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pseudorandom name posted:Warning: The Magicians is a bad trilogy that you shouldn't read. (The TV show is great, though.) My Shark Waifuu posted:Counterpoint: I enjoyed The Magicians trilogy. It's been years since I read them, but I remember that it captured young adult emotions around "I've achieved everything I thought I wanted ... why am I still depressed?" fairly well. No argument about the TV show, though, getting outside of Quentin's viewpoint is definitely an improvement. And the Golden Enclaves actually really disappointed me with the last book. Loved the first, as said, I love a good magic school book. I also gave up on Temeraire[sic?] after the second book, but Uprooted is in my top ten all time novels. I would definitely believe she wings series, but surprised if she doesn't at least have the general shape of each book's plot in mind.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:18
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I enjoyed the first Scholomance book for what it was but I gave up on the second one about 3/4 of the way through. Like a lot of YA series which involve the protagonist being put in a mysterious/dangerous situation like The Maze Runner, it feels like the concept was only barely fleshed out enough to make the first book work, and the resolution to the plot to the first book eliminates all the qualities that made the first book interesting, so there's no real way to make it hold together for more books.
mystes fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 16:20
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Eh I enjoyed all three of the Scholomance books, i actually felt like the third gave a pretty good explanation for the whole series with some interesting ideas. Definitely agreed that Naomi Novik is at her best in single novels and Spinning Silver is my personal pick for her best work.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:26
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I guess if it comes to a somewhat decent ending I might pick it up again and try to finish it. At least she didn't write herself into a corner in that case. But I feel like the other problem is that the thing that made the first book the most interesting was the situation the protagonist was in without anyone to trust, and without that element the second book just didn't seem that interesting
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Jan 3, 2024 16:29
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Bilirubin posted:yeah that is worse than anything I have ever seen out of them. Ugh. I was pretty heartbroken when I saw it all the first time, Kiernan is/was doing some of the most interesting things in the cosmic horror sphere for a while there
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Jan 3, 2024 16:43
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StrixNebulosa posted:Books with furry protagonists that I know of: I'll also add City by Clifford Simak (intelligent dogs in a utopian post-apocalyptic setting)
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Jan 3, 2024 17:32
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Slyphic posted:Orthogonal point, The Magicians are my favorite magic school books, I've reread them all more than a few times, and I hated the TV series. Quentin's whininess and dumb relationship drama I found relatable in an 18 year old but absolutely insufferable in the 25 year old they made him. Plus, the magic went from something learned and difficult to innate hand-wavy bullshit, and I gave up on it mid second season because it wasn't getting any better and all the plot points were diverging in the least interesting ways. Every change from the books was for the worse, and it replaced them with the same tired ideas TV keeps ruminanting. It could only have been worse if it became a police procedural. I read the Magicians while dating my now-wife while she was in a hard science PhD program, and the parallels between the people there and the book were really fantastic. I admit it's not the best series and Quentin can get real annoying, but it captures the vibe of people studying fundamental aspects of the world because they're all freakishly intelligent and motivated fairly well.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:37
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platero posted:I'd like to know what this book series is, I'm intrigued. You got the answer later on but it was the Immortal Knight Series. All free on KU and I've read six of the eight full length books and none of the novellas. These are absolutely military historical fiction first and vampires second. They are very similar to Bernard Cornwell's series like Warlord Chronicles, and our heroes vampirism (the term itself never comes up in dialogue until the sixth book) is a device to get our hero involved in some of the biggest battles and events and meet some of the most famous people across the high middle ages. I don't think this is spoilery, you can tell from the titles, but just in case, the some of historical events are the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols, Robin Hood myth, Mehmet II's campaign, 100 years war at the beginning, and the 100 years war/Gilles de Rais/Jeanne D'arc at the end, and Vlad III Dracula. He doesn't have Cornwell's gift for establishing setting and place, but he does very well in writing battles and smaller combat. The characters, prose, and dialogue are all fine. I will say that Davis is a history youtuber and that each of his books has one or more videos on his channel about the historical subjects he takes on. Ever since Neal Asher, I am highly sensitive to accidentally reading cryptofascist fantasy and sci fi authors, and so a British history youtuber writing about the Crusades is definitely a red flag in that regard. I did some due diligence and couldn't find anything suspicious, usually the evil writers are happy to proclaim it all across social media but he's mostly just retweeting articles about archaeological finds and going "Neat!" so I don't think you're going to have secret race science craniology snuck into your brain or anything. He does very much have a warts-and-all approach to the period though, so some of the characters' thought, speech, and actions might make you go "hmmmm" but they would be consistent with what people thought and how they behaved at the time. Here's an example, one of the books takes place during the Black Death, and Richard and his companions come across a family of Jewish refugees in the French countryside. Historically, Jews were blamed for and faced pogroms during the plague, monstrous things were done to Jewish people during those times. The family in the book is sympathetic, they are scared and unarmed and portrayed as refugees from persecution. But the companion is like "we should kill these Jews because they did 9/11" and Richard says no, I don't think so I think, that's too much. Then he thinks to himself "Of course everyone knows that Jews are devious but this family did nothing wrong". Now, that would pass as a "woke" take in the 14th c. but would be a horribly bigoted one in 2024. I don't think the author was espousing that view either, but some people might say "well, why does that need to be in there at all" and that's fair. So while I think he's no more racist than any British intellectual, he does have a commitment to showing how (he thinks, based on scholarship) people thought and acted in the middle ages so if you have problems with main characters doing and saying terrible things by modern standards, you'd probably wanna skip it. Also if you want deep vampire lore and vampire drama, it's not here. I'd say the books are 90% straight historical fiction with about 10% vampire stuff. I haven't read the last two because they deal with two periods I'm not as interested in, but I probably will go back at some point because hell, they're free. Instead, I got a book from his other series, Gods of Bronze, which is based on the premise that Hercules was an actual stone age warrior chief who did great deeds and is basically historical fiction about how people were during the period of transition from the neolithic to the bronze age, and I'm enjoying it as well. This one is more fantasy-ish because gods do exist and walk amongst the people, and our protagonist is in fact the son of Zeus and a mortal woman and is supernaturally mighty. I don't know if I would've kept going if they were standard price, but at $0.00 on KU, it was a no-brainer.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:12
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Yngwie Mangosteen posted:I read the Magicians while dating my now-wife while she was in a hard science PhD program, and the parallels between the people there and the book were really fantastic. I admit it's not the best series and Quentin can get real annoying, but it captures the vibe of people studying fundamental aspects of the world because they're all freakishly intelligent and motivated fairly well.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:33
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I finished the Magicians but it felt like an unlikable book that was poorly written
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Jan 3, 2024 18:50
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I think one of the biggest SF book thread fights ever was over if the Magicians was good or not.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:52
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I thought the Magicians was okay on its own but the subsequent books didn't really go in a direction I was interested in. You basically have to really want the books to be about not-Narnia rather than wanting not-Narnia to be a sort of gimmick in the advancement of the plot of the first book. Also even for just the first book you have to want to read a book where the gimmick is basically "harry potter but extremely burned out college students" mystes fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 18:53
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My view is that the entire trilogy is about one guy slowly growing and realizing he was an rear end in a top hat while suffering only relatively minor consequences which he viewed as foundational to his growth, and that just hit way too close to home.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:07
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branedotorg posted:Has anyone read anything by Sofia Samatar? Practice, the Horizon, and the Chain was recommended to me by an algorithmic site but I kept going and it also suggested Calypso by Oliver langmead, both to be released in 2024. Sofia Samatar is insanely good. The most gorgeous prose stylist writing fantasy atm and just an all round thoughtful writer. The Winged Histories should be, like, studied as a standout example of and deep reflection on ‘big’ heroic/epic fantasy, it’s just incredible. I’d second the short story in her collection, Tender if you like failing generation ship stuff. Strongly informed by her Mennonite background and very LeGuin-ish.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:08
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Selachian posted:On the subject of furries, Alan Dean Foster was ahead of the curve: back in the 80s, he wrote the Spellsinger series, about a guy from our world who's transported to a fantasy world inhabited by a mix of humans and furries. I remember it as mildly amusing but very, very light. It should be noted that Spellsinger is perhaps the least furry of all series with anthropomorphic animals in. There's nothing particularly graphic in it, the human protagonist has a full on aversion to interspecies "mingling", and his friend who does hop around a lot is generally considered to be a pervert. The first six are fun but light, don't bother with Son of Spellsinger as it's bad, and Chorus Skating is skippable but an entertaining look at fantasy heroes having a midlife crisis.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:08
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Jedit posted:It should be noted that Spellsinger is perhaps the least furry of all series with anthropomorphic animals in. There's nothing particularly graphic in it, the human protagonist has a full on aversion to interspecies "mingling", and his friend who does hop around a lot is generally considered to be a pervert. The first six are fun but light, don't bother with Son of Spellsinger as it's bad, and Chorus Skating is skippable but an entertaining look at fantasy heroes having a midlife crisis. Alan Dean Foster's best work
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Jan 3, 2024 19:12
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zoux posted:You got the answer later on but it was the Immortal Knight Series. All free on KU and I've read six of the eight full length books and none of the novellas. These are absolutely military historical fiction first and vampires second. I googled this and for some reason the fact the author's name wasn't part of the title never clicked, so I spent way too long going "who the gently caress names their vampire crusader Dan?". Gonna give em a shot, along with godborn.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:34
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I loved the third Scholomance book, because it was a serious look at "Our entire world is deeply hosed up, and I, personally, need to blow it up." There were genuine, permanent sacrifices being made. It didn't feel at all like a happy-ever-after.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:40
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I googled this and for some reason the fact the author's name wasn't part of the title never clicked, so I spent way too long going "who the gently caress names their vampire crusader Dan?". There are those who call me...Dan
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Jan 3, 2024 19:42
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Danhenge posted:Are you saying she doesn't plot? Yep. Here's Novik herself, discussing her process: quote:I'm a discovery writer rather than an outliner or planner -- character and setting work each other out as I go. I almost always start with a voice, in particular--what one specific character is doing or thinking or in the case of Uprooted and Spinning Silver, actually telling me in first person. It starts with a sentence and goes on from there, and what they're seeing or feeling or in the middle of doing tells me something about the world, and that in turn builds the character, and so on. I think action is the best way to reveal character; what a character chooses to do in a given situation tells both me and the reader a lot about them, and the more I write, the more I get an inner sense of the character and what they WOULD do in a wider variety of situations, what it is they care about. (source) Slyphic posted:And the Golden Enclaves actually really disappointed me with the last book. Loved the first, as said, I love a good magic school book. I also gave up on Temeraire[sic?] after the second book, but Uprooted is in my top ten all time novels. I would definitely believe she wings series, but surprised if she doesn't at least have the general shape of each book's plot in mind. Here's Novik talking specifically about the Temeraire (which I've not read): https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/8xppqk/comment/e24tj93/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 mystes posted:I guess if it comes to a somewhat decent ending I might pick it up again and try to finish it. At least she didn't write herself into a corner in that case. I enjoyed Scholomance and thought it ended well. But if what you wanted from Scholomance was for El to keep being the hated loner who can't trust anybody, then you might not. Learning to trust and gathering a community about her was kind of the point of El's character arc.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:47
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Leng posted:I enjoyed Scholomance and thought it ended well. But if what you wanted from Scholomance was for El to keep being the hated loner who can't trust anybody, then you might not. Learning to trust and gathering a community about her was kind of the point of El's character arc.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:51
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Leng posted:
indeed. instead, its about chloe becoming a loner who learns she cant trust anybody 
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Jan 3, 2024 20:06
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I probably will finish the second book and then read the third book though. The main reason I stopped was because I thought it was unlikely the third book would be good based on how I was feeling about the second, but based on what people are saying it sounds like that concern was unwarranted. Its been a little while so I might just reread the first book first too
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Jan 3, 2024 20:10
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I loved that in the third book the heroine becomes the One That Blew Omelas The gently caress Up.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:36
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I didn't mind the shift between the first and second books, but the third one introduced my most hated trope bar none when El becomes a prophecized chosen bullshit protagonist. drat near dropped the book right then and there. I'll skip books that start that way, almost as fast as I'll pass on 'maybe the PoV character is crazy and hallucinating? or is she?'
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Jan 3, 2024 21:01
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I also liked the third Scholomance book. It was not what I was expecting, but it fit with the established facts of the setting and morality of our protagonist. I found the twist on the prophecy amusing rather than off-putting, but I don't have Slyphic's allergy to the trope.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:56
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I also want to post some of my favorites from 2023 since I think I have some I haven’t seen mentioned much in the thread. I read a LOT this year but these were standouts: Leech by Hiron Ennes - A far-future post-apocalypse/societal/technology collapse featuring a protagonist who is made of body horror. Remnant Population by Elizabeth Moon - Grandma decides not to evacuate her failed space colony with everyone else. Left alone on an alien world, she makes first contact. Ninth House and Hell Bent by Leigh Bardugo - The elites at Yale are literally doing magic in their secret societies, to everyone’s detriment. The Marigold by Andrew F. Sullivan - The creeping plague of gentrification destroys Chicago. Some Desperate Glory by Emily Tesh - Your hyper-fash military government is personally lying to you, specifically you. Also you’re going to have your gay awakening while reality is flipping inside out, inconvenient! The Terraformers by Annalee Newtiz - What’s a person? Can you solve all public transit problems by making trains sentient? Signs point to yes. Actual plot: after spending centuries terraforming a world, who does that planet belong to? Shareholders and consumers, or the people who built(who were created to build) it? Dual Memory by Sue Burke - If you wrote a pre-robot war Matrix book it might be kind of like this? I like the way Sue Burke writes nonhuman intelligences a lot. Brainwyrms by Alison Rumfit - Disgusting, erotic, chilling, horrible. A Day of Fallen Night by Samantha Shannon - Prequel set centuries before the previous work in the series (Priory of the Orange Tree), big sweeping world-crossing fantasy with multiple character viewpoints, if you liked Priory you’ll like this. Like it’s got dragon riding court intrigue and stuff, its fantasy, idk what more I can say.
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Jan 3, 2024 22:53
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NoneMoreNegative posted:ahaha was this what Moltar was referencing!? Could have been indirectly via Megadeth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkXAAHDIN7U
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Jan 3, 2024 23:24
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Selachian posted:On the subject of furries, Alan Dean Foster was ahead of the curve: back in the 80s, he wrote the Spellsinger series, about a guy from our world who's transported to a fantasy world inhabited by a mix of humans and furries. I remember it as mildly amusing but very, very light. Qouzl, also by Alan Dean Foster, is incredibly furry.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:30
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big dyke energy posted:The Marigold by Andrew F. Sullivan - The creeping plague of gentrification destroys Chicago. Toronto?
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Jan 3, 2024 23:37
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Slyphic posted:I didn't mind the shift between the first and second books, but the third one introduced my most hated trope bar none when El becomes a prophecized chosen bullshit protagonist. drat near dropped the book right then and there. I'll skip books that start that way, almost as fast as I'll pass on 'maybe the PoV character is crazy and hallucinating? or is she?' I mean you already knew from page 1 book 1 she was prophesied to do some great and terrible stuff and was actively fighting that. her grandpa's reaction to realizing what the prophet had done was such an emotional gut punch of a moment. Just instant realization that he had been prepared to jump off a cliff holding his granddaughter because of what she said and immediately going 'gently caress you gently caress this house I am done'.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:38
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Benagain posted:I mean you already knew from page 1 book 1 she was prophesied to do some great and terrible stuff and was actively fighting that.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:51
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fritz posted:Qouzl, also by Alan Dean Foster, is incredibly furry. I read this at a formative age and I’m shocked I didn’t become a furry.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:20
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2010-2022 I kept up a reading log, just a paragraph or two per book, but I kept notes on what I read, averaging about 50 novels per year. 2023 was an abominable year and that got away from me, but late December was the least harrowed I've felt in ages and I'm excited to get back into the habit. Buehlman's Blacktongue Thief lived up to the hype and the year is off to a good start. Most of the criticism I've seen of it is around the ending and I can understand why, but also I've never been bothered by Stephenson's last pages so yeah, a great time with a book was had. This thread prodded my brain to pick up the copy of John Bellairs' The Face in the Frost that's been fermenting on the shelf next. (I like to add books to a list, find them for cheap, and then read them when I can't remember why I wanted to read them. I like to go in with no expectations or preconceptions if possible).
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Jan 4, 2024 00:45
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Slyphic posted:Page 10, but it was presented as general forboding about talent when it was mentioned, not literal predestination, which is an important distinction to me. A little precognizance is fine, but when the character has to shut up and get on the plot train, I get peeved, even if it's some witty wordplay bullshit so its true but not true or whatever. She explicitly talks about how her grandmother, quite literally, walks in and speaks a prophecy about how she was destined to bring ruin or whatever and her mother had to flee with her in her arms in the night to avoid her being killed by the rest of the family. How is that not predestination lol
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Jan 4, 2024 00:58
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Use of the word "Cyclopean" in A Tale of The Malazan : Book of The Fallen necessitates that Homer's Odyssey also existed in the world created by author Steven Erikson. In this paper I will give
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Jan 4, 2024 02:06
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Remulak posted:Toronto?  Yeah, it's Toronto. Dunno why I said Chicago.
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Jan 4, 2024 02:44
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I would also recommend Steven Barnes, his Aubry Knight books, (Street Lethal, Gorgon Child, Firedance), are an interesting slice of late 80s/90s cyberpunk. I'm not sure if he was also a game designer but a few of the core concepts of the first book appear in some RPG settings of the time. I.e. Southern California has the Big One hit, and to cover the budget shortfall they legalize basically everything and violent offenders are sent to a Super-Max in Death Valley? Japan does a post-colonial takeover of Africa to make up for it's resource/population shortfall and turns it into the worlds economic super power. Also, there's a spec ops group called Gorgons who are like the Sacred Band of Thebes if they could gestate their own kids, ala the Grendel comics. It's been probably 2 decades since I last read them but they're worth a read if you can find them on abebooks.
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Jan 4, 2024 03:09
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I enjoyed The Magicians but couldn’t get into the show cause it just doesn’t have the production values necessary to sell the world. In theory I like magic school books but aside from Vita Nostra I haven’t found any others I really connected with. I’m not counting A Wizard of Earthsea because only a bit of the plot happens there.
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Jan 4, 2024 05:50
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Finally getting around to reading Authority and I love that the ominous government conspiracy that set up the events of the prior book is, once you get a good look at it, basically completely inept and defunded because it doesn't make the USA any money or help the CIA create new ways of loving with socialist movements.
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Jan 4, 2024 06:27
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