like to turn this around and play the game of "well I don't see any tweets about Congo or Myanmar on your feed, clearly your problem isn't with genocide, you're just an antisemite!"
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Jan 4, 2024 16:06
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Discussion Quorum posted:I get it. There are two sides to this coin. Gaza is absolutely not the only deliberately perpetrated horror going on in the world, and that deserves attention. I know, it's dumb and annoying. It's actually fine to care about since things more than others. Humans paying exactly equal attention and sympathy to everyone is about the opposite of how we actually work.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:24
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