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MrMojok posted:Absolutely serious post here, and I ask this because I feel like I can’t trust the stories put out by either side. I am not an expert, but from what I can remember the only "crisis" is that the GOP has legislated their way into one by cutting off all the normal means of immigration. So the "illegal" migrants are almost entirely those who couldn't go through the normal (but now inaccessible) paperwork process.
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Jan 13, 2024 00:44
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Wouldn't getting called up for federal service actually be better for them? I thought I remembered hearing that the Guard gets hosed over in a bunch of ways when on state duty, especially in Texas where Abbot's been calling them up for extra long extended border duty. Didn’t they not get payed last time he did this poo poo?
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Jan 13, 2024 00:52
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Wouldn't getting called up for federal service actually be better for them? I thought I remembered hearing that the Guard gets hosed over in a bunch of ways when on state duty, especially in Texas where Abbot's been calling them up for extra long extended border duty. It would. If they get called up their pay and supply situation falls under the DoD, not the State of Texas, and the abuses they've previously suffered on earlier Texas border call-ups likely would no longer be plaguing them.
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Jan 13, 2024 00:57
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Wouldn't getting called up for federal service actually be better for them? I thought I remembered hearing that the Guard gets hosed over in a bunch of ways when on state duty, especially in Texas where Abbot's been calling them up for extra long extended border duty. On one hand yes, better bennies. On the other hand they didn't enlist to be full time and have other lives. So its tremendously unfair to them to be jerked around in a pissing match between the state and fed governments
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Jan 13, 2024 01:03
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Flikken posted:On one hand yes, better bennies. On the other hand they didn't enlist to be full time and have other lives. So its tremendously unfair to them to be jerked around in a pissing match between the state and fed governments One thing that came out of the previous state border call-ups is that their lives were just as disrupted as if they were subject to a federal call up. Even though they were closer to home, they were still sick at their assigned areas. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 01:12
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A.o.D. posted:One think that came out of the previous state border call-ups is that their lives were just as disrupted as if they were subject to a federal call up. Even though they were closer to home, they were still sick at their assigned areas. I'm advocating for them to be left the gently caress alone. Edit: somehow get the Pentagon to enforce some sort of dwell time rules onto the states.
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Jan 13, 2024 01:13
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Flikken posted:I'm advocating for them to be left the gently caress alone. No argument there. I was just trying to point out that a Federal call up wouldn't necessarily be worse than a state one, especially given the poo poo show the earlier border deployments turned out to be.
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Jan 13, 2024 01:17
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MrMojok posted:Absolutely serious post here, and I ask this because I feel like I can’t trust the stories put out by either side. There's two things going on here and the right has managed to get everyone to believe they're the same. Most of the migrants are following the legal process to claim asylum in the US, which involves surrendering to a CPB officer at a port of entry, being processed in an immigration facility, receiving a court date to hear their case, and then being released to stay in the US until their case is decided. Trump deliberately hamstrung the process by under-resourcing the agencies responsible for processing asylum seekers, failing to back-fill immigration judges, and doing crazy poo poo like child separations. The Biden administration has continued some of these policies and rolled back others. It could be doing more, but the situation isn't inherently different than it was under Trump. The second thing is illegal immigration, which has always ebbed and flowed according to the season (many people immigrate illegally from Mexico to harvest crops and then return home after) and the economic strife in Latin America. Republicans want everyone to believe that ALL of the migrants are crossing the border illegally, but the rate of illegal immigration has largely held steady over time. What's also not helping is that the right wing has also managed to convince many on the left that the situation is about illegal immigration, when it's not. It's about legal immigration using the asylum system. psydude fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 01:20
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Thanks for this explanation.
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Jan 13, 2024 01:29
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Adam Ruins Everything covered a lot of the 'crisis' and how its bullshit during their episode on the Wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wk6rswxQro
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Jan 13, 2024 01:30
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MrMojok posted:Absolutely serious post here, and I ask this because I feel like I can’t trust the stories put out by either side. Remember all that “employee shortage” bullshit as American employees realized they had the leverage to make some demands about wages and working conditions but our glorious job creators cried to the media about their margins? It turns out that a white hot labor market attracts people from outside the country too, and when the last few decades of US foreign policy have systematically undermined stability in Central America, an influx of immigrants willing to take the risk of undocumented migration or claiming asylum is the natural conclusion. As always, the only way to do anything about this is to address the root cause - meaningfully penalize the people fraudulently hiring people. This would of course crash profits in agriculture, construction, and a few other sectors, and maybe even bankrupt or imprison some business owners, so everyone quietly pretends it isn’t an option. And the raging racism on the right means that normalizing the level of migration that we need for ongoing growth is also off the table. The only option left is getting angry at the most vulnerable people around for trying to feed their families, and upending their lives in every way possible.
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Jan 13, 2024 01:36
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Remember all that “employee shortage” bullshit as American employees realized they had the leverage to make some demands about wages and working conditions but our glorious job creators cried to the media about their margins? It turns out that a white hot labor market attracts people from outside the country too, and when the last few decades of US foreign policy have systematically undermined stability in Central America, an influx of immigrants willing to take the risk of undocumented migration or claiming asylum is the natural conclusion. Well and a large part is seasonal workers too that used to come and stay or a season then return. Anti-immigration laws have made it impossible for them to come and go. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 01:46
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CommieGIR posted:Well and a large part is seasonal workers too that used to come and stay or a season then return. Anti-immigration laws have made it impossible for them to come and go. 70 years ago my grandpa would work a season in WA/OR/CA and then turn themselves in to for a free ride to the border.
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Jan 13, 2024 01:54
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:As always, the only way to do anything about this is to address the root cause - meaningfully penalize the people fraudulently hiring people. This would of course crash profits in agriculture, construction, and a few other sectors, and maybe even bankrupt or imprison some business owners, so everyone quietly pretends it isn’t an option. And the raging racism on the right means that normalizing the level of migration that we need for ongoing growth is also off the table. The only option left is getting angry at the most vulnerable people around for trying to feed their families, and upending their lives in every way possible. Nah, the way to fix it is to open up simple legal means for both permanent and seasonal immigration. No need to try to do weird things with labor laws or trying to punish anyone at all.
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Jan 13, 2024 01:55
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Open up the borders entirely. Let people come and go as they please.
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Jan 13, 2024 02:17
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Grip it and rip it posted:Open up the borders entirely. Let people come and go as they please. I'm not quite there. I think there needs to be some vetting in terms of background checks, and customs control is also necessary, but I do believe that the bar anyone has to clear to get permanent entry to the country is to say "yes" to the question "Do you want to become an American?"
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Jan 13, 2024 02:20
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A.o.D. posted:No argument there. I was just trying to point out that a Federal call up wouldn't necessarily be worse than a state one, especially given the poo poo show the earlier border deployments turned out to be. I mean, this is what Eisenhower did with the Little Rock Central High School stuff in the 50's. The governor of Arkansas had called the Guard to secure the high school and prevent the black students from going in, and Eisenhower federalized them and had them guard the students going in instead.
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Jan 13, 2024 02:34
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A.o.D. posted:One thing that came out of the previous state border call-ups is that their lives were just as disrupted as if they were subject to a federal call up. Even though they were closer to home, they were still sick at their assigned areas. Note that since it’s a state wide deployment odds are that Alaska is effectively as far from home as the border is for many. It’s really hard to undersell how loving big Texas is.
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Jan 13, 2024 02:44
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hobbesmaster posted:Note that since it’s a state wide deployment odds are that Alaska is effectively as far from home as the border is for many. It’s really hard to undersell how loving big Texas is. The character of your call up matters, too. If you're effectively on lock down and you don't have any access to personal communication devices, it doesn't matter if you're on duty down the street from where you live or on Phobos. You won't have access to civilian amenities or the ability to communicate with loved ones.
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Jan 13, 2024 03:01
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hobbesmaster posted:Note that since it’s a state wide deployment odds are that Alaska is effectively as far from home as the border is for many. It’s really hard to undersell how loving big Texas is. It's really not as big as they claim. It's the same as that dude that constantly has to let everyone know how big their dick is.
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Jan 13, 2024 03:05
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MonkeyFit posted:It's really not as big as they claim. It's the same as that dude that constantly has to let everyone know how big their dick is. Yeah, Alaska laughs at them but El Paso to Houston being a 12 hour drive is nuts.
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Jan 13, 2024 03:14
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hobbesmaster posted:Yeah, Alaska laughs at them but El Paso to Houston being a 12 hour drive is nuts. those are rookie numbers
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Jan 13, 2024 03:22
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hobbesmaster posted:Yeah, Alaska laughs at them but El Paso to Houston being a 12 hour drive is nuts. It’s deceptive because it’s east–west and a whole lot of nothing, but it’s basically the same time/distance as Philadelphia to Jacksonville. Or, put another way, on a drive from Jacksonville to San Diego, one third of the way in, you will be in Texas. Two‐thirds of the way in, you are still in Texas.
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Jan 13, 2024 03:35
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I drove that east/west drive from El Paso and it was quite possibly one of the most boring drives of my life. Nothing to look at. I'm sure there's scenic parts of Texas but I didn't see any driving from one side of the state to the other.
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Jan 13, 2024 03:46
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tbf 12 hours of absolutely nothing is a big improvement vs. 12 hours of uninterrupted corn
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Jan 13, 2024 03:51
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HOLY poo poo WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WE MADE IT TO WHEAT COUNTRY!
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Jan 13, 2024 03:52
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  I would still rather do the AK drive. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 04:00
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Alaska also requires entering another country! I think the only other states where you’d do that to max out drive distances are Washington and Minnesota?
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Jan 13, 2024 04:03
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ive done this drive punctuated by a 4 hour nap a couple times
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Jan 13, 2024 04:07
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hobbesmaster posted:Alaska also requires entering another country! And a ferry
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Jan 13, 2024 04:08
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hobbesmaster posted:Alaska also requires entering another country! AK still wins if we skip Canada.  I don't think you can drive 1,000 miles point to point in any other state.
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Jan 13, 2024 04:10
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:AK still wins if we skip Canada. Smith River CA to Winterhaven CA is just over 1k. But that really is just about it for the rest of the US.
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Jan 13, 2024 04:26
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I've done Portland to Anchorage twice, and Anchorage to Prudhoe once, loved it every time. CA north/south is boring as poo poo except for the last few hours of the north end
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Jan 13, 2024 04:48
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Interstates in the US being mostly toll free is a blessing that I only realized after I moved to a country where all the highways are toll roads. Over here in Japan, driving Tokyo to Osaka is about 500km (300 miles) and takes 6 hours, give or take, but it costs 9k yen (~60 USD) just in tolls. Sure, there are plenty of public transport options between cities, but if you want to do something like drive a couple hours away to some tourist attraction for a day trip, those tolls end up being the majority of the cost.
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Jan 13, 2024 04:51
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If those tolls incentivize people to take transport over driving, that's a good thing.
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Jan 13, 2024 04:53
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They do, and it is a good thing, but it still hurts a bit when you just want to take a 90 minute drive away from the city to see the mountains for a day and it ends up costing almost $20 one way.
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Jan 13, 2024 04:59
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Yeah man don't you realize taking a country drive isn't good policy?!
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Jan 13, 2024 05:01
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Abbott: ‘We’re not shooting people’ who cross the border because feds ‘would charge us with murder’ Yeah, that’s what you should expect if you commit murder. 
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Jan 13, 2024 05:03
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Soul Dentist posted:Yeah man don't you realize taking a country drive isn't good policy?! ....it's really not. Everything from making the car to drilling and refining the gas to building the road are things that have negative externalities that people should pay for especially when it's a leisure activity. A country drive is a luxury and should be priced as one.
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Jan 13, 2024 05:09
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Mapchat is a fun derail
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