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Push El Burrito posted:My great grandmother had a cat named Sambo and I didn't think anything of it as a kid but I'm pretty sure this super old lady from the south might have been a little racist? It's very common for a sandwich to be called a sambo in Ireland, and there doesn't seem to be any connection at all to the racist usage. It's still kind of awkward when you know. https://her.ie/life/toastie-time-10-best-places-get-toasted-sambo-ireland-283444 https://lovin.ie/food-2/irelands-favourite-sambo-revealed-ahead-of-world-sandwich-day
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Jan 4, 2024 18:05
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Pookah posted:It's very common for a sandwich to be called a sambo in Ireland, and there doesn't seem to be any connection at all to the racist usage. It's still kind of awkward when you know. Wtf are you doing here
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Jan 4, 2024 18:14
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a minor thing in Pacific Rim that didnt age well was the fact that the entire world was able to come together and respond to a massive global threat. yeah sure humans will united in crisis.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:16
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Pookah posted:It's very common for a sandwich to be called a sambo in Ireland, and there doesn't seem to be any connection at all to the racist usage. It's still kind of awkward when you know. How do you gently caress up 'sando' when it's right there
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Jan 4, 2024 18:19
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FreudianSlippers posted:Why do more people talk about John Lennon beating his wives than about any of the other 60s rockstars who probably did the same? The others weren't in the Beatles. He's influential because nobody shuts up about him. Read the work of someone else who was less racist and exactly as good. Let Lovecraft fade into obscurity There were plenty of musicians exactly as good as John Lennon who didn't smack their wives around as much. Nobody gives a poo poo about the Beatles anymore, you're allowed to pick and choose who gets remembered.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:23
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Pookah posted:It's very common for a sandwich to be called a sambo in Ireland, and there doesn't seem to be any connection at all to the racist usage. It's still kind of awkward when you know. Massachusettsans colloquially refer to liquor stores as "packies" (derived from "package store" apparently), which was extremely eyebrow-raising the first time I heard it
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Jan 4, 2024 18:24
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Asterite34 posted:He's influential because nobody shuts up about him. Read the work of someone else who was less racist and exactly as good. Let Lovecraft fade into obscurity lol this ridiculous take always comes up it makes sense on the surface so I get it, it's like a fox news talking point
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Jan 4, 2024 18:25
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Let's just memory hole Cthulhu
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Jan 4, 2024 18:26
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Asterite34 posted:I feel like we wouldn't be litigating and rationalizing Lovecraft's weird gross opinions if people just read more Weird Fiction. There were dozens of other authors from his time period who also wrote prolifically about greebly space monsters with at least equal deftness and skill. And most of them were, well, still usually pretty old-timey racist tbh, but not "set myself on fire because my dad hosed a gorilla" bizarre about it. Most places I see lovecraft come up barely mention the writing though, only the branding. People like the name, tentacles, a monster with a octopus for a head, thats about it. When i do hear about him in the RPG community It's usually someone who just found out about his racism saying we shouldn't play Call of Cthulhu anymore, then they invariably pull out some other game with Cthulhu in the name, they never want to play Unknown Armies instead, they want the thing everyone has heard of, the thing you can get on a t-shirt.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:26
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Toshimo posted:Wtf are you doing here I don't understand, I'm not 'doing'anything? I thought it was mildly interesting that a term which has definite negative racial connotations in many contexts, has a completely different meaning in another. Can't multiquote easily bc on phone but I'm guessing it's not 'sando' because sandwich is normally pronounced 'samwich' here. Like in Australia, its pretty common to shorten names etc to the first syllable and add an 'o' at the end
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Jan 4, 2024 18:28
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Brawnfire posted:Let's just memory hole Cthulhu I've seen some writers bill their stories as "cosmic horror" instead of "Lovecraftian" in order to try and separate the genre from the racist dead guy.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:30
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PhazonLink posted:a minor thing in Pacific Rim that didnt age well was the fact that the entire world was able to come together and respond to a massive global threat. But that's kind of a common thing in stories like that? Maybe I just confuse it with 4x games where Earth is a united place because there's 8 other empires out there that will gladly take over, or destroy, or assimilate, or turn into a feeding/breeding colony, etc.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:33
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WaywardWoodwose posted:Most places I see lovecraft come up barely mention the writing though, only the branding. People like the , tentacles, He is extremely popular in Japan, correct
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Jan 4, 2024 18:37
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The n-word used to be a popular name for dogs up until at least the 1950s (and that has some loving layers to it), most notably the dog which was the mascot of the Dam Busters air squadron in WW2. There were complaints as recently as 2001 over modern movies about the Dam Busters either dropping all mention of the dog or changing its name to 'Trigger'. My great-grandfather used to have a dog named that. It was a black lab IIRC
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Jan 4, 2024 18:48
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the_steve posted:I've seen some writers bill their stories as "cosmic horror" instead of "Lovecraftian" in order to try and separate the genre from the racist dead guy. I mean who cares? It's obviously been trivially easy to adapt his works without racist themes.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:51
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WaywardWoodwose posted:Most places I see lovecraft come up barely mention the writing though, only the branding. People like the name, tentacles, a monster with a octopus for a head, thats about it. When i do hear about him in the RPG community It's usually someone who just found out about his racism saying we shouldn't play Call of Cthulhu anymore, then they invariably pull out some other game with Cthulhu in the name, they never want to play Unknown Armies instead, they want the thing everyone has heard of, the thing you can get on a t-shirt. Honestly, considering how much work other people have done with the mythos, I think it's fairly safe to tell them that the beliefs of the original author no longer have any bearing on the properties using the mythos. Pretty sure if someone had a time machine, the rage he would have at the idea of a black transgender woman being a protagonist in anything associated with his writing would be enough to power North America for a thousand lifetimes.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:57
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Arivia posted:I’m tired and I’m going to sleep but Mike is, as far as I know, fine. He just is in proximity to some bad ideas. Yeah, Mike's a decent person. He's conservative, but the 'no way will I vote for Trump' conservative.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:14
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The n-word used to be a popular name for dogs up until at least the 1950s (and that has some loving layers to it), most notably the dog which was the mascot of the Dam Busters air squadron in WW2. There were complaints as recently as 2001 over modern movies about the Dam Busters either dropping all mention of the dog or changing its name to 'Trigger'. I'm really torn on this tbh. It's a terrible slur, but that's why I think it's kinda important to point out that the heroes of this particular story weren't perfect and were people of their time. It's like one of my old coworkers, he served in the nz army because he wanted to bring women's rights to the middle east because he was raised by a single mum. He was also an outright neonazi who wouldn't work with Samoans or Tongans and leaving that out of any discussion of him would give you a completely different opinion on him. Cutting out anything you find abhorrent now is how you get the weird military cult of the usa where they are all square jawed perfect heroes.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:31
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Yeah, Mike's a decent person. He's conservative, but the 'no way will I vote for Trump' conservative. Considering Mike is still on good terms with Frank you can be sure he doesn't have any chud tendencies. Frank doesn't put up with that poo poo.
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Jan 4, 2024 21:08
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Asterite34 posted:He's influential because nobody shuts up about him. Read the work of someone else who was less racist and exactly as good. Let Lovecraft fade into obscurity Look I would love if the most influential figure in weird fiction and horror was M.R. James and/or W.H. Hodgson* and it was all scholars unearthing profane cursed objects or cosmic maritime adventures sometimes featuring pigmen but alas Lovecraft came out on top and every child knows Cthulhu when they see him so all Cosmic Horror and Weird Fiction is tentacles and seamonsters (which Hodgson actually pioneered before Lovecraft even started writing. Being a former sailor and all). I can't change decades of cultural history. *Both of whom probably held some racist views, being Victorian Englishmen and all, but never made it as much of a thing as far as I know. The only M.R. James story I remember that is suspect is The Uncommon Prayerbook which features a dishonest merchant with a unspecified foreign accent who is possibly called either Homburger or Poschwitz who might be a Jewish stereotype but if it was Lovecraft there would've been three paragraphs describing in great detail just how Jewish and Shysty this Jewish Shyster was. Hodgson wrote around 5 million stories many of them dealing with sailing and exploration so it's possible that a few of them are a bit dated in terms of racial politics.
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Jan 4, 2024 21:21
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Racism was widely accepted and seen as part of everyday life hundreds of years ago. But what is popular (racism) isn’t always right (not racism) and what’s right (again, not racism) isn’t always popular (refer back to the racism). That’s from the Bible. Another piece of media that hasn’t aged well now that I think about it
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Jan 4, 2024 21:44
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Every lovely dad I knew growing up had a dog named Blue. Why the gently caress You could pretty safely assume alcoholism and domestic abuse this way.
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Jan 5, 2024 00:05
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My grandpa who read Lovecraft indeed owned a cat he named Obama edit: He addressed the cat as Mr President most of the time though
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Jan 5, 2024 00:30
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credburn posted:Every lovely dad I knew growing up had a dog named Blue. Why the gently caress I know an old folk song called "Old Blue" or "Old Dog Blue", and at least one dad (my highschool girlfriend's) that named his dog after that.
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Jan 5, 2024 00:32
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FreudianSlippers posted:just how Jewish and Shysty this Jewish Shyster was. Something fun I learned recently, "shyster" isn't anti Semitic. The origin is from the German word scheisse, not Shakespeare's Shylock character. https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/almID/900005387204/ Then again, if it's used in that context often enough, it might as well be a slur in common use, so calibrate accordingly.
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Jan 5, 2024 00:37
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Yeah, that's another one where context really matters. Personal anecdote about that: In my theater class back in the mid-00s I heard characters described by the teacher and older students as "a shylock", not as in the slur but as in they are describing a character someone has to play which was steeped in stereotypes by the writer. As in like, this role is going to probably suck to portray. edit: The gang from It's Always Sunny for example are the types of characters they'd refer to as that. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 00:44 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 00:41
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oldpainless posted:Racism was widely accepted and seen as part of everyday life hundreds of years ago. But what is popular (racism) isn’t always right (not racism) and what’s right (again, not racism) isn’t always popular (refer back to the racism). That’s from the Bible. Even though it’s not great that American media have embraced the shorthand of having one (1) white loutish racist out to get the black characters and one (1) enlightened white in authority to help them to dramatize racism when presenting any kind of story set in the past, it’s worth pointing out that there were people in the past who knew that racism was wrong and tried to oppose it. Most of the ones who went along with it knew it was wrong too, at least a little. “He was a man of his time” is a thought-terminator loved by the right wing.
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Jan 5, 2024 00:49
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PhazonLink posted:a minor thing in Pacific Rim that didnt age well was the fact that the entire world was able to come together and respond to a massive global threat. A virus is a lot harder to grasp than a 50 story giant monster shooting blue plasma all over the place
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Jan 5, 2024 00:53
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That lovely sequel had the opportunity to change the name of Gypsy Danger. But instead of getting rid of the bad word it changed the name to Gypsy Avenger. The name is now problematic and unoriginal!
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Jan 5, 2024 01:31
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Something fun I learned recently, "shyster" isn't anti Semitic. The origin is from the German word scheisse, not Shakespeare's Shylock character. I once had to explain to someone why the phrase "call a spade a spade" is usually OK but 100% not if you are discussing modern racism.
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Jan 5, 2024 01:39
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Something fun I learned recently, "shyster" isn't anti Semitic. The origin is from the German word scheisse, not Shakespeare's Shylock character. Eh, I grew up in a Jewish family where it flew freely and I also looked that up myself a few years ago. I had assumed for years that it was actually a Yiddish phrase.
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Jan 5, 2024 02:00
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I always had a problem with "the pot calling the kettle black," because, to me, it always seemed really obvious that the suggestion is it's bad to be black. Like the salt calling the sugar white!
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Jan 5, 2024 02:08
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FreudianSlippers posted:Hodgson wrote around 5 million stories many of them dealing with sailing and exploration so it's possible that a few of them are a bit dated in terms of racial politics. Also for all its bleak inventiveness and weird archaisms The Night Land is the_author's_barely_disguised_fetishes.txt, but, like, that's fuckin par for the course for science fiction so I'm not even sure what my point is
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Jan 5, 2024 03:03
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Spazzle posted:I mean who cares? It's obviously been trivially easy to adapt his works without racist themes. Because gently caress that dead old piece of poo poo
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Jan 5, 2024 04:31
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credburn posted:I always had a problem with "the pot calling the kettle black," because, to me, it always seemed really obvious that the suggestion is it's bad to be black. This has never been “obvious” to me It’s always meant stop being a hypothetical jerk
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Jan 5, 2024 04:34
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Yeah, Mike's a decent person. He's conservative, but the 'no way will I vote for Trump' conservative. He was on a podcast with doug ten apples of earthworm jim where they constantly used slurs like human being and raged against covid lockdowns and vaccines
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Jan 5, 2024 04:34
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carrionman posted:It's like one of my old coworkers, he served in the nz army because he wanted to bring women's rights to the middle east because he was raised by a single mum. Joining the military to "bring women's rights to the middle east" is some nazi buzzword poo poo you moron
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Jan 5, 2024 04:36
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Improbable Lobster posted:He was on a podcast with doug ten apples of earthworm jim where they constantly used slurs like human being and raged against covid lockdowns and vaccines https://www.reddit.com/r/MST3K/comments/havrut/a_statement_from_mike_nelson_posted_on_rifftraxs/
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Jan 5, 2024 04:39
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credburn posted:I always had a problem with "the pot calling the kettle black," because, to me, it always seemed really obvious that the suggestion is it's bad to be black. It's because iron pots and kettles used to be black
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Jan 5, 2024 04:42
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CelticPredator posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/MST3K/comments/havrut/a_statement_from_mike_nelson_posted_on_rifftraxs/ He also pulled lowtax’s episode of rifftrax down from his website within a day of his abuse allegations being revealed. I think he’s at least pretty ok.
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Jan 5, 2024 04:59
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