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SadisTech posted:Yet another person not actually reading what I had to say and replying by rote to something that they're used to reading. This thread hasn't changed in 5 years. I wasn't responding to you, i made one jab at your "i'm obviously tilted whenever i play" sheet but was responding to someone else. Good job tho.
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Jan 3, 2024 11:31
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BabyRyoga posted:Truth. If Blizzard is in as much of a corner as they appear to be (see the survey asking what price would be acceptable for a Diablo 4 DLC where $100 and $70 USD were floated with a straight face), we could see some real shake-up on the management end pretty soon.
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Jan 3, 2024 15:52
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i'm glad they increased the quick play leaver penalty since it actually has made games better on the other hand, the backfill bug has been around for weeks and now people are hesitant to leave because of it, so you get a lot of lovely 4v5 games also i'm sure the ceo sucked, but I don't think the game will suddenly get any better now that he's gone
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Jan 3, 2024 15:56
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Inept posted:i'm glad they increased the quick play leaver penalty since it actually has made games better This is what is most likely to get me to stop playing - I've had multiple 5v3 games in the past few days. Flashpoint is tiresome even with a "let them win" gentleman's agreement as you still have to run all over the place to win the bloody thing. At least in other modes you can read your phone while dancing on the payload or whatever
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Jan 3, 2024 16:56
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the backfill bug has been around since at least late October but nobody took it seriously enough then 
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Jan 4, 2024 00:52
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whats the bug?
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Jan 4, 2024 01:40
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backfill didn't work someone left and it was 5v4 the rest of the game until enough ppl left for it to get cancelled
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Jan 4, 2024 01:59
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i can think of one time i had a leaver and they werent replaced but it was 2am and i just assumed nobody was online to fill in, is this happening regularly to people?
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Jan 4, 2024 02:36
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What even causes the backfill bug? I had it happen to the enemy team over the weekend, but then when I played solo the next day my first game was me backfilling on Tank. Edit: comedyblissoption posted:ultimates are the huge snowball mechanic in overwatch. the team that wins the first fight has their powerful ultimates first and with proper usage can often setplay the second fight giving them even more ult charge overall for the game. Wasn’t sure if I should reply to this now that the discussion died down, but I was referencing how the early meta of OW1 developed into countering Ults with Ults. One of the complaints I hear about a lot are how Tank Ults are easily countered by a cooldown. In the past, Lucio, Zenyatta, and Mercy’s original Ultimate were defensive Ults that could help claw back a team fight by countering an enemy snowballing with Ultimates. Even if the team winning gets Ults first, the team losing will always get their Ult eventually and can use them to try and flip tempo back in their favor. But maybe we’ve just lost the art of using Ult combos when losing instead of hitting them as a panic button. Over the life of Overwatch, Ultimates have generally been nerfed and been made less frequent. Proven fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 14:05
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One time the bug occurred when I was grouping with some friends. When one of my friends' lost connection, they left the game but battle.net still considered them in the group. No idea if that's the actual cause or what, but yeah sometimes games just won't backfill.Proven posted:But maybe we’ve just lost the art of using Ult combos when losing instead of hitting them as a panic button. Over the life of Overwatch, Ultimates have generally been nerfed and been made less frequent. OW2 began letting you keep some ult charge on swaps and every new hero has a ridiculously powerful (and often visually noisy) ult, and if anything I still feel Ults are too strong and/or too frequent. OW2 is fundamentally momentum-based and while I don't think ult economy is the sole issue, it's definitely a contributing factor to snowballing and stomps. novaSphere fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 17:24
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ults snowballing the first fight into an expected win for the second fight is psychologically crushing at lower elos i think, making the snowballing even worse
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Jan 4, 2024 18:04
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saw this clip of blizz fixing a bad part of their ranking system and people complain that it's fixed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baI-tLPQB0g
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Jan 4, 2024 20:02
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Thought all right, I'll play some Competitive and see. So I committed to the queue and sat drumming my fingers. It wasn't as long as it has been, funnily - although I'm not prepared to say that's due to a higher population, it may very well be the case that they've loosened the matchmaking. Game 1: Win - it was an escort and we got it home with about 30 seconds banked, then they didn't quite cap 3rd. It was a fairly hard match but I thought ok, maybe things are looking up. Game 2: Loss - the tank slampicked Roadhog, played into Mauga/Ana and we had Zen/Mercy. No comms. Game 3: Loss - the tank slampicked Sigma and had 2 elims by the end of both attack/defense phases. Game 4: Loss - our tank tried Ram then Zarya then Sigma into Mauga and said he hadn't unlocked Mauga yet so couldn't play him. Enemy team included a 3-stack all named the same who were spamming a twitch channel by that name and saying that they were trying to go pro so please sub. Game 5: Loss - I was definitely the weak link on the team this match due to starting to tilt hard and I freely admit it. However playing at my best would not have changed the outcome. It was against the same stack and a dumb child also on their team was BMing hard and legitimately thinking he was hot poo poo, not realising that he was being carried aloft by his scrotum. I am not hugely inclined to continue with this experiment edit: the tank in game 3 didn't know that Echo's ult allowed her to get the ult of the duped hero and had a mid-game tantrum about that being unfair. He also did not know something else that was so obvious that it made me wonder if he was trolling but I think it was just genuinely a new player learning about the game. In Comp. SadisTech fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 14:10
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behold, perfect matchmaking
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Jan 5, 2024 14:17
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Overwatch is very momentum based and tilt-affected, agreed, but is the only comeback mechanism going to be seen as hero swapping?SadisTech posted:edit: the tank in game 3 didn't know that Echo's ult allowed her to get the ult of the duped hero and had a mid-game tantrum about that being unfair. He also did not know something else that was so obvious that it made me wonder if he was trolling but I think it was just genuinely a new player learning about the game. In Comp. This game has dozens of characters and it’s very possible to go for the dozens of hours it takes to unlock Comp as a new player and not know about a certain character’s ult, especially if they mostly played against other new players who never built up a copied character’s ult (that they even noticed, a lot is going on). It reminds me of Smash Bros in a lot of ways… I’m the one in my friend group with the near encyclopedia knowledge of character interactions in both games.
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Jan 5, 2024 16:29
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sadis your experience can be dramatically improved by just changing how you mentally approach the game and just team based games in general. the way you currently approach the game is common, but unhealthy. you seem overly focused on the flaws of your teammates. your expectations for random teammates on a public ladder need to go way way down. overwatch is an absurdly complicated game, and the expectation should be that people are going to make huge mistakes constantly or pursue dumb things stubbornly because that is how they enjoy the game. if you want to criticize something with a healthy mindset, look for ways to improve your own play. the goal should really be just to have fun and chill with some randos on the internets in a game, who are invariably going to constantly gently caress up.
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Jan 5, 2024 19:05
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comedyblissoption posted:
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Jan 5, 2024 19:26
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Father Wendigo posted:This would be a good bit more palatable if wins didn't drive BP progression and weren't necessary for unlocking the entire roster if you haven't been playing since 2 launched. I mean he's still right but yeah putting heroes behind the battle pass is pretty loving scummy
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Jan 5, 2024 20:27
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comedyblissoption posted:sadis your experience can be dramatically improved by just changing how you mentally approach the game and just team based games in general. Oh man I haven't heard this advice before! Yes, I get pissed off when team mates can't or won't perform. At said team mates, somewhat, sure. But what I get really pissed off at is a matchmaker that pushes consistent strings of this poo poo. Do you think it is reasonable for a matchmaker to serve up entirely uneven matches four times in a row? I'm not talking, you know, losses that could have gone either way. I'm talking about unsalvageable stomps. Do you think that is just ah well, normal variance? Because it seems to me that this cannot be working as intended. If people consistently pick bad heroes for the situation, if they consistently show that they are very new and unskilled players, if they behave in ways that lose rather than win games at their current SR, yes, they should drop. This applies to me too. Absolutely it does. But that then means that the matchmaker should be creating lobbies of people who are all doing stuff that has driven them to a lower SR and be roughly equal. That is not what the matchmaker in this game does. In both Quick Play - I mean, "it's just Quick Play", right, who cares - and in the Competitive ladder - this same scenario crops up! Constantly! Yes, the game is inherently snowbally. Yes, small errors compound. That is not what is happening here! These are matches that are hugely lopsided from the get-go, where one team simply doesn't know how to play the game and the other team does. It is really, really bad algorithmically. Sadly, there is no data on which to form an opinion as to why the matchmaker is doing this, so I can only speculate. All I can say is that there is no way that the same 3-stack (might have been a 4-stack, one of the other players on the opposing team was also the same from game 4 to 5) of very good coordinated players should have been matched into the teams that I was put on in the theoretically even matches occurring in the ranked ladder unless something is very, very messed up, either for intentional reasons such as lowering queue time (since that's what corporate data shows is one of the biggest hits to player retention, with fair matchmaking coming in a distant runner-up) or simple inability to do it better, especially in lower pop regions.
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Jan 6, 2024 00:52
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you deserve the lobbies that the matchmaker puts you into. no one is better than their lobbies and thinking that you are is an incredibly quick ticket to tilting and pissing off your entire team by being a dick. at the end of the day team games are more about how well you cooperate with you're going to say 'i've heard all that before  ' because yeah you have because it's the truth of competitive team games. imo if it is unfun and making you unhappy just play something else.
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jan 6, 2024 |
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Jan 6, 2024 01:01
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What if I'm mad because the matchmaker always puts me into lobbies where everyone is infinitely better than me and I consistently lose 1v1s with Mercys? The matchmaker and ranking system cannot be working properly because there is no way in hell these people are the bottom tier of Overwatch, which is what I deserve to be playing against.
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Jan 6, 2024 01:24
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Herstory Begins Now posted:at the end of the day team games are more about how well you cooperate with 5 randos than they are about how good you are individually. disagree. there are tons of uncooperative shitheads who are gm and lots of friendly helpful bronze people. your skill matters most.
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Jan 6, 2024 01:31
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Unless someone had an account boosted to gm there is literally no one in gm who isn't, one way or another, good at working with their team. they might have poo poo personality, it is overwatch after all, but they're effectively working with their team mates if they're in GM
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Jan 6, 2024 01:35
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Herstory Begins Now posted:you deserve the lobbies that the matchmaker puts you into. no one is better than their lobbies and thinking that you are is an incredibly quick ticket to tilting and pissing off your entire team by being a dick. STOP loving INTERPRETING WHAT I'M SAYING AS "I AM BETTER THAN THIS AND BEING HELD BACK" That is NOT THE MESSAGE. Look at this string of loving posts literally mocking me as if that's what I'm trying to claim! Let's say that I agree, 100%, that I am a total piece of poo poo at this game. That SUPPORTS my argument that the matches that are being created are UNBALANCED AS gently caress. IF I SUCK AND TEAM MATES SUCK WHY AGAINST GOOD COORDINATED TEAMS CONSISTENTLY Do you understand this question
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Jan 6, 2024 02:49
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Inept posted:disagree. there are tons of uncooperative shitheads who are gm and lots of friendly helpful bronze people. your skill matters most. Not really no. Even the saltiest edgelord types are helpful to others on the team while climbing. The "selfish" support that gets tons of picks and damage will still also heal people to the point that they won't die. The tanks will still push people around and make space for their team. They just also grumble about it, and they will not listen to bad advice telling them to heal more than is necessary, dive too far as a tank etc.
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Jan 6, 2024 03:53
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I think people also forget that, unfortunately, there's literally no way to know if your teams are actually evenly matched or not. Sometimes someone's letting their friend/sibling play on their account. Sometimes people are drunk or high and playing well below their actual skill. Sometimes people play heroes they arent as familiar with. Sometimes people just want to meme and don't actually care about playing especially well in that match. Etc. etc. There's no way for a matchmaking system to account for things like this. Even with a truly perfect system that puts the most evenly matched teams together will still have blowout matches.
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Jan 6, 2024 06:01
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just imagine thinking that the OW team has created a perfect matchmaking system, a shining gem that will never be bested. truly, matchmaking can never fail, only be failed.
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Jan 6, 2024 09:22
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just play as a 3-stack and stomp on all the uncoordinated randos queuing up solo
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Jan 6, 2024 09:25
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:I think people also forget that, unfortunately, there's literally no way to know if your teams are actually evenly matched or not. Sometimes someone's letting their friend/sibling play on their account. Sometimes people are drunk or high and playing well below their actual skill. Sometimes people play heroes they arent as familiar with. Sometimes people just want to meme and don't actually care about playing especially well in that match. Etc. etc. Literally nobody is asking for the matchmaker to be perfect. Only to not be consistently worse that it was in OW1/is in other games.
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Jan 6, 2024 09:34
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Jabor posted:just play as a 3-stack and stomp on all the uncoordinated randos queuing up solo 2 stack seems more optimal to me, you get 3 people together and the odds of being matched against a 5 stack seem to get way better, at least in qp. To give some credit to the matchmaking it seems like it trys a lot harder to match 5 stacks against each other in comp,
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Jan 6, 2024 10:45
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Jack Trades posted:Literally nobody is asking for the matchmaker to be perfect. the point is that anecdotal "here's how unbalanced my last 5 games were, what a lovely system" isn't helpful at all because without any sort of public MMR or SR there's no way to know if the games were actually unbalanced or if the matchmaker did its job flawlessly and the people were just loving around
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Jan 6, 2024 14:41
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SadisTech posted:STOP loving INTERPRETING WHAT I'M SAYING AS "I AM BETTER THAN THIS AND BEING HELD BACK" They're not good and co-ordinated. Every time you get dunked on you just assume its because they are. I can guarantee you that they're not. The reason people mock you for "i'm better than this" is because all your posts mock other people as if you're better than them. "My teammates suck". Oh, and you don't? Lol. dogstile fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jan 6, 2024 |
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Jan 6, 2024 14:45
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:the point is that anecdotal "here's how unbalanced my last 5 games were, what a lovely system" isn't helpful at all because without any sort of public MMR or SR there's no way to know if the games were actually unbalanced or if the matchmaker did its job flawlessly and the people were just loving around It's almost like there's a reason why Blizzard decided to hide all the information that could possibly be used to determine accuracy of the matchmaker in OW2.
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Jan 6, 2024 15:22
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dogstile posted:They're not good and co-ordinated. Every time you get dunked on you just assume its because they are. I can guarantee you that they're not. I am very loving open about where I sit. Man, if you don't think it is incredibly visible and obvious when you have a team of nuffies on one side or the other, if you are genuinely claiming that it's impossible to tell when you have people playing very, very badly, I don't know what to tell you - I don't think we're playing the same game. I gently caress up a lot, I make errors of positioning, ult and ability timing, my aim is mid, I know this and I don't expect that my team mates have to be better than this. I do expect that the lobby should be made of people who are roughly about the same as me, give or take. The lobbies are wildly inconsistent. Sometimes, the tank on my team is a Doom on 35 - 2 who we haven't seen all match because he's been off killing them while we vaguely try to be useful by sitting around a campfire on the objective. Sometimes, the tank on my team is a Hog slampick who accidentally repeatedly walks into the well on Ilios while trying to position for hooks. These things are noticeable. "All my posts" mock other people? I am reporting what happened in the games I've played very literally. The sheet I've posted tracked around 50% W and L. The Ws called out unfair lobbies and stomps as much as the Ls did. The Ls carried more detail about where the performance gaps were because they were more visible. And I called out my own deficiencies in there a fair bit. I acknowledged fair losses when they happened. THEY DON'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN AS THEY SHOULD. The lobbies served up are poorly matchmade, W or L, most of the time. It is unfortunate that venturing into Comp for 5 games resulting in the games breaking the way they did but you are telling me that I'm making poo poo up that was blatantly obvious. gently caress, I'd post the replay codes if I thought anyone gave enough of a poo poo to look at them. Did I do well in those games? No. Was I the factor making them losses? No, god no, you can see *exactly* was was wrong in each one and it was the matchmaking giving very, very bad quality lopsided games. I don't *blame* the players on either team but calling a spade a spade is loving fair enough.
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Jan 6, 2024 16:04
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play ow2 with a chill mindset and have fun, this game sucks for any remote sort of competitive play
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Jan 6, 2024 16:12
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SadisTech posted:The sheet I've posted tracked around 50% W and L. Sounds like a pretty good matchmaking system all things considered
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Jan 6, 2024 16:43
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Sounds like a pretty good matchmaking system all things considered I was drat certain that someone was going to swing and miss with this one. The issue isn't win rate and hasn't ever been win rate, the issue is match quality. If you refer to my previous posts you'll see that my complaint was that the matchmaking was providing long strings of really really easy and really really hard imbalanced lobbies which were essentially algorithmically pushing me towards 50/50. Stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, get stomped, get stomped, get stomped, get stomped, get stomped, ad nauseum. Not natural variability, too distinct a pattern, not enough randomness (the matches that didn't conform to this tended to be ones where there was a clear outlier in performance one way or the other - throwers, successive leavers with no backfill, etc). E: if I was to subject myself to more Comp games it would not surprise me at all to see this same thing occur off the back of this series of losses. I should probably test that, to be honest.
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Jan 6, 2024 17:49
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SadisTech posted:I was drat certain that someone was going to swing and miss with this one. The issue isn't win rate and hasn't ever been win rate, the issue is match quality. If you refer to my previous posts you'll see that my complaint was that the matchmaking was providing long strings of really really easy and really really hard imbalanced lobbies which were essentially algorithmically pushing me towards 50/50. Bro. Any online multiplayer game is swingy and almost all matches are stomps. It's not an OW thing. Matches are stomps because the first successful engagement is generally predictable of match Outcome, and most matches will end up going to who wins the first fight. Each subsequent one is more likely to be won by the ones who won before it. The solution would either be to make matches that simply last one fight (basically counterstrike), or deal with matches that have a predictable outcome after the first one or two engagements (every other game).
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Jan 6, 2024 19:45
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toadee posted:Bro. Any online multiplayer game is swingy and almost all matches are stomps. It's not an OW thing. Matches are stomps because the first successful engagement is generally predictable of match Outcome, and most matches will end up going to who wins the first fight. Each subsequent one is more likely to be won by the ones who won before it. The solution would either be to make matches that simply last one fight (basically counterstrike), or deal with matches that have a predictable outcome after the first one or two engagements (every other game). That's funny, because it's the exact opposite of what the people were complaining about in OW1.
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Jan 6, 2024 20:14
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Jack Trades posted:That's funny, because it's the exact opposite of what the people were complaining about in OW1. It’s the worst matchmaker of any game I’ve ever played and folks catching strays for it
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