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Shawn Michaels went on a major PPV and threw a temper tantrum against Hulk Hogan and that sure wasn't 1997 on top of tons of backstage fights and grudges held in WWE.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:21
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Alaois posted:Bro how can you say Vince would have 100% nipped it in the bud and then in the same sentence reference an incredibly high profile example of a time he didnt do that
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Jan 8, 2024 20:22
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C. Everett Koop posted:There was a thought that the initial All In was in Chicago so that Punk would be on the card, and when he wasn't it allowed Colt to be in the pre-show battle royale. Even after that, Colt wasn't one of AEW's initial signings with the potential idea that they would bring in Punk; when Colt finally showed up the immediate general consensus was that AEW wasn't going to be bringing in Punk after all. you do NOT in fact have to hand it to Vince McMahon
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Jan 8, 2024 20:24
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History Comes Inside! posted:I still don’t know what the account sharing thing was meant to tell us about him. * Look at the mama's boy, living in his parents' basement or something. * He was hiding money somehow (in a domestic bank account with his name on it that he shared the details of in discovery?!?). * He had more money than he was letting on to Punk and Punk felt that he should have been able to contribute to the lawsuit defense as a result. (I know he's told people this privately, which, even if true, conveniently ignores that there's a big difference between "having money" and "having enough money to defend a defamation lawsuit that wasn't your fault in the first place." Punk's legal bill ended up being $1.2 million, none of which he was able to recoup, although he did insist early on that he wanted it to go to trial.) Shard posted:In his rant at the scrum Punk said he didn't understand why anyone would think he had anything to do with it and then went on a rant about how much of a bad human colt cabana was and how he wanted to do with his account sharing rear end. He gave all the reasons his boss might keep colt away from him. * Though he's also talent in a limited capacity, Cabana's main job in AEW is as a producer/coach/road agent, where he's well-liked by those he works with. * CM Punk comes into the company. On his first night in, he makes (in response to a question from me about if he was hopeful that he'd be able to bury the hatchet with those he had past heat with, oops) a pointed comment about not having any issues with anyone who was in the building that night. Cabana wasn't there, as he was booked at Gathering of the Juggalos, the timing of which was a coincidence since he works the Gathering shows every year and it was booked before the Punk stuff was happening. * Punk ends up doing commentary on a match where he very obviously makes a point of not mentioning Cabana, who's at ringside. * Cabana goes on a trip to Australia to film Young Rock, which gets extended due to filming delays. * A week before he returns, Ace Steel, his and Punk's original trainer who's now firmly in The Punk Camp, is hired as a producer. * Cabana returns, works one week of TV, and disappears, not being flown to TV, perhaps initially because his contract is coming due. * Cabana is offered a new deal, but it's soon rescinded without explanation. He ends up getting the contract when the Bucks and others push the idea that he made sense for ROH as a wrestler and producer. * Cabana returns at Supercard of Honor, where he makes a point of hugging the announcers and everyone is noticeably emotional. * Over the next several months, Cabana sits at home on gardening leave, doing nothing other than working ROH PPVs, even though all of the other "earmarked for ROH" talent was eventually brought to TV. He's not even brought to the AEW Dark tapings in Orlando, which Punk is not at, features the "ROH" talent a bit, etc. He only works overseas AEW exhibition matches at video game conventions. That was where everything stood as of Brawl Out. Based on that, of course everyone concluded that he was being kept away from Punk and, to a lesser extent, AEW shows proper.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:29
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Alaois posted:Bro how can you say Vince would have 100% nipped it in the bud and then in the same sentence reference an incredibly high profile example of a time he didnt do that Vince in '97 was scared to death of losing Michaels to WCW, since he didn't know Michaels was going to get hurt and Austin was going to go nuclear and end his money woes. As for the Hogan match, Michaels basically turned back face immediately after and everyone acted like it never happened and no rematches were ever teased. No one's ever been able to explain Vince's soft spot for Michaels, outside of the WCW fears, and I'm not going to be that one.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:33
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And how long was Bill DeMott working as head trainer?
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Jan 8, 2024 20:43
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Lurks With Wolves posted:The part I really disagreed with was that AEW was leaving so much money on the table by not forcing a Punk/Elite feud. Because yeah, Shawn and Bret had a good match at Survivor Series until the screwjob blew everything up, but that's not the part I'd be worried about. It's the TV leading up to that feud where you had episode plotlines like "DX framed the Hart Foundation for being massively racist" where both sides just kind of hate each other in a way that's uncomfortable to watch. In retrospect, it was weird that Punk really wanted that Punk/Elite feud considering his feelings on the Hangman match.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:47
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C. Everett Koop posted:Vince in '97 was scared to death of losing Michaels to WCW, since he didn't know Michaels was going to get hurt and Austin was going to go nuclear and end his money woes. None of this makes it less of a failure in leadership than Tony Khan also letting his big star have too much leash to escalate drama into a total disaster Vince just had the extremely situational luck that the post Montreal disaster could be woven into business that was ready to boom
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Jan 8, 2024 20:53
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Pope Corky the IX posted:He tells it like it is. "Tell me... when I'm tellin' lies." Crowd: "All~the~time!" *Clap clap clapclapclap* The337th posted:Vince just had the extremely situational luck that the post Montreal disaster could be woven into business that was ready to boom Honestly you could have just stopped after the word 'luck' because that's helped Vince more than anything save "inheriting" a giant thriving promotion with arguably wrestling's biggest star and its biggest US arenas which is also lucky now that I think about it. Sorry, whenever people yell about how Tony got handed everything and imply Vince bootstrapped or whatever it grates.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:12
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the idea that aew "fumbled" punk is hilarious when you remember everything punk did before AEW
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Jan 8, 2024 21:36
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C. Everett Koop posted:No one's ever been able to explain Vince's soft spot for Michaels He’s just a sexy boy sexy boooooy
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Jan 8, 2024 21:41
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Defenestrategy posted:I've never understood why CM Punk of all people gets treated like some sort of humongous draw. Certainly right after the pipe bomb if WWE didn't fumble his run, and certainly if wwe strapped a rocket to him instead of putting him on ECW right after coming off his indy run he'd be some sort of huge draw, but by 2022 what even is a CM Punk besides a nostalgia act for the worst era of WWE at worst and an extremely competent talker at best for WWE, and for AEW what does he do that having Kenny "By God" Omega, Mox, and Jericho don't already do, besides being insanely over in chicago. I'd say worst era in WWE was mid to late 2010s. Kinda relevant to this post, I'm a lifelong Jeff Hardy fan, and when looking for Meltzer commentary on Punk I found him commenting how Jeff was absolutely bigger and more popular than Punk ever was. Then again, Jeff apparently outsold Cena in terms of merch for one year so beating Punk isn't too surprising. But yeah, just kinda funny to look back at all the smark love for Punk as this great "professional" (as in being respectable) pro-wrestler in light of all this.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:01
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Dawgstar posted:"Tell me... when I'm tellin' lies." I always love this, Bryan reading a letter from a fan in 1999 about how Vince stumble into success despite his best efforts to the contrary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWwexgTZEzo
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Jan 8, 2024 22:11
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davidbix posted:The way I like to explain it is that even in the event Punk genuinely didn't try to ace out Cabana, Tony Khan did a great job making it look like he did. Yeah, this is the key thing to me. Maybe Punk genuinely never asked for Colt to get fired or sent home or whatever, but it doesn’t really matter. Colt clearly was put out to pasture to try to keep Punk happy, whether he actually asked for that or not. Nobody had to tell the sheets that that’s what happened, it’s obvious just watching the TV. It’s going to be even more obvious if you’re working there and can see who is or isn’t backstage on any given week.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:42
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NikkolasKing posted:I always love this, Bryan reading a letter from a fan in 1999 about how Vince stumble into success despite his best efforts to the contrary. Nearly every single success story has involved a certain degree of luck, from ridiculous to pants-on-head stupid amounts. Yes, there's talent and hard work involved, but the amount of good fortune and near-disasters and whatcouldhavebeens are infinite. Someone once told me that the road to success is lined with sure things and can't miss prospects. Makes it all the more impressive when someone/thing does make it.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:15
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Vince spent tens or hundreds of millions on objectively terrible things only tangentially related to wrestling at least twice a decade so only his entrenched advantages kept him from bankrupting himself, even if yes he certainly could have done it even worse and actually bankrupted himself. The best thing he probably ever did was consistently value other fed's tape libraries and eventually use the Internet the way it is supposed to be used and Put It All Up There. And then of course after several years of success he decided it was too good and merged with Peacock
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Jan 9, 2024 02:05
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C. Everett Koop posted:Nearly every single success story has involved a certain degree of luck, from ridiculous to pants-on-head stupid amounts. Yes, there's talent and hard work involved, but the amount of good fortune and near-disasters and whatcouldhavebeens are infinite. I don't think anyone is denying that. But the topic was Tony being handed things, like Vince wasn't also blessed. He got handed Steve Austin and The Rock. That's two ultra once-in-a-lifetime talents. Yet Austin was The Ringmaster and The Rock was Rocky "Die Rocky Die" Maivia. They loving wanted to call Stone Cold "Chilly McFreeze"! Austin of course owes a lot of his success to Vince, just like Hogan did. But at the same time Vince was blessed with so many talents, many of which he purposefully sabotaged. Folks like Rey and RVD and Bryan got over despite Vince's best efforts to the contrary, and he made sure to kill them dead even when they got on top. He's been handed so many gifts over the decades and many of them only bore fruit in spite of him, and he totally squandered others.
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Jan 9, 2024 02:11
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't think anyone is denying that. But the topic was Tony being handed things, like Vince wasn't also blessed. He got handed Steve Austin and The Rock. That's two ultra once-in-a-lifetime talents. Yet Austin was The Ringmaster and The Rock was Rocky "Die Rocky Die" Maivia. They loving wanted to call Stone Cold "Chilly McFreeze"! a very wise and sensible man once spoke publicly on this subject, noting how Vince made money in spite of himself and languished as a millionaire when he should have been a billionaire for all the advantages he had wonder what ever happened to that guy
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Jan 9, 2024 03:00
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Does anyone remember that photo of the 6-sided TNA house show ring and is able to post it? It was the tiniest ring I've ever seen, I think an average sized person laying flat on their back would have been able to touch 4 of the sides.
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Jan 9, 2024 04:06
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Can anyone post some innovative uses of the six sided ring? I didnt watch tna but I assume someone figured out something sweet to do with an extra side.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:13
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spongeh posted:Does anyone remember that photo of the 6-sided TNA house show ring and is able to post it? It was the tiniest ring I've ever seen, I think an average sized person laying flat on their back would have been able to touch 4 of the sides. I think I have it, a quick look at the folder finds a TNA house show with a tiny four sided ring and like 100 people in the crowd but I know the picture you mean.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:14
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Defenestrategy posted:Can anyone post some innovative uses of the six sided ring? I didnt watch tna but I assume someone figured out something sweet to do with an extra side. Monty Brown’s pounces were amazing in that ring E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aEdT_2wSM0
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Jan 9, 2024 06:13
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Diabolik900 posted:Yeah, this is the key thing to me. Maybe Punk genuinely never asked for Colt to get fired or sent home or whatever, but it doesn’t really matter. Colt clearly was put out to pasture to try to keep Punk happy, whether he actually asked for that or not. Nobody had to tell the sheets that that’s what happened, it’s obvious just watching the TV. It’s going to be even more obvious if you’re working there and can see who is or isn’t backstage on any given week.
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Jan 9, 2024 06:25
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Everyone knows the Steiner math promo, but was the match at sacrifice any good?
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Jan 9, 2024 09:10
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Probably better than the poster, seen here being re-used as the DVD cover.
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Jan 9, 2024 10:41
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edogawa rando posted:Probably better than the poster, seen here being re-used as the DVD cover. Man, AEW Revolution looks loving lit.
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Jan 9, 2024 10:55
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I loving love TNA's old "GrApHiC DeSiGn iS My pAsSIoN" rear end posters
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Jan 9, 2024 11:01
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ItohRespectArmy posted:the idea that aew "fumbled" punk is hilarious when you remember everything punk did before AEW Yeah, it was not a secret that Punk was a weird, unfriendly, overly confrontational guy. Even at the height of its Punk love, PSP loved repeating the stories about him ending his friendship with Hornswoggle because Hornswoggle had to replace his phone and asked Punk for the numbers of mutual friends, or the stupid LiveJournal entry where Punk almost got his rear end kicked by the cops because he and his friends got pulled over, the cops asked if he'd been using anything, and he wouldn't respond with anything except "What. Do. My. Knuckles. Say." He was a talented, charismatic jackass, but widely acknowledged as a jackass. In his WWE run and the seven years after it, it was easier to overlook those things because all people thought about was how much they wanted to see him succeed there and how hard WWE cut his legs out from under him whenever it looked like he really might. Then they intentionally fired him on his wedding day to send a message, so of course he comes off looking like "maybe he's a jerk sometimes, but he's been right about all of this," and that conveniently elides all the jerk behavior that wasn't WWE-related. His falling out with Cabana, though Punk was generally seen to be in the wrong, was treated as "well, that's Punk, what are you going to do?" And it was easy to leave it at that. Then he gets to AEW. Everyone's excited to see him back in wrestling, he's saying all the right things, and for a while it all works. But the cracks start to appear fairly quickly, until we're just a few months in and he's publicly pissed off at Hangman, who's generally considered one of the nicest guys around and who hadn't made his own disagreements with Punk public. Then Brawl Out happens, and even if you take Punk's side of the story as 100% gospel, it's still entirely his fault. People expect him to be fired, but he isn't. Instead, Tony gives him his own show, gives him creative control over it, and lets him only book the people he gets along with. And then he stops getting along with them, too! Sure, Tony does not have the ability he should have to keep his locker room under control, but that's not the issue, that's a contributing factor. When AEW is having its biggest show ever, and Punk just put things at risk because instead of prepping for the opener, he's brawling with loving Jack Perry around execs and equipment over a snide remark about glass, Punk is the issue. You can't say it's AEW cutting his legs out from under him. You can't say "he's right about all of this." What you're left with is "Punk's an aggressive jerk who's been given more than he could reasonably ask for, and is still ruining everything for himself."
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Jan 9, 2024 14:18
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davidbix posted:In general, people's comprehension of the story has been skewed by how little it's been mentioned that Cabana 1. Is a producer 2. Was sent home for months in spite of being a producer. For a good eight months, aside from the game expo and ROH PPV matches, he was being paid on two newly-signed contracts — one of which is as an employee with benefits! — to sit at home. im very jealous of that personaly
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Jan 9, 2024 14:42
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NikkolasKing posted:Austin of course owes a lot of his success to Vince, just like Hogan did. But at the same time Vince was blessed with so many talents, many of which he purposefully sabotaged. Folks like Rey and RVD and Bryan got over despite Vince's best efforts to the contrary, and he made sure to kill them dead even when they got on top. He made plenty of bad decisions in the 80s and 90s, sure. But nobody's perfect, and even when I hated his taste in big shredded muscle boys who can't work, it was part of the brand he wanted to build. But that's different from seeing a guy get over huge and deciding that he's going to wreck it instead of capitalize on it. I don't think of him as having been that pigheaded in 1995. What if Shawn Michaels had come along in 2008 instead of 1988?
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Jan 9, 2024 15:36
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which was more damaging to Dick Togo's place in wrestling - House of Torture or Kaientai?
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Jan 9, 2024 15:39
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Don't choppy choppy my Dick Togo.
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Jan 9, 2024 15:40
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Lid posted:which was more damaging to Dick Togo's place in wrestling - House of Torture or Kaientai? HoT, because Kaientai was awesome elsewhere and he didn't do it in WWE very long
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Jan 9, 2024 17:00
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edogawa rando posted:Probably better than the poster, seen here being re-used as the DVD cover. this exact same image, minus the tv-14 and dvd logos, was used on promo t-shirts given out by the local radio station
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Jan 9, 2024 17:47
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Lid posted:which was more damaging to Dick Togo's place in wrestling - House of Torture or Kaientai? Kaientai DX ruled though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjigyMUxNQI
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Jan 9, 2024 20:03
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Is Banks/Mone actually good at wrestling? Like get rid of the "name value" and grading on the "WWE curve" where being average may as well be spectacular is she going to be fun to watch to wrestle and talk at people? I havent seen any of her work beyond her and Belairs wrestlemania main event, which was fine but didnt set me on fire.
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Jan 10, 2024 23:14
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yeah she's had some fun matches. i liked a lot of her nxt run. she's had some great ones with bayley
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Jan 10, 2024 23:19
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Defenestrategy posted:Is Banks/Mone actually good at wrestling? Like get rid of the "name value" and grading on the "WWE curve" where being average may as well be spectacular is she going to be fun to watch to wrestle and talk at people? I havent seen any of her work beyond her and Belairs wrestlemania main event, which was fine but didnt set me on fire. https://vk.com/video-4499945_456250723?t=4h16m6s i like this one
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Jan 10, 2024 23:29
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Her two NXT Takeover matches against Bayley are legit loving classics.
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Jan 11, 2024 02:25
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I haven’t seen her Japan stuff, but I remember thinking she was pretty good. She tended to rush spots quite a bit and did some dangerous spots that she shouldn’t have been doing, but I never thought of her as bad. Her match with Bayley in NXT Brooklyn is my all-time favorite of hers during her WWE run.
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Jan 11, 2024 02:38
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