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The beginning starts with some talk about the Academy, and then her trials to be accepted. I have another scene written out where her first assignment doesn't go well, and I can use that as a reason the school assigns her a proctor and they go on a quest. More experience learning "in the field," etc. I think I just have to flesh things out a bit. The Academy's going to be a quest hub instead of a daily school schedule like Harry Potter. They'll go back there, and there's drama in the town around where the school is, but I don't intend to have the MC doing Potions Class or anything. Waffle! fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 18:47
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I've started keeping a "revisions" book, a small notebook separate from my "ideas" notebook in which I write down notes for things I need to add to previous scenes, and ideas or references which have been changed or taken out which will need to be removed in previous scenes. That seems like an okay way to keep track of things which change over the course of writing.Whirling posted:I keep rewriting the intro to something that I feel like I shouldn't be taking so seriously. I'm not doing this for money or anything, but I think the thing is that I want to gain experience with writing in general and I feel like every time I come back, I feel like something's lacking: the story's third person narration doesn't have a voice that stands out, its too edgy or alternatively its too silly, I'm overemphasizing some things and not being clear on others, etc. I've been tinkering with this for weeks and I should just push beyond this and come back to edit things when I have a few more chapters down, right? I feel like the intro is the most important part of the story in my mind, but that's probably an oversimplification. I tinker with openings a lot, but that's mostly because I had/have a habit of starting my stories too close to the inciting incident and need to back up to show the protagonist's "normal life" before things go wrong. Your opening probably does need tweaking. Mine does too. You're probably not going to truly find the voice until you've spent some time writing more of the story. Some of the things you write will feel wrong, and you'll immediately re-write them, and that's okay, because learning what the voice and character isn't is still helpful. The great thing about novels is that you are able to go back and change it before anyone sees it. So my advice is this: Make some notes about what you think is wrong with the opening or what you think it needs, and move on for anything you don't have an immediate fix for. If later on you get ideas on how to fix it, by all means go back and try those ideas out, or at least take notes about the fix.
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Dec 2, 2023 01:24
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I got my very first short story accepted for publication and it will be in a print mag in May!  Whirling posted:I keep rewriting the intro to something that I feel like I shouldn't be taking so seriously. I'm not doing this for money or anything, but I think the thing is that I want to gain experience with writing in general and I feel like every time I come back, I feel like something's lacking: the story's third person narration doesn't have a voice that stands out, its too edgy or alternatively its too silly, I'm overemphasizing some things and not being clear on others, etc. I've been tinkering with this for weeks and I should just push beyond this and come back to edit things when I have a few more chapters down, right? I feel like the intro is the most important part of the story in my mind, but that's probably an oversimplification. It's common advice to just keep writing, but I'll chime in with some different thoughts on the voice part. If the issue is the plot or what happens when, don't worry about it, keep writing, that will almost definitely change. If it's the voice, then I have never found that I 'find' a voice by writing more. 'Too silly' was definitely something I used to run into a lot and what happened if I kept writing wasn't that the voice became less silly but that the story became sillier to match the voice. This is from a short story perspective but more often than not I'll rewrite 2 pages (usually the first two, sometimes a big scene I know will happen) repeatedly until I get it right and am excited about the tone/mood/voice. Sometimes I never find it and don't finish the story but I figure if I can't make 1k words work, how am I going to make 3-10k words work? The important part is to identify what about it makes it feel too edgy or too silly or whatever. Then try to write without that. Sometimes this becomes a literal rules list for me... 1. Never more than 2 consecutive sentences of interiority, 2. Almost always directly reference one of the protagonist's senses when describing something 3. No direct feeling statements... etc. Then a different story might do the the complete opposite.
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Dec 2, 2023 18:42
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Yoooo, congratulations!
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Dec 2, 2023 22:57
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I got accepted for a novel writing masters course, so I guess I'm writing a novel next year! Ty thunderdome
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Dec 2, 2023 23:13
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Hey congrats both of you, that's awesome!! Celebrate (imperative)
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Dec 2, 2023 23:29
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Also congrats to you, Seb!
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Dec 3, 2023 00:29
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I did a successful nanowrimo month last month, and ended with >100k words by the end of the month. It was my second time completing a nanowrimo goal, but the first was nearly a decade ago (and the output was terrible, terrible fanfiction). Unfortunately, I'll admit: the story itself was light on actual plot (i did not approach "bland person goes to magic university" very effectively), with lackluster character development for the main character. I was so timid about putting them into actual conflict situations, like oh no i can't hurt my uwu smol bean. A couple of side characters had good development and interesting personalities, and the world building overall was strong. In light of that, I spent a couple days working out a legitimate plot, with goals and climax and everything, and those side characters are now the main characters! There's still magic university, but it's more of a background element. I thought I'd run out of steam halfway through last month, but I have a decent intro and a couple chapters written on the new story, and I'm still excited to see this through. I feel a little frustrated that I spent so much time and effort on a story that didn't work, but it was still a lot of fun to write. If nothing else, I know now that I can bang out words pretty quickly!
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Dec 3, 2023 08:25
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Congrats! I only hit 25k words during my NaNoWriMo attempt but am going to finish out this WIP because I conversely really like where my attempt was going
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Dec 3, 2023 16:06
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I'm having trouble building up a character. I've used a little crowd chatter to mention at his entrance, then the rest of the scene to show how he fights with a sword. He has a reputation as being unlucky for the students he tutors, as they all seem to get injured in an accident or something. I don't want to keep reusing murmurs in the crowd to mention this guy, and I don't want him explaining everything away to his new charge the MC either.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:07
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My immediate thought is that you might want to have one of those previously injured characters come up to your MC and warn them or something like that. Or maybe the crowd can fall silent watching this character fight and the MC, confused, can ask the character why. Exposition isn't necessarily a dirty word, there's perfectly natural ways to sneak it in. Arist fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 20:19
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change my name posted:Congrats! I only hit 25k words during my NaNoWriMo attempt but am going to finish out this WIP because I conversely really like where my attempt was going Update on this, ended up at 40K on 12/31 and am still pushing ahead, it's crazy how much momentum you can build by just putting down a few words every day. I'll likely be finished with this draft by March at the latest. Compare that to the 40K words I put into my fantasy novel from January through October of last year and it's clear how much of a role enthusiasm for your story plays a part in the process.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:25
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Waffle! posted:I'm having trouble building up a character. I've used a little crowd chatter to mention at his entrance, then the rest of the scene to show how he fights with a sword. He has a reputation as being unlucky for the students he tutors, as they all seem to get injured in an accident or something. I don't want to keep reusing murmurs in the crowd to mention this guy, and I don't want him explaining everything away to his new charge the MC either. With no context this is a bit hard to come up with a solid answer. Sounds like Character is in some kind of arena? And you need this scene to explain his students get injured? If this is the case you might need to be expository, Arist has some good examples below. You could try showing it, with the arena fight being a sword fighting class, or really any class, and the students in question getting accidentally hurt. As I said before, with no context, bit hard to give a good answer.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:30
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sometimes it's ok to just have people explain it, and when it's someone's reputation then it makes perfect sense to do it that way.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:36
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yeah, if he's got a reputation then someone else can just tell your MC "oh man you don't know about Mr All-His-Students-Get-Injured? Ha, good luck!"
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Jan 5, 2024 04:56
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hi thread. I did nanowrimo 2 years in a row to get 60,000+ words into a first draft. currently hacking and slashing and have a few loose threads left. trying to give myself some grace because self pub spaces online are #hustle central. would love to publish in february and then start on #2.
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Jan 5, 2024 05:09
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I'm writing a short piece that flits from point of view to point of view so that no individual is given narrative priority. 200-300 words about one character, then on to another. Thing is that I'm not sure what to compare it to for my writing group. I can name television series and novels whose structures are inspiring me, but I want to be able to point them to short stories and novellas. I'm sure I've read things that resemble what I'm writing, but I can't recall any of them immediately. Edit: Well, there are two stories I can put a name to, but I don't want to have to explain Warhammer 40K to my group.
FPyat fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Jan 6, 2024 |
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Jan 6, 2024 12:57
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Are there a limited number of characters you do that with like in a song of ice and fire or the expanse, or does everyone get one short cycle and then the narrative moves on like winesburg, ohio?
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Jan 6, 2024 13:37
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thunderdome winner
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No perspective repetition intended, but I might reluctantly return to a character if it improves the story.
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Jan 6, 2024 13:42
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FPyat posted:I'm writing a short piece that flits from point of view to point of view so that no individual is given narrative priority. 200-300 words about one character, then on to another. Thing is that I'm not sure what to compare it to for my writing group. I can name television series and novels whose structures are inspiring me, but I want to be able to point them to short stories and novellas. I'm sure I've read things that resemble what I'm writing, but I can't recall any of them immediately. Edit: Well, there are two stories I can put a name to, but I don't want to have to explain Warhammer 40K to my group. Virginia Woolf jumped povs like that for those exact reasons. She did cycle through characters, but she was writing longer works. At the very least you can point to To the Lighthouse and say, “It’s kinda like that” I also highly recommend reading it if you haven’t. It’s extremely good
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Jan 6, 2024 16:37
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To be honest I don't see why your writing group needs a famous work to compare it to. If it gets to shopping it to agents then you'll want a hook of that nature. But with the group, your writing stands on its own for better or worse IMO. Unless "you have to provide a famous book/story your work is similar to" is a group rule or somesuch.
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Jan 6, 2024 18:00
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FPyat posted:I'm writing a short piece that flits from point of view to point of view so that no individual is given narrative priority. 200-300 words about one character, then on to another. Thing is that I'm not sure what to compare it to for my writing group. I can name television series and novels whose structures are inspiring me, but I want to be able to point them to short stories and novellas. I'm sure I've read things that resemble what I'm writing, but I can't recall any of them immediately. Edit: Well, there are two stories I can put a name to, but I don't want to have to explain Warhammer 40K to my group. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_Short_Films_About_Springfield
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Jan 6, 2024 19:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:To be honest I don't see why your writing group needs a famous work to compare it to. If it gets to shopping it to agents then you'll want a hook of that nature. But with the group, your writing stands on its own for better or worse IMO. But really this, I mean you described it perfectly well. Its not like you need an elevator pitch for them to invest in it.
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Jan 6, 2024 19:39
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Makes me think of Asimov's The last question But I'm unsure whether that really fits what you're going for with your story. This follows a question to it's conclusion through the people who ask it at various points. And your story may follow a war from beginning to end or generations of a family. So not sure its usefulness. But it's short.
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Jan 6, 2024 19:43
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If you're looking for an elevator pitch, Tarantino movies have chapters for each character, and the story intertwines them all together. I'd read the hell out of "Pulp Fiction with goblins." My chapter came along ok. The scene is both characters sitting to talk, but before anything gets too wordy, they are interrupted by a messenger. Bad Luck guy gets into an animated whisper argument off in the distance, and an older student shows up to warn the MC about being careful with him. He taps his metal knee brace with a cane and tells her he's bad luck.
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Jan 6, 2024 22:06
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for a pitch, snatch has like 15 shifting POV chars
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Jan 6, 2024 22:20
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Magnolia with less frogs, or more.
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Jan 7, 2024 00:10
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Gaius Marius posted:Magnolia with less frogs, or more. This is basically all fiction
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Jan 7, 2024 00:32
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a friendly penguin posted:Makes me think of Asimov's The last question But I'm unsure whether that really fits what you're going for with your story. This follows a question to it's conclusion through the people who ask it at various points. And your story may follow a war from beginning to end or generations of a family. So not sure its usefulness. But it's short. Thanks, that’s the ideal story to bring up. My group isn’t close-minded or anything, it’s more that I want to he able to ground it in previous work.
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Jan 7, 2024 02:24
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OK, it's time to knuckle down and start querying my novel. I'm totally new to this, although I've picked up a general idea of the process from following this thread/generally hanging around other writers. https://www.agentquery.com is linked in the OP--is this still considered a good guide to understand the absolute basics? Also among the people here who have experience querying, is there anything non-obvious that you wish you had known when you started out?
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Jan 12, 2024 05:21
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Sailor Viy posted:Also among the people here who have experience querying, is there anything non-obvious that you wish you had known when you started out? Sign up for an account (free is fine) on QueryTracker. Most agents nowadays do queries through the QueryTracker form system (it's extremely good) and your account means you can actually search and follow agents/agencies, can automatically manage your blacklist, etc. Put in the work to set up your poo poo there, it'll pay off. Also, keep a spreadsheet somewhere (google docs is fine) for your own vibes/receipts/whatever about agents, because this probably won't be your only book you query, and you'll want to reference that poo poo in future. Keep note of which agencies have a no from one = no from all policy, and be aware of who you still have queries out for at various places. drat near every agency has a rule that you can only query one agent at the agency a time, and it's better to be aware of this at the start than to get surprised down the line. If a dream agent opens somewhere you've got a query out with someone else, feel free to send a withdrawal, and you can make them super basic; what I normally go for is "Thank you for your consideration but I am going to withdraw this query at this time." Get prepared for pain lol. The ones that hurt most aren't the form rejections - they're honestly great, because poo poo, at least you got ANY response. Agents like Caitlin Blasdell or Hannah Bowman do it best, with simple one line forms like "Thanks for the look, but I will have to pass." gently caress yeah. The ones that hurt most are the ones where the agent asks explicitly for what you wrote and then says "wow your writing is great and this is exactly what I wanted but I don't know, nah." (so pleeeaaaase do not pin any hopes on an agent who seems to be asking for exactly your book; you will do it anyway, I do all the time, but please try not to, for your own sanity) It seems dramatic to call this process painful, but when you spend a year+ working on a book and then up to 18 months waiting on a query response (not unheard of) only to maybe get told no, and you do this 50+ times per book, it starts to really fuckin' eat at you. And be working on something else. There's a fair few agents who explicitly ask "what are you working on now" so being able to do a mini elevator pitch for your current WIP is super useful. Plus, it helps with the Doubts if you know you're not throwing all your eggs in one basket. Finally: don't send snarky responses. Don't argue. Don't do it. Just be fuckin' polite, nice, and loving professional. Agents are horribly overworked and underpaid people who need to deal with thousands of egotistical-rear end writers every week, and a lot of them don't seem to have very good training on managing workloads--and that's if they are somehow managing to do this as their only job. This seems obvious but hoooly poo poo it is apparently very much not. I know a few agency assistants and every single one talks about just how bad the majority of submissions are and how lovely so many writers can be. e: And it's 90% luck. This isn't a merit based system. Don't pin your self worth on this poo poo. People who get an agent aren't necessarily better writers than you, and if you get an agent, people who don't have one aren't worse. It's mostly just luck. Wungus fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jan 12, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 11:58
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Sailor Viy posted:Also among the people here who have experience querying, is there anything non-obvious that you wish you had known when you started out? The relationship goes both ways. Curate the list of agents you're going to query carefully and don't assume that everyone who could potentially rep your book would actually be a good fit. Check their sales in your genre - if they aren't selling to big five imprints or large indie presses then they may not be worth your time. If you get an offer, take the opportunity to speak to their clients and make sure they're happy. Don't let your eagerness to get rep drive you to sign with someone who isn't going to take your career in the direction you want it to. A bad agent (or just one who's a bad fit for you) can be a worse setback for your writing career than not finding an agent at all and having to try again with another book.
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Jan 12, 2024 13:23
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Sailor Viy posted:OK, it's time to knuckle down and start querying my novel. I'm totally new to this, although I've picked up a general idea of the process from following this thread/generally hanging around other writers. Check out r/PubTips on Reddit as well. You can get your query workshopped, but also look at recent ones in your genre that have been successful
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Jan 12, 2024 16:39
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Wungus posted:stuff So the workflow is essentially: - write a query and synopsis that's as good as possible - send queries to as many agents as you can - wait up to 18 months for a response (or no response at all) - periodically check to see if any agents have come open to submissions and query them too ? That does sound painful but at least it seems like the work is mostly front-loaded, I can just set everything up and then focus on other stuff while the rejections roll in.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:52
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+ working on something else alongside like that one guy said
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Jan 13, 2024 21:59
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Sailor Viy posted:So the workflow is essentially: Send your queries in waves, and get feedback on your query.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:05
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Sailor Viy posted:So the workflow is essentially: Basically, yep, so long as you're including "be working on something else" in your plans. Eventually you get to trunk the book after nobody picks it up, then watch several agents talk online about how they wish they could get a book that was the exact one of yours they rejected six months ago, and take it way too personally and have a whiny little tantrum with a friend over drinks. I've done that with two books so far, and I cannot recommend an offline tantrum to get you through the publishing wringer enough.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:34
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It's an extremely arbitrary process. I've had agents who rejected my book come back after it was published and say they read it and loved it and must have been on crack. I have also had editors who rejected stories for publication in their magazines turn around and put those stories in years' best anthologies they edited.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:54
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OK, here's a first draft of a query for my novel. All feedback is appreciated.quote:(insert hopefully personalised message to agent) I hope you will consider BIRDS OF ALL NATIONS, an adult fantasy novel about a catastrophic flood. My two biggest worries so far are a) that this pitch doesn't really hit any of the "trending" themes in the genre right now. I wonder if I should try to play up the ecological disaster angle to make it seem more relevant. But I don't know if "it's about climate change" is actually a selling point for the epic fantasy audience. And b) that the second comp might be misleading. My novel has a fair bit in common with Spear (it's set over a few days, humans interact with gods, there's a big flood). What it doesn't have is any of the stylistic experimentation and meta frame narrative stuff. But I've noticed that the blurb for Spear doesn't mention those aspects of the novel at all, so maybe it's not relevant from a marketing perspective?
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Jan 16, 2024 00:44
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Sailor Viy posted:OK, here's a first draft of a query for my novel. All feedback is appreciated. i think that's fairly tight, and it's something I'd want to read. Maybe just add 'and the things we do when blah blah blah' (or whatever) at the end of the first line, it looks like the flood is a premise rather than what the books about.
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Jan 16, 2024 00:59
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