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Kwyndig posted:You mean Nebula, Curiosity Stream is strictly for documentaries and is a separate (or more expensive) subscription. I'm just going by the one all the leftists I'm subbed to do ad placements for 🤷🏻♂️
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Jan 3, 2024 03:15
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ContinuityNewTimes posted:Google wants a picture of my passport to allow me the privilege of continuing to pay them for things like I have for the past decade. Haha yes I'm definitely going to do that lol, what triggered this? This is like Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 03:15
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PT6A posted:Right, but what I'm saying is that that there's certain unrelated topics that clearly have distinct intersections, and others that absolutely don't. Like this here: What makes "gamers" susceptible to nazi poo poo is the same thing that makes anyone susceptible to it, namely living in a society with bigotry woven into its foundation. Like, the average person looking at a video about a game isn't necessarily your stereotypical proto-incel waiting for the next gamergate to set them off; gaming is such a mainstream thing that I've personally known people ranging from the ages of 11 to their mid-sixties complaining about getting chud recommendations when they go to look up cool Minecraft videos/3 hour retrospectives of old adventure games, respectively. "The algorithm" isn't some inhuman, neutral power but rather based on decisions and criteria set by human beings, and allowing this radicalization pipeline is a choice just like any other. I can think of a couple interests of mine that never seemed to lead to nazi poo poo back when I kept recommendations on, mostly niche art poo poo I never had the motivation and time to actually get good at, but they absolutely had huge problems with bigotry--maybe just not immediately monetizable.
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Jan 3, 2024 03:29
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Mercury_Storm posted:lol, what triggered this? This is like
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Jan 3, 2024 03:29
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Meanwhile, this conversation has inspired me to remove all the game streamers from my subscriptions, because I was really only watching them for the dopamine hit of being mildly annoyed at how badly they play FromSoft games.
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Jan 3, 2024 03:49
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PT6A posted:Right, but what I'm saying is that that there's certain unrelated topics that clearly have distinct intersections, and others that absolutely don't. Like this here: The only innocuous pipeline or A>B>C path I've found is: one day I wanted to figure out how to solve some metal puzzle thing I got as a gift (Don't sass me I gave it a solid two weeks of trying). It was a two minute video where some dude just wordlessly solved the puzzle and put it back together. The next day I had a TON of recommendations for very fancy playing card sets, along with more puzzle videos, and then I got more recs over the next week leading to slight of hand magic and card tricks. Finally it seems to have just fizzled out on Magic Trick explainer videos about famous tricks and stuff. So Puzzles>Playing Cards> Slight of Hand>Magic Tricks Explained. Then I got annoyed and nuked all of that poo poo from my watch history and blocked the channels.
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Jan 3, 2024 03:59
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woke kaczynski posted:What makes "gamers" susceptible to nazi poo poo is the same thing that makes anyone susceptible to it, namely living in a society with bigotry woven into its foundation. Like, the average person looking at a video about a game isn't necessarily your stereotypical proto-incel waiting for the next gamergate to set them off; gaming is such a mainstream thing that I've personally known people ranging from the ages of 11 to their mid-sixties complaining about getting chud recommendations when they go to look up cool Minecraft videos/3 hour retrospectives of old adventure games, respectively. "The algorithm" isn't some inhuman, neutral power but rather based on decisions and criteria set by human beings, and allowing this radicalization pipeline is a choice just like any other. I agree that the choice to allow the pipeline to exist is indeed a choice like any other, but that's really not the whole story. You say that the average person looking at videos about a game isn't a proto-incel or whatever, but I think you're wrong and that's the point I'm trying to make here. The algorithm has determined that, in fact, that's the case. And myself, and you, and the people ranging from 11 to their mid-sixties that you speak of, perhaps are the exceptions rather than the rule. I think instead of getting offended by the implication, maybe we should spend a lot more time thinking about why the algorithm has made this connection in a way that it clearly doesn't with other hobbies, like knitting or playing the guitar. Like, I'm not saying gaming is a moral deficiency -- I'm a gamer too, it's a fine hobby and there's nothing wrong with it. But I am saying there's a specific problem within the gamer community that leads to this poo poo, and it's not just because we live in a society with bigotry woven into its foundation, because then it would affect all hobbies equally, and you and I both know it doesn't.
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Jan 3, 2024 04:31
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PT6A posted:I agree that the choice to allow the pipeline to exist is indeed a choice like any other, but that's really not the whole story. You say that the average person looking at videos about a game isn't a proto-incel or whatever, but I think you're wrong and that's the point I'm trying to make here. The algorithm has determined that, in fact, that's the case. And myself, and you, and the people ranging from 11 to their mid-sixties that you speak of, perhaps are the exceptions rather than the rule. I think instead of getting offended by the implication, maybe we should spend a lot more time thinking about why the algorithm has made this connection in a way that it clearly doesn't with other hobbies, like knitting or playing the guitar. See, in my experience hobbies/interests are a lot more evenly affected, it just tends to manifest differently. For instance, just on the music front, I don't play guitar (yet) so I can't speak to that, but I did use to play piano, and you'd definitely get videos sometimes talking about how classical music was the best and how the degenerate [elided over so as not to be demonetized] ruined everything and now all modern music is garbage. I don't think it's controversial to say that there have been issues of racism and other discrimination in classical music communities, but if someone gets sucked down a rabbit hole from that entry point I doubt there would be nearly as many people going "ah, of course, classic piano enjoyer behavior". I'm not out here defending the honor of gamers or anything, I grew up playing games while not being white or male and you're preaching to the choir there. I'm certainly not getting offended on their behalf. There are definitely scenes that have done better and worse jobs at fighting (some) bigotries, at least openly. I just fundamentally disagree with your premise that the average person searching for Madden glitch videos is even by definition part of the gaming community you define here, much less that they have an outsized susceptibility to fascism based on that interest. I think cause and effect aren't nearly so cleanly set at this point, and it's entirely possible that 6 months from now there could be some nexus of knitting content creators who get big and also happen to be lowkey anti-vax and "just asking questions" about Q, and then in 5 years people could be like "well of course you'd get ads for ivermectin, you know what knitters can be like" completely missing the point.
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Jan 3, 2024 04:56
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woke kaczynski posted:See, in my experience hobbies/interests are a lot more evenly affected, it just tends to manifest differently. For instance, just on the music front, I don't play guitar (yet) so I can't speak to that, but I did use to play piano, and you'd definitely get videos sometimes talking about how classical music was the best and how the degenerate [elided over so as not to be demonetized] ruined everything and now all modern music is garbage. I don't think it's controversial to say that there have been issues of racism and other discrimination in classical music communities, but if someone gets sucked down a rabbit hole from that entry point I doubt there would be nearly as many people going "ah, of course, classic piano enjoyer behavior". You know, I think that's very fair and a perspective I hadn't considered. I have seen those videos. I've also seen, equally, videos saying "is classical music the best? No, here's why that's bullshit!" recommended to me (they are good videos because they're true). I don't know how much is legitimately the algorithm trying to figure out what I'd like, and how much of it is the algorithm being like "I bet we could sell this motherfucker an oud and make a tasty commission."
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Jan 3, 2024 05:13
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I've spent a minute thinking about this now and as far as I can recall, the only video content I've never had to avoid reactionary bait recommendations on is ASMR videos. I don't really have a conclusion to draw from that, it's just amusing.
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Jan 3, 2024 05:53
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woke kaczynski posted:and it's entirely possible that 6 months from now there could be some nexus of knitting content creators who get big and also happen to be lowkey anti-vax and "just asking questions" about Q, and then in 5 years people could be like "well of course you'd get ads for ivermectin, you know what knitters can be like" completely missing the point. Kitting has some adjacency to prepping and then you are Right There. My wife and I were talking about this, and we concluded that the more bros/rural/rural-bros like the topic, the more chances you will start to hit terrible bullshit. So having interests in cars, racing, sports, weightlifting, military history, video games (some genres more than others), non-urban vegetable growing, guns, and juvenile shock stuff will give The Algorithm multiple avenues to start autoplaying the Nazis. Edit: And good luck with Celtic and Nordic stuff. Edit edit: Dieting that bros like or just food that bros like--especially beef. Okay I am stopping. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 06:47
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woke kaczynski posted:I've spent a minute thinking about this now and as far as I can recall, the only video content I've never had to avoid reactionary bait recommendations on is ASMR videos. I don't really have a conclusion to draw from that, it's just amusing. [ASMR] Quietly whispering a reading of "My Struggle" into your ears I would guess that the game stuff is the legacy of the marketing differentiation that happened in the 80s-90s that focused on making video games a Boys Thing, and the gate keeping that ensued, along with the efforts in the 80s(? 70s?) to focus on having weird single white dudes be programmers because they would work late without complaining about "families" or "harassment."
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Jan 3, 2024 06:57
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Crain posted:The only innocuous pipeline or A>B>C path I've found is: one day I wanted to figure out how to solve some metal puzzle thing I got as a gift (Don't sass me I gave it a solid two weeks of trying). It was a two minute video where some dude just wordlessly solved the puzzle and put it back together. The next day I had a TON of recommendations for very fancy playing card sets, along with more puzzle videos, and then I got more recs over the next week leading to slight of hand magic and card tricks. Finally it seems to have just fizzled out on Magic Trick explainer videos about famous tricks and stuff. This is the Chris Ramsay pipeline, so it makes sense. He does timelapse puzzle box content, but he's also a close-up card magician who does reaction content to magic tricks. He also does "cardistry" where people do fancy card shuffles and the flourish-y parts of card tricks with expensive decks made to withstand bending/look flashy doing it. If you watch a single one of his videos, you will be recommended "Penn & Teller: Fool Us" clips until the last server at Alphabet finally powers down for good
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Jan 3, 2024 07:03
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This thread on one hand: "omg the recommendations suck/I keep getting nazi suggestions/they want me to buy more of $product because I thought about one once" This thread on the other hand: "nooooo I can't just log out of Google and use incognito tabs for YouTube because my watch historyyyyyys! and no my browser doesn't have a bookmark feature"
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Jan 3, 2024 07:44
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Is “I don’t like it when my recommendations contain nazi poo poo instead of documentaries about woodturning” too nuanced a take??
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Jan 3, 2024 07:50
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blastron posted:Is “I don’t like it when my recommendations contain nazi poo poo instead of documentaries about woodturning” too nuanced a take?? A late of the trade stuff gets into self-sufficiency, prepping, and a lot of angry dad energy even if the people themselves are pretty chill. The trick in all this is it's less about the show and more about the audience.
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Jan 3, 2024 07:56
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blastron posted:Is “I don’t like it when my recommendations contain nazi poo poo instead of documentaries about woodturning” too nuanced a take?? You have hit precisely on the beating heart of my post, good work!
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Jan 3, 2024 08:28
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Weatherman posted:You have hit precisely on the beating heart of my post, good work! Could you please explain your point, then, because it sounded like you were manufacturing some sort of hypocrisy to be smug about and I responded with the level of dignity that deserved.
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Jan 3, 2024 09:14
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Mister Facetious posted:I'm just going by the one all the leftists I'm subbed to do ad placements for 🤷🏻♂️ Curiosity Stream used to come with Nebula but that promotion is mostly gone now, Nebula is surviving on their own. Their 2023 year in review post at https://blog.nebula.tv/2023-review/ goes into details about how the business is going. It's pretty fascinating how they're managing to stay positive as a creator-owned platform and refuse to take any kind of VC money or sell out. Nebula is definitely worth subscribing to if you like the creators on it, and most of the content is pretty good quality. It seems like it's the Youtube that everyone here wants, just mostly educational content without any algorithm nonsense pushing crap you don't want.
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Jan 3, 2024 09:18
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My YT recommendations are Mario speedrun deep-dives, explanations of quaternions, Lego submarines, and dogs going hiking 🤷🏻♂️
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Jan 3, 2024 10:20
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I'd lvoe a great way to block all youtubers that promote stupid lovely things like scottish lordship and ridge wallets
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Jan 3, 2024 13:13
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SponsorBlock will at least skip those segments of the videos
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Jan 3, 2024 13:22
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BiggerBoat posted:Man...YOuTube really REALLY wants me to turn on my search history right now. There's not even a confirm button for "yes, I know it's off, assholes". Just a reminder window letting me know that they can't send me crappy suggestions. Late to the party but I assume they are trying to make shorts, which requires watch history, a thing at the expense of the rest of YT. It’s funny that they refuse to construct a basic homepage even though I have tons of playlists and videos saved to watch later.
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Jan 3, 2024 13:44
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TACD posted:SponsorBlock will at least skip those segments of the videos Oh i have that. But it's not enough so they get zero of my time/ad money.
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Jan 3, 2024 14:02
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Kwyndig posted:One thing I recommend on YT is to avoid the "recommended for you" page and panels. Instead always go to your subscriptions and pick a video off of that list to watch. And turn off autoplay. If you want recommendations, use the search bar and look up a topic that interests you and try a few videos off of that.  It's supposed to urge me to turn the setting back on but instead it made me go "actually, this is nice, I could use to have less algorithmic content in my life".
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Jan 3, 2024 14:35
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I'm in the planning phase of a kitchen renovation and I feel like I will get re-targeted ads from tile and countertop shops for the rest of my life now. I do feel like lately the Tik Tok algorithm is getting lazy but maybe I'm just so used to it now. I'll have a day where it's 80% New Heights podcasts clips because I watched one full clip of the Kelce brothers explaining a play and read the comments.
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Jan 3, 2024 14:50
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Mercury_Storm posted:lol, what triggered this? This is like I have no idea. I use(d) Google Pay for YouTube Music and podcast addict premium and nothing else. I've got Spotify now so good job Google
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Jan 3, 2024 15:39
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woke kaczynski posted:What makes "gamers" susceptible to nazi poo poo is the same thing that makes anyone susceptible to it, namely living in a society with bigotry woven into its foundation. Like, the average person looking at a video about a game isn't necessarily your stereotypical proto-incel waiting for the next gamergate to set them off; gaming is such a mainstream thing that I've personally known people ranging from the ages of 11 to their mid-sixties complaining about getting chud recommendations when they go to look up cool Minecraft videos/3 hour retrospectives of old adventure games, respectively. "The algorithm" isn't some inhuman, neutral power but rather based on decisions and criteria set by human beings, and allowing this radicalization pipeline is a choice just like any other. Playing videogames may be mainstream, but boys aged 13-25 are still significantly overrepresented in the hobby. Especially when it comes to people who might self-identify as "a gamer" and watch videogame videos all the time, as opposed to "someone who plays videogames sometimes" who watches videogame videos every once in a while. The algorithm may operate following decisions set by human beings, but those decisions are largely content-neutral. The decisions being made by human beings are things like "when you're looking at a video, the third recommendation on the list should ignore popularity and be slightly further out from the viewer's interests". When it comes to what subjects are recommended to people, that's based on what other people watch - it's mainly dictated by viewer decisions, not executive decisions. The executives dictate how the algorithm interprets viewer actions, but there's no real reason to think that the right-wing recommendations are coming from Youtube managers. woke kaczynski posted:See, in my experience hobbies/interests are a lot more evenly affected, it just tends to manifest differently. For instance, just on the music front, I don't play guitar (yet) so I can't speak to that, but I did use to play piano, and you'd definitely get videos sometimes talking about how classical music was the best and how the degenerate [elided over so as not to be demonetized] ruined everything and now all modern music is garbage. I don't think it's controversial to say that there have been issues of racism and other discrimination in classical music communities, but if someone gets sucked down a rabbit hole from that entry point I doubt there would be nearly as many people going "ah, of course, classic piano enjoyer behavior". That association doesn't necessarily just come from people going from the classical music community to white supremacy. There's also the other way around. Many white nationalists are eager to find things they can shoehorn into an imaginary generic "white culture" in order to shore up their beliefs that whiteness implies a common cultural heritage, and classical music is one of the things they often tend to land on.
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Jan 3, 2024 15:44
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It's a miracle that I don't see more weird rabbit-hole poo poo cus I watch a ton of Let's Plays (mostly Game Grumps), Ham Radio, EDC, and political content and never get chud poo poo in my "for you" while participating in 0 data hygiene things. Edit: I also watch a ton of Some More News. Maybe Cody Johnston is some sort of ward against getting Jorp and Benny Shaps in your recs?
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Jan 3, 2024 16:32
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Cody is basically the opposite of jorp so I dunno, maybe? It certainly makes sense, as left wingers don't watch a lot of right wing content and vice versa, not a big hate watching crowd when it comes to politics.
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Jan 3, 2024 16:46
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If I put on a documentary with Bethany Hughes or Attenborough or whatever and just let it autoplay whatever comes next it'll eventually and inevitably end up playing some honebrew poo poo about secret ancient aliens controlling the government with RFID 5G vaccine crystals. It would be great if youtube had some quality control parameters but the depressing part is honestly that so many people voluntarily choose to watch this poo poo and that so many of them take it seriously.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:02
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My YouTube recommendations are fine to good. I don't watch chud channels ever and aggressively use the "I don't like this recommendation" button when it serves up something bad. Now the worst behavior I get is YouTube auto playing a Dan Olsen or Jenny Nicholson video I've seen a dozen times already. It may help that I shell out for Premium each month.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:02
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blastron posted:Could you please explain your point, then, because it sounded like you were manufacturing some sort of hypocrisy to be smug about and I responded with the level of dignity that deserved. Everyone keeps complaining about The Blessed Algorithm making bad recommendations they don't like. No one seems to consider "stop feeding the loving algorithm with your watch history and stop consuming the loving algorithm by using incognito tabs or blocking YouTube's cookies and histories altogether" as an option. If you want to keep track of interesting videos for later then press Command+D or whatever it is to save a bookmark in your browser. If you're bored and need to consume YouTube video instead of going for a walk or something than sit still, let your mind wander to a topic you've been wondering about recently, then type that into the search box. Yes yes, ~*~the algorithm~*~ will return the search results but that's the most you'll have to deal with it if you choose to. Algorithmicly generated content is a blight upon the Internet, I agree, but it's amazing how many people are going on about how much they hate it while they describe their active, easily avoided engagement with it.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:59
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so what exactly is a good recommendation algorithm ?
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Jan 3, 2024 19:08
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PhazonLink posted:so what exactly is a good recommendation algorithm ? The one between our ears.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:12
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i dunno, the problem seems to be between the keyboard and chair.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:14
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Error # ID10T
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Jan 3, 2024 19:17
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PhazonLink posted:i dunno, the problem seems to be between the keyboard and chair. But I made sure to turn my monitor on this time.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:44
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TACD posted:My YT recommendations are Mario speedrun deep-dives, explanations of quaternions, Lego submarines, and dogs going hiking 🤷🏻♂️ Hell yeah sounds dope
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Jan 3, 2024 22:11
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Weatherman posted:
That's...what I do/did. But my screen looks like this, like Elukka posted. Elukka posted:I turned off every Google privacy invasion thing I could and they made my YouTube front page blank and it looks like this now. You can't even close the loving thing. I mean, I can ignore it, which I do but would it kill them to just let me say "got it, thanks!" Also, Incognito mode disables the ad blocker(s) I have that still (borderline) work with YT. Being force fed advertising and engaging in the arms race to avoid it is really annoying and I'd even argue that absorbing too much advertising is bad for a person's mental health and decision making skills. It's a blight on society but it drives EVERYTHING and we're really not too far off from the Blade Runner/Minority Report landscape I don't think. If companies could project ads on my windshield and rear view mirrors or make me watch three commercials before I could start my car or even open a door to a building or a restroom, they would. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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