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atelier morgan posted:asteroid mining is only a thing if you have enough poo poo already out of the gravity well that it there's value in getting water, carbon, silicates and iron without having to launch it what if my plan is to use the asteroid to damage the planet so that when the lifestream tries to heal the wound i can absorb it and become god?
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Jan 3, 2024 07:54
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atelier morgan posted:asteroid mining is only a thing if you have enough poo poo already out of the gravity well that it there's value in getting water, carbon, silicates and iron without having to launch it Asteroid mining makes sense if you aren't on a planet in the first place. Presumably living in some kind of O'Neil cylinder, Bernal sphere or whatever. Now imagine exactly that but run by BAE Systems or Lockheed Martin with maximum grift. Company space town! Then everyone dies when a $2 widget breaks.
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Jan 3, 2024 08:02
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atelier morgan posted:asteroid mining is only a thing if you have enough poo poo already out of the gravity well that it there's value in getting water, carbon, silicates and iron without having to launch it This is true but on the other hand like half of the US's GDP at this point is spreadsheet handjobs so I dunno man maybe we should blow a trillion dollars on wrangling some space rocks
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Jan 3, 2024 08:04
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DancingShade posted:Just go back to making everything out of wood. We can plant more tree farms. [nods affirmatively in Alpha Centauri]
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Jan 3, 2024 09:06
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Pomeroy posted:[nods affirmatively in Alpha Centauri] Planet's atmosphere, though a gasping death to humans and most animals, is paradise for Earth plants. The high nitrate content of the soil and the rich yellow sunlight bring an abundant harvest wherever adjustments can be made for the unusual soil conditions.
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Jan 3, 2024 09:14
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Danann posted:https://twitter.com/orikron/status/1742255031200477494 And you have to fill them out in an office building after a two hour commute in a brodozer because the building is worth much more than you. Good system.
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Jan 3, 2024 09:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:Planet's atmosphere, though a gasping death to humans and most animals, is paradise for Earth plants. The high nitrate content of the soil and the rich yellow sunlight bring an abundant harvest wherever adjustments can be made for the unusual soil conditions. 420 plant trees everyday on every tile
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Jan 3, 2024 09:51
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The Oldest Man posted:This is true but on the other hand like half of the US's GDP at this point is spreadsheet handjobs so I dunno man maybe we should blow a trillion dollars on wrangling some space rocks peter diamandis tried and it was such a flop a loving blockchain company ended up buying out the company to sell off the desks and fire everybody
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Jan 3, 2024 11:05
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DancingShade posted:Just go back to making everything out of wood. We can plant more tree farms. Not sure if you're joking but this is 100% correct. I asked a civil engineer about this and he said the economics works out differently and construction workers will have to be trained, but that in the vast majority of cases wood is a totally viable and oftentimes better long term replacement material in construction.
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Jan 3, 2024 14:39
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excited for lumber brutalism
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Jan 3, 2024 15:23
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Votskomit posted:Not sure if you're joking but this is 100% correct. It probably make economic sense for countries like the US that still has a lot of wood and has space to build houses; not make sense to countries that have turn most of the forest into farm lands. You can also make all furnitures out of solid wood but Ikea choose to make furnitures out of paper like wood scrap filling material because they are slightly cheaper, lighter and can be make standardized. They are also more disposable so people buy furniture more frequently.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:04
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Votskomit posted:Not sure if you're joking but this is 100% correct. you will eat the bugs you will take a public transportation to your log cabin office you will sit in a wooden chair at your pine cubicle you will pulp paper spreadsheets by hand and you will like it
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Jan 3, 2024 16:09
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lumber construction is not as good as reinforced concrete blocks for earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes. plus it's hard to make a durable wood structure that's tall. though concrete is also not ideal for that because of the weight. obviously the best solution for non-seismic areas is an inverted tower/"tall bunker" with reinforced concrete walls. saves on heating/cooling, supported by soil. big time fire risk though. imagine you're a 9/11 victim but you have to run up a hundred flights of stairs from the fuckin mines of moria and also everything is on fire. hmm
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Jan 3, 2024 16:15
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Owlbear Camus posted:you will eat the bugs the editor of low tech magazine has an erection and he doesn't know why
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Jan 3, 2024 16:17
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Hatebag posted:lumber construction is not as good as reinforced concrete blocks for earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes. plus it's hard to make a durable wood structure that's tall. though concrete is also not ideal for that because of the weight. how does a plane hit the building if it's underground anyway??? Seems fine.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:24
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pft, mole planes! duh!
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Jan 3, 2024 16:25
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Hatebag posted:lumber construction is not as good as reinforced concrete blocks for earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes. plus it's hard to make a durable wood structure that's tall. though concrete is also not ideal for that because of the weight. Dig a big hole in the ground? Don't you need to deal with underground water table issues?
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Jan 3, 2024 16:27
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Jet fuel can't melt mahogany
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Jan 3, 2024 16:29
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yep, you need to consider the force imparted by groundwater moving up and against the structure. gravel and piles (columns driven into the ground) are typically how that is done. you can also use sump pumps, channelize the flow, or hell you could even have a porous section of a wall and make a mud river flow through the building. there's all kinds of solutions! these kinda structures already exist as well. underground military bases, stormwater pumping stations, etc. it's not exactly a novel idea to make those things but people don't generally live in them because people like seeing the sun and breathing fresh air
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Jan 3, 2024 16:33
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Hatebag posted:pft, mole planes! duh!  Surely at some point the army has thought about building something like that right?
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Jan 3, 2024 16:33
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stephenthinkpad posted:Dig a big hole in the ground? Don't you need to deal with underground water table issues? you do, but the construction of deep underground military bases has yielded many new techniques for coping with it
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Jan 3, 2024 16:36
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Hatebag posted:yep, you need to consider the force imparted by groundwater moving up and against the structure. gravel and piles (columns driven into the ground) are typically how that is done. you can also use sump pumps, channelize the flow, or hell you could even have a porous section of a wall and make a mud river flow through the building. there's all kinds of solutions! I feel like the gains in heating/cooling efficiency are marginal vs the cost in building a deep-rear end bunker especially if you build to passivhaus/LEED standards, it's not like we are out of building space necessitating building downwards considering so much urban land use is bullshit parking lots It does make me think about stuff that DOESN'T necessarily need to see light, I swear I remember going to an underground Target in Raleigh once and I could see sticking big retail underground being interesting for urban development. A 4-over-negative-1 so to speak. Example, though ironically it looks to be totally covered in parking lot in a strip mall sprawl anyway which I guess is still better than if it were above ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQjA8d-_cc Justin Tyme has issued a correction as of 16:42 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 16:37
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spiritual bypass posted:you do, but the construction of deep underground military bases has yielded many new techniques for coping with it And probably some novel ideas for spoiling hostile aquifers!
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Jan 3, 2024 16:38
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Gripweed posted:
well that's basically a fantasy tunnel boring machine  the real version they need to dig shafts between points and basically just go in straight lines between the shafts. so they need to construct basically giant freight elevators at each end and then as the machine bores the tunnel they have to build railroad tracks behind it to remove the spoil (rocks and dirt) back to the beginning shaft. they did design a nuclear powered tunnel boring machine in the 70s, though. https://www.freepatentsonline.com/3693731.pdf it was supposed to just melt the bedrock at 2800 F and then leave rock slag behind as it scooted along. maybe they actually built em but officially they did not
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Jan 3, 2024 16:42
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Justin Tyme posted:I feel like the gains in heating/cooling efficiency are marginal vs the cost in building a deep-rear end bunker especially if you build to passivhaus/LEED standards, it's not like we are out of building space necessitating building downwards considering so much urban land use is bullshit parking lots well if you put all the people in holes in the ground you could have more trees on the surface. especially useful in a scenario where the surface becomes uninhabitable. I'd bet it's certainly more cost effective than an orbital colony
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Jan 3, 2024 16:46
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Hatebag posted:well if you put all the people in holes in the ground you could have more trees on the surface. especially useful in a scenario where the surface becomes uninhabitable. stick everyone in these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterlaa feel like it's just a symptom that plagues a lot of other aspects of our society in that without strong central planning/just leaving it up to developers, they're just gonna do it as cheaply as possible using whatever bog standard 4-over-1 template prints the firms use and stick a bigass parking lot/parking garage next to em. that big courtyard with the park between the buildings? stick a grocery store and target underneath, boom, huge chunk of people's non-leisure and non-work reason to leave the house is taken care of within walking distance without sacrificing green space or surface real estate Justin Tyme has issued a correction as of 16:51 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 16:49
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Justin Tyme posted:stick everyone in these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterlaa central planning is communist and anti-american now watch this amazon master-planned city timelapse build
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Jan 3, 2024 16:55
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Hatebag posted:lumber construction is not as good as reinforced concrete blocks for earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes. plus it's hard to make a durable wood structure that's tall. though concrete is also not ideal for that because of the weight. I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld. When I die, they will put me in a box and dispose of it in the cold ground. And in all the million ages to come, I will never breath, or laugh, or twitch again. So won't you run and play with me here among the teeming mass of humanity? The universe has spared us this moment.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:59
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Justin Tyme posted:stick everyone in these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterlaa yeah having everything be constructed as cheaply and quickly as possible by the most cutthroat and selfish people available might have potential consequences. there's no way to be sure. i think a lot of places in the us it would actually be illegal per zoning to build underground stores next to residential areas lol. plus you'd need to consider radon in addition to the lack of sunlight. i bet the workers would have increased cancer rates. probably would be good to have skylights and coat the structure with epoxy.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:00
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Hatebag posted:lumber construction is not as good as reinforced concrete blocks for earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes. plus it's hard to make a durable wood structure that's tall. though concrete is also not ideal for that because of the weight. wait, how does the fire threat work, surely you could at least set it up so that you can seal off various sections in the event of fire so it neither spreads nor has any o2 to continue, no? or am I just vastly overestimating how fireproof concrete is?
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Jan 3, 2024 17:01
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Tempora Mutantur posted:wait, how does the fire threat work, surely you could at least set it up so that you can seal off various sections in the event of fire so it neither spreads nor has any o2 to continue, no? yeah, there are fire prevention measures you could use. at high enough temperatures the steel reinforcement in the rebar can fail, though. and the water in the concrete can boil off and make the concrete friable, weakening it, so you could have a structural collapse with a hot fire. smoke inhalation would probably be the biggest risk but like you said you could set up bulkheads. you'd probably need a pretty robust hvac system anyway so maybe you could also have a way to replace oxygen in burning sections. there are certainly ways to deal with it, i was just considering potential downsides
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Jan 3, 2024 17:10
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Hatebag posted:yeah, there are fire prevention measures you could use. at high enough temperatures the steel reinforcement in the rebar can fail, though. and the water in the concrete can boil off and make the concrete friable, weakening it, so you could have a structural collapse with a hot fire. Lol my building management company has put off replacing several vent fans on the roof because they don't want to spend the money. I can only imagine how needing HVAC would go in this situation
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Jan 3, 2024 17:14
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Hatebag posted:yeah, there are fire prevention measures you could use. at high enough temperatures the steel reinforcement in the rebar can fail, though. and the water in the concrete can boil off and make the concrete friable, weakening it, so you could have a structural collapse with a hot fire. Offhand I'd assume a fire at the upper levels would create such a draft that the lower levels would get suffocated without some sort of bulkhead system which would just trap people anyway. The lack of sunlight though is such a non-starter for me, it's massively anti-human factors design and feels extremely dystopian right from the get-go it may as well be a space colony. now I want to live in one of those austrian-style stepped apartments full of greenery but built so it mimicks a meandering mountainous valley with a river running in between  cut off the top half though so it's green all the way to the top
Justin Tyme has issued a correction as of 17:19 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 17:16
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KomradeX posted:Lol my building management company has put off replacing several vent fans on the roof because they don't want to spend the money. I can only imagine how needing HVAC would go in this situation I certainly wouldn't wanna live in the for-profit mole hole, lol
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Jan 3, 2024 17:18
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Tempora Mutantur posted:central planning is communist and anti-american Explaining that Amazon and Wal-Mart are very much like "bureaus of logistics and procurement" is a trip to Americans. Both can effectively impose economic policy much like the relevant former socialist government organizations in Eastern Europe, but the former are private and for profit
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Jan 3, 2024 17:29
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Justin Tyme posted:Offhand I'd assume a fire at the upper levels would create such a draft that the lower levels would get suffocated without some sort of bulkhead system which would just trap people anyway. The lack of sunlight though is such a non-starter for me, it's massively anti-human factors design and feels extremely dystopian right from the get-go it may as well be a space colony. hell, just make a step pyramid covered with terrace gardens. the synthesis of aztec and inca!
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Jan 3, 2024 17:32
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I feel that if you want to take advantaged of the cold/warm dynamic of the underground temperature, you can just use geothermal heat pump solutions. Or just move to warmer climate and build high rises in cities. Tall buildings make me feel better against rising sea level.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:46
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stephenthinkpad posted:I feel that if you want to take advantaged of the cold/warm dynamic of the underground temperature, you can just use geothermal heat pump solutions. Or just move to warmer climate and build high rises in cities. Tall buildings make me feel better against rising sea level. Well good news about that (not really)
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Jan 3, 2024 17:47
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Explaining that Amazon and Wal-Mart are very much like "bureaus of logistics and procurement" is a trip to Americans. Both can effectively impose economic policy much like the relevant former socialist government organizations in Eastern Europe, but the former are private and for profit calling most private sector white collar workers bureaucrats is both funny and correct. glad I'm not the only one doing this.
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If anyone is actually interested in how wood is used in modern construction, have a look at this. It links to various articles which explains some of the limitations, but also how timber is useful far beyond building a little log cabin. https://www.dezeen.com/timber-revol...DYwOC4wLjAuMA..
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Jan 3, 2024 17:54
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