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klen dool
May 7, 2007

Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Progressive JPEG posted:

this is any institution, including treaties themselves

You've lost me, sorry

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redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

sebmojo posted:

Laws are just words on a page,, man

unarguable fact

Fumblemouse
Mar 21, 2013


STANDARD
DEVIANT
Grimey Drawer

redleader posted:

unarguable fact

What about when they are unjust words on a page?

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

Good article, a shame no one is going to read it on Christmas eve
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/505478/act-s-attempt-at-regulatory-reform-in-nz-has-failed-3-times-already-what-s-different-now

Seymour's regulatory responsibility legislation sucks, unsurprisingly

Content to Hover
Sep 11, 2009

voiceless anal fricative posted:

Good article, a shame no one is going to read it on Christmas eve
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/505478/act-s-attempt-at-regulatory-reform-in-nz-has-failed-3-times-already-what-s-different-now

Seymour's regulatory responsibility legislation sucks, unsurprisingly

Having no life, I did! One takeaway I hadn't considered much before reading it was that Seymour may not actually get it. On some level National want stability and it could die in select committee.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

klen dool posted:

You've lost me, sorry

lmgtfy

An institution is a humanly devised structure of rules and norms that shape and constrain individual behavior.[1][2][3][4] All definitions of institutions generally entail that there is a level of persistence and continuity.[5] Laws, rules, social conventions and norms are all examples of institutions.[6] Institutions vary in their level of formality and informality.[7][8]

Institutions are a principal object of study in social sciences such as political science, anthropology, economics, and sociology (the latter described by Émile Durkheim as the "science of institutions, their genesis and their functioning").[9] Primary or meta-institutions are institutions such as the family or money that are broad enough to encompass sets of related institutions. Institutions are also a central concern for law, the formal mechanism for political rule-making and enforcement. Historians study and document the founding, growth, decay and development of institutions as part of political, economic and cultural history.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Progressive JPEG posted:

lmgtfy

An institution is a humanly devised structure of rules and norms that shape and constrain individual behavior.[1][2][3][4] All definitions of institutions generally entail that there is a level of persistence and continuity.[5] Laws, rules, social conventions and norms are all examples of institutions.[6] Institutions vary in their level of formality and informality.[7][8]

Institutions are a principal object of study in social sciences such as political science, anthropology, economics, and sociology (the latter described by Émile Durkheim as the "science of institutions, their genesis and their functioning").[9] Primary or meta-institutions are institutions such as the family or money that are broad enough to encompass sets of related institutions. Institutions are also a central concern for law, the formal mechanism for political rule-making and enforcement. Historians study and document the founding, growth, decay and development of institutions as part of political, economic and cultural history.

To put it another way, we already have people who decide the law doesn't apply to them because they read a thing on the internet and they are called sovereign citizens

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

sebmojo posted:

To put it another way, we already have people who decide the law doesn't apply to them because they read a thing on the internet and they are called sovereign citizens

no those are bitcoiners

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Progressive JPEG posted:

no those are bitcoiners

They're the same picture.meme

klen dool
May 7, 2007

Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Progressive JPEG posted:

lmgtfy

An institution is a humanly devised structure of rules and norms that shape and constrain individual behavior.[1][2][3][4] All definitions of institutions generally entail that there is a level of persistence and continuity.[5] Laws, rules, social conventions and norms are all examples of institutions.[6] Institutions vary in their level of formality and informality.[7][8]

Institutions are a principal object of study in social sciences such as political science, anthropology, economics, and sociology (the latter described by Émile Durkheim as the "science of institutions, their genesis and their functioning").[9] Primary or meta-institutions are institutions such as the family or money that are broad enough to encompass sets of related institutions. Institutions are also a central concern for law, the formal mechanism for political rule-making and enforcement. Historians study and document the founding, growth, decay and development of institutions as part of political, economic and cultural history.

I'm afraid I may have not made my point very clear since this - while interesting - isn't what I was talking about at all.

I mean that (from Wikipedia) "Policing by consent" indicates that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, their integrity in exercising those powers and their accountability for doing so.

Now, the nzpolice cannot be accountable to the portion of the population who are supposed to have been enjoying sovereignty as the police are not accountable to them, so they can't be "policing by consent" as they claim to be.

Now I suppose you could make the argument that since we have Maori seats in parliament (or other cogovernance arrangements) that constitutes a practical facsimile of sovereignty - close enough such we couol consider the police to be policing by consent. I could be amenable to that argument. It's just an idle thought experiment prompted by imaging possible outcomes of the government eroding how much effect the treaty has on the way things work.


Edit: oh lol it was a joke

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









You're talking nonsense imo, but merry Christmas anyway

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters
the nz police, famously accountable though that bastion of impartial integrity, the ipca

klen dool
May 7, 2007

Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.
Lol yep

Spyderizer
Feb 18, 2004
Our top story tonight is a fire alarm went off at Westfield.

Also lol at people driving into a busy mall carpark on boxing day, you've done this to yourselves.

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

little pharma having a normal one, threatening to cut Creative NZ funding because he doesn't like someone's poetry
https://www.act.org.nz/act_condemns_60_000_poetry_award

Spyderizer
Feb 18, 2004
Must be quite exciting for them when they find something they can use to frighten the pearl clutchers.

Confusedslight
Jan 9, 2020
Well 2023 could have gone better.

victorious
Jul 2, 2007

As a youth I prayed, "Give me chastity and continence, but not yet."
You're telling me. Capped off the year by coming home to find we've been burgled. :toot:

klen dool
May 7, 2007

Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.
Ooooh nooooo how bad

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



ah poo poo that sucks.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters
this is all luxo's fault

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

redleader posted:

this is all luxo's fault

i thought national were gonna be tough on crime, why is this still happening????

Booty Pageant
Apr 20, 2012
don't worry when psudofeds hit the shelves again she'll be alright

Spyderizer
Feb 18, 2004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De4_ZqMwuOg

Content to Hover
Sep 11, 2009
Somewhat unimpressed with RNZ lately.

Title of article
ED reports huge drop in abuse incidents

Content of article
"We don't even incident report a lot of the things that happen, just because it's now become such a commonplace scenario."

klen dool
May 7, 2007

Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.
So the implication is that the abuse incidents rate has risen so high they don't bother to measure it?

I'm suspicious that a ED would decline to measure this stuff.

Charles 2 of Spain
Nov 7, 2017

The ED doctor is in Hawkes Bay but the drop in incidents is about Middlemore.

Charles 2 of Spain
Nov 7, 2017

Speaking of cool articles
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/506183/kiwi-lotto-king-five-time-lotto-winner-reveals-secret-formula-to-pocketing-millions

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

quote:

In 2018 Massetti was accused of assaulting his partner Danielle Prebble. When she failed to appear in court, the charges were dropped.

That led to bizarre scenes outside the Sydney courthouse after the prosecutor revealed police had been unable to locate Prebble. He told the court that her mobile phone had been switched off and she'd told police that she had left for New Zealand.

Moments later, as Massetti walked free outside court, Prebble was there to meet him and the pair embraced and walked away hand-in-hand.

Perfectly normal, perfectly healthy.

Varkk
Apr 17, 2004

Then later in the article they did it all again. Just without the embracing part after the charges were dropped.

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK
I just learnt that both eftpos networks are owned by overseas entities. Has anything in this country not been pried off the foundations and sold off?

Confusedslight
Jan 9, 2020
New Zealand operates as a money extractor for Australia and other countries and nothing will ever change.

Booty Pageant
Apr 20, 2012
we just have to learn chinese to extract/marry rich chinese tourists/students

i personally know of two quite affluent pr holders, one wants a kid, the other doesn't!!

Confusedslight
Jan 9, 2020
Hashtag try not to cause any scandals nz leftie politician challenge

The Rabbi T. White
Jul 17, 2008





Ah ffs. I know shoplifting is praxis, but maybe not if you’re an MP?

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Link?

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/506410/green-mp-golriz-ghahraman-stands-aside-from-portfolios-after-being-accused-of-shoplifting

Finally we can have a green party justice spokesperson who does their job.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Bizarre

Trompe le Monde
Nov 4, 2009

hopefully this is a big nothingburger but if not all i can say is a big hearty lol

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exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.
elizabeth kerekere sends her regards...

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