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Negative amount of essence, we're going to hit reality's overflow.
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Jan 13, 2024 07:32
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I'll say 175 essences. (And not a Gelfling in sight.)
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Jan 13, 2024 07:35
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I'll arbitrarily guess 155.
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Jan 13, 2024 07:59
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This rapid slide back into Queen Bitch of the Universe mode would be interesting narrative clay to play with if they hadn't sabotaged it pre-emptively.
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Jan 13, 2024 08:30
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Warmachine posted:Izsha, are we the baddies? I can't top TeeQueue's response but I do think it's worth pointing out that this mission is called Harvest of Screams. It's not even a pun or anything, nothing screams here and there's damned sure no agriculture happening on this moon. It's just leaned straight into the edge.
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Jan 13, 2024 08:57
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I'm guessing... 150 essences. Also with all of Abathur's talk about not wasting gene space on un-necessary advantages, you'd have thought that would be a lead-in to some sort of interesting Zerg mechanic, where you can't bring the genes for the entire Swarm in your backpack and you have to bring along access to X out of Y units per mission, or you can bring local adaptations but they cost you more general ones. Like maybe the Flash Freeze advantages(which might even show up on more planets! Many planets can be cold!) would make your troops weaker during non Flash Freeze conditions, so you trade all-the-time advantages for being able to truly whip rear end while everyone else is paralyzed, and it's your choice of how you want to play.
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Jan 13, 2024 10:15
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Qwertycoatl posted:How significant is Kerrigan gaining a level? Max level is 70, levels give her bit of damage, HP, armor, and every 10 levels give her new set of abilities (lvl 60 is the last tier). An individual level doesn't matter much, but they do stack up.
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Jan 13, 2024 10:51
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PurpleXVI posted:I'm guessing... 150 essences. Sounds * interesting * hell to balance * lot of effort so how about no 
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Jan 13, 2024 10:52
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Ah yes, here we are: The pre-emptive self-defense missions. IIRC on normal you get the expansion for free - Kerrigan orders a hatchery to be dropped from orbit once you clear out the protoss.
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Jan 13, 2024 11:07
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Y'know how if a word is being repeated so often, it's stop sounding like a word? It's called Semantic satiation (I can never, for the life of me, remember that term). We'll hit that before this mission chain will end, I'm guessing.
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Jan 13, 2024 11:55
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Xarn posted:Sounds Also I'm sorry, did you want a campaign where the units and upgrades you bring are a factor? TOO BAD KERRIGAN TIME!
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Jan 13, 2024 12:23
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BisbyWorl posted:I'll be honest, I didn't even notice her and no lines popped up.  I was a bit slow on grabbing the screenshot, but the text is still readable. Oh yeah - killing zerg is now a crime. Nostalgamus fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 13:17
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Content in that screenshot might be spoilers but otoh it's HotS's story so 
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Jan 13, 2024 13:25
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Also not trying to be all "Kerrigan did nothing wrong" but while these Protoss might not be the Designated Baddies, they did just open up by threatening to kill her if they get word to Shakuras. There's no reason to think it's an idle threat. The writers probably could have eased into this by having a little bit more dialog where Kerrigan tries to parley to no avail, but it's not like these Protoss pose no threat to her if left alone to phone home.
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Jan 13, 2024 13:29
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BisbyWorl posted:
So uh. Essence count is gonna be hard to maintain, huh?
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Jan 13, 2024 13:40
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Redeye Flight posted:This rapid slide back into Queen Bitch of the Universe mode would be interesting narrative clay to play with if they hadn't sabotaged it pre-emptively. Yeah. I was thinking during the whole Izsha design discussion that, in a better version of the story where Sarah Kerrigan and the Queen of Blades aren't literally different people, Izsha's human face could hint at her having had a desire for human connection even when she's at her most Zerg Queen. And this whole conflict with the Protoss would make for another force pushing her back into that life, since the protoss have entirely legitimate reasons not to trust that she's changed and absolutely would want to destroy her while she's weakened. Would make for an especially fun contrast on the heels of how the story goes down on Char, if you did that first. There's just enough scraps here that I could believe the high-level pitch for this campaign really was intended to be about that conflict between the two people Kerrigan could become from here. But somewhere between that and the script actually being written they forgot to actually make her conflicted about it, so her flipping between sympathetic and genocidal just comes off as inconsistent writing.
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Jan 13, 2024 13:47
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GunnerJ posted:Content in that screenshot might be spoilers but otoh it's HotS's story so Fair point. I've added a spoiler tag just in case.
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Jan 13, 2024 13:55
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Hm, I'm gonna go with 222 essences. And I don't think these Protoss being a regular Zerg elimination squad somehow makes it worse that Kerrigan is killing them, compared to Raynor mowing down scores of Protoss with a red color scheme for the crime of, uh, trying to repel him from the heritage sites he was robbing? Both are just the regular kind of RTS violence.
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Jan 13, 2024 14:06
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I'm guessing 230 Essence.GunnerJ posted:Also not trying to be all "Kerrigan did nothing wrong" but while these Protoss might not be the Designated Baddies, they did just open up by threatening to kill her if they get word to Shakuras. There's no reason to think it's an idle threat. The writers probably could have eased into this by having a little bit more dialog where Kerrigan tries to parley to no avail, but it's not like these Protoss pose no threat to her if left alone to phone home. The Protoss' very first greeting here is "Queen of Blades" followed by an insult. Kerrigan has time for exactly one observation line of "oh Protoss, you're here too", then the Protoss instantly go full-hostile without even giving Kerrigan a chance to say anything further. She doesn't parley because they didn't even give her the chance to do so. Nor should they! The Protoss should immediately assume Kerrigan's intentions are hostile and not waste words on her, because their experiences with Kerrigan are as follows: (a) working under the Overmind to destroy their homeworld of Aiur, (b) betraying and murdering a beloved Protoss warrior Fenix, (c) infesting their leader Raz, (d) wiping out an entire Protoss fleet led by Artanis, and (e) spending the last four years consolidating her power to dominate the sector even more.
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Jan 13, 2024 14:22
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Yeah, HotS overall has worse writing than WoL imho, but this particular story bit is fine. The Protoss were justified to attacking Kerrigan on sight, and she had no real chance to negotiate with them. I totally forgot ESSENCE ESSENCE ESSENCE in HotS, I'm guessing the count will pass 350 easily.
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Jan 13, 2024 14:29
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247 is my guess and it’s probably too low Essence essence essence essence essence essence
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Jan 13, 2024 15:16
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Gonna go with 144, because all this essence talk is gross.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:29
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Essence at least kind of makes sense, unlike something else coming up in a while.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:13
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I'm gonna go with 300. We haven't even met the essence-iest character yet. Dude makes Abathur sound like an essence denier.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:17
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JohnKilltrane posted:I'm gonna go with 300. We haven't even met the essence-iest character yet. Dude makes Abathur sound like an essence denier. Oh god I forgot about him. I might be doomed…… No, no, I stay at 155.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:35
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The whole ESSENCE! thing attaches literal and mechanical meaning to something that was originally more of a metaphorical, philosophical concept. I find this annoying because you're taking something with nuance and removing that nuance. In the SC1 background, the creators of the Protoss deemed their creation to have 'purity of form', but they were weak on 'purity of essence', which the second creation, the Zerg, apparently succeeded on. Part of the Overmind's general goal in hunting and attacking the Protoss was to finish what his creators started and become complete by taking the protoss into himself. Psionics are somehow part of this, which is why the terran psi potential (esp. Kerrigan) were interesting to him/them, driving the original push into terran space. That's all interesting. What is 'purity of essence' or 'purity of form' exactly? We can speculate! It opens up something you can think about. Little did Big O know that all he needed to do was just gank some Protoss raiding parties and collect their pickups, would have made the Zerg's lives easier bladededge fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 17:05
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I always interpreted that line as "whatever lifeform we infest, whatever shape we take, we're still Zerg" (=subservient to the Overmind).
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Jan 13, 2024 17:07
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not sure what the thread is asking for with regard to Izsha - a line in the script where Kerrigan says "oh, if it isn't Izsha, my adjutant, who I created with a human face to remind me of my humanity" you are allowed to make such inferences for yourself. there is nothing stopping you
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Jan 13, 2024 17:18
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I have a feeling this game won't delve into being the baddies in a well reasoned and potentially interesting manner. Seems like a fun mission, tho.
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Jan 13, 2024 17:41
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250 is my guess.
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Jan 13, 2024 17:42
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I'm gonna call for a nice big 512 Essences. Probably overshooting significantly but they do throw the word around a lot. Actually not bothered by its excessive use, because the Zerg are primarily a biohorror faction and biohorror stories always pick some choice term and layer it on thick, like DNA or parasite. In this case the Zerg just use "essence" in its place as a weird genetic catch-all term where some other story would be chattering endlessly about mitochondria. It's basically its own kind of space magic, after a point, but not much more than the T-virus is.
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Jan 13, 2024 17:45
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The amount of essences is OVER 9000
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Jan 13, 2024 17:50
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How the Zerg incorporate new species into the Swarm in SC 1, according to the manual:quote:Although extremely small, worm-like, and possessing no ability to manipulate their physical surroundings, the Zerg adapted to survive. They developed the ability to burrow into the flesh of the less vulnerable species indigenous to Zerus. Feeding off the nutrients contained within the spinal fluids of their hosts, the Zerg learned to parasitically merge with their host creatures. Once they became capable of controlling the metabolic and anatomical processes of their hosts, the Zerg used their new bodies to manipulate their surroundings. How the Zerg incorporate new species into the Swarm in SC 2: They pick up a DNA helix-shaped powerup on the map.
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Jan 13, 2024 17:54
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:The amount of essences is OVER 9000 There’s no way THAT can be right, can it?????
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Jan 13, 2024 17:54
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Karia posted:
lol I didn't remember Abathur being so obsessed with essence. I think that you probably need to see and hear him in motion to really appreciate him, though. For instance, I think that in the "I'll make your arm better" scene he actually sloshes forward and then recoils after Kerrigan snaps back.
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Jan 13, 2024 18:21
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Now I don't avoid the Zerg, Matt. But I do deny them my essence!
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gohuskies posted:How the Zerg incorporate new species into the Swarm in SC 1, according to the manual: That's overselling it a bit. The zerg by SC1 clearly incorporated the DNA of their subsumed species, since they were able to hatch them from zerg eggs. Zerg have always had a big unstable-alien-DNA thing going on. And the map powerup is just a gameplay visual for getting living tissue samples. The concept of incorporating alien DNA has always been a core part of the Zerg. Calling it essence all the time is a dumb coat of paint to make what the zerg does more like magic and less like science, at least from their own perspective. Along with tying DNA concretely to the whole "purity of form/purity of essence" thing the Xel'naga had going on, just in case you'd forgotten that the Zerg had Purity of Essence, and wanted the Protoss, who had Purity of Form, and it was very important that something had Purity of Form and Purity of Essence and the Zerg are the ones with the Essence. Essence. It wouldn't grate so bad if they weren't saying the word every other sentence, good god.
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Jan 13, 2024 18:23
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I'm going to guess at 8 Essences per mission + 2 per intermission so however much that is for how many missions we have left.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:27
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Despite having played it I have not a clue how many essence are in the entire campaign. It all just blurs together like watching episodes of The Smurfs and their use of smurf. My queen, the protoss are smurfing our hive cluster. Cough. Anyway, I'm guessing... 50, and that the count will be lost multiple times.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:56
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301 ESSENCE I don't necessarily blame Kerrigan for not trying to be diplomatic with the Protoss. She has every reason to think they wouldn't even consider peaceful negotiations, even though the commander is initially taken aback by her more human form. If they wanted to make her more palatable as a protagonist it probably would have been a smart idea though One of the things that the scene-by-scene sinew of this campaign really struggles with is consistent tone. One of my big theses on this game is that it's attempting to evoke the Rape/Revenge exploitation film sub-genre of the 70s in the same way that WoL evoked the Western, providing a thematic and structural touchstone for all its other plot elements. To that end, the game will often indulge in unnecessarily edgy or anti-heroic behavior on the part of its protagonist, taking her in the darkest possible directions virtually without thought. At the same time it doesn't seem to have the stomach to keep that going at a consistent pace because it knows where it's trying to go in the end, so they'll keep falling back to moments that are intended to make Kerrigan seem more compassionate and traditionally heroic in defiance of the bad things she's doing. There's a constant effort to have their cake and eat it too on having Kerrigan, and by extension the Zerg, still be kind of evil but not TOO evil, and that does a lot of damage to the narrative experience. Like, take for example the moment in this map where Kerrigan finds the brutalized corpse of one of her Swarm Queens. The writers take this as an opportunity for her to become outraged, as if the Protoss have done some horrible crime worthy of retribution. Remember, Kerrigan doesn't remember making these Swarm Queens, so she has no reason to be attached to them, and based on the dropship cutscene she believes that she's embracing her dark side by using the Zerg for her vengeful ends. She hasn't really internalized the idea that these creatures care about her, or that she might care about them. They haven't EARNED the moment of her being upset by seeing this, its just an excuse for her to show a bit of empathy while she's slaughtering people the audience think of as "Good Guys," in the hope it makes her look less villainous. The logical thing to do here if you want tonal consistency is have Kerrigan treat Nafash as callously as she does the Protoss. Lean fully into the idea that she's a rampaging revenge machine that's not interested in anything but getting what she wants. Then, later, after she's gone through some character development, you can have her look back on this moment with regret, both because she destroyed the Protoss without even trying to find a peaceful solution AND because she disrespected the dead Swarm Queen, who deserved better than to be butchered by the Protoss just as mindlessly as she killed them. Alternatively, you could have leveraged the tonal friction instead of just creating it and ignoring it. Have Kerrigan come down to the planet, collect a few Zerg, then stumble across Nafash and see what the Protoss did to her at the same time you find the frozen Hive Cluster. Take a moment to have her disturbed by the image of the Swarm Queen's ravaged remains, lean on your really quite talented voice actress to convey that she's bothered by what she's seeing, even if she doesn't completely understand why and intellectually has no reason to be. Then have the Protoss see that the Queen of Blades is here and make ready to call in reinforcements to destroy her. In this scenario, there's some nice ambiguity to Kerrigan's decision not to parley with the Protoss. Does she believe its a waste of time because of her past mistakes? Is so so consumed by her desire for revenge that she's indifferent about the Protoss' lives? Or does some part of her want justice for what they did to the Zerg here, no matter how silly that might seem to her conscious mind if she were to say it out loud? Something else they could have done here is really lean on the freeze mechanic to allow for some player expression. As we saw from the OP, you can complete the mission while doing remarkably little damage to the Protoss bases if you leverage those moments where they're helpless. Give Kerrigan a line where she muses in some ambiguous way that if she is careful, she can break those communication towers with minimal collateral damage. Then put up some kind of tracker on the UI that tells you how many Protoss buildings you've destroyed out of their starting total. You don't even need to attach a reward to this if you don't want to, just giving the player some kind of metric to evaluate how evil they're choosing to be and leaving the decision in their hands would have been neat. Establishing that you can choose to limit the harm you do in this initial confrontation would also make the progression of events to come on this planet a bit more interesting.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:24
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 06:35 |
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I'm going for 320 essence.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:30
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