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Crab Dad posted:Charging the market rate for food? What is this a free democratic state? I loving hate government subsidies because the same people who get them in the states are first to whine about welfare. germany isnt an american state. also keeping the costs down for the consumer is the goal, corporations dont want to lose their cut, so if farmers start charging more for the food, they are going to raise prices. food is expensive enough right now, we dont need to do anything to increase prices. subsidies arent the best answer but its a decent stop-gap when you need prevent prices from raising and youre too scared to actually punish corporations
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Jan 8, 2024 22:09
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My Spirit Otter posted:germany isnt an american state. Oh my bad I thought we fought a war over this. Anyways large farmers are the biggest mooches and are template for modern corporate welfare.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:29
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Crab Dad posted:Oh my bad I thought we fought a war over this. The average German farm is 150 acres, which is less than .25 square miles. We aren't talking about massive operations here. psydude fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 22:36
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facialimpediment posted:uh this doesn't sound good for Boeing's QA: There are people at Walmart putting together bicycles with more care and competence than these Boeing clowns.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:43
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ALAN WAKE II DLC (2024): THE SEARCH FOR MR. DOOR https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1744442166116831560
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Jan 8, 2024 22:47
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Zamujasa posted:Doing anything that inconviniences people is arguably the most effective form. They were out there, they were in the news, they caused a real, physical impact with their protests. It's arguably a great way to get people to polarize against your position. Can you name any examples where stopping interstate traffic has been used successfully to shift public opinion? Arrath posted:Sure it might not be the most effective means of protest but what is up with the general public turning into pure beacons of rage slavering for the crunch of protesters under their tires in this specific case? I think the issue is that people are already generally frustrated by traffic congestion on a day-to-day basis, just through actual use. Accidents happen, and those headaches genuinely effect commuters and impact their time with loved ones / making meetings on time / making life events etc. The idea that people are stopping traffic to "raise awareness" about a topic that has been non-stop in the news for months gets my bloodpressure up, and I don't even commute. If this was 2017 or some other time where Gaza and Israel hadn't been in the news constantly, I could see the value of raising awareness about what conditions in Gaza were like and the need to address these issues. Doing it now is just stupid. It's going to piss people off and form negative associations with the cause that's being argued for. What's more is that it isn't increasing awareness - The news story about lane closures is going to appear on the same front page that has been recording updates on Gaza on at least a weekly basis. It's basically just more obnoxious noise that carries and incredibly high price to produce. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 22:59
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Crab Dad posted:Oh my bad I thought we fought a war over this. loving lmao
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Jan 8, 2024 23:13
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Crab Dad posted:Oh my bad I thought we fought a war over this. wow so monopolies = bad?? obviously this affects corporate farms but not all farms are corporate farms and not all farmers are land barons. and who do you think would be most affected by losing subsidies, the big corporations or whomever the german version of cleetus just tryin to feed his 37 kids is? im not sure how it works in germany, but in canada, the only way a farmer is making bank is if they sell their land to a developer, which leaves fewer independent farms and allows the space for giant agri-corps to form and have even more control over your food supply My Spirit Otter fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 23:20
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"The nerve- the absolute NERVE- of these protestors!" I wail, feeling a fragment of tooth lacerate my cheek as I grind my teeth in searing, white-hot anger. "My commute! My blissful, stress-free commute to my wonderful email job! Ruined by these assholes- these IDIOTS!- daring to raise awareness about dead Palestinians blown to pieces by blocking the FREEWAY! My tax dollars PAID for this freeway, and those bombs!" I reach for my phone. I can barely work the touchscreen with my fingers, dripping with sweat tinged with the bitter yet intoxicating musk of high-octane rage. "Hello, yes, Israeli Embassy?" I shriek, my voice a caricature of itself as my vengeance-crazed lizard brain takes over. "I'm calling to tell you that I've been stuck in traffic for the past 15 minutes because of PROTESTORS and I've made up my mind- BOMB GAZA HARDER! Leave nothing that casts a shadow standing in Gaza! Make their children orphans, then make their future children orphans! Salt the ground upon which they stand, then set it ablaze! Choke the Mediterranean with their dead! Then do it to Beirut, Damascus and Tehran!" "That'll show them!" I scream into my air conditioning vent, smashing my phone's screen as I pound my fists into the steering wheel. "That'll show all of them!"
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Jan 8, 2024 23:30
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My Spirit Otter posted:wow so monopolies = bad?? People need food to survive. We can’t stop buying food. If subsidies existing are the only way farmers can survive then I suspect your economy is on shaky ground. You may have to increase import taxes to make their produce competitive. I’d much rather the people get direct assistance as opposed to the farmers.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:31
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https://twitter.com/MikeSington/status/1744442271389667731?t=P0tXBQpyIdmROaZGBJv9xQ&s=19 "THAT'S GARLAND GREEN, MAN!" E- there's owned, and then there's: https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1744478659992228093?t=RQa8mmbGF5jBQ5P3BH9iLw&s=19 CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 23:42
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Crab Dad posted:People need food to survive. We can’t stop buying food. If subsidies existing are the only way farmers can survive then I suspect your economy is on shaky ground. You may have to increase import taxes to make their produce competitive. we loving know our economy is bad, this isnt a secret!!! and increasing tariffs is just plain stupid as essentially all we grow in n.a. is corn syrup, wheat, potato, and canola. the whole goal is to make food cheaper, how the gently caress will increasing taxes on the product do anything but increase the price, as nobody in this world is willing to make less money. but again, the only way to get real change is to legislate and that aint fuckin happening because corpos have more weight to throw around, so complain about subsidies all you want, but they are currently the best way to keep commercial food affordable and prevent the corpos from owning all arable land.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:43
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CommieGIR posted:Gee, it nosedives into the ground twice killing everyone and now it's doors can fall off fleet wide. Its deicing system also makes engine parts fall off for potential loss of control of the aircraft Boeing applied for a safety waiver for that one a couple months ago
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Jan 8, 2024 23:49
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Grip it and rip it posted:Stopping interstate traffic seems like a really bad way to try and shift public opinion on a topic. I can't think of a single time it was ever helpful in the US. i can't tell if this post is serious or not
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Jan 8, 2024 23:52
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pmchem posted:i can't tell if this post is serious or not Serious or not it's sadly accurate.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:53
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3M are such dirtbags... intentionally shipped out known-faulty earplugs that I have service-connected tinnitus from (10%), and hearing loss (though rated at 0%), and the most they're offering is $10k minus 40% lawyer fees and 9% court admin fees. So $5100 in pocket for a lifetime of screeching and half-deafness I guess. To get any more compensation, their criteria is you have to have been constantly complaining to the VA and seeking treatment for tinnitus (what the hell would the treatment even be?!) in the first 2 years of leaving the service. So just about no one at all would qualify. There's an option to opt-out of the settlement and sue 3M directly, but my firm sounds super-not-into-it and said I could feel free to switch to a lawyer that's more interested. They think in all likelihood I'd get less than the $5100 if I spent years building a case and getting expert witnesses. Maybe, or maybe they just want their cut fast and easy. Is anyone else gonna tell 3M where they can stick it? It's such an insulting amount that I'd rather risk it for a small chance at them getting an actual comeuppance. Is there any firm that's less sheepish about taking 3M on directly? Even my firm said all their other vet clients are pissed. But there's nowhere to strategize or anything, just the... less coherent vets on Reddit.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:54
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Serious or not it's sadly accurate. i mean, there's this example that was critical to the success of MLK's civil rights movement? https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/selma-montgomery-march https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches granted they did get court permits
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Jan 8, 2024 23:57
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pmchem posted:i mean, there's this example that was critical to the success of MLK's civil rights movement? And they did have a foe they were marching against who was actively trying to stop them. It's not similar at all, except for both involving a lot of people on a public road.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:04
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Lol "treatment". I pursued VA treatment for tinnitus. Hearing test, consultation, the whole shebang. The treatment was a piece of paper telling me about fans or white noise generators at night to fall asleep.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:05
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Crab Dad posted:People need food to survive. We can’t stop buying food. If subsidies existing are the only way farmers can survive then I suspect your economy is on shaky ground. You may have to increase import taxes to make their produce competitive. I don't think you can really compare North American farming with European farming, both in scale and in mentality. Farming is a big industry in Germany and the local farmers have to compete with much cheaper crops from countries in Eastern and Southern Europe. The higher density of German cities also means that agricultural land is found much closer to major city centers (I lived at the end of an U-Bahn line and two buildings down from me was a literal barn that housed a tractor) and so there isn't as much of an urban/rural divide as you'd find in the US and Canada. So follows that Germans (at least the ones I knew) are very supportive of the farming industry: where I lived, most of the stores tended to source as much of their produce as possible from domestic farmers to the point where even bigger chains like Rewe and Edeke effectively only carried seasonal produce, with a few exceptions. e: Which is to say I'm not surprised that farm subsidies have more popular support in Germany than in the US. psydude fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 9, 2024 |
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Jan 9, 2024 00:06
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psydude posted:So follows that Germans (at least the ones I knew) are very supportive of the farming industry: But not that supportive if the elected officials are cutting their welfare feedbag.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:16
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Can Germany grow enough calories to feed it's populace without imports? That is to say, do they have enough farm capacity to meet the daily caloric needs of the population e without importing food. This doesn't take into account crop variety or meat vs produce balance, just whether or not they can avoid starvation solely on domestic production. I recall this was an issue towards the end of WWI, but I don't have any inkling of what the current situation is.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:17
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Crab Dad posted:But not that supportive if the elected officials are cutting their welfare feedbag. 
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Jan 9, 2024 00:19
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Crab Dad posted:But not that supportive if the elected officials are cutting their welfare feedbag. I suspect this stems from the current budget crisis, but I might be wrong. The government tried to reallocate unused COVID funds to plug a budget deficit only to have this swatted down by the supreme court. The German constitution effectively prohibits the government from running a deficit (Germans are allergic to debt, along with noise and modern technology) and so they're having to slash and burn a lot of spending.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:25
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psydude posted:I suspect this stems from the current budget crisis, but I might be wrong. The government tried to reallocate unused COVID funds to plug a budget deficit only to have this swatted down by the supreme court. The German constitution effectively prohibits the government from running a deficit (Germans are allergic to debt, along with noise and modern technology) and so they're having to slash and burn a lot of spending. All this talk of Germans slash and burning and needing more land is making me nervous.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:27
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Crab Dad posted:All this talk of Germans slash and burning and needing more land is making me nervous. I learned today that one of my German colleagues just bought a house in Poland and had to stop myself from making a Lebensraum joke.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:34
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psydude posted:I learned today that one of my German colleagues just bought a house in Poland and had to stop myself from making a Lebensraum joke.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:39
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pantslesswithwolves posted:"The nerve- the absolute NERVE- of these protestors!" I wail, feeling a fragment of tooth lacerate my cheek as I grind my teeth in searing, white-hot anger. "My commute! My blissful, stress-free commute to my wonderful email job! Ruined by these assholes- these IDIOTS!- daring to raise awareness about dead Palestinians blown to pieces by blocking the FREEWAY! My tax dollars PAID for this freeway, and those bombs!" I mean, yes? This is how people respond to those kind of situations. That's exactly the issue I'm trying to highlight. pmchem posted:i mean, there's this example that was critical to the success of MLK's civil rights movement? If you think these situations are comparable I feel like there is a major context gap that we are going to have to bridge. If someone wanted to set up a massive march for Palestine/Gaza to demonstrate the level of solidarity that exists in their community, that sounds like a good idea. Running out onto the highway to shut down traffic to "raise awareness" is not. Essentially the issue is the efficacy of communicating the popularity of the topic you are advocating for. Large, organized marches that are coordinated through grass-roots organizations are 100% a good idea. Going out and shutting down interstate traffic with 1-100 of your friends just makes people upset. It doesn't communicate to policy makers the significance of what you're demonstrating for or how widely your position has been adopted within your community. It literally just disrupts people's commutes. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 9, 2024 |
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Jan 9, 2024 00:56
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Grip it and rip it posted:It's arguably a great way to get people to polarize against your position. Can you name any examples where stopping interstate traffic has been used successfully to shift public opinion? A protest isn't supposed to be nice and courteous, that's why it's a protest. It's supposed to piss people off. The fact that the news isn't going to report on it fairly is whatever. They never would anyway. Going out and disrupting poo poo is how you make noise and draw attention to your cause. Nobody is going to care if 100 people walk around City Hall or whatever, but stopping traffic like that actually has an impact that people can't just ignore. It's the same with a strike; you're intentionally disrupting people. And just like in that case, people are going to get mad at the people striking because their Amazon package was delayed by five hours and they paid for that prime shipping, damnit.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:57
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Zamujasa posted:A protest isn't supposed to be nice and courteous, that's why it's a protest. It's supposed to piss people off. The fact that the news isn't going to report on it fairly is whatever. They never would anyway. Going out and disrupting poo poo is how you make noise and draw attention to your cause. Nobody is going to care if 100 people walk around City Hall or whatever, but stopping traffic like that actually has an impact that people can't just ignore. Yeah they can't ignore it and they resent the people and the message. I don't think it's effective advocacy.
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Jan 9, 2024 01:04
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protests: famous for never changing anything for the better, ever
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Jan 9, 2024 01:10
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psydude posted:I suspect this stems from the current budget crisis, but I might be wrong. The government tried to reallocate unused COVID funds to plug a budget deficit only to have this swatted down by the supreme court. The German constitution effectively prohibits the government from running a deficit (Germans are allergic to debt, along with noise and modern technology) and so they're having to slash and burn a lot of spending. I think COP28 also included an agreement to phase out petroleum subsidies which includes making diesel cheaper for farmers, not sure if this whole thing is related but likely to continue elsewhere since a *lot* of countries subsidize cheap fuel for farmers.
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Jan 9, 2024 01:13
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It can work if your movement has enough people and motivation to shut the highway down every single drat day until you get you want and is worse than useless otherwise. Hostage taking is effective, raising awareness is not.
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Jan 9, 2024 01:18
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Protests need to be just one portion of a comprehensive political action agenda. Just showing up and shouting on its own is meaningless, because these days your opposition has better press than you.
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Jan 9, 2024 01:19
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Grip it and rip it posted:If you think these situations are comparable I feel like there is a major context gap that we are going to have to bridge. If someone wanted to set up a massive march for Palestine/Gaza to demonstrate the level of solidarity that exists in their community, that sounds like a good idea. Running out onto the highway to shut down traffic to "raise awareness" is not. Essentially the issue is the efficacy of communicating the popularity of the topic you are advocating for. Large, organized marches that are coordinated through grass-roots organizations are 100% a good idea. Going out and shutting down interstate traffic with 1-100 of your friends just makes people upset. It doesn't communicate to policy makers the significance of what you're demonstrating for or how widely your position has been adopted within your community. It literally just disrupts people's commutes. I'm intentionally not comparing contexts. I think rushing out onto a busy interstate with no warning, planning, permission, etc., is dangerous and counterproductive. frankly I don't even know what all examples this thread is arguing about anyway. I was just responding to a specific phrase in your post, where you said: "I can't think of a single time it was ever helpful in the US." certainly, in MLK's case, it WAS helpful. it's such a famous example, it's the direct original example causing many other groups in the past 5 years to go out and cause chaos on highways. I don't see how anyone can have a discussion of protests shutting down highways without thinking of Selma. I think it's important to be aware of the good, well-orchestrated, positive original example of a type of protest (the history!) if you're not happy with how that tactic is being implemented today.
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Jan 9, 2024 02:14
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A.o.D. posted:Protests need to be just one portion of a comprehensive political action agenda. Just showing up and shouting on its own is meaningless, because these days your opposition has better press than you.
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Jan 9, 2024 02:17
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Cugel the Clever posted:This. Folks too often mistake "pissing people off" for, in itself, "advancing the cause" and then get angry when asked to reason out how precisely the action would produce the desired effect. Pissing some people off can be an effective part of a broader strategy, but rejecting questions and concerns from even people sympathetic with the cause does the cause an injustice. yes. to continue the MLK discussion, see an early discussion of his steps for nonviolent campaigns: https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html quote:In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self purification; and direct action. but, key to his process was education and negotiation before action guess it's timely that MLK day is coming up
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Jan 9, 2024 02:33
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Zamujasa posted:It's the same with a strike; you're intentionally disrupting people. And just like in that case, people are going to get mad at the people striking because their Amazon package was delayed by five hours and they paid for that prime shipping, damnit. This is why I like the story that goes around every year or two about the Japanese bus drivers striking by still driving their routes, but refusing to accept payments. Even if it's not true, it's a great concept because it highlights making the company/city the bad guy. If the drivers just refuse to drive, people would just be all "well how TF am I supposed to get to work??!" and the drivers are the bad guys. But this way, the company is the one getting hit and losing money every day. And if they lock out the drivers or whatever to stop it, then they're now the ones keeping people from getting to work. So either they lose money, or they directly piss off the average commuter, until the strike ends. That's the ideal IMO. Get that public anger directed where it belongs, instead of at you.
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Jan 9, 2024 03:20
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https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1744520768317174048?t=l_PkRFs1iWfpu4CQSvi62w&s=19 I feel like this isn't the first time we've heard that he wants everyone to lose their money so he can get his way.
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Jan 9, 2024 03:20
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The Eyes Have It posted:If the drivers just refuse to drive, people would just be all "well how TF am I supposed to get to work??!" and the drivers are the bad guys. We just had a multiple-months long teacher strike, and people support the teachers because people understand that the teachers aren’t the problem, the problem is the provincial government treating them like poo poo. Y’all got a cultural problem if people can’t understand that.
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Jan 9, 2024 03:30
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