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Shrimpy posted:Honestly a bit surprising that I haven't see the Panthers listing BoB as one of the coaches they're interviewing. I wouldn't be against it, but him and Tepper would probably punch piss out of each other.
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Jan 10, 2024 09:16
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Kirios posted:I think if Bryce were anything but a high first round pick every mock draft would have QB as their top need. Not really, because it also costs something to replace him and the Panthers don’t have the money or draft picks to do it. If you get ripped off by a shady used car salesman and buy a lemon that break down all the time it’s not a sunk cost fallacy to try to fix it up and keep driving until you can afford to replace it with something better.
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Jan 10, 2024 09:21
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Ehh I guess but if a Nix falls to 33 it may be worth a look... Man the Panthers are in an extremely unenviable position. Their best option is to get a solid vet to stabilize things and give Bryce a chance to learn under them. I think it's a terrible idea to throw him out there Week 1 in 2024. He needs a reset.
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Jan 10, 2024 09:35
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Kirios posted:Ehh I guess but if a Nix falls to 33 it may be worth a look... A decent offseason and you've got that. You ensure the interior of the offensive line won't be a turnstyle like it was this year. Throw overs at like... Tee Higgins, draft the best guy in the 2nd and if you want to go a little outside of modern thinking, sign someone like King Henry or Saquan if the giants don't extend/franchise him and guarantee some production from the run game in short yardage. All of that is doable in an offseason. You don't bother with Nix or Penix at 33. You take a pass catcher or offensive lineman because who gives a poo poo for 2024. We're not competing anyway.
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Jan 10, 2024 09:41
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the panthers drafting bonix would be my personal nightmare
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Jan 10, 2024 10:04
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Lot of teams pinning their off-season hopes on shoring up their OLs when there just isn’t enough good OL to go around. QBs have to be able to function with substandard line play.
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Jan 10, 2024 12:57
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Because of so much emphasis placed on the QB position, we'll be stuck in prospect overrating/overreaching hell forever. JJ McCarthy seems the next guy up to fall into the Daniel Jones / Zach Wilson / Bryce Young zone as he magically is going from what people projected as a 4th round pick to a 1st all because of the championship where, imo, he didn't even play that well as a passer.
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Jan 10, 2024 15:37
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Harlock posted:Because of so much emphasis placed on the QB position, we'll be stuck in prospect overrating/overreaching hell forever. How many games did he eclipse 200 yards? He's got the JWG argument which always means JAG
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Jan 10, 2024 16:17
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Wonder how much of the o line struggles is due to Bryce drop back, timing, and mechanics. He’s never going to step up into the pocket and he wants to sprint right. If I’m rushing the left tackle, I’m just trying to get around the edge and chase Bryce down from behind. https://x.com/winkstape/status/1729193757168574909?s=46&t=JBd6ZXmGQ3LmWL-ineTnAA
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Jan 10, 2024 16:32
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You are high if you think the Panthers are going to just give up on Bryce Young after one terrible season. He will get a shot next season to be the starter again, and I doubt Tepper is going to hire a coach who says Young is beyond saving. As long as the kid isn't a cancer in the locker room, or just completely uncoachable, he will get more than just one season as a signal caller in Carolina.
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Jan 10, 2024 16:45
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FizFashizzle posted:Wonder how much of the o line struggles is due to Bryce drop back, timing, and mechanics. He’s never going to step up into the pocket and he wants to sprint right. If I’m rushing the left tackle, I’m just trying to get around the edge and chase Bryce down from behind. His drop back and timing / speed of it were deliberately changed because the receivers were slow getting out of their breaks. This isn't my head canon either, it's something that analysts have pointed out broadcasts and breakdowns that the panthers changed over the season. Playing with subpar line play and causing rhe problems because you move off centre are one thing. Being instructed to do so and the execution lacking as a unit is another.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:13
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The situation is that Bryce lacks the physical ability to consistently play in the NFL at a high level. He doesn't have great arm strength and isn't tall enough to see over the line without standing on his toes which means he's always choosing between visibility and mechanics. You can see that his mechanics are all over the place and that a lot of throws are affected by it. Nothing that you said fixes that problem because none of it makes defensive lines shorter or Bryce taller. People are always talking about how Bryce has great anticipation and that's fine, the problem is that it would need to be drat near clairvoyant to make up for his very obvious physical deficiencies when it comes to height alone. And again, that's not even addressing the poor arm strength and deep accuracy that results from it.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:29
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Dolphans don’t look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIoQB5YsmXE
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Jan 11, 2024 01:14
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Diva Cupcake posted:Lot of teams pinning their off-season hopes on shoring up their OLs when there just isn’t enough good OL to go around. Substandard line play is how you turn promising QB prospects into College GameDay commentators.
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Jan 11, 2024 01:16
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AndrewP posted:Dolphans don’t look Fair as hell analysis. I honestly have to admit I agree with everything he says. I’m terrified Miami tie themselves to Tua for 50m a year. He’s not that.
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Jan 11, 2024 01:24
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A.o.D. posted:Substandard line play is how you turn promising QB prospects into College GameDay commentators. There's substandard line play and there's historically bad line play and the 2nd most sacks ALL TIME allowed to a rookie QB who missed a game.
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Jan 11, 2024 02:13
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Sacks are a QB stat. There are worse lines in the league than Carolina’s.
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Jan 11, 2024 03:20
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The Giants were historically bad, they gave up the second most sacks all-time. The Commanders, Jets and Titans were all around the Panthers with 64 or 65. That's just a normal terrible season All of them scored more points then the Panthers, though the Panthers did score more points per drive then the Jets
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Jan 11, 2024 03:44
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2nd most sacked rookie QB of all time. "This is normal"
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Jan 11, 2024 04:43
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AndrewP posted:Dolphans don’t look It's ok, in the off-season Tua will study whatever martial art makes you better at reading which receiver is open
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Jan 11, 2024 05:01
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What leverage does Tua have if Miami offers him, say, $30m a year? Does he really think he's going to have a $50m a year market? Baker Mayfield balked at a "middle class" QB contract and look what happened to him.
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Jan 11, 2024 05:07
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AndrewP posted:What leverage does Tua have if Miami offers him, say, $30m a year? Does he really think he's going to have a $50m a year market? Yes. Why don't you think Tua would get $50m/year in FA?
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Jan 11, 2024 05:17
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MrLogan posted:Yes. Why don't you think Tua would get $50m/year in FA? bc he's a tiny little man with a serious concussion history, the most explosive complement of pass catchers in the league, and will almost certainly get dinged up again next year before hitting FA and actually yea someone will definitely pay him. If Miami is smart it won't be them
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Jan 11, 2024 05:35
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I’m still not convinced Tua’s the guy. He’s accurate, yeah, but his anticipation still just seems okay - he’s more of a throw to a target quarterback than anticipate what the receiver is doing. What they do have is the most talented skill position group in the NFL and a coach I rate very highly in Mike McDaniel. I wonder if we’re looking at a 49er situation (IE: Any quarterback can at least be good in it) with Tua and we don’t realize it.
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Jan 11, 2024 05:41
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the lowball offer for a maybe franchise qb will be like 45 million now. everything's shlucked up
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Jan 11, 2024 05:43
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Kirios posted:I’m still not convinced Tua’s the guy. He’s accurate, yeah, but his anticipation still just seems okay - he’s more of a throw to a target quarterback than anticipate what the receiver is doing. starting to feel the same after this season. Tua basically falls apart the minute the schematic/talent advantage is nullified a bit, which is always going to happen in the NFL. McDaniel has built the system in such a way that he doesn't have to be some insanely talented high end franchise qb but he does need to hit more vertical routes and play better under pressure otherwise he's going to be the limiting factor on the offense (injuries notwithstanding) it almost makes me wonder what this team looks like with a dude who's got a huge arm but less mid range accuracy
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Jan 11, 2024 05:44
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to defend tua a little bit, mcdaniel's schematic emphasis is optimizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses, so it's not exactly plug and play in regards to qb. you can look at last year to see that. tua has his limitations and its possible this is as efficient as he'll ever be under this offense, but it's not like the rest of the offense and playcalling can't be improved upon
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Jan 11, 2024 05:52
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BlindSite posted:2nd most sacked rookie QB of all time. I mean there aren't huge numbers of 16 game rookie starter seasons to begin with. What's unusual is that they gave a guy that overmatched the opportunity to compile that many sacks because usually rookies struggling that much get injured or benched at some point, or don't see the field immediately for good reason. Levis for example just this season got sacked on 9.9% of his drop backs vs bryce at 10.5%. Zach Wilson got 13 games at 10.3%. Fields was almost 12% in 10 games(and never improved). Haskins(rip) was over 12% in 7 games. Goff was over 11% but only got to play the last 7 games. Etc Lots of crappy rookies get sacked a ton, it's nothing unprecedented. A guy getting to play a full season like that when it's clearly not working is the outlier He did get to quiet the durability questions a bit though
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Jan 11, 2024 05:58
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joe football posted:I mean there aren't huge numbers of 16 game rookie starter seasons to begin with. What's unusual is that they gave a guy that overmatched the opportunity to compile that many sacks because usually rookies struggling that much get injured or benched at some point, or don't see the field immediately for good reason. Levis for example just this season got sacked on 9.9% of his drop backs vs bryce at 10.5%. Zach Wilson got 13 games at 10.3%. Fields was almost 12% in 10 games(and never improved). Haskins(rip) was over 12% in 7 games. Goff was over 11% but only got to play the last 7 games. Etc The point I made was that his peers statistically in his rookie season where hit and pressured at a far lower rate and the narrative at the time was "oh they need to protect him better before you can judge" but people are already writing Young off because he's not as tall. Despite being comparably productive in spite of the pressure and sack rate. It's not something that can be handwaved away in that context.
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Jan 11, 2024 08:13
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Parallax posted:It's ok, in the off-season Tua will study whatever martial art makes you better at reading which receiver is open he just needs to develop his yomi
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Jan 11, 2024 08:48
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FizFashizzle posted:*Bryce Young threw the ball 527 times, the fifth-most of any season in team history, but only threw for 2,877 yards, the 18th-most in a season in team history. He's sandwiched between Chris Weinke's 2001 year (15 games total) and Jake Delhomme's 2006 season (where he only played 13 games). But remember it's somehow not his fault, because . A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Bryce is an all time bust This. I don't get why the one defender of him ever still has hope but it won't last much longer (I could have made a "there's a short time left in that" joke but didn't, that's called restraint)
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Jan 11, 2024 12:49
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Maybe the Panthers could luck into getting Pete Carroll given the success he had with a QB who couldn't ride all of the rides at Disneyland.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:26
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Bryce is 100% a bust, at least in Carolina, but he's also 100% gonna be the starter next year. No team is gonna trade for him for anything more than scraps (and even then I'd be surprised, his rookie contract is not worth it as he is now). Panthers don't really have the draft capital to do anything else, and too many holes to fill as well. Maybe spend a late round pick on a QB and see if you get lucky, but otherwise just save up for the 2025 draft and develop the rest of the team. If the roster improves and Young improves, you might be able to get a 2nd or 3rd from a trade or as part of a package to move to the QB spot they want (if they aren't 1st overall again). Tua may not be the guy, but I would guess he'll get at least a 3yr/$140 mil contract, or maybe like 4yr/$170 with an out for the team after 3 years - and if they beat the Chiefs, those numbers will go up.
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Jan 11, 2024 20:06
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Gully Foyle posted:Bryce is 100% a bust, at least in Carolina, but he's also 100% gonna be the starter next year. I don't agree with that at all. I think the way this will go is the next coach will bring in someone to compete with him in training camp, he'll lose the competition or be benched/injured early on in the season, and he'll never see the field in a meaningful capacity again. If this HC job is contingent upon Bryce not only being fixed but being the week 1 starter no matter what then, whelp, leave the team in Munich.
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Jan 11, 2024 20:29
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Jordan Love is pretty good https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1745520954682564933
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Jan 11, 2024 21:33
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As a Bears fan, it disturbs me to read how so many of the defenses of Young sound like what we've been saying about Fields for the last few years.
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Jan 11, 2024 21:54
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Fields is at least exciting to watch and will occasionally be the reason the bears are even in a game or winning. Bryce has done absolutely nothing nor showed anything. He'd be called a bust or JAG if not for the narrative of a 1st ova pick and bama qb.
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Jan 11, 2024 22:41
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Kirios posted:What they do have is the most talented skill position group in the NFL and a coach I rate very highly in Mike McDaniel. I wonder if we’re looking at a 49er situation (IE: Any quarterback can at least be good in it) with Tua and we don’t realize it. Been saying this for three years lol. I think Tua is like Purdy though in that he is a factor in how well the system works and you can't just plug and play anyone in the system to get similar results.
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Jan 11, 2024 22:49
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Fields has shown less as a passer than Bryce tbh.
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Jan 11, 2024 23:28
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I think why I'm so forgiving of this year is Bryce's arm can be amazing at times, even if it is limited with the deep ball. He's got such a fluid release it's beautiful when it works.
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