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I know Remender's Uncanny X-Force run isn't everyone's favorite but it was my first real exposure to Daken. And his ending in that isn't the most, um, graceful, but I think it fit the theme of the book.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:34
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Daken and Romulus both originated from Daniel Way's Wolverine run, right?
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Jan 8, 2024 18:46
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So like, keeping in mind that we have no idea what any of the "post-Krakoa" status quo is going to be and editorial is being intentionally vague about it, kinda deliberately playing up reader anxiety to drum up interest in that wink-wink way they've been doing for all their events since the 2000s... There are a couple of elements of the Krakoa narrative going away that would annoy me, and that I feel like would be thoughtlessly tossing out really interesting ideas to go back to stale boring ones...but the one thing potentially going away that should be a far bigger deal than it feels like these writers have really thought through the ramifications of, is the prospect of losing resurrections. Again, to be clear, we don't actually know that they're losing resurrections (or anything, really). All of this is theoretical. But if you're leaving the Krakoa narrative behind, that seems like the writing on the wall, right? If you have resurrections, then you have Krakoa. The entire engine is essentially one and the same. And I don't really feel anyone on deck has actually ruminated on how loving big a deal it would be for mutantkind -- and everyone else -- to lose this. Think about it. They had eternal life. They had the promised reward. Everyone was going to live as long as they could ever want for absolutely no cost. They had achieved the literal pinnacle end goal of existence. They made a whole rear end new religion about what this meant to them. And then humans went and took it away. This should be...I don't think there's actually a suitable word for just how monumental a bereavement that should be to each and every mutant. There is no real world comparison to this, there is no sociopolitical comparison, we can only barely grapple with the philosophical implications. It's a loss so total and encompassing that it would stain everything any mutant ever thinks, or does, for the rest of their now-short lives. X-Men comics should be nothing but fury and bitterness, forever. This is why it was so exciting when, in the immediate aftermath of the Gala, the comics and the characters in them actually seemed to react with the proportionate amount of grief and dark rage at the prospect of not only losing their people, but also losing the interminable reward that they had earned. And this is why it was so disappointing when, now that there's been some distance from the incident, many books seem to be losing the proper perspective about the exact scale of injustice that has been dealt to everyone. Like, thanks for the speeches about due process and turning cheeks or whatever, Cap, but they don't really have the effect you're going for right now, sorry. Yes, yes, comics are cyclical and repetitive, stories will always regress to uncomplicated states. But then...possibly we should have thought of this in the first place if we were gonna give a million characters immortality and then just put that back in the toy box like nothing happened? Like I feel like there's not even a word to describe how awkward that is? It would be insane enough for mutantkind to just go back to standard superheroics after losing their new island paradise homeland, sure, but even that's nothing compared them possibly just going back to life as usual after having held life everlasting in their hands and then having it stolen away. They would either be constantly trying to re-obtain the means to resurrection for the rest of time, or else would need to receive something just as good as resurrection for this whole story saga to cap off with anything resembling a cathartic outcome. And I can't think of what that something could be. [/  ]
BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 19:54
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Daken’s first heroic act was killing the Punisher.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:41
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The resurrections going away is one thing I'm actually looking forward to. I was never a huge fan of it anyway. I don't think it's been a net negative or anything but I'm glad it won't be dangling around to lean on anymore. There's been some good uses of it, but it also enabled some bad story beats as well.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:42
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Codependent Poster posted:Daken was a terrible character for most his existence until they pivoted to make him a hero. I can't remember where that started, but he became much better when he was portrayed as the big brother to Laura and Gabby That and Batman Family proves people just really want superhero family drama.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:52
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what will the mutants do without having ritual suicide by combat as a founding pillar of society anymore
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Jan 8, 2024 20:56
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X-O posted:The resurrections going away is one thing I'm actually looking forward to. I was never a huge fan of it anyway. I don't think it's been a net negative or anything but I'm glad it won't be dangling around to lean on anymore. There's been some good uses of it, but it also enabled some bad story beats as well. I think it's been best utilized now that Beast has fully embraced being an evil piece of poo poo antagonist.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:23
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Can not loving wait for Beast to get retconned because there is literally no plot in comics I despise as much as "Beast, the man who looks like a monster but has the soul and mind of a good person" becoming "Beast, the horrible monster man, was in fact a total amoral monster man, gently caress him, you were right to treat him like a beast."
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Jan 8, 2024 21:28
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ImpAtom posted:Can not loving wait for Beast to get retconned because there is literally no plot in comics I despise as much as "Beast, the man who looks like a monster but has the soul and mind of a good person" becoming "Beast, the horrible monster man, was in fact a total amoral monster man, gently caress him, you were right to treat him like a beast." The closest is that his last backup is from his Avengers days were he was fun and not a piece of poo poo.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:33
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ImpAtom posted:Can not loving wait for Beast to get retconned because there is literally no plot in comics I despise as much as "Beast, the man who looks like a monster but has the soul and mind of a good person" becoming "Beast, the horrible monster man, was in fact a total amoral monster man, gently caress him, you were right to treat him like a beast." I agree it's not the best look, but I do find the gradual CIA-fication of Beast to be an incredibly compelling story, how he once took a cold, drastic, ends-justifying decision, and then another. And then another and another and another. The character is at least not a slasher or a bruiser, he's villainous in a very clinical, self-rationalizing way, which takes the edge off a little bit. MonsterEnvy posted:The closest is that his last backup is from his Avengers days were he was fun and not a piece of poo poo. It's very funny how obviously Percy gave the future writers the "look, I'll understand if you don't want to follow up on this" button.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:41
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Yeah, if anything I admire the guts the writers had to go "Listen, spook stuff is mean and nasty and the graveyard of good intentions. There's no reason to imagine the mutant CIA/KGB would be any more moral than the human versions, and in fact, they have both extra capabilities and a chip on their shoulder to help them be worse", and using a moderately popular/important character as the poster for it. It would have been really easy to go "Let's put , um, Stryfe or some other edgy nobody in charge of it, have him go crazy, heroes beat him up, all is well again!" with it.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:01
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Rochallor posted:I agree it's not the best look, but I do find the gradual CIA-fication of Beast to be an incredibly compelling story, how he once took a cold, drastic, ends-justifying decision, and then another. And then another and another and another. The character is at least not a slasher or a bruiser, he's villainous in a very clinical, self-rationalizing way, which takes the edge off a little bit. More than just all of this, Beast's descent has never had anything to do with his appearance, it's entirely been driven by his intellect and warped sense of utilitarian ethics. I mostly hate what they've done to Beast, since he was one of my favorites, but the way it's been done over the course of many, many years and even more writers has been consistent and rarely boring. That said, I'm ready for the happy-go-lucky/deeply stoned Avengers Beast personality to return.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:07
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how many of Marvel's biggest brains haven't had a big old heinous evil period? Richards, Stark, Pym, Xavier, McCoy... T'Challa's moral dubiousness was more in the cutthroat statecraft department rather than evil science, but it was bad enough that he got kicked off his throne. I guess Peter's been saved by the fact that his academic achievements are constantly stalled out/every time he's gone capital E Evil he's either been possessed or suffered from (not actual) clone dementia OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 22:19
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Also I don't think anyone has ever put Peter in a position of power/authority for any significant length of time. He already has his conscience full juggling being a hero/nephew/husband/lower middle class.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:21
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Rochallor posted:It's very funny how obviously Percy gave the future writers the "look, I'll understand if you don't want to follow up on this" button. Nah, Percy himself is using that. We're getting good Beast returning and Wonder Man will be with him. I'll forgive Percy for some things if he can write a good pairing of those two. Also, Spider-Man is probably one of the most incorruptible heroes ever. Even his evil clones end up doing mostly good things. I'd say like him, Ben Grimm, and Squirrel Girl are probably the top three who just would not go through any evil phase. And Peter is probably the only "genius" hero on that list.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:59
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General boyscout blandness aside, Cyclops' horrible immoral villain turn that got the whole world spitting at the mention of his name and necessitated bringing an untainted younger version in was....slightly altering some poison clouds so they didn't grisly murder random people.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:02
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Rochallor posted:I agree it's not the best look, but I do find the gradual CIA-fication of Beast to be an incredibly compelling story, how he once took a cold, drastic, ends-justifying decision, and then another. And then another and another and another. The character is at least not a slasher or a bruiser, he's villainous in a very clinical, self-rationalizing way, which takes the edge off a little bit. And then he goes and makes clones of himself that still need glasses to make original Beast feel superior, even though they all have the exact same amount of intelligence. 
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Jan 8, 2024 23:03
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Codependent Poster posted:Nah, Percy himself is using that. We're getting good Beast returning and Wonder Man will be with him. I'll forgive Percy for some things if he can write a good pairing of those two. doreen's evil clone did beat up the marvel universe once
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Jan 8, 2024 23:16
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Trump, lying: I can't be corrupted because I'm so rich! Peter, telling the truth: I can't be corrupted because I'm a nerd responsible for the death of my uncle. Also, I've said it before and maybe with Krakoa ending I won't have to again but... My problem with Percy's X-Force is that "what if there was a superhero CIA that was realistic" is inherently a bad pitch and I cannot think of how that could be executed and still be good. It reeks of Mark Millar.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:30
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danbanana posted:Also, I've said it before and maybe with Krakoa ending I won't have to again but... My problem with Percy's X-Force is that "what if there was a superhero CIA that was realistic" is inherently a bad pitch and I cannot think of how that could be executed and still be good. It reeks of Mark Millar. A Millar book on a similar subject would probably have an awareness that euphemisms like "regime change" are bad, but would also be invested in how cool and badass these guys doing awful, over-the-top war crimes are. Some of the worst (in a moral sense, not story sense) actions of X-Force do creep up to the line of over-the-top, like the whole Terra Verde thing, but crucially: 1) they never actually cross the line (Terra Verde is basically literalizing what the US did to countless countries during the Cold War), 2) plenty of characters have major issues with what generally Beast is doing and try and stop it / quit in protest, and 3) Percy's had the fortune of a really long run and being paired with a number of really great artists.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:51
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danbanana posted:Trump, lying: I can't be corrupted because I'm so rich! If Millar was writing it Beast would be mentally enslaving France, seducing hot Orchis agents, banging them, having them assassinated because he's just that cool and doesn't give a gently caress, and his parting shot would be getting goody-2-shoes Sage r*ped by his army of Wolverine clones before founding his own, hardcore mutant utopia with blackjack and hookers. It's not the best of the recent crop of X-titled but it's not bad either.
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Jan 9, 2024 01:09
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Isn't "superhero CIA" basically the genre Suicide Squad invented? Morally dubious superhero shenannigans in the context of real world political contexts slightly more complicated than your average Cold War era James Bond movie?? And arguably no one has ever done it better than Ostander despite it being approaching 40 years since??? Granted, it works in that book because the cast is like 60% villains 30% anti-heroes and 10% good people who are in a constant state of "what the gently caress am I doing here" or "I deserve to be among these scum because I'm so rotten" Although I am a fan of Remender's X-Force
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Jan 9, 2024 01:15
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x-force is good
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Jan 9, 2024 02:24
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the best part of x-force is the 30 issue long con of brainwashed colossus that barely went anywhere because he drug it out so long fall of x cockblocked the storyline
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Jan 9, 2024 02:54
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site posted:the best part of x-force is the 30 issue long con of brainwashed colossus that barely went anywhere because he drug it out so long fall of x cockblocked the storyline mikhail rasputin died as he lived: wasting everyone's time
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Jan 9, 2024 03:10
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I'm laughed at the idea of a chronological HoxPox but a friend convinced me to try it. HoxPox is one of 4 physical omnibuses I own everything else is digital. I've read it through a half dozen time. This material isn't new to me. I'm 1/3 through the chronological version and it makes so much more sense. And Marvel was smart to release it now because you can see how they took some seeds from it to make fall of X
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Jan 9, 2024 03:19
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The worst thing about X-Force for me was wasting Domino after her amazing solo series.
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Jan 9, 2024 03:25
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the further out we get from it the less favorably i think about gail simone's domino
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Jan 9, 2024 03:33
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Alaois posted:the further out we get from it the less favorably i think about gail simone's domino Having just reread it it's still really good.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:28
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Sephyr posted:General boyscout blandness aside, Cyclops' horrible immoral villain turn that got the whole world spitting at the mention of his name and necessitated bringing an untainted younger version in was....slightly altering some poison clouds so they didn't grisly murder random people. You know, somehow I never realized that current day cyclops was in fact the time displaced version of him. That was the whole era I sort of skipped over when I got back in at dawn of x, and it is kind of funny that Scott's evil future self just gets to stay dead and no one cares. Nah guys, this is Scott now.
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Jan 9, 2024 06:44
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Caros posted:You know, somehow I never realized that current day cyclops was in fact the time displaced version of him. Wait, really? Was that in Rosenberg's abominable X-Men run right before Krakoa?
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Jan 9, 2024 07:22
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I think one of the last things I read pre-HoX was Xavier came back young and I think supposed to be like First Class Movies Xavier or something.
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Jan 9, 2024 07:58
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Caros posted:You know, somehow I never realized that current day cyclops was in fact the time displaced version of him. it's not surprising you never realized that because it isn't true. cable dug up cyclop's body after he died of m-pox and resurrected him. the five brought him back promptly any time he's died since then.
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Jan 9, 2024 09:39
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Whatever happened to Firestar? Did I miss a comic or is she still a spy on Orchis?
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Jan 9, 2024 12:21
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nunsexmonkrock posted:Whatever happened to Firestar? Did I miss a comic or is she still a spy on Orchis? Yes. That was the main story of some of the recent X-Men Unlimited comics. In brief, she works under Judas Traveler who is in charge of shaping the narrative but eventually screws him over and takes his job. Meanwhile she captures Justice but manages to arrange his escape without anyone knowing it was her.
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Jan 9, 2024 13:18
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Ah okay - I don't read the unlimited series because the scrolling bothers me - much rather have something to fill up my bookshelf lol. Thank you!
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Jan 9, 2024 16:06
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's not surprising you never realized that because it isn't true. cable dug up cyclop's body after he died of m-pox and resurrected him. the five brought him back promptly any time he's died since then. See, this is why the resurrections don't really bother me. Everyone is on a respawn timer and we all know it, it just gets more or less contrived. I'd rather there was an established way for it to happen than the usual mad science/it was a skrull/weird miracle/wasn't really dead goofy roulette.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:06
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's not surprising you never realized that because it isn't true. cable dug up cyclop's body after he died of m-pox and resurrected him. the five brought him back promptly any time he's died since then. Oh, fair enough. The wiki was a little... Messy, on that whole thing.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:36
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Did they ever merge the two versions of Cyclops? I remember him still being very fond of Kamala before the Hellfire Gala, which I thought was something from young cyke's run.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:46
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