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Desfore posted:I do tend to think about GW's production line, given the last few years of difficulties, and how a new game is just spreading them thinner and thinner. I think that might actually be the point. Waaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day, Gav Thorpe was talking about how new editions of books needed to have some kind of new models to drive sales otherwise veteran players would buy a book and be set for however long. If they just had 40k and AoS, the release cycle they currently have would be insane if the majority of releases fed into those ranges. Now that they have multiple games that have ranges smaller than AoS, 40k, but bigger than what a 'Specialist Game' had, the churn on the main range games is lessened. A bit. One could also say something about the resources needed for those secondary games in maintaining the release cadence but as long as all that poo poo sells, who cares?
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Jan 8, 2024 02:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:Bunch of people put mino heads on this guys These guys should make good chaos ogres too. I really like the fomoroid crusher for some reason but I am struggling to find a good analog in TOS. Any ideas? https://www.warhammer.com/en-CA/shop/fomoroid-crusher-2022
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Jan 8, 2024 02:19
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Robert Facepalmer posted:I think that might actually be the point. Waaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day, Gav Thorpe was talking about how new editions of books needed to have some kind of new models to drive sales otherwise veteran players would buy a book and be set for however long. If they just had 40k and AoS, the release cycle they currently have would be insane if the majority of releases fed into those ranges. Now that they have multiple games that have ranges smaller than AoS, 40k, but bigger than what a 'Specialist Game' had, the churn on the main range games is lessened. A bit. The interview posted in the specialty games thread Arglebargle III posted:Interesting video on the 40K domination of GW and the end of WHFB. time stamp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSgtqUCTpi0&t=3225s Says the opposite and that people bought more miniatures when a new army book came out and the marketing team at games-workshop wanted new army books to make it easier for them to sell the new miniatures.
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Jan 8, 2024 02:22
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It is coming from the same angle that models are where the money is, not the books. If you come out with a new book and there aren't really any new units and the only models are updates to older kits, you'll get sales to players that are starting new armies, but grogs will carry on with their old rear end Empire Halberdiers or Dwarf Cannons or whatever. If you have a new book with Malibu Stacy's brand new hat-thrower, then you have something to sell to the noobs and the grogs, which started the churn of every new book having all kinds of new poo poo that the Marine chapters have had in their armories for thousands of years, but never used. Until now. For sales, everything had to be newnewnew. Other than a few evergreen releases like Tactical Squads or Rhinos, the majority of a code's lifetime sales were within the first 3-6 months of release. That assumption that the book was written and then models were sculpted is completely backwards as the book was usually the last thing done, though I can imagine that is probably not as severe these days. Though some Bretonnian model finally seeing the light of day and the smaller plastic hills finally being released or at least publicly shown is amusing. I will be interested to see if the Orc release has the 'new' Wyvern that was done in like 2005.
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Jan 8, 2024 03:28
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I doubt anyone in marketing cares about grogs or even knows that much about them anyway.
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Jan 8, 2024 03:39
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Lostconfused posted:I doubt anyone in marketing cares about grogs or even knows that much about them anyway. Well, they know enough from their sales figures and comparison between total Core Rulebook sales and whatever they're currently trying to offload. I'm hoping we see Kislev as an alternative Empire list, with figures. It's a real shame Kislev and Cathay mysteriously dropped off.
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Jan 8, 2024 03:49
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LashLightning posted:I'm hoping we see Kislev as an alternative Empire list, with figures. It's a real shame Kislev and Cathay mysteriously dropped off. hard to imagine they aren't still coming after we get the rest of the non-PDF armies
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Jan 8, 2024 03:50
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They went to a lot of trouble to develop Kislev and Cathay for Total War. They're not simple Empire reskins. I expect they'll be coming in the future, but who knows when that'll be. I've heard that both of them have some lore in the main rulebook if that's any indication.
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Jan 8, 2024 04:03
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The one thing that might boost this game's popularity is, ironically, 3d printing. Fantasy armies were already pretty expensive back in the day, I can't imagine what they're going to cost now.
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Jan 8, 2024 04:05
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Saw some pictures, and Cathey and Kislev got pretty big sections. I imagine they will come eventually.
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Jan 8, 2024 05:38
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I saw the rules for the Bretonnian and Tomb Kings alternate builds and they are not just rearranging a few things. They get access to some new units that are explicitly meant to be conversion opportunities or counts-as. They have little designer's notes telling you what they would suggest. Some, like the venerable ushabti, are as simple as painting them a little nicer. Others, like the tomb guard chariots, will require conversion work. Some regular units aren't allowed at all or get mixed up in different slots. They also have more rules than I was expecting. It's not just one little bonus. Oh, and there are magic items tied to each. They're really cool. Some really strong narrative elements and converters will have a field day. Definitely looking forward to the Empire versions. I will say though, for anyone worried that this makes the little splatbooks a mandatory purchase, I don't see these builds as that advantageous over a generic list. Yeah, if you want to focus on chariots, go with the Nehekharan Royal Host. Just be aware that you lose access to some pretty important stuff and suddenly your general and heirophant are the same model. You're also required to take 33% core instead of the usual 25%. I completely forgot to mention these things can change your army composition like that. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 05:59
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That sounds excellent. Not at all the variant Codex chapter stuff you used to see with Imperial Fists supplements etc.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:02
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you guys are yapping about who you want to return but you're all missing the most important characters they should bring back:- 
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Jan 8, 2024 06:49
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Yeast posted:I was listening to a hobby channel who were saying, and I reckon they’re right, tow is going to replace Lord of the Rings at GW. People have been periodically predicting the death of LotR for 10+ years now. It's current starter box is barely a year old and had enough demand that they did two separate pre order periods.
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Jan 8, 2024 07:21
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Safety Factor posted:I saw the rules for the Bretonnian and Tomb Kings alternate builds and they are not just rearranging a few things. They get access to some new units that are explicitly meant to be conversion opportunities or counts-as. They have little designer's notes telling you what they would suggest. Some, like the venerable ushabti, are as simple as painting them a little nicer. Others, like the tomb guard chariots, will require conversion work. Some regular units aren't allowed at all or get mixed up in different slots. They also have more rules than I was expecting. It's not just one little bonus. Oh, and there are magic items tied to each. They're really cool. Some really strong narrative elements and converters will have a field day. Definitely looking forward to the Empire versions. Yeah I saw the take Tomb King as Heirophant rule, which could be nice as Tomb Kings are tougher than Liches.
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Jan 8, 2024 07:51
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Incredible to think that 10 years ago I was on this very forum posting through the death of WHFB in the Death thread(s) and now it's coming back. Not going to spend a dime on anything new, but I might dust off the ol' Ogre army if this reignites Fantasy at the local club. Been looking at previews and it seems they've reined in magic, which was my main complaint about 8th. Anyone know if the PDFs for the non-book factions going live on release day or are those more of a "we'll put them out at some point in the future" kinda thing?
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Jan 8, 2024 08:17
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Ojetor posted:Incredible to think that 10 years ago I was on this very forum posting through the death of WHFB in the Death thread(s) and now it's coming back. Not going to spend a dime on anything new, but I might dust off the ol' Ogre army if this reignites Fantasy at the local club. Been looking at previews and it seems they've reined in magic, which was my main complaint about 8th. no specifics on when for the PDFs yet (unless it was in reply to someone on instagram or some other poo poo I wouldn't see), I'd guess a week or two after release day judging from recent launch patterns
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Jan 8, 2024 09:03
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How are people actually recieving this new relaunch of the old world? Are the reviews positive?
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Jan 8, 2024 10:09
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Al-Saqr posted:How are people actually recieving this new relaunch of the old world? Are the reviews positive? From the battle reports I've watched people really seem to like the battle system. People think the price for 20 year old models is off but the rules are apparently really good.
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Jan 8, 2024 11:35
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As someone who had every fantasy army from 3rd edition through 7th edition, except Chaos Dwarves that I hated until the TWW 3 expansion, I am so very excited about this. Been binge watching all the different battle reports and I am excited. Fantasy was, by far, my favorite mini game for years and years. Something about bricks of troops, plus flanking making a meaningful impact on matches, just always clicked with me. I think I'm down to Dwarves, Beastmen or Orcs and Goblins. Maybe Chaos Dwarves if I can find some bad rear end models. I love Bretonia but after having to help paint over 200 knights, all with individual heraldy, for a GW event back on the day.....I don't know if I can do knights again Personally I'm set on 3d printing whatever army I decide on, or at least mix on with classic models as there are so many great content creators these days.
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Jan 8, 2024 14:57
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I've been persuaded to get in on this so I can play with some friends who've kept armies from the old days, and I'm in on the Bretonnian train. Already drawing up heraldry to keep it consistent family-wise with the main Lord and his higher-ranking knights, and then so I can go more bananas with the Grail lads! I'll definitely be looking to get some nameplates so I can label them all appropriately, too.
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Jan 8, 2024 15:19
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Tiny Chalupa posted:I think I'm down to Dwarves, Beastmen or Orcs and Goblins. Maybe Chaos Dwarves if I can find some bad rear end models. I was asking about Chaos Dwarf models in the specialist game threads and was recommended either the Abyssal Dwarves line from Kings of War or looking up Fabelzel on patreon for their custom made 3d printable chorfs.
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Jan 8, 2024 15:20
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There are some strong rumour that Chorfs are coming back for AoS. Though I would not expect them too soon.
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Jan 8, 2024 15:32
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:People have been periodically predicting the death of LotR for 10+ years now. It's current starter box is barely a year old and had enough demand that they did two separate pre order periods. They also just did new plastic sculpts of a ton of heroes, new rulebook and new terrain. I remember back in like 2003-4 when I first got into WFB people back THEN were saying that LotR was dying. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon (or hope, since it rules). I ended up getting a box of those Fireforge Albion Knights over the weekend to see if they'll make good proxies for Knights of the Realm and I'm pretty ok with them so far, especially considering the price ($35 for a box of 12) They rank up pretty well:  The bases they're on are the wrong size, but I didn't glue them and will grab some real bases when they launch:  I was a little worried about the size since I heard they were a bit smaller than GW knights but man, the scale difference between these and new Blood Knights is hilarious: 
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Jan 8, 2024 15:47
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Al-Saqr posted:How are people actually recieving this new relaunch of the old world? Are the reviews positive? Rules-wise, the general reception has been very positive. There's definitely been some grumbling about the old models and overall release forecasting, but what else is new? Of more concern, in my opinion, is the fact that the US didn't even get the new resin characters. They've been delayed for some reason and we don't know when they're coming. The rules genuinely seem great. I watched a few battle reports over the weekend and really liked what I saw. The game is more dynamic than before, lethality is down in a number of ways, and units stick around longer. Magic is simplified, but there's still some good interaction between players. Units really do shift around the battlefield during combat which can take them out of range of commanders, banners, magic, etc. or open them up to flanking charges. Even infantry on infantry grindfests don't stay in one spot. I can't wait to get a new army put together and play it myself. Personally, I'm waiting on the Empire rerelease so I've just bought the books for now. I've got time to brainstorm and I've already got a few lists in mind. I'm going to buy so many state troops. 
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Jan 8, 2024 15:52
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GW be damned, I'm doing this for Hashut and the Dawi Zharr
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Jan 8, 2024 19:26
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Count Thrashula posted:GW be damned, I'm doing this for Hashut and the Dawi Zharr That guy rules so hard. Awesome job on the paint. Do the Chaos Dwarves on tabletop have a bunch of orc units like they do in Total war?
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Jan 8, 2024 19:37
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Al-Saqr posted:How are people actually recieving this new relaunch of the old world? Are the reviews positive? No one at my LGS seems to want to play it, which sucks for me (since I already preordered a box!), but mostly because they're deep into 40k and KT right now.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:37
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Al-Saqr posted:How are people actually recieving this new relaunch of the old world? Are the reviews positive? All the actual reviews I've read have been positive from a rules standpoint except for Dicebreaker who said it's "a cynical exercise in mining nostalgia - and cash - from Fantasy Battle fans" but that same reviewer also said that Leviathan is "a cynically manufactured Product, which is only exacerbated by the, quite frankly criminal, lack of credits" and says that their favorite RPG is Ironclaw, so I dunno how much stock I'd put in what they're saying.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:04
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I have no idea how this game plays but from everything I've seen the designers feel strongly about the decisions they've made so I think saying it's a cynical cash grab is a bad take. They could have just pumped out 8th edition part 2 but they didn't.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:08
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I mean this absolutely is a cynical exercise in mining nostalgia and cash from fantasy battle fans. Like that is totally correct. But what we actually want from companies is for them to sell us the products we want, so while that's totally cynical, it's also expected and OK from a player's perspective. I would have liked more evolution to the rules, but that would have been more risky and there's no reason to expect a more risky product from games workshop, when just doing this at all is taking a significant risk.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:09
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Pb and Jellyfish posted:That guy rules so hard. Awesome job on the paint. Do the Chaos Dwarves on tabletop have a bunch of orc units like they do in Total war? For their first book while you had to have one unit of Chaos Dwarf Warriors and however much you wanted of anything else. But Chaos Dwarf Warriors and Blunderbusses were 14 points a model (15 if you gave the Blunderbusses a shield). Meanwhile Hobgoblins were 5 points a model, Goblins 2.5, Orcs 5.5. Hobgoblin Wolf Riders at 14 points were the only things as expensive as the Chaos Dwarf Infantry.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:11
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Leperflesh posted:I mean this absolutely is a cynical exercise in mining nostalgia and cash from fantasy battle fans. Like that is totally correct. I think you can call the overall project a cashgrab mining nostalgia while also looking at it as a labor of passion from the people on the ground flood designing it. They honestly deviated more than I would have expected.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:14
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MonsterEnvy posted:Blunderbusses Blunderbusses are back in the Bretonnian exiles list, of all things. They can take lovely brigands as a rare choice who have the option to take them. The guns cost more than the guys wielding them. 
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Jan 8, 2024 20:16
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Eggplant Squire posted:I think you can call the overall project a cashgrab mining nostalgia while also looking at it as a labor of passion from the people on the ground flood designing it. They honestly deviated more than I would have expected. Absolutely yeah. At a corporate level this release is sharply focused on an old set of customers - people like me - that abandoned games workshop when they killed off our game, and they'd like us back. At the ground level the people who make these games care about what they're doing and put real time and effort into it. I think that's fairly common in corporate game companies. The people who are designing new cards for Magic the Gathering care about what they're doing, but Hasbro has a specific profit margin in mind and pursues it relentlessly. I'm OK with it. I don't think it's worth being too wound up about.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:16
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Just remembered way back when I went to a GW store where they were running a blind auction and I got about 40 blisters of wood elves for $60. A lot of them are glade guard though. Did anyone ever use glade guard?
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Jan 8, 2024 20:30
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I think pragmatic is a much better word to describe it. It's no more cynical than any other product, and probably less so than most given how badly WFB did in its latter years. They think that there's a sustainable market they can fill with something people want. Same as any of the other games that aren't 40k or AoS.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:02
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Yeah pragmatism is a fine word for it. It's just business sense. Understanding existing and potential markets and trying to serve them, but with a very clear and strong directive to be profitable by it.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:08
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Calling something a "cynical cash grab" is inherently a cynical statement to make. From that perspective, very few products aren't cynical cash grabs. What matters is if the end user values their interaction with the product more than the money they spent on it. I do have some worries with TOW, primarily that GW seems to have a tendency to introduce a fun new game, weakly support it for a year or two, and then simply stop producing updates at a reasonable clip. But man, I have so many fond memories of WHFB. I had a high elf army that I spent months painting. I worked at a hobby store at the time but I never could bring myself to finish it. Sold it at some point and I regret it.      I must've been in my late teens at this point. I have half a mind to buy the two starter sets, but I doubt I'd ever complete them, or have anyone near me to play for that matter. Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 21:14
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Those are some awesome elves. I wonder what high elf units will make it into TOW. Maybe some of the wilder 8th edition stuff like phoenixes might not make it in.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:32
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