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Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
Reading these discussions where I get like these confirmations of "Yeah this does kinda not work or sucks for players/DMs" I'm almost tempted to make my own TTRPG system :D

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Ominous Jazz
Jun 15, 2011

Big D is chillin' over here
Wasteland style
No ones gonna be mad at you. You can just do it and post about it

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

theironjef posted:

It's best to abstract it all. I was just thinking about leveling while playing BG3, how you pick up Karlach after she's spent literal years battling demons in the hells, is so altered by the experience that she barely has any unscarred skin, and is regarded as a bad rear end and dangerous warrior. But like you get her in your party, have her help kill five goblins, and suddenly she's like "wait, I think I can access the spirit of the great bear now."

Same with Wyll being so famous that people know his stupid nickname. I figure you just have to roll with it.

In BG3 all the companions have been explicitly powered down by the tadpole. Wyll comments how before that he was able to summon demons and such.

YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 6, 2024

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE
Karlach was also supercharged in the Hells by a device that is now failing. You can stop it from breaking down completely but you only have tiny amounts of something vaguely like the fuel Zariel was pumping into her during her battles.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
I gotta say running Rime I hate how the quests are described, unless you read them backwards and forwards you'll easily miss pertinent information, also a lot of the quests lack goddamn context! I have no idea for some of them why they're supposed to be there, what they should be doing, or in what order half the time.

HellCopter
Feb 9, 2012
College Slice
Most of the time the explanation is "they heard a rumor (from the rumor table) that there was something cool over there". They mostly have nothing to do with the Eternal Rime or anything else going on. The Eternal Rime doesn't make a great ticking clock...I told my players to make characters that explicitly want to adventure for adventure's sake otherwise they'd never bumble into half of these.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Goddamnit. Wizards now openly using AI in promos:

https://www.facebook.com/100064363766598/posts/pfbid02CbN1eTVDKJisKcEPCuWBsDBy6R1qPz7kihcC4ZDNryPe9YXVWjJqQKMXsxsUYfznl/

Can't see the comments from that link but it's all people rinsing them for using AI, apart from one guy saying it's fine because they don't use AI on the cards.

Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jan 7, 2024

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Goddamnit. Wizards now openly using AI in promos:

https://www.facebook.com/100064363766598/posts/pfbid02CbN1eTVDKJisKcEPCuWBsDBy6R1qPz7kihcC4ZDNryPe9YXVWjJqQKMXsxsUYfznl/

Can't see the comments from that link but it's all people rinsing them for using AI, apart from one guy saying it's fine because they don't use AI on the cards.

Yup Dave Rapoza announced he's not working with WotC moving forward after this

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Holy poo poo that's not even the only one.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/w...o/1100-6520153/

The fb promo is a different image, but either its a remarkably consistent photorealist they've comissioned, or that's loving AI.

neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012



Valentin posted:

you have successfully identified the issue that hexblade is very good, yeah. but that's not what I'm talking about.

the problem is that paladin levels 7-11 (maybe 8-11 if you have a decent subclass feature) are just a wasteland. man yeah I'd love to cast aura of vitality and spirit shroud. that owns so hard. I'd love to get a minor math tweak worth ~2.5 damage per round. gently caress that poo poo owns. I'd way rather have that than the ability to shoot people from 120 feet away forever, a piece of added versatility I can't acquire from basically anywhere else in the game with way, way bigger implications for how I can play on a round to round basis

e: and the only reason I'm not extending to 12 is because it has an ASI, the only cudgel they could find to encourage singleclassing

I can't agree with this at all.
  • Paladin 7: Subclass feature. These shouldn't be boring although Devotion's charm immunity 10' radius is terrible.
  • Paladin 8: ASI. If Paladin 12 is fine then so is this.
  • Paladin 9: Third level spells. I mean Revivify is on that list. Third level spells is a non-trivial bonus.
  • Paladin 10: Aura of Courage. Yeah, you got me. This is a boring level.
  • Paladin 11: Improved Divine Smite. Slightly misleading name for +1d8 damage per attack
There's only one actually bad level in the set. If you want a wasteland look at the barbarian (level 11 of course being nowhere near as strong as it looks at first glance) or the monk (which is entirely situational in that range) and throw level 13 in for both of them.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Holy poo poo that's not even the only one.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/w...o/1100-6520153/

The fb promo is a different image, but either its a remarkably consistent photorealist they've comissioned, or that's loving AI.

What they're doing is having people retouch AI so they can claim the final image is by an artist.

They also already fired all their art people so they've committed to this approach.

Some Hasbro exec thinks he's being brilliant

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

It's just so obvious though. Ok, getting an artist to retouch things like extra teeth and fingers might work if the entire style of the piece wasn't so obviously AI. The level of reality denial is almost Kafkaesque.

Yusin
Mar 4, 2021

They posted a follow up on that.

https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1744056808254173447

They just a couple weeks ago said they were anti ai art, so I am inclined to think they are just bad at a spotting it.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Can you screenshot the rest of the thread? I'm curious what their excuse is, but can't see replies without being signed in.

To not have spotted that it was AI, you would have had to have basically never seen an AI image in your life.

Yusin
Mar 4, 2021

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
"overall image"
"final product"

Empty Sandwich
Apr 22, 2008

goatse mugs
Assembled in the US from AI parts.

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

I'm making my backup character for Tomb and I went with an Eldritch Knight/War Wizard centaur, but uhhhh I just realized that you can't go sword and board and still have a hand free for somatic casting. Does this subclass straight up not work if you don't take the war magic feat?

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.
Make a Thri-kreen. They have four arms!

To answer your question though, War Caster feat is effectively required to run a sword and board EK. Your DM might be open to using a bound weapon as an Arcane Focus for Wizard spell slots, but the EK slots will definitely require a free hand if you don't take the feat.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

?????????
?

It's why you see a lot of EKs take Defense fighting style over Dueling, yes. Until you get War Caster you're probably 2-handing a Longsword (or other Versatile weapon) and taking one hand off it to cast spells.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
Finishing up the current story arc in the game I'm a player in as the NPC as I'm kinda having more fun with them. :shobon:


HellCopter posted:

Most of the time the explanation is "they heard a rumor (from the rumor table) that there was something cool over there". They mostly have nothing to do with the Eternal Rime or anything else going on. The Eternal Rime doesn't make a great ticking clock...I told my players to make characters that explicitly want to adventure for adventure's sake otherwise they'd never bumble into half of these.

Yeah that's been its own challenge, what I've done is just have the quests come to them, using previous NPCs they've met, go find them wherever they are whenever they complete a encounter/quest to give them the next quest because they don't like going to the towns because the goods and services are too expensive or services not super useful or in availability.

My complaint though is the way stuff is kinda scattered around the book its hard to know what the proper flow of a quest is. Angajuk's Bell/Whale Oil Acquisition is a good example. It kinda seems like the intended sequence here is the players either hear about the whale, or a merchant asks for help seeking the whale; and learn that the whale can move them around the ice flows safely if they can earn its trust.

The text for Whale Oil Acquisition could probably be more explicit that the DM should see the section "Earning Angajuk's trust" in the Angajuk's Bell section; the very confusing part is that it talks very matter of factly about how the whale can bring the players basically straight to Auril's Island but I don't have context as to whether
this is something they're supposed to know about now, or something they learn about later and come back to ask the whale about?

Rereading it now the above sequence seems to make sense to me, they randomly get one or two quests to encounter the whale, learn the whale can bring them places, get a small reward and then come back later when they're looking for a way of getting to the island of misfit ice gods.

But reading them isolated from each other the first time I think it doesn't do a good job in providing enough context of how the quest might fit in with the broader MSQ,
and what information is important for how to convey the adventure to the players in a given moment of the campaign.

Other quests are a little confusing, I get it needs to be open ended enough to adapt to the players choices, but like, in Id Ascendent, why would the players help the Gnome Ceremorphs? Under the right circumstances I assume they're pleasant enough but the book doesn't seem to well establish a good reason for why the players would take the peaceful option here or save the squidlings.

I did a Pinky and the Brain (heh) thing where they are actually trying to take over the Multiverse! But crashed as a result of their latest scheme failing, and basically had it play out like Aliens where a legally distinct Xenomorph (reflavoured slaad) escapes to complicate retrieving the psi crystals (which I decided were randomly lost throughout the ship instead of making them go to another town days away or in a nearby cave for some convenient reason). (And the party was sent there to investigate by a elf scholar whose ability to scry was being jammed by the ships distress signal)

I gave them a Warforged NPC as a companion as a reward in addition to the regular rewards, he has a laser arm canon (I adapted the flesh golem to be more like a sentient battle droid).

The way the quest seemed structured it seemed like the party would stumble onto a combat encounter and not even really have any reason to talk to them, so I just moved the npcs to the bridge and has a spooky Aliens movie vibe going instead as they explore an empty and dark alien ship with the warning lights blinking from the consoles, etc; and this seemed to work out fine.

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Raenir Salazar posted:


Other quests are a little confusing, I get it needs to be open ended enough to adapt to the players choices, but like, in Id Ascendent, why would the players help the Gnome Ceremorphs? Under the right circumstances I assume they're pleasant enough but the book doesn't seem to well establish a good reason for why the players would take the peaceful option here or save the squidlings.


I believe as-written (or at least what happened when I played) is that there are a bunch of flesh golems marauding about and they can probably murder the poo poo out of you if you refuse to help them take off. We were only level 5 or 6 and realized we couldn't take the entire ship on, so we just gave them the psi crystal and left.

Empty Sandwich
Apr 22, 2008

goatse mugs

this all sounds loving magical

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

I'm playing my first ever character (Half-Orc Barbarian) and I just reached level 3 and I need to choose a path.

My backstory is that I was raised by adoptive human parents, rich merchants living in a large city., but then I contracted lycanthropy and became a were-boar and though I was eventually cured my condition bankrupted my family and brought out my Orcish features, which were formerly minimal causing me to no longer to be able to pass for human. So the whole barbarian thing is me trying to overcompensate for my lack of knowledge about my Orcish heritage.

Thematically I feel like Totem Warrior or Path of the Beast might be the best fits for that background. As maybe the beast within still having some presence.

Totem Warrior sounds pretty useful, especially Bear which seemingly makes me hardier and since I'm taking most of the beatings that could come in handy and the Eagle Sight at level 6 sounds like it could be very useful if I make it that far.

Beast Path seems like it could give me a lot more damage output what with the bite or the barbed tail but the level 6 stuff sounds like it has less utility compared to Totem Warrior.

Any of you old veterans have insight into which path might be more useful and/or fun?


I should probably wait to decide depending on the rest of the party*. Especially to see what Oath the Paladin selects so I can pick something that works well with whatever he does.







*There's three of us. This is the first campaign for all of us. The other two are a Half-Elf Paladin and a Dwarf Warlock. We're currently a decent way into Sunless Citidel having just had dinner with some Hob-Goblins that and are about to descend into a big hole in the ground that might contain evil plants where we have secured a Hob-Goblin escort on the condition that we give them our weapons until we reach our destination.

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


FreudianSlippers posted:

I'm playing my first ever character (Half-Orc Barbarian) and I just reached level 3 and I need to choose a path.

Thematically I feel like Totem Warrior or Path of the Beast might be the best fits for that background. As maybe the beast within still having some presence.

Mechanically speaking, and having played a totem warrior barbarian, bear totem is busted in half (to the point they have fixed it in dnd 5.5 to tone it down). Couple Great Weapon Master Feat with Reckless attack (and a greataxe, which is slightly better than a greatsword, due to how crits work), and you have a very good melee fighter package at level 4. Just remember that you are basically playing defence with your hit points, not your armor class. You hit things like an absolute truck though.

Consider the ever popular 2 level dip in fighter for action surge, and you got a real stew cookin'.

nelson
Apr 12, 2009
College Slice

Legit Businessman posted:

Couple Great Weapon Master Feat with Reckless attack (and a greataxe, which is slightly better than a greatsword, due to how crits work), and you have a very good melee fighter package at level 4.

Consider the ever popular 2 level dip in fighter for action surge, and you got a real stew cookin'.

Or a third level of fighter for Champion’s improved crit-range. It synergies so well with GWM and reckless.

Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.
drat, D&D seems to sets up all sorts of "feels bad" situations. Everything just feels so swingy in the worst ways. Use a healing spell or potion and roll the minimum. Set up a big turn with my fighter (which is its own boring rear end problem*) where I have 5 attacks and just miss all of them, completely wasting my action surge that I only get one of.


I was hoping battle master would give the fighter some more interesting options, but nope. And to add insult to injury turns out trip is just a bad ability. That I can't get rid of until I hit level 7 or 8. I feel like the battle master stuff should have just been the default class feature for fighters.

Democratic Pirate
Feb 17, 2010

Demon_Corsair posted:

drat, D&D seems to sets up all sorts of "feels bad" situations. Everything just feels so swingy in the worst ways. Use a healing spell or potion and roll the minimum.

I like the rule idea that self-applied health potions are roll for points as a bonus action or guaranteed maximum points if drank as an action. Idea being a bonus action is quickly chugging the potion and spilling some while a full action makes you careful enough to get the full benefit.

Unrelated - my PC is an oath of vengeance Paladin that’s not Reacher, but not NOT Reacher…

Roach Warehouse
Nov 1, 2010


I recently completed an all-Unearthed Arcana is available campaign, and I used the playtest battlemaster rule that let me swap a single maneuver at long rest, and honestly, don’t think I could ever go back.

Even though I kept the same ones like 75% of the time, just having that flexibility when I though lt a particular situation might be coming up made the class so much more interesting.

Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

Roach Warehouse posted:

I recently completed an all-Unearthed Arcana is available campaign, and I used the playtest battlemaster rule that let me swap a single maneuver at long rest, and honestly, don’t think I could ever go back.

Even though I kept the same ones like 75% of the time, just having that flexibility when I though lt a particular situation might be coming up made the class so much more interesting.

That makes way more sense. Hell, even treat it like spells and you can only change them at level ups makes a kind of sense. But to only allow changes on a level up when you get new maneuvers is baffling.

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.
Trip Attack is bad? It adds damage to a confirmed hit and, if they fail the STR save, you have advantage on thr prone target with all melee attacks. That's really quite good. It also does not require it be a melee weapon attacks so if you're slower than your Monk or Barbarian you can take pot shots with a bow or daggers to give them advantage.

My favorite combo was to Trip on attack 1 and the Commander's Strike our GWF Barbarian with attack 2.

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Ask your DM, anyone that's not an rear end in a top hat is going to let you switch your maneuver if you're dissatisfied with it. Or show them the UA and talk them into doing the 5.5e thing a few months early.

Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

Zurreco posted:

Trip Attack is bad? It adds damage to a confirmed hit and, if they fail the STR save, you have advantage on thr prone target with all melee attacks. That's really quite good. It also does not require it be a melee weapon attacks so if you're slower than your Monk or Barbarian you can take pot shots with a bow or daggers to give them advantage.

My favorite combo was to Trip on attack 1 and the Commander's Strike our GWF Barbarian with attack 2.

It depends entirely on initiative order. Now that I have two attacks, I can get advantage on my second attack, but the majority of the time they just stand up before anyone else can get an attack in. And since standing up only costs a bit of movement, there is no real penalty there either.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Speaking of maneuvers, what are the best early maneuvers to take with an Archery Style Battlemaster? Precision Attack is pretty much a lock, and I think the mental image of using Pushing Attack with a ranged weapon would be hilarious. But I'm also considering Maneuvering Attack or Goading Attack as ways to help teammates out (although I guess Menacing Attack is probably better in every way than Goading attack - except for things immune to fear, but those are likely rare).

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.
If you are at range, helping out your melee martial should be a priority. Goading Attack and Disarming Strike are great for helping your allies. Maneuvering Attack is a good way to help your allies help you. If you more of a DPS archer Fighter then anything that adds SD to your damage roll is fine.

Demon_Corsair posted:

It depends entirely on initiative order. Now that I have two attacks, I can get advantage on my second attack, but the majority of the time they just stand up before anyone else can get an attack in. And since standing up only costs a bit of movement, there is no real penalty there either.

You can always opt to go later in the turn order for a round. I guess Trip Attack really shines if you have a team composition that can mill attacks on a prone target. I won't try to convince you that it's a great skill but it is definitely not bad and it will scale better as you get more attacks/better weapons.

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Speaking of maneuvers, what are the best early maneuvers to take with an Archery Style Battlemaster? Precision Attack is pretty much a lock, and I think the mental image of using Pushing Attack with a ranged weapon would be hilarious. But I'm also considering Maneuvering Attack or Goading Attack as ways to help teammates out (although I guess Menacing Attack is probably better in every way than Goading attack - except for things immune to fear, but those are likely rare).

I'm running a gloomstalker/battlemaster fighter right now, and menacing attack is #1 best fighter spell.

Then it sort of falls off of a cliff for archers.

Commanding Strike is great if you have a rogue in the party. Ambush is good if you're the parties scout, and parry is a decent defensive option. Precision attack is also very good, especially if you're using the sharpshooter feat.

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013

Fallen Rib

Zurreco posted:

You can always opt to go later in the turn order for a round.

No you can't? Unless you mean you can ready one (1) attack, which will also take your reaction. The playtest did allow you to delay your initiative, but that was almost ten years ago now. Also that permanently lowered ypur initiative, not just for a round.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
All right, so I'm leaning towards Precision Attack, Menacing Attack and either Maneuvering Attack or Pushing Attack (just because I think it's fun). I don't know what the party composition will be, Session 0 (Lost Mines of Phandelver) is tonight. We will be starting at level 1, though, so I won't have the maneuvers just yet.

I had been thinking of making the race be Stout Halfling which would let me start out with 16 DEX and 16 CON using standard point-buy. That does have the tradeoff of being ineffective with Heavy weapons, which means Shortbow or Light Crossbow (or Hand Crossbow, but that's worse than a Shortbow without two of them AND Crossbow expert). So I suppose I should pick a different race. I guess.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jan 10, 2024

Hra Mormo
Mar 6, 2008

The Internet Man
Crossbow Expert is actually used with a single Hand Crossbow. Nowhere does it say the Hand Crossbow used for the bonus attack can't be a Hand Crossbow you used to make the original attack with. Plus, if you did actually have two of them, you would not have the free hand required for reloading.

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Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Hra Mormo posted:

Crossbow Expert is actually used with a single Hand Crossbow. Nowhere does it say the Hand Crossbow used for the bonus attack can't be a Hand Crossbow you used to make the original attack with. Plus, if you did actually have two of them, you would not have the free hand required for reloading.

I really need to get four hand crossbows for my thri kreen rogue

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