Battletech: Clan Wolf is "Licensed to il"

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Battletech: Clan Wolf is "Licensed to il"

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

GD_American posted:

The Combine has so many interesting facets beyond the dumb samurai bullshit.

Nah, those things become marginal when people gravitate ironically and unironically to the dumb samurai bullshit

fe: drat it page snipe

# ? Jan 9, 2024 02:22

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:30

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

Kool-aid manning into the thread to say that Kurita's state mandated weeabooism is funniest thing in the entire setting (disclaimer: only know bits and pieces of the setting)

# ? Jan 9, 2024 02:36

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

I worked on my revised infantry more. But who cares about rules, here's some loving mans that illustrate the (IMO) interesting new additions

The P (Pulse Weapon) feature of the pulse laser rifles apply -2 to their attack at all ranges. The L (Light Weapon) feature divides the damage dealt against armored targets by the target's BAR (which is 10 in most situations that matter) rounding up. 0 primary weapon damage can still make an attack - it does nothing against armored targets and inflicts 1 infantry damage against other infantry.

The platoon carries 2 heavy recoilless rifles per squad, reducing the unit's MP by 1. The weapon's crew >1 applies +1 to hit at 0 hexes. The S (Special Ammo) feature allows the unit to deploy with Inferno ammo loaded, which counts as 1 inferno hit per 2 damage that the support weapon attack deals after cluster rolls. (Unlike 0 primary weapon damage, if the unit has 0 support weapons it can't make that attack at all.)

The once-mighty auto-rifle can only do 1 damage against BattleMechs, instead of being able to lay low a light 'mech in one turn. A whole platoon firing them full-auto will deal a lot of damage to other conventional infantry, though.

The I (Indirect Weapon) feature of the mortars allows it to fire indirectly as per LRMs. If loaded with Inferno ammo, 2 mortars need to hit for it to count as 1 Inferno hit. The 2 support weapons drops the unit's speed to 0 MP, which makes it have to choose between shooting and firing in a turn.

In addition to the F (Flame Weapon) feature letting the attack deal heat or damage against heat-tracking units, it now deals double damage against conventional infantry (still only 1 damage at 0 damage). Against armored targets, the L special divides the damage before the final damage or heat is determined, so the flamer pistol can only ever deal 1 heat at most to a unit.

The B (Heavy Burst) feature adds -1 to hit at range 0, negating the +1 for the bulky weapons. The B feature also adds +1d6 damage against conventional infantry, which is then doubled because of the F feature.

A primary damage of - means that the unit has been depleted so much that it doesn't have anyone carrying the primary weapon anymore, and can't make that attack at all.

The LAW is a Light/Support weapon, which gets it -1 to hit at 0 hexes and the unit can carry 2 of them per squad without losing MP.

The Light Machine Gun is a Light/Support weapon and has the B feature, so it gets a total of -2 to hit at 0 hexes, taking the base 0 to hit from a range 0 weapon to -2.

In the original rules, the infantry support PPC was a weird little guy with a note that says it counts as a 2 MP tracked vehicle. I formalized this - Heavy/Support weapons all count as 2 MP tracked vehicles that can only be used by Mechanized (Tracked) platoons, and if they have the crew to equip 2 per squad, they do not lose additional MP. Heavy/Support weapons also get +1 to hit at range 0, cumulative with +1 to hit for crew >1, so this platoon's support attack has a total of +0 to hit at range 0.

Finally, I rebuilt the MoC Assault Commandos from TRO: 3085 with my new rules. These chromed-up chooms have myomer armor implants that allow them to carry 3 support weapons with -1 crew needs per squad (1E crew becomes 1) and no MP penalties. They also have sensory implants that give them -1 to hit at all ranges and give them a 2-hex active probe (which with TacOps rules can reduce the woods penalty to-hit by -1.)

What I'm proud of is that this actually simplifies the construction process. After picking squad size, primary weapon, and number and type of support weapons, you just go from right to left on the troop tracker, marking down guys as crew, gunner, and rifleman. This tells you how many support weapons you have (+1 for each gunner) and primary weapons (+1 for everyone else). The primary weapon's damage needs to be multiplied for each number of primary guns, but there's no averaging or any other math.

Plus you can easily just convert between foot, motorized, jump, and tracked mechanized types by adjusting the MP. You can also drop the number of men down to make jump platoons or single squads without screwing up the damage calculations. Of course, Clan, Comstar, and some random other factions have squad sizes other than 7, and hover and wheeled mechanized squads are supposed to have different numbers of men per squad, so you have to rebuild the unit to account for that - no way around that. But the overall process is simpler!

Also RIP the useless disposable weapons rules from TacOps. But at least field guns and field artillery work identically

edit: If for some reason you want to build a platoon with melee weapon primaries, here are the options now:

code:

Weapon              	    	Tech		Class/Type (Damage Type)       	Base Range      Damage (each)      	Crew

Melee Weapons
Non-Lethal Melee Weapon		IS/Clan		Small/Melee (P)N		0		0.5			1
Lethal Melee Weapon		IS/Clan		Small/Melee (P)L		0		0.5			1
Vibro/Monowire Melee Weapon	IS/Clan		Small/Melee (P)			0		0.5			1

That's it. that's all the melee weapons. That's all you need, it isn't a list of like two pages of primitive weapons.

edit 2:

Here's what a melee+standard weapon unit can look like. They have two normal infantry attacks rather than a normal attack plus a support weapon:

I was kind of out of ideas for who would even have melee weapons plus anti-riot units show up a lot in the fiction so. No, I don't support using tanks or BattleMechs against rioters IRL, I'm not one of those guys with an avatar of themselves wearing sunglasses on the official BattleTech boards

BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jan 9, 2024

# ? Jan 9, 2024 02:58

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

I'm a history teacher and aware of the 'end of history' thesis, but yeah going back over and re-reading media from when I was a kid those sorts of things are more obvious. I don't remember you asking me to read that speech so apologies, maybe that was when I was being chain-probed.

It's hard to make media that is timeless or ages well, because in some ways you really have to set out to do that from the get-go. LOTR gets touted a lot as a timeless piece of media, and most attempts to say it's an allegory for WWI or whatever tend to fall flat, but JRR Tolkien set out to purposely create a national myth. Most authors just set out to write a story and that's that. That's ONE reason (Among a thousand) ASOIAF will never age as well as LOTR.

I try to turn off politicking when I read pulp fiction so I can enjoy it more, but yeah sometimes it's impossible to avoid the allegory/author biases. Sometimes I wonder if BT wouldn't benefit from a 616-timeline treatment, where a lot of the early cultural concerns couldn't be reworked (most importantly that the two asian-colored great houses aren't the absolute worst in terms of repression).

I think it'd be fun if in a hypothetical reset, the combine went from a yellow peril dictatorship to more like a shiny corporate conglomerate/zaibatsu that projects a face of diplomacy, cooperation, and profit for all while the board ruthlessly pursues its own agendas covert and overtly. Different kind of dystopia, tone down the literal bushido and have it be a stronger contrast to both the fedsuns and the capellans.

Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jan 9, 2024

# ? Jan 9, 2024 03:21

LaSquida: Nov 1, 2012; Just keep on walkin'.

GD_American posted:

The Combine has so many interesting facets beyond the dumb samurai bullshit.

What's the stuff you like?

# ? Jan 9, 2024 03:26

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

Sharkopath posted:

I think it'd be fun if in a hypothetical reset, the combine went from a yellow peril dictatorship to more like a shiny corporate conglomerate/zaibatsu that projects a face of diplomacy, cooperation, and profit for all while the board ruthlessly pursues its own agendas covert and overtly. Different kind of dystopia, tone down the literal bushido and have it be a stronger contrast to both the fedsuns and the capellans.

thinkin about those sea foxes but with old CEOs ruling instead of weirdly hypercompetent clanners

# ? Jan 9, 2024 05:27

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Loren Coleman humanized the the Capellans just fine, post-Clan Invasion pre-Civil War.

[Citation Needed]

All of the (two) pre-Civil War Capellans who weren't Sun Tzu Liao were state-trained terrorists.

# ? Jan 9, 2024 07:10

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

Activists participating in politics sometimes have to take direct action.

Also, pretty sure much of the St. Ives conflict happened before the FedCom CW started. So that's a lot of Coleman writing you're ignoring

# ? Jan 9, 2024 08:05

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

I'm not ignoring it, I just consider the FCCW to have started with the Lyran secession in 3057 and the resulting cold war / formation of the Chaos March. The St. Ives Conflict began in 3060, when Victor hosed off to deep space in one of his biggest unforced errors. He then pushed the FedCom civil war hot on his return in 3062.

# ? Jan 9, 2024 08:23

Crazy Joe Wilson: Jul 4, 2007; Justifiably Mad!

Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Loren Coleman humanized the the Capellans just fine, post-Clan Invasion pre-Civil War. It's the Dracs that need to go.

I hate the Combine faction more than I hate the Republic of the Sphere, that's how badly I want them out.

Activists participating in politics sometimes have to take direct action.

One the one hand all of the Successor States do terrorism for state ends. On the other hand the Capellans have made it official policy in the Dark Age/IlClan Era, from murdering RAF POWs routinely to nerve gas attacks on planets that dare try to rebel (New Syrtis). Also, all those Capellan POVs were CCAF soldiers, not 'activists'. Can we try not to justify terrorism against civilians, even in fiction settings?

LIke, yeah those POV humanized the Capellans, but like the DC they still remain a cartoonishly evil state, just slightly less so.

Still rooting for them to hold strong against the Wolves though.

# ? Jan 9, 2024 14:18

PhotoKirk: Jul 2, 2007; insert witty text here

Sharkopath posted:

I think it'd be fun if in a hypothetical reset, the combine went from a yellow peril dictatorship to more like a shiny corporate conglomerate/zaibatsu that projects a face of diplomacy, cooperation, and profit for all while the board ruthlessly pursues its own agendas covert and overtly. Different kind of dystopia, tone down the literal bushido and have it be a stronger contrast to both the fedsuns and the capellans.

Read Victor Vilan's books. Uncle Chandy is a wonderful break from the stodgy samurai stereotype.

# ? Jan 9, 2024 15:52

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016; What did you say the strategy was?

PhotoKirk posted:

Read Victor Vilan's books. Uncle Chandy is a wonderful break from the stodgy samurai stereotype.

they're pretty good, about to start the third one today

# ? Jan 9, 2024 15:57

Crazy Joe Wilson: Jul 4, 2007; Justifiably Mad!

Sharkopath posted:

I think it'd be fun if in a hypothetical reset, the combine went from a yellow peril dictatorship to more like a shiny corporate conglomerate/zaibatsu that projects a face of diplomacy, cooperation, and profit for all while the board ruthlessly pursues its own agendas covert and overtly. Different kind of dystopia, tone down the literal bushido and have it be a stronger contrast to both the fedsuns and the capellans.

The Bushido stuff could be how the conglomerates keep the military from trying to take over, by telling them to stay loyal to the complete figurehead of a coordinator.

Heck, the early Draconis Combine history could stay the same with the conglomerates later taking over through a series of weak coordinators and increasing reliance on the zaibatsu.

Having a Successor Lord be an actual figurehead, like not just a single weak ruler but an entire ruling house, would be very different from all the other Great Houses.

# ? Jan 9, 2024 16:15

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

One the one hand all of the Successor States do terrorism for state ends. On the other hand the Capellans have made it official policy in the Dark Age/IlClan Era, from murdering RAF POWs routinely to nerve gas attacks on planets that dare try to rebel (New Syrtis). Also, all those Capellan POVs were CCAF soldiers, not 'activists'. Can we try not to justify terrorism against civilians, even in fiction settings?

The Capellan mindset has always been that every Citizen contributes both political value and physical security to the survival of the state. It should not come as a moral shock to you that they would consider civilians of other factions to be doing the same things.

quote:

LIke, yeah those POV humanized the Capellans, but like the DC they still remain a cartoonishly evil state, just slightly less so.

Still rooting for them to hold strong against the Wolves though.

They won't. Not that superstition matters at all in the decisions of the writers' heads, but Daoshen Liao's continued avarice after taking back the Chesterton Commonality has been accruing enough negative karma for years now, enough to set up the Capellan Confederation to take a serious, Fourth Succesion War-repeating fall.

# ? Jan 9, 2024 19:46

GD_American: Jul 21, 2004; LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

In keeping with critical analysis of the older BT books that were Just Past Cold War into End of History types, we could certainly do with some new books that look at the longtime "good guys" of the setting and their inherent belief in how Our Warcrimes Were Unavoidable and Make Us Sad, Their Warcrimes Are Deliberate And Unforgivable (since we're now 2 decades into the GWOT).

MIIO black sites, Lyrans MOAB-ing "rebel villages", etc. Make the parallels as uncomfortable as possible.

# ? Jan 10, 2024 01:08

Len: Jan 21, 2008; Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!

What size decals do you use for mechs and where do I order them? Specifically looking for some gold fleur de lis

# ? Jan 10, 2024 03:23

Saint Celestine: Dec 17, 2008; Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.
- Saint Sabbat, Lessons; Grimey Drawer

Not aware of any gold fleur de lys decals that are mech sized or for battletech. Your best bet would be to find some adepta sororitas decals of the right size.

# ? Jan 10, 2024 06:46

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

There aren't going to be many gold fleur de lis on 40K decal sheets. Your best bet is probably Death Ray Designs custom decal sheets. It'll get you basically an entire 8.5" x 11" sheet of whatever design you want assuming it's not copyrighted.

https://deathraydesigns.com/product/custom-decals/

# ? Jan 10, 2024 06:54

Len: Jan 21, 2008; Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!

What size would mechs use? I assume not the 28mm?

# ? Jan 10, 2024 16:49

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

BattleTech's miniatures are at 6mm scale.

# ? Jan 10, 2024 16:54

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Len posted:

What size would mechs use? I assume not the 28mm?

Thinking about various model scales I�ve got, 32mm would probably be too big. A decal designed to be like a shoulder pad marking for a 28mm human-sized figure would probably be close though.

e: if you�ve got a flat panel to put it on.

# ? Jan 10, 2024 18:53

Crazy Joe Wilson: Jul 4, 2007; Justifiably Mad!

Question about the upcoming BattleTech universe book. Will only the limited edition book have all the cool cutout transparent pages and stuff, or will the regular edition have it too?

# ? Jan 10, 2024 20:46

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

I started working on some opposition for the Kuritans, in this case FRR. I tried painting 1st Tyr, they looked bad. Gunzburg Eagles, canonically an assault only formation but I like the paint scheme, so bollocks to that. And even an assault centred mech formation needs a few lighter mechs around too, right? If I end up liking it I can add heavier mechs later.

I'll add some gold/bronze accents too.

Scanned the LFGS and the only lance they have in stock that would not be a duplicate for me is the IS heavy battle star (Axman, Bushwacker, Cataphract, Nightstar). That's mostly typically Lyran mechs right? Not sure if it would be super useful, though I somehow like the look of the Cataphract. I am starting to think of bunching together a lot of "bad looking mechs" into a pirate outfit. The Banshee I got have the same kind of curiously evil energy IMHO. It just looks like a straight up rear end in a top hat somehow.

E: other mechs in my painting queue that have the same kind of bully energy and that are not consigned to a specific lance yet are a hunchback and an Awesome.

lilljonas fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 10, 2024

# ? Jan 10, 2024 23:41

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

The Gunzberg Eagles were like the Davion Heavy Guards, their weight ratio is just tilted to one side but they still have some lighter support units. The 1st Tyr is the one that's literally "assault mechs ONLY."

# ? Jan 11, 2024 00:29

Der Waffle Mous: Nov 27, 2009; In the grim future, there is only commerce.

GD_American posted:

In keeping with critical analysis of the older BT books that were Just Past Cold War into End of History types, we could certainly do with some new books that look at the longtime "good guys" of the setting and their inherent belief in how Our Warcrimes Were Unavoidable and Make Us Sad, Their Warcrimes Are Deliberate And Unforgivable (since we're now 2 decades into the GWOT).

MIIO black sites, Lyrans MOAB-ing "rebel villages", etc. Make the parallels as uncomfortable as possible.

This was a lot of the jihad sourcebook fluff.

# ? Jan 11, 2024 00:29

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

I've been adding to my light mech collection. Here are a Valkyrie and a Stinger. I'm thinking of rounding out my lights with a Javelin and a Mongoose next. Any other classic lights that I'm forgetting (edit: I should mention I have all the most common 3025 ones I think: Locust, Jenner, Wasp, Commando, Spider, Panther)? What about modern ones? Inner Sphere or Clan recommendations are both fine.

Orange and blue are currently my favorite colors to paint, but getting the orange bright is a bit tricky.

Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jan 11, 2024

# ? Jan 11, 2024 00:47

GD_American: Jul 21, 2004; LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Der Waffle Mous posted:

This was a lot of the jihad sourcebook fluff.

Hmm that's a hole in my collection I'll look at, thanks

# ? Jan 11, 2024 00:56

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Atlas Hugged posted:

I've been adding to my light mech collection. Here are a Valkyrie and a Stinger. I'm thinking of rounding out my lights with a Javelin and a Mongoose next. Any other classic lights that I'm forgetting (edit: I should mention I have all the most common 3025 ones I think: Locust, Jenner, Wasp, Commando, Spider, Panther)? What about modern ones? Inner Sphere or Clan recommendations are both fine.

Orange and blue are currently my favorite colors to paint, but getting the orange bright is a bit tricky.

I like the Incubus, Howler, and Hankyu from the Clan lights. The 3050 Omnis are great too. The Falcon is a fun weird IS light, the Wolfhound is a classic if you haven't got one, and then there's a bunch like the Fireball, Raptor, Flea etc that are basically "what if a Locust but marginally different?" but some of them look really stylish while being completely terrible.

# ? Jan 11, 2024 02:12

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Arquinsiel posted:

I like the Incubus, Howler, and Hankyu from the Clan lights. The 3050 Omnis are great too. The Falcon is a fun weird IS light, the Wolfhound is a classic if you haven't got one, and then there's a bunch like the Fireball, Raptor, Flea etc that are basically "what if a Locust but marginally different?" but some of them look really stylish while being completely terrible.

I don't have any of those Clan mechs or a Falcon or Fireball. I grabbed a Raptor ages ago because it looked neat. The Flea is in the Mercenaries box, so I'll hold off on that, and I have a couple of Wolfhounds at this point as well. That should give me some ideas to work with, so thanks! I'll add those five to my shopping list.

# ? Jan 11, 2024 02:21

Crazy Joe Wilson: Jul 4, 2007; Justifiably Mad!

New release from CGL incoming, Savannah Masters?

# ? Jan 12, 2024 00:15

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Like a box of 100 of them? Fuckin' sold

# ? Jan 12, 2024 00:41

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

Yeah there better be a shitload of them in there considering IWM sells them for less than two bucks each.

# ? Jan 12, 2024 01:01

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

Der Waffle Mous posted:

This was a lot of the jihad sourcebook fluff.

You don't even have to go that far for black-hat Davions and Steiners.

Just look to the Republic of the Sphere for the nice politically-kosher literal ethnic cleansing of Prefecture civilians once David Lear felt like he had enough resources.

# ? Jan 12, 2024 02:14

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Defiance Industries posted:

Yeah there better be a shitload of them in there considering IWM sells them for less than two bucks each.

It looks like two per base, two bases per box.

# ? Jan 12, 2024 02:26

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Strobe posted:

It looks like two per base, two bases per box.

Oh, that sucks. I wasn't seriously expecting a hundred or even a dozen, but they could have put four bases in there. Why two per base? They are deployed as one base per vehicle! There is no situation where that represents something you actually deploy. That's really annoying.

edit: I get it's not a wysiwyg game, and I usually often use cardboard tokens myself except for my favorites, but come the gently caress on - at least sell us something that represents what is actually on the battlefield.

BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jan 12, 2024

# ? Jan 12, 2024 13:12

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

I'm not sure where the "two per base" is coming from, I only see one each on with what looks like two distinct bases. It's hard to tell since the picture quality is so poo poo.

They also look significantly larger than the tiny little pewter scooters IWM sells.

We haven't seen how Catalyst is going to handle vehicle salvage boxes, but my suspicion is: 1 pair of vehicles per box.

# ? Jan 12, 2024 14:45

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

I was looking around for infantry, and found that the original metal ones from Ral Partha Europe looks surprisingly affordable. The pics are barely legible though, are they ok? Or are you better off looking for a third party option?

# ? Jan 12, 2024 14:49

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

lilljonas posted:

I was looking around for infantry, and found that the original metal ones from Ral Partha Europe looks surprisingly affordable. The pics are barely legible though, are they ok? Or are you better off looking for a third party option?

I got these guys from Fortress.

https://www.fortressminiaturesandgames.com/products/standard-infantry-platoon

I have them set up to be Sq6, but there�s no reason you couldn�t play around with how many are on a base.

# ? Jan 12, 2024 14:54

a cyborg mug: Mar 8, 2010

PoptartsNinja posted:

We haven't seen how Catalyst is going to handle vehicle salvage boxes, but my suspicion is: 1 pair of vehicles per box.

I thiiiiink this was confirmed at some point

# ? Jan 12, 2024 14:57

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:30

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

lilljonas posted:

I was looking around for infantry, and found that the original metal ones from Ral Partha Europe looks surprisingly affordable. The pics are barely legible though, are they ok? Or are you better off looking for a third party option?

I'm a fan of GHQ's metal infantry, they're really affordable and the 21st Century Modern French Infantry in particular make great Marik stand-ins (and look great overall); but most of their other modern infantry would fit in without anyone batting an eyelash

# ? Jan 12, 2024 16:28

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