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The Moon Monster posted:Loop Hero is the epitome of a "honeymoon" game where it feels really awesome for like 4 hours and everyone runs out to sing its praises on the internet, but then you realize you've seen pretty much everything it has to offer but there's still 40+ hours of grinding to do if you actually want to clear it. Loop Hero in particular really shows how terrible the "metaprogression" element roguelites are in love with can be. yeah there are a lot of games like this, where the length of the game/stuff to do exceeds the period where you're really enjoying it. there's usually an arc that peaks somewhere in middle with games, if a game can peak at it's ending then that's ideal, but i'm trying to get okay with just leaving games when i'm done with them whether they are finished and not thinking 'i need to get back to that' when i stopped for a reason
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Jan 7, 2024 20:21
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| # ? May 27, 2024 09:49 |
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A lot of strategy games are like that where they're reviewed glowingly by critics not deep into the genre and for so little time that the actual content on the review makes no mention of glaring flaws that the community will find in days.
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Jan 7, 2024 20:47
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I’m just sick of roguelites or anything with procedural generation. Please people, I want some design in my game design.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:26
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Game idea - you traverse a procedurally generated dungeon generated by a ChatGPT AI. At the end of the dungeon the boss fight is you tearing into it for its terrible design decisions and it having to defend itself. A 2nd AI decides the winner.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:36
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Nice Van My Man posted:Game idea - you traverse a procedurally generated dungeon generated by a ChatGPT AI. At the end of the dungeon the boss fight is you tearing into it for its terrible design decisions and it having to defend itself. A 2nd AI decides the winner. This game exists in weird fever dream format https://store.steampowered.com/app/1889620/AI_Roguelite/
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Jan 7, 2024 23:52
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So...your game idea is...yelling at an AI while a second AI watches?
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Jan 8, 2024 00:01
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'NICE TRY, BUT YOU'LL NEVER BE HUMAN' The AI sobs. You've gone too far, this time.
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Jan 8, 2024 00:02
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I think that game needs too many calls to web resources, but it's a neat concept. AI stuff will be a lot more interesting when it doesn't require subscriptions to external models to operate. AI Dungeon was kind of fun too last time I tried it, not sure if they've iterated on it since that was pretty early on in the AI boom. I just want a game where I'm tearing into an AI over something it made like Gordon Ramsey to a Jr. Chef. I guess I can already kind of do that with ChatGPT and its generated images. "No don't make another image, just explain to me how your composition could be so poo poo! DON'T GIVE ME THAT APOLOGY CRAP!" Anyway, I'm sure the AIs of the future will murder me painfully. Edit: I want a scoreboard involved though. You'll see, GOTY 2030.
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Jan 8, 2024 00:06
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ai dungeon was fun until they had to cripple it to chase all the erp freaks off. did it ever recover from that, or did it stay lame?
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Jan 8, 2024 00:45
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Being angry at the computer is a career, not a game.
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Jan 8, 2024 00:53
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StrangersInTheNight posted:So...your game idea is...yelling at an AI while a second AI watches? Game idea... fetish... they're really the same thing when you think about it.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:10
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Did anyone ever try and run a Chat Ai vs. Façade? I'm assuming so.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:14
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roomtone posted:yeah there are a lot of games like this, where the length of the game/stuff to do exceeds the period where you're really enjoying it. there's usually an arc that peaks somewhere in middle with games, if a game can peak at it's ending then that's ideal, but i'm trying to get okay with just leaving games when i'm done with them whether they are finished and not thinking 'i need to get back to that' when i stopped for a reason Loop Hero is an odd case here. A lot of the game is finding and exploiting very strong synergies. It’s essentially solvable- once you’ve cracked it you might still get RNG screwed on rare occasions before you can start setting up but it’s not like a different strategy would have saved you, it’s just the kind of RNG screw you can get in anything like that. The process of finding and learning to apply the synergies is really, really fun because they’re so strong, but that strength is why it’s solvable and that solvability will make it kind of dull and repetitive once you’ve cracked it. But since it’s dependent on the player to get there, you end up with some people hitting a victory lap phase with hours to go either because they’re good at that kind of thinking or looked it up, while other players will be struggling until later in the campaign. And it’s difficult to scale with player knowledge because once the player hits a certain point they’re just going to roll face unless you ramp the difficulty to the point you just lose because of RNG sometimes. It’s definitely one where going “I beat it!”before it’s over is 100 percent accurate.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:20
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I think that's kind of a problem with roguelites in general and it's why I'm surprised the genre has had as much longevity as it has. They go one of three ways: 1) There's a big swinging power balance dependent on knowing which rewards to take/chase after, and once you get a feel for what the strong options are the difficulty melts away, because it was all dependent on you not knowing how to powergame the rewards. It's a fun puzzle to solve and they can still be moderately fun after you figure it out but every run starts to feel very samey because you're always chasing the same rewards. 2) There's a big swinging power balance dependent entirely on RNG, where the player has very little control over how powerful their final build ends up being. This usually happens because of an extremely large reward pool and the player often not getting to pick from 3 rewards or whatever. They can still be moderately fun but the player has such little control over how the game ends up that they feel kind of passive to play, with the skill floor to winning every run just being "know how to not get hit", and they become very easy as soon as you learn how to do that - because the game inevitably gets balanced around winning no matter how good or bad your build is so that players don't complain when they lose due to RNG. 3) All of the rewards are balanced around each other to ensure that no reward picks are stand-out show-stoppers, so the player having meta-knowledge of the reward pool and what to pick doesn't trivialize the game, and the power balance is never or rarely swingy. But as a result every run is flat and they all start to feel the same and it doesn't matter what rewards you get or how the RNG plays out for you. At this point why is it a roguelite? All 3 can be fun but all 3 get boring as soon as you solve its method of challenge. Part of the reason I like traditional roguelikes so much is because they're basically #2 in this list except since they're randomness-based turn-based RPGs with often-unpredictable outcomes to individual turns (did the dragon hit me or did it miss? did it crit? etc) they never get stale, as opposed to like an action roguelite where you learn how to dodge boss attack patterns and then never feel challenged or find yourself in an unexpected situation that requires thought ever again. That's why (traditional) roguelikes end up being "forever-games" for a lot of people but action roguelites not so much, IMO. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 01:31
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I think the worst example of #2 is Hack Slash Loot, which is a 12 year old game I still get annoyed about whenever I think of it- there’s no interaction besides “move” and “attack”. You either get an item that gives you haste or health on kill (with no ceiling!) or you lose. That’s the game.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:40
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Dick Fontaine posted:ai dungeon was fun until they had to cripple it to chase all the erp freaks off. did it ever recover from that, or did it stay lame? their training set leaked and it was full of rape fiction, the call was coming from inside the house there
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Jan 8, 2024 02:18
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repiv posted:their training set leaked and it was full of rape fiction, the call was coming from inside the house there goddamnit nerds why you gotta be like this? 
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Jan 8, 2024 04:15
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Dick Fontaine posted:goddamnit nerds why you gotta be like this? It probably wasnt intentional, they probably just included every single page when scraping fanfic sites, and welp
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Jan 8, 2024 04:25
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Doing ERP online seems depressing to me, and doing ERP with an AI is just... So very sad to hear.
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Jan 8, 2024 04:39
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I played Oceanhorn 2. It was bad. Really bad.
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Jan 8, 2024 04:45
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ymgve posted:It probably wasnt intentional, they probably just included every single page when scraping fanfic sites, and welp probably, but then they deflected all blame onto the users when their model decided to veer off into gross territory entirely unprompted, even though it was trained to do that then they added a filter which terminated the session if things were getting gross, but the main model still wanted to make things gross, so it would kill the game for seemingly no reason
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Jan 8, 2024 14:25
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They tried to crack down on writing about underage sex but the way they went about it was crazy restrictive. Like you could write a character saying, "gently caress it, I'm buying a new laptop, this one is ten years old" and AI Dungeon would say nope and flag your stuff for review, which freaked people out because they don't want their private stuff being read (which is understandable IMO no matter what the writing is). There were also some other security problems that turned a lot of people off. No idea how it's doing these days. It was fun if you approached it like a text game where anything could happen, I can't imagine using it for any kind of serious writing.
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Jan 8, 2024 15:28
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Picked up Transistor for cheap, bounced off it after an hour or so. Kind of interesting to see elements they'd take into Hades I guess. Narrator boyfriend guy was annoying. I also didn't like Bastion, didn't play whatever that other strategy(?) one was
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Jan 8, 2024 16:53
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el dingo posted:Picked up Transistor for cheap, bounced off it after an hour or so. Kind of interesting to see elements they'd take into Hades I guess. Narrator boyfriend guy was annoying. It was a basketball fantasy visual novel. Yes, you read that right.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:54
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I can also recognize that D:OS2 is an objectively great game. I have put many hours into it but gently caress me I get around an hour into the second chapter after the starting island and just stop
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Jan 8, 2024 16:56
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I tried ai dungeon a while ago and it was really unplayable because it kept forgetting about things that happened in the previous scene.
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Jan 8, 2024 17:05
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el dingo posted:I can also recognize that D:OS2 is an objectively great game. I have put many hours into it but gently caress me I get around an hour into the second chapter after the starting island and just stop I didn't get past the starting island. Too big, too many people to talk to, not far enough into the game that I cared about anything any of them had to say. Games that dump you in a huge town 10 minutes in can gently caress right off.
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Jan 8, 2024 17:07
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Aramis posted:It was a basketball fantasy visual novel. Yes, you read that right. That one sounds cool to me, but I think something about Supergiant's aesthetics and sensibilities bother me and I need to accept that's on me, not them. I know it's minor, but I do have to spend hours looking at a game, so it helps if we vibe. The Darksiders series and most things Blizzard do are off-putting to me too. Disco Pope fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 17:23
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Divinity and baldurs gate 3 would have been a lot better if there were multiple smaller areas you could travel between a la baldurs gate/icewind dale. Still enjoyed them, I was just disappointed you couldn't travel freely from place to place. Seemed like a step backwards, as if the entire world revolves around you the player. When it feels more natural when there's a whole world that doesn't care what you do to it.
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Jan 8, 2024 17:26
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Aramis posted:It was a basketball fantasy visual novel. Yes, you read that right. Don't forget "political thriller"
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Jan 8, 2024 17:49
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Disco Pope posted:The Darksiders series and most things Blizzard do are off-putting to me too. One of the most on-point comment from Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation was from his Darksiders review: "The main character looks like someone sat down, started drawing him, and then never loving stopped".
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Jan 8, 2024 17:56
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Aramis posted:One of the most on-point comment from Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation was from his Darksiders review: Do I recall correctly that the guy behind the Battle Chasers comics did the character design on that? I always felt they combined the worst of both anime and 90s superhero design in one package.
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Jan 8, 2024 17:59
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Disco Pope posted:Do I recall correctly that the guy behind the Battle Chasers comics did the character design on that? I always felt they combined the worst of both anime and 90s superhero design in one package. it was joe madureria yeah
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Jan 8, 2024 18:08
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You mean you people don't wear size XXXXXXL gloves and boots all the time? Oh and a hooded cloak. Can't forget about those.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:07
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I genuinely liked Darksiders; I thought it was a better Zelda-style game than OoT  too bad about the sequels 
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Jan 8, 2024 19:15
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Vampire Panties posted:I genuinely liked Darksiders; I thought it was a better Zelda-style game than OoT I remember digging it as basically Zelda on my 360(?) but finding its aesthetic unappealing. Game itself was fine though.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:36
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One of the sequels I thought was fun or on the right track... Then I picked up my second treasure thing and realized they stuffed a random loot treadmill into the game and uninstalled.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:44
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Darksiders feels like OoT not at all.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:28
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Gaius Marius posted:A lot of strategy games are like that where they're reviewed glowingly by critics not deep into the genre and for so little time that the actual content on the review makes no mention of glaring flaws that the community will find in days. Ah, welcome to the "gamely doodle around with a few buttons and call it that" era which is how they reviewed grog wargames back in the day.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:16
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I have covid and am locked in a room for 5 days with a 3ds. I have a regular ds multi-cart with like 600 games on it. Any recommendations? I’m getting into Dragon Quest 4 but im looking for other opinions.
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Jan 9, 2024 02:15
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