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zimbomonkey posted:who cares what it looks like? if you think he's cooked you trade him, if you think he's good you keep him. that last paragraph is a hair away from a sunk cost fallacy. his skill is not determined by what we gave up for him and the value of keeping him is not affected by what others will think if we let him go. If someone else wants to make that mistake, let them. It’s not sunk cost if you have no option. In fact doing it without a better option is just stupidity
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Jan 9, 2024 15:52
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I think it's overwhelmingly likely that Bryce is a lost cause. But the rest of the team is awful too and unless they have a miracle plan to acquire a capable starter they might as well run him back to either improve or wash out completely. In the meantime restock the rest of the team and look towards '25.
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Jan 9, 2024 16:54
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Bryce Young or Trey Lance?
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Jan 9, 2024 17:07
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Intruder posted:Teams aren't going to write Bryce off after a bad rookie season on a dogshit team when he was entering the draft as at worst a top 5 pick Should he have been? I don’t think so Tim.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:13
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Should he have been? I don’t think so Tim. If the Panthers didn't draft him where would he have gone?
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Jan 9, 2024 17:18
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:If the Panthers didn't draft him where would he have gone? There’s a reason those teams were drafting 1-5. I cannot wrap my head around the idea of wee Bryce being a top pick lol. It feels like one of those situations where it only makes sense if you’re massively overthinking things and I guess there’s systemic institutional overthinking of things in certain front offices. It’s like the mirror of drafting tall white guys that “look good” really high. Bryce is alternate universe Paxton Lynch.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:23
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If you can wrangle a Day Two or better pick from another team for Young, you take it in a heartbeat. Otherwise, yeah, might as well keep him on the roster and let him compete with Dalton for a starting job. Just don't do what the Jets did and force the team to roll with an-almost-certain bust with no viable escape hatch.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:27
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Kurt Warner is a POS and he's available. Maybe Carolina could get him and he could blow out his achilles on the first series, too.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:34
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Kurt Warner’s kind of a Jesus freak but he seems like an okay fella
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Jan 9, 2024 17:50
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Diva Cupcake posted:I hope the kid learns how to play football but I’ve seen enough disaster level rookie QB seasons to know that they pretty much never do. Plenty of QBs bounce back from terrible rookie seasons. It's insanely hard to play QB in the NFL and it takes time to adapt. He's also not too short that's a weird thing to say considering that wasn't his problem this year. He had WRs that were put into a speed route offense that couldn't run those routes fast enough because they're all old and poo poo. He had to run for his life all the time because they were always covered. They had the absolute worst WR group in the league and it's astounding Thielen even put up the stats he did. I don't think he had problems seeing over the line or having his passes batted. He was tied with Mahomes and Josh Allen as the 30th most batted down QB this year with 6 compared to Howell and Mayfield with 19.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:53
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fsif posted:Just don't do what the Jets did and force the team to roll with an-almost-certain bust with no viable escape hatch. I think the difference is the Panthers are not expecting to compete for the division next year.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:54
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Waltzing Along posted:Kurt Warner is a POS and he's available. Maybe Carolina could get him and he could blow out his achilles on the first series, too. Kurt Warner takes the stray for Bryce Young who is extremely short and slender.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:22
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Doltos posted:Plenty of QBs bounce back from terrible rookie seasons. It's insanely hard to play QB in the NFL and it takes time to adapt. I think, all things considering, Thielen being as productive as he was is one of the few positives the Panthers can take away from this season and build on. If the Panthers can get a WR with some speed, that connection Thielen and Bryce have might actually be productive next season
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Jan 9, 2024 18:22
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I wouldn't count on Thielen for anything at his age, even after this season.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:23
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Doltos posted:Plenty of QBs bounce back from terrible rookie seasons. It's insanely hard to play QB in the NFL and it takes time to adapt. He’s not getting passes batted down because he’s not even able to get out throws that could be batted lol
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Jan 9, 2024 18:27
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Could Bryce become like a spot thrower like Tua?
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Jan 9, 2024 18:32
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The Cardinals immediately moved on from Rosen and Im pretty sure a lot of folk here were going through this exact same discussion when it happened. Bryce is bad and its fine to move on from him. Will they land a Murray? Prolly not, but getting any return out of him is better than the negative value he currently brings to the Panthers. Let some other team perform sunk cost gymnastics instead.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:40
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:He’s not getting passes batted down because he’s not even able to get out throws that could be batted lol He had the 12th most attempts in the league
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Jan 9, 2024 18:42
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:He’s not getting passes batted down because he’s not even able to get out throws that could be batted lol Yeah no kidding. Can’t have anything batted down when you’re immediately sprinting right and chucking it five yards over a receivers head out of bounds. And Bryce clearly had trouble seeing over the line, from the first game even. He couldn’t have made Bates interceptions easier if he handed the ball off to him. And his inability to see fucks with his mechanics. He’s constantly on tip toe, his drop back keeps him looking at the whole field, and he even peaks back during handoffs during playaction. Maybe that’s workable if you have incredible timing, arm strength, or elite level processing and grasp of the offense but Bruce doesn’t have any of those. Or situational awareness. Or any sense of urgency.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:43
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pasaluki posted:Could Bryce become like a spot thrower like Tua? Mike Martz snaps to attention.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:43
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Just imagine Bryce in a Martz offense.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:45
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Doltos posted:He had the 12th most attempts in the league Is this broken down by quarter anywhere? I wouldnt be surprised if half of his yards, attempts, completions came in the fourth when teams just dropped into prevent. No matter the game situation he was more than happy to just dump it off underneath for five yards in the middle of the field.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:48
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i am concerned that fiz is going to try and murder bryce young irl
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Jan 9, 2024 18:50
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FizFashizzle posted:Is this broken down by quarter anywhere? I wouldnt be surprised if half of his yards, attempts, completions came in the fourth when teams just dropped into prevent. No but tangently related if anyone has an uber stats site that has a ton of advanced statistics without a paywall holler at ya boy
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Jan 9, 2024 18:50
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Master Stur posted:The Cardinals immediately moved on from Rosen and Im pretty sure a lot of folk here were going through this exact same discussion when it happened. Bryce is bad and its fine to move on from him. Will they land a Murray? Prolly not, but getting any return out of him is better than the negative value he currently brings to the Panthers. Let some other team perform sunk cost gymnastics instead. The Cardinals had the number 1 pick in the draft. If the Panthers had the number 1 pick then yea, absolutely, draft Williams and move on. Unfortunately despite being the worst team in the league they don’t have the number 1 pick because they already spent it on Bryce Young, so they might as well see if they can salvage him.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:52
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Doltos posted:He had the 12th most attempts in the league My point was about what kind of attempts those were. He’s not even making throws over engaged blockers that might get batted down.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:00
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:My point was about what kind of attempts those were. He’s not even making throws over engaged blockers that might get batted down. I think it's perfectly fine to escape a pocket and throw a pass in the NFL, you'll find that Mahomes does the exact same thing.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:02
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Doltos posted:I think it's perfectly fine to escape a pocket and throw a pass in the NFL, you'll find that Mahomes does the exact same thing. ????? I don’t disagree ??????
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Jan 9, 2024 19:06
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Doltos posted:Plenty of QBs bounce back from terrible rookie seasons. I guess it depends on how you define "bounce back," but there really aren't many QBs with terrible rookie seasons that become solid starters or better. This comes up every offseason and you can't get through one hand until you're starting to count QBs that were drafted nearly two decades ago.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:08
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Doltos posted:I think it's perfectly fine to escape a pocket and throw a pass in the NFL, you'll find that Mahomes does the exact same thing. he usually completes them though
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Jan 9, 2024 19:09
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I'm confused. So apparently he's too short but doesn't get balls batted down, he doesn't attempt those throws even though he's in the top half of the league in attempts, and we're demonizing him because he rolls out of a zone blocking pocket that hasn't been effective all season with WRs that are blanketed immediately despite other QBs having the same exact playstyle.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:10
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fsif posted:I guess it depends on how you define "bounce back," but there really aren't many QBs with terrible rookie seasons that become solid starters or better. This comes up every offseason and you can't get through one hand until you're starting to count QBs that were drafted nearly two decades ago. That was my thought as well. Who are all these great QB's that had disastrous rookie seasons? And please don't tell me Peyton Manning.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:10
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According to that chart someone posted a few days back I'd say Jared Goff and Alex Smith
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Jan 9, 2024 19:12
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Trevor Lawrence, kind of. I know TFF is down on him but I still think he's good, he's just very hurt right now
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Jan 9, 2024 19:12
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fsif posted:I guess it depends on how you define "bounce back," but there really aren't many QBs with terrible rookie seasons that become solid starters or better. This comes up every offseason and you can't get through one hand until you're starting to count QBs that were drafted nearly two decades ago. There’s not many QBs who become solid starters or better, period. The odds of drafting one are quite low. Trading for one happens even less often. These are all low probability events and the Panther’s don’t even have a first round pick so their odds are even worse.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:14
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Goff is the go-to example for an absolutely terrible QB who made good. Though not good enough for team to not one to move on eventually, even though they extended him
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Jan 9, 2024 19:16
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:That was my thought as well. Who are all these great QB's that had disastrous rookie seasons? And please don't tell me Peyton Manning. You're not allowed to say Peyton Manning even though he's an example? That's kind of selective bias right there. List of QBs that had a near statistical season as Bryce their rookie year or way worse that are starting right now: Jared Goff Josh Allen Matthew Stafford Jalen Hurts Geno Smith Kirk Cousins Joe Flacco Ryan Tannehill Historical QBs that had a worse rookie season: Peyton Manning Steve Young Alex Smith Troy Aikman Terry Bradshaw Should I keep going or is this going to change your mind at all?
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Jan 9, 2024 19:16
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Doltos posted:I'm confused. So apparently he's too short but doesn't get balls batted down, He’s not capable of making those throws which limits the offense quote:he doesn't attempt those throws even though he's in the top half of the league in attempts, Having a ton of attempts doesn’t mean much if they are bad percentage throws or stuff that has to be schemed for his limitations quote:and we're demonizing him because he rolls out of a zone blocking pocket that hasn't been effective all season quote:
Other QBs do this as a weapon not as a response In conclusion, CJ Stroud was right there lmao
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Jan 9, 2024 19:16
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:He’s not capable of making those throws which limits the offense Hearsay without any proof A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Having a ton of attempts doesn’t mean much if they are bad percentage throws or stuff that has to be schemed for his limitations He was .2 below a 60% completion. I don't know what bad percentage throws you're talking about. A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Some of which can be attributed to his inability to see types of reads, his limitations are partially to blame here I'd argue from the tape I've seen that he's perfectly fine at reading a defense and processing it. A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Other QBs do this as a weapon not as a response What A Buffer Gay Dude posted:In conclusion, CJ Stroud was right there lmao I do agree with this tho
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Jan 9, 2024 19:18
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Doltos posted:You're not allowed to say Peyton Manning even though he's an example? That's kind of selective bias right there. Eh, I feel like this is slightly disingenuous because for someone who loves to watch film and talk about actually watching players play as much as you do, you really think their performances were on par with Young's? I don't recall any of those guys looking as absolutely awful, hopeless, and completely out of place in the NFL like Young has this season, do you?
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Jan 9, 2024 19:20
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