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Even Domain is just esper midrange splashing beans Triomes were a mistake
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Jan 4, 2024 17:55
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HootTheOwl posted:The solution, and you'all don't want to have this conversation, is to make "exile" meet the condition to trigger "dies" I support this but it would probably make blink effects too good.
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Jan 4, 2024 18:38
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HootTheOwl posted:The solution, and you'all don't want to have this conversation, is to make "exile" meet the condition to trigger "dies" That feels like it would break so many things by making removal all hosed up
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Jan 4, 2024 18:47
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ilmucche posted:That feels like it would break so many things by making removal all hosed up You are not ready to have the conversation
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Jan 4, 2024 18:52
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What do you think the biggest benefit of the change is, Hoot?
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Jan 4, 2024 18:58
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Alternatively add "departs" that is dies or is exiled and then they have a tool to dial in how effective they want exile removal to be without breaking anything.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:02
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I would simply not print exile sweepers in Standard. The last one I recall was Shadow’s Verdict, which was also annoying as hell. In fact, there’s a lot of similarities between Domain now and that Sultai Ultimatum deck from that standard era. Both are miserable to play against.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:05
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My hottest MTG take is I think that a lot of modern answer cards (removal, etc) in mtg has gotten way too efficient, which has made the threats have to be insanely powerful to compensate for it It's a race to produce ever more efficient threats that do everything, and then later print more efficient answers to deal with those more efficient threats
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Jan 4, 2024 19:10
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Alternatively add "departs" that is dies or is exiled and then they have a tool to dial in how effective they want exile removal to be without breaking anything. We already have that https://scryfall.com/card/znc/10/admonition-angel
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Jan 4, 2024 19:11
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we need to wrangle all these nice dual-like and triome lands that standard/pioneer has gotten over the past couple years. way too easy to play 5 color piles. we need to put blood moon into standard. maybe magus of the moon as well.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:19
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Weird Pumpkin posted:My hottest MTG take is I think that a lot of modern answer cards (removal, etc) in mtg has gotten way too efficient, which has made the threats have to be insanely powerful to compensate for it My issues mostly are with enchantment based removal and there not being very efficient ways to remove them based on. My wish list wouldn't even be just removal of enchantments, but a big drawback to the enchantment owner. Something like "blow up target enchantment, enchantment owner takes damage based on its cmc". Right now in all formats there is no downside to running 4/5 colors and using leyline binding. What i am saying is print blood moon at 2 cmc.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:20
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Sickening posted:My issues mostly are with enchantment based removal and there not being very efficient ways to remove them based on. My wish list wouldn't even be just removal of enchantments, but a big drawback to the enchantment owner. Something like "blow up target enchantment, enchantment owner takes damage based on its cmc".  that's true
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Jan 4, 2024 19:29
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Strong Sauce posted:we need to wrangle all these nice dual-like and triome lands that standard/pioneer has gotten over the past couple years. way too easy to play 5 color piles.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:30
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3 CMC chandra that ticks down to create a blood moon emblem, ticks up to turn a land into a mountain
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Jan 4, 2024 19:35
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I think if you get rid of the 5-color value piles you're just left with a dozen different synergy-aggro decks that can snowball beyond all proportions by turn 3, especially on the play. and they'll still kind of be value piles, because so many aggressive creatures also now come with riders that generate card advantage immediately or over time. It's difficult for me to imagine that anyone has been intentional about the shape of the standard format since at least Eldraine.
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Jan 4, 2024 19:38
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ilmucche posted:That feels like it would break so many things by making removal all hosed up The real issue is that exile is both a super graveyard, as well as a temporary holding zone. Clearly we need a "blink" exile zone and a permanent exile zone.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:07
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Weird Pumpkin posted:3 CMC chandra that ticks down to create a blood moon emblem, ticks up to turn a land into a mountain A cheap blood moon emblem would be the most toxic card of all time lol, I'd love to play with it
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Jan 4, 2024 20:19
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Exile should cost extra over Destroy especially for Wraths, but currently you get it for free AND an extra upside which is absurd. You can't play any GY or sac or whatever deck because the hoser is the best maindeck solution, just randomly. Farewell was bad enough but that cost 6 at least. Sunfall is comical
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Jan 4, 2024 20:20
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fadam posted:What do you think the biggest benefit of the change is, Hoot? It allows them to keep spamming "exile" effects while letting them print creatures that get value for things other then ETB while keeping the elegant "dies" word
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Jan 4, 2024 20:20
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Simply Simon posted:Exile should cost extra over Destroy especially for Wraths, but currently you get it for free AND an extra upside which is absurd. You can't play any GY or sac or whatever deck because the hoser is the best maindeck solution, just randomly. Farewell was bad enough but that cost 6 at least. Sunfall is comical Yeah, Sunfall definitely doesn't feel like it should be exiling. I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have on the card's playability in Standard (can't think of many good dies triggers or GY cards, but I've been checked out since LCI), but it does make exiling feel less special when it's attached to already on rate removal cards. FWIW I feel like most of the good removal spells in modern still destroy, Prismatic and Binding are the only ones that exile? fadam fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 20:21
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Weird Pumpkin posted:My hottest MTG take is I think that a lot of modern answer cards (removal, etc) in mtg has gotten way too efficient, which has made the threats have to be insanely powerful to compensate for it Modern is the best format because the answers are more efficient than the threats. I vehemently disagree with this take (respectfully though).
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Jan 4, 2024 20:29
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Strong Sauce posted:we need to put blood moon into standard. Agreed. Also Wasteland. 
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Jan 4, 2024 20:33
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kung fu jive posted:Modern is the best format because the answers are more efficient than the threats. I vehemently disagree with this take (respectfully though). imo legacy is a better format than modern because the powerful universal answers also have extremely bonkers threats and powerful combo enablers to go with them but I mostly have an axe to grind with cards like the evoke elementals truth be told, and I still kinda think unholy heat is too efficient for how easy it is to turn on edit: but I totally get different viewpoints on this, I am, admittedly, a linear deck enjoyer at the end of the day Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 20:46
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I think 1-3 color decks having decent to great mana is fine and healthy for the game. I think decks having decent to great 4-5 color mana leads to balancing problems. The fact that they have put a lot of effort into 5 color being easier than ever before WHILE making extremely strong payoffs like domain instead of just the great payoff of "have access to all the best cards". You can play 5 color in every format for the high cost of ... checks notes... not doing anything turn 1.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:49
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Sickening posted:My issues mostly are with enchantment based removal and there not being very efficient ways to remove them based on. My wish list wouldn't even be just removal of enchantments, but a big drawback to the enchantment owner. Something like "blow up target enchantment, enchantment owner takes damage based on its cmc". I disagree, I think it's too easy to remove enchantments right now. they're supposed to be these things you invest a whole turn into that provide a big effect but removal for them is incidental on a lot of already great cards. do not punish all enchantments for the sins of leyline binding
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Jan 4, 2024 20:59
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fadam posted:Yeah, Sunfall definitely doesn't feel like it should be exiling. I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have on the card's playability in Standard (can't think of many good dies triggers or GY cards, but I've been checked out since LCI), but it does make exiling feel less special when it's attached to already on rate removal cards.
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Jan 4, 2024 21:03
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kalel posted:I disagree, I think it's too easy to remove enchantments right now. they're supposed to be these things you invest a whole turn into that provide a big effect but removal for them is incidental on a lot of already great cards. I feel like that is why it should scale. When you start talking about enchantments 4+ cmc you are talking about a very narrow amount of cards that are powerful without being very fair. Unfair punishments for unfair designed cards are fine imo. What cards do you believe make removing enchantments too easy at the moment?
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Jan 4, 2024 21:03
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boseiju, farewell, invoke despair, leyline binding, tranquil frillback, cathar commando, destroy evil, and outland liberator are cards that have all seen play in standard and several in other formats. get lost might start to see play over fateful absence. some are more efficient than others, some have a higher deck building cost than others, but all of them are prominent enough in their respective metas to make enchantments which don't provide immediate value a high risk. when phyrexian arena is unplayable in standard, I think there's a problem.
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Jan 4, 2024 21:15
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fadam posted:FWIW I feel like most of the good removal spells in modern still destroy, Prismatic and Binding are the only ones that exile? You forgot solitude, the best one And between solitude, binding, and some number of pending that's 10-12 slots in the deck, how much more removal are people playing?
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Jan 4, 2024 21:26
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Strong Sauce posted:we need to wrangle all these nice dual-like and triome lands that standard/pioneer has gotten over the past couple years. way too easy to play 5 color piles. timeless on arena has taught me how delightful casting a well-timed blood moon is definitely should be a part of all formats
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Jan 4, 2024 21:46
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imweasel09 posted:Historically 5 mana destroy sweepers have had a pretty rough go of it. Sunfall leaving stuff behind stuff as an upside isn't nothing but shutting off the graveyard and dies triggers is one of the only compelling reasons to be comfortable waiting that long. What dies and GY effects are played in Standard right now (genuine question, with Descend I'm assuming LCI added a lot)? In the Domain deck, Sunfall rocked because it's a safety valve that doubles as a wincon. I don't think there's ever been a 5 CMC wrath that leaves a big body behind before. HootTheOwl posted:You forgot solitude, the best one Tons, no? Bolt, F//I, Unholy Heat, Flame of Anor, Push, Bowmaster, Dead//Gone (lol). I think white having a niche as the exile removal colour is fine. Lots of decks still don't have a clean answer to dies triggers. fadam fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 21:50
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fadam posted:What dies and GY effects are played in Standard right now? In the Domain deck, Sunfall rocked because it's a safety valve that doubles as a wincon. I don't think there's ever been a 5 CMC wrath that leaves a big body behind before. quote:Tons, no? Bolt, F//I, Unholy Heat, Flame of Anor, Push, Bowmaster, Dead//Gone (lol). I think white having a niche as the exile removal colour is fine. Furthermore, it's not niche because every color has access to it, fetches and shocks give perfect mana every time and it's not like standard, without fetches, is immune considering how many posters above were mad about domain. Additionally, exile is not just White's thing any more. It's only their thing when it's unconditional
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Jan 4, 2024 21:58
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HootTheOwl posted:Time wipe Time Wipe is fair, but I think we can both agree it is a bit different than just making a big guy from out of nowhere. I might be misunderstanding your second point, but I don't think any decks are just splashing for white removal. And I think white having the unconditional exile niche is also fine lol. Are you even encountering that many white decks in the wild post beans ban? I've been a Timelss bugman for the past few weeks and wasn't playing much Modern before anway, but challenge results show mostly non-w decks. Don't have any actual recent anecdotal experience one way or the other tho. In a similar vein to Sunfall, I think Haywire Mite probably shouldn't be exiling either. I think that was probably added for limited in MoM with all the Unearth stuff. fadam fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 22:05
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It doesn't matter that heywire mite shouldn't, the point is that the exile removal isn't a premium anymore, and if it's going to be everywhere then "dies" is owed compensation
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Jan 4, 2024 22:15
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I guess my point is that it isn't everywhere tho, you're more likely to encounter decks without MD answers to dies than decks with.
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Jan 4, 2024 22:16
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"owed compensation" is funny as hell, lol they already have "when ~ leaves the battlefield"for cases where that's what they want
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Jan 4, 2024 22:19
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fadam posted:What dies and GY effects are played in Standard right now (genuine question, with Descend I'm assuming LCI added a lot)? In the Domain deck, Sunfall rocked because it's a safety valve that doubles as a wincon. I don't think there's ever been a 5 CMC wrath that leaves a big body behind before. You mean effects that are strong enough to survive in a sunfall meta and are also making sure nobody is dumb enough to switch their sunfalls for depopulate? Indestructible :Plaza of Heroes , Guardian, Hajar GY cards that survive sunfall and trespasser and skitter meta: Dennick, Valiant Veteran, Black Virtue, Takenuma, Skree, chick. Dies: Siege Veteran, Sangurine Evangelist, Vraan. Probably missed a lot I wasn't playing standard much this week so I haven't seen all of them today. I think Lci's gy stuff is more played in janky combo decks then actually competitive decks. It actually reduced gy decks because cavern of souls made ramp so much better then reanimator. Valorous stance also used to be around, it was mostly killed by the overpowered enchantments we are getting these days. VictualSquid fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 22:33
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fadam posted:I guess my point is that it isn't everywhere tho, you're more likely to encounter decks without MD answers to dies than decks with. Jabor posted:"owed compensation" is funny as hell, lol You were not ready to have the conversation (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 4, 2024 22:49
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VictualSquid posted:You mean effects that are strong enough to survive in a sunfall meta and are also making sure nobody is dumb enough to switch their sunfalls for depopulate? Interesting, ty.
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Jan 4, 2024 23:23
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Brimg back buried for exiled creatures, clearly.
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Jan 4, 2024 23:49
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