Punkin Spunkin posted:

One of the greatest feats in literary history lmao

Xiahou Dun posted:

I’m on a discord for local millenials because I live in the woods and it’s the only way to meet people my own age. There’s this kid, like 19 if that, and he’s the saddest, most sheltered dude I’ve ever heard of. The kind of guy who asks earnest, desperate questions about what he’s allowed to do in line at the grocery store because he’s never gone before.

He just posted a picture of the ASoIF box set he just bought. Sweet motherfucking summer child lol.

Kylaer posted:

More like one of the greatest eats in literary history.

Evil Fluffy posted:

The extent that people have become deluded into believing he has some grand plan to finish the series is an impressive feat though.

Xiahou Dun posted:

I’m on a discord for local millenials because I live in the woods and it’s the only way to meet people my own age. There’s this kid, like 19 if that, and he’s the saddest, most sheltered dude I’ve ever heard of. The kind of guy who asks earnest, desperate questions about what he’s allowed to do in line at the grocery store because he’s never gone before.

He just posted a picture of the ASoIF box set he just bought. Sweet motherfucking summer child lol.

Hannibal Rex posted:

Does anyone know if the GRRM cameos on the old Beauty and the Beast TV show are online somewhere? I couldn't find them on youtube, but they're hilarious.

Punkin Spunkin posted:

That's the best way honestly. I got into the series way after the show so I didn't really come into it with any frustration or expectation, I never knew a time when Gurrm was really writing much anyway and I never really got so attached to the books (or spent dark years waiting for Dance) that it makes a difference to me either way whether he ever writes another one.

If he does I'll probably read it. The last two weren't as good but they didn't bother me because I guess I never expected anything incredible anyway. They're easy reading.

Well except for the creepy type Mercy poo poo and a lot of the time when hes writing for women. In some ways, looking at poo poo like that, it's better if he doesn't write.

Punkin Spunkin posted:

I have questions but I'm too disgusted and afraid to ask any of them. Confusion is bliss.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Invalid Validation posted:

It was always gonna end lovely since the books kept marching towards more fantasy garbage and he kept killing off interesting characters. The political stuff was always more entertaining. How the show ended just confirms it.

nine-gear crow posted:

The thing I was always interested in seeing was how the politickers in King's Landing would react when the magic bullshit plot from The Wall finally made it down to them and they had to confront an outside context problem. And the show's answer to that was "Cersei got scared by a zombie for a few seconds and then immediately went back to her selfish politicking. lol"

So now I don't give a poo poo.

nine-gear crow posted:

The thing I was always interested in seeing was how the politickers in King's Landing would react when the magic bullshit plot from The Wall finally made it down to them and they had to confront an outside context problem. And the show's answer to that was "Cersei got scared by a zombie for a few seconds and then immediately went back to her selfish politicking. lol"

So now I don't give a poo poo.

banned from Starbucks posted:

Literally nothing mattered at all. A depleted North dealing with zombies? Who cares we have between 10-100,000 Dothraki and mined some +3 obsidian daggers. Dothraki all died. Eh whatever hit the respawn button so they can take out the Golden Company.

I'm gonna laugh so hard when in 8 more years the books come out and it's just the poo poo TV ending with more tits, food and diarrhea.

nine-gear crow posted:

George RR Martin's A Song of Nips and Shits

Woodpile posted:

A Song of poo poo in Dick

Irisi posted:

I would have killed to see Tywin Lannister live long enough to realise that in waging that horrible, bloody war in the Riverlands he had decimated both his own and the Northern army, just at the point they could really do with a united Westeros army to deal with Dragons from the east, Ice Zombies from the north and whatever Lovecraftian bullshit Euron Greyjoy is summoning up in the south-west.

I would have liked to have seen him fully realise the magnitude of his own blinkered, cruel actions and despair.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'd almost be a Tywin stan if I lived in Westeros at this point. Dude was too cruel, the war crimes in the Riverlands and all that is way too much, he dealt with his kids in the worst way possible, sure.

But let us not forget that there's no war crimes in the Riverlands if the idiot protagonists don't get played every step of the way by every single motherfucker they encounter. They start the war by believing the slimiest, known-for-bitter-scheming-sleazeball-liar status in the kingdoms dude, that Littlefingerherarse dude I think he's called?

Were I in my preferred territory somewhere near Highgarden under the rule of my preferred lords, yeah, don't really give a poo poo about Tywin being mean, I'm just ready to send the wolf morons
and their fish comrades home by any means necessary to focus on dealing with the Shields and preparing for winter.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'd almost be a Tywin stan if I lived in Westeros at this point. Dude was too cruel, the war crimes in the Riverlands and all that is way too much, he dealt with his kids in the worst way possible, sure.

But let us not forget that there's no war crimes in the Riverlands if the idiot protagonists don't get played every step of the way by every single motherfucker they encounter. They start the war by believing the slimiest, known-for-bitter-scheming-sleazeball-liar status in the kingdoms dude, that Littlefingerherarse dude I think he's called?

quote:

"Paid? He took two of my chickens and gave me a bit of paper with a mark on it. Can I eat a bit of raggy old paper, I ask you? Will it give me eggs?" She looked about to see that no guards were near, and spat three times. "There's for the Tullys and there's for the Lannisters and there's for the Starks."
"It's a sin and a shame," an old man hissed. "When the old king was still alive, he'd not have stood for this."

"King Robert?" Arya asked, forgetting herself.

"King Aerys, gods grace him," the old man said, too loudly. A guard came sauntering over to shut them up. The old man lost both his teeth, and there was no more talk that night.

quote:

Dany rode close beside him. "Still," she said, "the common people are waiting for him. Magister Illyrio says they are sewing dragon banners and praying for Viserys to return from across the narrow sea to free them."

"The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends," Ser Jorah told her. "It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace." He gave a shrug. "They never are."

Dany rode along quietly for a time, working his words like a puzzle box. It went against everything that Viserys had ever told her to think that the people could care so little whether a true king or a usurper reigned over them. Yet the more she thought on Jorah's words, the more they rang of truth.

quote:

A few times over the last year I have tried to make a coherent text out of this meta-theory of mine and failed - as it requires several insights and a proper vision to grasp, something difficult to put into words. I hope I will succeed this time.

It is a really lengthy text, so please get yourself a cup of tea/coffee or skip to tldr. In fact, it is so long that I had to split it to publish

In general, this theory is based on:

The facts described in the books
Common sense
Possible cultural references
Narrative logic. It implies the narrative has a logic of its own, which once established can't be easily changed.
The easiest example: GRRM created too many plotlines and POVs, and now he struggles to develop and finish them.

Another example: after 4 books the North is basically depopulated, while the White Walkers are advancing and the Stannis vs Roose war is still on. Someone has to fight the current war and the future war. Danny is too far away tangled in Martin's Essos plotlines we love so much. So, Martin has the Iron Bank step in and give Stannis 20k future mercenaries. Of course, there is also a point of showing Cersei being rather dumb and Jon being such a good negotiator, but in essence, this episode serves to give the North more manpower. And now we have an extra plotline of Tycho Nestoris and GRRM has one more character to do smth with.

5. GRRM writing logic

First, I assume Martin is planning to unveil every great mystery that has a direct influence on the story. Largely because all great mysteries originated from the readers' current lack of information about smth important. If the topic is important (Jon's parents for example) and GRRM doesn't explain it - we get a great mystery. And the importance of the topic implies GRRM is going to reveal it later, otherwise, we get an unfinished plotline, smth any writer may want to avoid.

Second, I assume Martin is NOT going to introduce key new events/characters the reader is not prepared for. Martin prefers to build stories in advance. For example, Danny's transfiguration at the end of AGOT is preceded by the reveal of her heritage, the appearance of the dragon eggs, her dreams, her unusual bonding with the dragon eggs, etc. Given all that information, we still see the birth of dragons and Dayneris's immunity against fire as a miracle, but a miracle possible in a given universe and, most importantly, a miracle replicable. If we replicate the situation, e.g. have a person with Danny's background (a "proper" Targaryen), 3 dragon eggs, and a fire - we can get dragons. This effect is achieved by building a background for a miracle in advance. Yes, of course, there is a matter of blood magic involved that makes the whole event mysterious. But in general, we believe it, we don't feel like GRRM just made this up to cover his own inferior narrative.

So, I believe GRRM:

Is going to solve all major mysteries
Is going to gradually introduce relevant information for any reveal to make it look predictable in retrospect. The reader is like: "Of course, how haven't I seen it coming!"
I divided the theory into several parts to make it easier to comprehend:

Prologue: The Narrative Around the Long Night
Part I: "Fallen City, Living Death"
Part II: The Bloodstone Emperor
Part III: The Thing That Should Not Be
A Note for Readers
An Interlude: The Metaphysics of ASOIA
Part IV: When The Hell Freezes Over
Part V: The Night That Ended?
Part VI: The Shadow Over Oldtown
Part VII: Why This Theory Is Right: The Narrative Logic
Conclusion
TLDR

The first post: Prologue-Part III.

The second post: Part III-TLDR

Spoiler alert: This text contains spoilers for several novels by Lovecraft. Beware!

Prologue: The Narrative Around the Long Night

ASOIAF features 3 main plots (bunches of individual plotlines) first outlined in its "original draft" (do not research). The first is the war for the Iron Throne in Westeros, the second is the journey of Daenerys to claim that Iron Throne for herself, and the third one is the future fight against the Others and the preparation for it. So, we have 2 political plots and 1 apocalyptic. And of course, the apocalyptic one is the most important, and it dwarves all others in the end (it's hard to imagine the Blackwoods and the Brackens fighting each other when the White Walkers turn up). The unique feature of this apocalyptic scenario - the Long Night - is that it happened before.

So, we get 2 parallel stories - the past one and the future one - and the future one mirrors the past one. That's why any information about the Long Night is actually a spoiler. And GRRM as a writer has a tradeoff there: if he tells us nothing about the Long Night, we won't be eager to read the apocalyptic plot because we don't see its importance. If he tells us everything, we still won't be interested, because we know everything that is going to happen.

What should GRRM do? Precisely what he is doing: he gives us the amount of information enough to feed our interest but not enough to fully understand what exactly is at play.

Let's see how much he tells us. We can divide The Long Night into 3 main parts:

Its origins: exactly how and why "Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man"
Its course: how the Long Night progresses and how it is finally overcome
Its direct consequences: what is done afterward
We have 2 blocks of knowledge about The Long Night that appear in the first 5 books:

Westerosi legends and folklore
Essos legends
We know the course of The Long Night: the darkness falls upon the world, the world is conquered by the demons, and the last hero with a magic sword rallies the virtuous men and defeats the enemy in a final battle. We even get the manual on how to create a super sword and whose help to seek when dealing with the Others. We also learn about the Horn of Winter, though its real properties are still unknown. And the current narrative perfectly mirrors the past one:

The winter comes, and we are constantly reminded by Joer Mormont that this winter is going to be different
The White Walkers appear and begin moving South.
Everyone is fussing around Stannis and his sword, Jon Snow gets a cool sword - there is a question of an ultimate weapon and its wielder.
The children of the forest are found and the properties of dragonglass are rediscovered
There are at least 2 possible Horns of Winter found
All goes according to plan

We know the aftermath of The Long Night: the Wall is erected, the Night Watch is either established or at least institutionalized as an order that mans the Wall, and the Night King incident takes place. The fact that he supposedly married a female Other and made sacrifices to them as well as the erection of the Wall itself suggests the Others were still around after their defeat and everyone recognized their threat.

So, while we have extensive lore on the course and the consequences of the Long Night, we know almost nothing about its origins. It sort of...just happens. Still, we have some clues:

Winters come on a rather regular basis without White Walkers showing up. So, their activity shouldn't cause the winters to occur per se. The unusual winters, in their turn, also can't cause the White Walkers to appear, because they were seen in the Prologue before the winter came.Conclusion: something other than the change of seasons or the simple activity of the White Walkers leads to the Long Night.

Melisandre and the cult of R'hllor believe that there is The Great Other, a god of darkness that has the ordinary Others as his servants. It implies that the Others have a leader, so their activity should depend on his will. Thus, their second "awakening" should depend on the Grear Other's activity and their very existence depends on him. We also have a mysterious "heart of winter" that had frightened Bran so much. Perhaps it is a spawning place of the Others...

The fact that the Long Night happens all over again means the origin of the Others - the Great Other, - was not destroyed in the first place

It also means the final victory over the darkness must feature the destruction of the source of Others (or everything will happen again). And that is why we don't get any exact information on what it is. It is a cornerstone of the future victory of the forces of light and GRRM wants to introduce it later - so that our anticipation is maximized.

Conclusion 0: GRRM does not specify the origins of the Long Night because the ultimate victory over the darkness means eliminating these original reasons for it to occur again. Such a twist shouldn't be introduced too early in the series or the anticipation wanes. GRRM is intentionally not elaborating on the reasons behind the Long Night.

quote:

Part I: "Fallen City, Living Death"

So, as we have seen, GRRM chose not to elaborate much on the origins of the Long Night and in general about the world of AOIAF before the Long Night - and was true to his idea for 15 years from 1996 to 2011. Then, suddenly in 2014 in the book "The World of Ice & Fire" we get loads of new information about the world of ASOIF, which is rather expected given the title.

But most importantly we get A LOT of new information about the origins of the Long Night.

Conclusion 0.5: For some reason, GRRM forsook his original idea of saving our anticipation and published the vital lore facts in a supplementary book. We will further see why, for now, let's consider the new information we got:

First, apparently, there used to be a pre-Valyrian dragonlords empire: The Great Empire of the Dawn with a capital in Asshai. I am not going to state all the arguments (you can check them in this brilliant theory https://lucifermeanslightbringer.com/2020/02/29/dragonlords-of-ancient-asshai/) except the most important:

The existence of pre-Valyrian structures of fused stone that we know is produced only with dragonflame (and using Occam's razor we assume that it can be manufactured using only dragons)
The 4 out of 8 Great Empire of the Dawn rulers' names coincide with the eye colours of the ghosts Danny saw in her visions:
"Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade."
I believe back in 1996 GGRM had no idea about the Great Empire of the Dawn (GEotD) and he simply made Asshai the most mysterious place on Earth, where you can get any peculiarities like dragon eggs. The colours of Danny's ancestors' eyes were also random. But the fact that GRRM used ALL these colours to describe the emperors of GEotD means he tied the new lore to the old one as if it was intended in the first place. He surely can't rewrite the past, but he can make new pieces of lore built into the existing canon.

So, there used to be a great empire with a capital in Asshai that used dragons to erect fused-stone structures. We know them:

The Five Forts
The foundations of the Hightower in Oldtown
However, the walls of Asshai (the supposed capital) are themselves made from another material:

"Some say as well that the stone of Asshai has a greasy, unpleasant feel to it, that it seems to drink the light, dimming tapers and torches and hearth fires alike"
While it is drastically different from the smooth fused stone we already know, I believe it is actually the same material altered by some catastrophic event. There are 2 main arguments there:

Why build your capital from another unpleasant material if you have plenty of good old fused stone? It drinks the light, which is strange for the dragon empire based on the concept of light.
Now Asshai - the largest city in the known world - is largely empty with only a small population. The GEotD is gone too. It is logical to assume that some event caused the GEotD to disappear and altered the material Asshai is built from.
Moreover, we have a whole list of other objects made from greasy black stone also predating Valyria, scattered all over the map:

The Seastone Chair
Yeen, a ruined city in Sothoryos
The Toad Stone in Basilisk Isles
Already mentioned Asshai
Let's for the sake of the argument assume they were not built by GEotD. The use of unique and now unavailable material in 3 different places in the world suggests a great empire that controlled Asshai, Sothoryos and the islands near it, and the Iron Islands in Westeros. The scope of Asshai (if we attribute its creation to another empire) means it was at least of the same might as the GEotD was. And this Hypothetical Empire existed at the same time as the GEotD, they even had a border between future Oldtown and future Pyke. Yet we know nothing about this empire, while we know relatively a lot about the GEotD. This Hypothetical Empire's absence from all records is highly unlikely in my opinion, especially since we do have information about a similar empire from that time. It is better to assume it used to be a single empire covering all this territory and it was the Great Empire of the Dawn - at least we know it existed.

Conclusion 1: It is easier and more logical to assume that all black stone buildings were constructed by the GEotD and then some of them got later corrupted by some catastrophe.

Here I will introduce a description of a place that has strong Asshai vibes. It will make sense later:

"When I drew nigh the nameless city I knew it was accursed."

"...a viewless aura repelled me and bade me retreat from antique and sinister secrets that no man should see, and no man else had ever dared to see."

"...so that all the tribes shun it without wholly knowing why"

"I saw that the city had been mighty indeed, and wondered at the sources of its greatness"

quote:

Part II: The Bloodstone Emperor

Now that we have established that at some point in its history, the Great Empire of the Dawn suffered a terrible catastrophe that altered the very material some of her cities were built from, let's dive into its immediate history.

Its history began with the reign of the God-on-Earth, who happened to be the son of 2 opposite deities: Lion of Night and Maiden-Made-of-Light. We can safely assume the Lion of Night represented darkness and Maiden-Made-of-Light represented light. Their coexistence is rooted in the very change of day and night. This guy reigned for 10,000 years and had 100 wives and at least 2 sons.

His eldest son succeeded him, so we can assume that in the GEotD the throne was inherited by the eldest son. I believe the God-on-Earth must have sired at least several daughters over the course of 10k years with 100 wives. And the fact he was succeeded by his eldest son means daughters were the last to inherit anything. It is not something unusual in ASOIAF, so I think we can assume it is true

Then we get this:

Dominion over mankind then passed to his eldest son, who was known as the Pearl Emperor and ruled for a thousand years. The Jade Emperor, the Tourmaline Emperor, the Onyx Emperor, the Topaz Emperor, and the Opal Emperor followed in turn, each reigning for centuries … yet every reign was shorter and more troubled than the one preceding it, for wild men and baleful beasts pressed at the borders of the Great Empire, lesser kings grew prideful and rebellious, and the common people gave themselves over to avarice, envy, lust, murder, incest, gluttony, and sloth.
What can we derive from this information?

Of course, we can't trust the numbers. GRRM plays a medieval chronicler and anyone familiar with the medieval chronicles or any ancient sources knows they usually significantly overstate or understate the figures (the size of armies for instance). And although they can turn a small fight of 2 scores of men into a grand battle, they usually don't make up the fact of the battle itself.
So, we can trust the processes and events that are described in Yi Ti sources to some extent. And we observe a trend of diminishing of the reigns of the emperors. We can surely attribute it to the thinning of the "divine blood" in the heirs of the God-on-earth: he was 100% a God, his son - 50% a God, his grandson - 25% a God, etc. Of course, it may be true they married brother to sister to keep the line more or less divine, but we don't have this information. And I think at first they just didn't care. If you reign for 1000 years (and live for even more) it is still a great span to be content with your fate. We have already seen such a trend somewhere....the Numenorian blood in Aragorn and his heirs!
There is also a rising instability on the borders and people becoming more sinful...but it may just be a trope, added by the chronicler in retrospect to show how people are punished for their sins.
And then out of the blue, we get this:

"When the daughter of the Opal Emperor succeeded him as the Amethyst Empress...."
Excuse me, what? Ah, apparently there weren't any male heirs, so the daughter of the Opal Emperor succeeded him, understandable. And then:

"...her envious younger brother cast her down and slew her, proclaiming himself the Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror"
Excuse me, what? So, there was a male heir, but the female succeeded her father? How does it align with the tradition established by the God-emperor himself?

It is an extremely important part of the story because we basically just got a succession crisis with a daughter coming before a son. Sadly, we don't have any information on the origins of this phenomenon. Not in this book. But we have literally the same situation described in extreme detail 4 years later, a situation known to everyone in Westeros back in the 1st book, - The Dance of Dragons. The detail about a younger brother fighting against his older sister appears as early as in the Feast for Crows.

I think it can't be a coincidence, 2 events mirror each other:

The situation takes place in an empire ruled by dragonlords
The succession rule is "son first"
An older daughter succeeds her father before his younger son, contradicting the rule
A conflict begins
It may also be a deliberate hint from GRRM for us to see that Targaryens are ultimately the descendants of the GEotD
As both events are so much alike, I will assume we can fill the gaps in the facts and logic of the ancient "Dance" with the details from the more recent Dance. And if we see something very improbable in the course of events of an Ancient Dance we can reasonably assume it to be a mistake of the chronicles and change it according to the Modern Dance logic.

So, do we have any inconsistencies with the description of the Bloodstone's coup? We have:

We can assume the Opal Emperor declared his daughter an heir in advance, much like Viserys did. It seems especially plausible since the GEotD emperors had longer life spans and so, if they had an idea, say, at 30 years, a longer period passed between the declaration of the idea and the need to implement this idea
It means there should have formed a circle of supporters of the future queen: nobility wishing to capitalize on their loyalty in the future
There should also have formed a circle of supporters of the future Bloodstone emperor: conservative elites that didn't believe or didn't want to believe in the finality of the emperor's decision. Much like it was before the Modern Dance when two parties emerged: the Greens and the Blacks.
Inconsistency 1: Despite the formation of 2 parties there is no information about the armed conflict that most surely must have erupted as it did during the Modern Dance. The Bloodstone Emperor just:
"...cast her down and slew her, proclaiming himself the Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror"
This inconsistency is highly unlikely because the supporters of both parties faced death or exile if the opposite party took the throne. If the new ruler took the throne without shedding much blood, he would have found himself in a vulnerable position: his rights to the throne are compromised and his opposition still chills around. So, he will shed blood. That's why I believe both parties would have fought to the death, especially given the dragons that greatly increase someone's self-esteem and a feeling of self-superiority.

Conclusion 2: So, I believe there indeed was a great civil war between the Bloodstone Emperor (BSE) and the Amethyst Empress for some reason overlooked in the eastern chronicles.

Or was it overlooked? We will find out

In the annals of the Further East, it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night. Despairing of the evil that had been unleashed on earth, the Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world, and the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men.

How long the darkness endured no man can say, but all agree that it was only when a great warrior—known variously as Hyrkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser— arose to give courage to the race of men and lead the virtuous into battle with his blazing sword Lightbringer that the darkness was put to rout, and light and love returned once more to the world.
Next, we are informed the usurpation made way for the Long Night itself.

quote:

So, we have:

A singular event: the Blood Betrayal
Followed by a continuous event: the rule of the BSE ("and beginning a reign of terror")
Followed by another continuous event: the Long Night
We have every reason to believe these 2 events are the same event:

The description of the atrocities of the BSE is followed by this:

Despairing of the evil that had been unleashed on earth, the Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world, and the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men.
It is reasonable to assume that "the evil that had been unleashed on earth" refers to the atrocities mentioned earlier. They triggered the light to disappear and the darkness to rule supreme: that's basically what a Long Night is when it comes to the balance of light and darkness.

So, the Long Night is a period of the BSE rule when total darkness covered the Earth.

And the Long Night was supposedly - according to the Western sources - accompanied by the Others invading the World and overpowering the realms of men

We have the following chronological order then:

The BSE decides to overthrow the Amethyst Empress
[A great civil war starts] - not mentioned, but should have happened
The BSE wins and establishes the rule of terror named the Long Night
[The Others invade the world] - not mentioned, but mentioned in Westerosi legends
The Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men
If we consider the Yi Ti and Westerosi sources to be 100% correct and faithful in their representation of the events and also assume our idea of the Ancient Dance of Dragons to be true, we get the following:

The world is devastated by the great civil war that features the extensive use of dragons. Then the BSE terrorizes his empire and enslaves its people. After that, the Others invade from the North. And then an eastern deity - the Lion of Night - unleashes his horrors upon the world. A bit too much, right?

Some events surely overlap or mean the same thing. So, how do we reconstruct what really happened?

The Lion of Night is the deity of darkness. So, him "coming forth" simply means the total darkness that fell on Earth. And I think he doesn't command anything on his own. The terrors that come with the night are associated with him but are separate from him. So, I conclude that he didn't really come to punish the wickedness of men. The eternal night coincided with someone else (The BSE for instance) punishing the wickedness of men, and so those actions were attributed to the Lion of Night
If the BSE started the Long Night, and the Long Night is associated with the Others, the BSE must be the one in command of the Others. That way we keep things plausible and less complicated. And it should be 100% correct because GRRM himself names the BSE the reason for the Long Night and makes it clear the Long Night's main villains are the Others. There is no way the BSE is not connected to the Others. If they acted independently, then the Others would have attacked the BSE's empire and got mentioned in the chronicles. They were not, because they were associated with the BSE. So, the Others never invaded the world during the rule of the BSE, they helped him begin his rule
We now have a far more plausible chronological order:

The BSE decides to overthrow the Amethyst Empress
[A great civil war starts] - not mentioned
The BSE wins with the help of Others and establishes the rule of terror named the Long Night accompanied by the long night (eternal darkness)
But if the BSE wins with the help of the Others, they must have fought in the great civil war by his side!

Conclusion 3: So, I am sure the Ancient Dance of the Dragons and the Long Night represent the same event: the Others under the command of the Bloodstone Emperor vs the forces of the Amethyst Empress. The chronicles later explained the Long Night by the Blood Betrayal as an ultimate sin that on top of aforementioned gluttony, incest, etc led humanity to its doom. And the fact that the Long Night was actually a civil war got overlooked: the apocalyptic narrative dwarfed the political one.

It explains why the Ancient Dance of the Dragons is never described anywhere.It explains the motivation of the Bloodstone Emperor way better, as you will see later

It also means that the Bloodstone Emperor became the leader of the Others before the Ancient Dance the Others actively participated in. And later led the Others against the GEotD to claim it for himself. But how and why does he command the Others?

We will soon find out.