|
Part of the problem is Myanmar and the Congo aren’t receiving billions in military hardware from the US government.
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2024 23:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 04:02 |
|
|
for better or worse (its worse), american dollars and the agreements we (USA sorry) make with the rest of the world do matter would Ukraine still exist without the USA? probably not would Israel still exist without the USA? probably not
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 16:22
|
|
|
goatsestretchgoals posted:
Ehhhh this is hard to say. Arab states have tried on a few occasions and proved themselves usually incompetent. US support only really ramped up in the 70s I thought.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 16:42
|
|
|
Count Roland posted:Ehhhh this is hard to say. Arab states have tried on a few occasions and proved themselves usually incompetent. US support only really ramped up in the 70s I thought. What’s stopping Arab countries from indirect lobbying by threatening to purchase weapons from Europe instead of the US? Is US defense aid to Israel cash flow way greater than that of Arab states that Raytheon et al won’t directly complain to the US government when purchases stop?
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 17:13
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:What’s stopping Arab countries from indirect lobbying by threatening to purchase weapons from Europe instead of the US? Receiving equipment in months instead of decades might be beneficial for Arab countries.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 17:36
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:What’s stopping Arab countries from indirect lobbying by threatening to purchase weapons from Europe instead of the US? Is US defense aid to Israel cash flow way greater than that of Arab states that Raytheon et al won’t directly complain to the US government when purchases stop? They DO purchase weapons from Europe, in addition to American hardware. Arab Typhoons and Rafales fly alongside Arab F-15s, controlled by Arab C2 agencies using radars purchased from multiple nations, etc. But to shift completely away from the US...that puts their own security at significantly higher risk. Policy disagreements aren't going to overcome that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 18:10
|
|
|
Israel got a poo poo ton of aid immediately after founding; besides buying pretty much anything available on the Post WW2 arms market, they were given Western tanks and heavy weapons. By the 70s, IIRC, it became more like what we have today. It became more heavy in the 1980s as Reagan, funded by Evangelists, pushed for further aid. This is all from memory, and if anything reads wrong, please correct me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 20:42
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:Israel got a poo poo ton of aid immediately after founding; besides buying pretty much anything available on the Post WW2 arms market, they were given Western tanks and heavy weapons. By the 70s, IIRC, it became more like what we have today. It became more heavy in the 1980s as Reagan, funded by Evangelists, pushed for further aid. Not correcting, so much as amplifying-- Israel was very much an Anglo-French arms client until the threatened oil embargo during the 1967 war, at which point they pivoted much more to the US.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 21:51
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:Israel got a poo poo ton of aid immediately after founding; besides buying pretty much anything available on the Post WW2 arms market, they were given Western tanks and heavy weapons. By the 70s, IIRC, it became more like what we have today. It became more heavy in the 1980s as Reagan, funded by Evangelists, pushed for further aid. Israel was able to leverage the cold war to get significant support from both the US and USSR at its founding. They got a pretty huge leg up over the competition almost immediately.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 22:46
|
|
|
Grip it and rip it posted:Israel was able to leverage the cold war to get significant support from both the US and USSR at its founding. They got a pretty huge leg up over the competition almost immediately. Can anyone go into detail about this? Especially comparing to neighbouring states.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 23:33
|
|
|
Count Roland posted:Can anyone go into detail about this? Especially comparing to neighbouring states. A load of surplus WW2 equipment (the continent was awash with the stuff) made its way to Israel in 1948 via Czechoslovakia. That's basically it, by the early 50s the USSR is flooding Israel's neighbours with arms and Israel is allied with Britain and France who see it as a base to maintain influence in the region and counter Soviet influence, and then after Suez there's the pivot to the US.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2024 23:47
|
|
|
Yeah it's my understanding that the political class in Israel at its founding were primarily emigrating Europeans, who retained networks and connections to the political classes in Britain and France. The Arab states largely lacked these connections. Arming Israel also came with the absolutely massive appeal of countering an Egypt who threatened Britain and France's access to the Suez Canal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2024 09:54
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Not to mention their neighbouring Arab states being regularly couped and having Western client leaders propped up as active prevention of them potentially posing a threat to Israel or even complaining when they get semi regularly bombed by it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2024 08:50
|
|
|
You see it most clearly in the Israeli air force. During the six-days war, Israel's air force fought almost entirely using Dassault warplanes. French aircraft. They don't even get the A-4 Skyhawk and F-4 Phantom until after the war. Even then, the Yom Kippur war was mostly fought in the air with Skyhawks, since the funds from the US weren't big enough back then for them to give every pilot cutting edge planes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2024 08:22
|
|
|
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/11/icj-hears-south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-over-gaza-war Say that the ICJ does actually come down on the side of South Africa's argument and go: "Yes, Israel is being a bunch of genocidal fucks." What would the actual consequence be? The ICJ doesn't have an enforcement division that can go to Israel and arrest their government and Netanyahu probably won't go hand himself over willingly. So I assume the only real consequence would be that ICJ signatories would be legally compelled to arrest those found responsible if they dropped by?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 00:01
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/11/icj-hears-south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-over-gaza-war Yeah people who win wars don't go to jail for war crimes. The only real consequence (assuming nobody is going to enforce the judgement with military force) is embarrassment and political pressure on every other country to not have diplomatic or economic ties to Israel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 00:17
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/11/icj-hears-south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-over-gaza-war Sanctions, I hope. Never going to happen though. A significant number of nations would need to use an ICJ ruling as cause to implement sanctions programs. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 00:59
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/11/icj-hears-south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-over-gaza-war Good lord the Mossad would loving destroy anyone that tried to enforce that
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 01:37
|
|
|
mrmcd posted:Yeah people who win wars don't go to jail for war crimes. The only real consequence (assuming nobody is going to enforce the judgement with military force) is embarrassment and political pressure on every other country to not have diplomatic or economic ties to Israel. Not quite 100% true. For example: the Croatian government went through some pains to bring about the trials of some of their higher ranking officers involved in ethnic cleansing, etc. during the Yugoslav Wars. There are reasons, beyond any sense of justice, for that to have happened. The result was better than nothing though. Even the Serbian government, post-Milošević, has made attempts to try very high profile participants in the worst excesses of the FRY rump state and it's satellites. South Africa as a whole voted to end apartheid through concerted efforts from without and within. Truth and Reconciliation worked, as well as it could be expected to. I'm not hopeful. In two of those cases it was mostly broken old men with little influence left, after everyone around them who could evaded justice themselves. Even then, the respective governments wanted to distance their current structures as far away from what was, and as close to the greater world (the EU, mostly), as they could. That kind of thing can swing with the wind though. With so many younger people directly involved in the current genocide of people of Palestine, it might take a while for anything to happen one way or the other. The war may end, but the fear and hatred could be so ingrained that nothing can change. Again, I'm not hopeful. It took decades of ruinious wars, sanctions, and devestment to change South Africa from what it was to, what it is now. It took a couple years of abject horror and misery, plus a few decades of uneasy peace, financial ruin, and international pressure for the former Yugoslav states to get to where they are now. Maybe Israel/Palestine can go the same way. Maybe the war torn nations of the Middle East could as well. Might go totally in the another direction. I'm not super hopeful. madeintaipei fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 02:01
|
|
|
Dumb Brain: We should try to get Israel to have its leaders subject to the ICC Smart Brain: Arrest any of them that leave Israel. But uh, there’s something inherently wrong with making a list of Jews to hang in Europe. Just yeah, let’s not. Galaxy Brain: Wait a few years. Let them make their own documentaries and have official records of military commendations etc to nail down precisely who was telling troops to shoot civilians and which troops did the shooting. This will be easier with time, but it just leaves you with another long list of Jews you’re proposing to hang in Europe. Just… nope. Nope, nope, nope. Nobody is ever getting justice for the Israeli Genocide anymore than Israel is getting justice for 10/7. Which…. They’re not, and now they have exponentially more blood on their hands than can ever be washed off. I wish they had learned one loving thing from us. Just one. But no. What did we get? Issssraaaaeeeelllllllll Jenkins!!!!! (Goddamit Israel you are bombing a hospital)
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 21:58
|
|
|
LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Smart Brain: Arrest any of them that leave Israel. But uh, there’s something inherently wrong with making a list of Jews to hang in Europe. Just yeah, let’s not. Yeah, Interpol having any Israeli on a list of people wanted on outstanding warrants is just like what Hitler did. 🙄
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 22:31
|
|
|
mrmcd posted:Yeah, Interpol having any Israeli on a list of people wanted on outstanding warrants is just like what Hitler did. 🙄 Let me be more clear: Israel has the ability to Holocaust Europe. They’ll be taking a lot of Iranians with them too, but you better loving believe there is a true Jewish final solution to the European question: Mushroom Clouds. Jews on lists for execution in Europe is a terrible idea. For historical, and practical, and honestly strategic reasons. You think I’m kidding, and I am, but I’m a oval office hair away from the Venn diagram of joke and objective truth from being perfectly circular. And if you think I’m exaggerating, you are right. Cheers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 07:28
|
|
|
What in the goddamn gently caress are you talking about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 10:17
|
|
|
Sounds like The Samson Option, in which case I have some bad news about Hersh and anything he's produced in the last 30 years from single secret sources.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 10:23
|
|
|
Dance Officer posted:What in the goddamn gently caress are you talking about. I think they're referring to Israel possibly having nuclear weapons(it's in Israel's interest to suggest it has them, to make everyone worried about what they might do with them, but not to confirm they have them so folks might use it as a reason for sanctioning them for having an incredibly dangerous arsenal hanging around, but it's never been confirmed or debunked completely), and suggesting that if major Israeli figures end up on internationally wanted in a way that hampers Israel's ability to do Israel things or perhaps risks Israel's existence, then Israel is going to hurl nukes at everyone in range while flipping off the world. But also seem to be conflating "wanted by the ICC/ICJ/Interpol for a trial and perhaps a lengthy prison sentence in a not-too-bad prison for war criming a lot" with "they'll be on a shoot-on-sight list."
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 10:24
|
|
|
I figured we had already covered the intolerability of not standing up to a nuclear state with Ukraine
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 15:59
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Good lord the Mossad would loving destroy anyone that tried to enforce that The mossad aint what it used to be (see: giant surprise attack coming from the most surveilled place on the planet)
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 16:05
|
|
|
I thought it was obvious I was joking. Good lord.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 16:08
|
|
|
It was the sort of random screed I associate with drug use, not an attempt at humor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 17:02
|
|
|
We've seen so much sincere insane ranting since 2016 that how can anyone tell the difference at this point?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2024 17:31
|
|
|
Nothing to see here, just the most liberal city in Israel denying protest permits for an anti-war, left-wing protest, citing fear of violence.quote:Police deny permit for anti-war protest; left-wing groups vow High Court appeal
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 01:12
|
|
|
LtCol J. Krusinski posted:I thought it was obvious I was joking. You got a strange sense of humor, buddy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 05:21
|
|
|
madeintaipei posted:You got a strange sense of humor, buddy. You, uh... you must be new here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 06:16
|
|
|
Shim just shimposts, and there are sometimes nuggets of truth or enlightenment in the post. This is the way of things, as it has been, as it shall be in the future. Shim's advice to the wife of an intel geek in the air force years back was legendary, and also 100% factual for how a typical SCIF rat's career goes. E2: its linked below lol orange juche fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 06:42
|
|
|
madeintaipei posted:You got a strange sense of humor, buddy. 100% made in the U.S. of A. Organic
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 06:45
|
|
|
orange juche posted:Shim just shimposts, and there are sometimes nuggets of truth or enlightenment in the post. This is the way of things, as it has been, as it shall be in the future. Genuinely changed my life pls someone post it
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 06:48
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:The mossad aint what it used to be (see: giant surprise attack coming from the most surveilled place on the planet) It's become increasingly clear that most intelligence agencies are not and probably never were remotely competent, especially ones that never really had to be because they get unlimited retries at most everything they do and no consequences for failure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 06:54
|
|
|
Wasabi the J posted:Genuinely changed my life pls someone post it I got you boo, TW before you read the below, this is 2013 era SA, skip this post entirely if you don't want to read it. OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 06:57
|
|
|
A+
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 07:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 04:02 |
|
|
Always a classic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2024 07:36
|
|
