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Mischievous Mink posted:How have they ruled out Israeli munitions being responsible for these incidents if there is no knowledge on how or even when they were decapitated? No, they specifically say they can't tell how the bodies were decapitated. I'm no forensics expert but I assume decapitation by knife and decapitation by RPG round or tank shell look pretty different, so I'm assuming the burning of the bodies makes it harder to tell? The article is sourced from The Media Line (who gave me a big "WHAT WILL YOU GIVE TO STOP THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR DISINFORMATION" popup), and seems to be the source for all derivative articles, because the exact wording: quote:A group of 200 forensic pathologists, anthropologists, radiologists and other experts from Israel, the U.S, Switzerland, New Zealand and elsewhere gathered at the National Center for Forensic Medicine in Tel Aviv to help identify remains from the Israel-Hamas war. Appears in nearly everything else about this. You can google that line verbatim and it pops up word-for-word in dozens of articles, so it looks like CNN, ABC &c are all referencing this particular Media Line article. It's an interesting article, and while heavily implying Hamas bound and shot people in the head, lit them on fire while still alive, decapitated them, etc, they're pretty careful not to come outright and say it. The way its referenced seems to imply that there is some sort of consensus on what's covered/insinuated in the article but the 200 international forensics experts are mentioned only once, and it seems like their work is to help identify remains, and maybe cause of death? I'm not saying this is Fake NewsTM or that anyone is reporting falsehoods, but it absolutely has an agenda and any sort of confirmation or elaboration by someone else, even one of those 200 international forensics experts, would go a long way to clarifying but so far I haven't been able to find anything. What is interesting though is that the forensics are being done at/through the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute, whose current head replaced a guy who ran an organ harvesting ring, supplied by harvesting Palestinian organs (who, some allege, were murdered for their body parts). There was a case against him until the israeli AG dismissed it and he got off with just getting fired. Weird place!
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Jan 14, 2024 05:20
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I mean come on. A nice even 40? Obviously hyperbole. Also, babies suck. Get with it. How many of those babies were gonna hang themselves on the blinds anyway? You don't need to cry "oh but think of the babies." unless your position is weak and your audience stupid. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) moist banana bread fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 05:23
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small butter posted:As much as people say that Biden is guilty of genocide, it's pretty clear that there was nothing short of military intervention that Biden could have done to prevent a brutal invasion of Gaza. Knowing some of these details, there is no way that Israel would have done anything short of this. Yeah, yeah, stop selling them then weapons, but they have enough weapons to do this invasion twice over. I agree entirely. The two carrier groups dispatched to the Med should have established a no fly zone over Gaza as soon as they were on station and able to commence flight operations.
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Jan 14, 2024 06:08
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As far as I'm aware, the IDF has released the names of every single Israeli who died on October 7th, and it included one baby. This article would imply that not all the names have been released, or that there are extra babies. Also it can't be ruled out that bodies missing heads were blown up by Israeli tank shells, as they have stated that they fired on hostages and houses, as well as intentionally killing hostages that were being taken back to Gaza.
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Jan 14, 2024 06:13
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small butter posted:As much as people say that Biden is guilty of genocide, it's pretty clear that there was nothing short of military intervention that Biden could have done to prevent a brutal invasion of Gaza. Knowing some of these details, there is no way that Israel would have done anything short of this. Yeah, yeah, stop selling them then weapons, but they have enough weapons to do this invasion twice over. There must be a reason they want even more weapons.
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Jan 14, 2024 06:25
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enahs posted:I'm not accusing anybody in this thread of this, but I wonder if there are Israeli state actors whose job it is to go on internet forums and stir poo poo up/muddy the waters about the conflict. I know that the FBI made an account here years ago but I've never seen anything about other countries doing so. It would make sense to me for them to do, especially given the amount of effort they put in to doing it in other media. Maybe not SA in particular, but other sites like reddit and twitter etc. Is anyone aware of any evidence of this that's been discovered anywhere? Given as I have already been accused of being a mouthpiece for state propaganda, presumably israeli, please do whatever you can do on your end to make sure I receive my check. rkd_ posted:There must be a reason they want even more weapons. Because Israel's leadership is moving the country steadily towards militant nationalism as an all-encompassing ethos, and part of that will be paranoid, visible propaganda in the form of everything — everything — getting militarized
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Jan 14, 2024 06:54
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They already have military diapers for their constant pants making GBS threads "defense" force. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 14, 2024 07:14
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small butter posted:Just to be clear, there were beheaded babies discovered as a result of the Hamas atrocity. I don't see a number listed, but the word "many" is used: Man, thank you so much for posting this because you’re identifying exactly the problem. Your USA Today “fact check” is woefully out of date. For example, it’s still saying that Israel confirmed 1,400 dead. A figure that was revised down to 1,200 when? Do a search and inform yourself. Israel has since released data on the civilian victims. The distribution includes precisely two infants. https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/amp/ You could argue I suppose that both were beheaded. Or beheaded and then burned alive. Or burned alive and then beheaded. Or shot and then burned alive and then beheaded. But that’s not a natural read of what’s being said by any of Israel’s mouthpieces. You’ve swallowed these propaganda lines wholesale. And you’ve really helped show that the original claim that the Israeli govt hasn’t made these claims isn’t true but more importantly its impact is still present because people hear the claim, accept it and by then it’s already too late.
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Jan 14, 2024 09:46
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There was some misreporting initially but nobody's mind is going to be changed once they learn that Hamas prefers to shoot or set babies on fire rather than decapitate them, or that it ""only"" murdered 14 children under the age of 10 in cold blood. It's still an unbelievably heinous crime that fully justified a response from Israel, and therefore gave them cover to carry out reprisals against Palestinian civilians.
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Jan 14, 2024 12:03
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was some misreporting initially but nobody's mind is going to be changed once they learn that Hamas prefers to shoot or set babies on fire rather than decapitate them, or that it ""only"" murdered 14 children under the age of 10 in cold blood. It's still an unbelievably heinous crime that fully justified a response from Israel, and therefore gave them cover to carry out reprisals against Palestinian civilians. When it’s pointed out that about 1% of Israelis killed by Hamas were children *and they were apparently so bloodthirsty they just wanted to kill everyone and rape their bodies*, while the most moral army in the world has killed several thousand, making up what, 30-40% of casualties, it inconveniently gets people asking questions. Like ‘wait a second, why is Israel killing so many children.’ And ‘if Israel is going to lie, repeatedly, about something so awful, what else will the state lie about?’ So, yes, it matters a whole lot.
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Jan 14, 2024 12:09
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E: nevermind.
Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 12:14
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was some misreporting initially but nobody's mind is going to be changed once they learn that Hamas prefers to shoot or set babies on fire rather than decapitate them, or that it ""only"" murdered 14 children under the age of 10 in cold blood. It's still an unbelievably heinous crime that fully justified a response from Israel, and therefore gave them cover to carry out reprisals against Palestinian civilians. No. Israel is running a concentration camp. When the inmates revolt, it doesn't "justify a response from" the camp guards, no matter how heinous a crime the inmates commit. That fact aside, Israel has at this point murdered many thousands of children. I suppose you will be applying your own logic fairly, and calling for Hamas to provide a justified response?
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Jan 14, 2024 12:23
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Esran posted:No. Israel is running a concentration camp. When the inmates revolt, it doesn't "justify a response from" the camp guards, no matter how heinous a crime the inmates commit. 100% on both points.
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Jan 14, 2024 12:25
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was some misreporting initially but nobody's mind is going to be changed once they learn that Hamas prefers to shoot or set babies on fire rather than decapitate them, or that it ""only"" murdered 14 children under the age of 10 in cold blood. It's still an unbelievably heinous crime that fully justified a response from Israel, and therefore gave them cover to carry out reprisals against Palestinian civilians. So I assume the inverse also applies that Hamas was justified in the Oct 7th attack due to the unbelievably heinous crimes committed by Israel during the March of Return or whenever the last time Israel was killing Gazans?
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Jan 14, 2024 13:03
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was some misreporting initially but nobody's mind is going to be changed once they learn that Hamas prefers to shoot or set babies on fire rather than decapitate them, or that it ""only"" murdered 14 children under the age of 10 in cold blood. It's still an unbelievably heinous crime that fully justified a response from Israel, and therefore gave them cover to carry out reprisals against Palestinian civilians. This is indeed the narrative the Israeli government is feeding to the Israeli public. It is extremely far from the narrative outside Israel. The world no longer believes that Israel has a right to defend itself.
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Jan 14, 2024 13:24
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HazCat posted:This is indeed the narrative the Israeli government is feeding to the Israeli public. I think this is subtly wrong. Everyone* believes countries, including Israel, have some right to self defense. But there's a limit to what countries are allowed to do in the name of that. People are looking and what Israel is doing and are running out of patience to hand wave extremely obvious and ongoing genocide under that justification.
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Jan 14, 2024 13:39
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KillHour posted:I think this is subtly wrong. Everyone* believes countries, including Israel, have some right to self defense. But there's a limit to what countries are allowed to do in the name of that. People are looking and what Israel is doing and are running out of patience to hand wave extremely obvious and ongoing genocide under that justification. I was using the phrase the way Israel uses it. The current violence against Palestine is and always has been the sort of thing Israel considers 'self defense'. You can literally read the post I was responding to to see that. It's an apartheid state. It has never existed in a form that was not inherently violent.
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Jan 14, 2024 13:51
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Israel had the right to defend itself on Oct. 7, they simply failed to. Everything they've done since has just made things infinitely worse.
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Jan 14, 2024 13:58
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HazCat posted:I was using the phrase the way Israel uses it. The current violence against Palestine is and always has been the sort of thing Israel considers 'self defense'. You can literally read the post I was responding to to see that. This just plays into their hands. We should refuse to engage with their misleading framing. The response to "we have a right to self defense" should be "what you're doing isn't self defense." Otherwise, you end up with sound bites like "Forums user HazCat says Israel isn't allowed to defend itself!"
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Jan 14, 2024 14:09
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Stringent posted:Israel had the right to defend itself on Oct. 7, they simply failed to. Everything they've done since has just made things infinitely worse. This is how we know caterwauling about Hamas atrocities is pure propaganda. If the IDF truly thought they were avenging mass baby rape, why are they fighting like losers and cowards? The baby rape propaganda is for Americans. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 14, 2024 15:59
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Man, thank you so much for posting this because you’re identifying exactly the problem. You're wrong about this in two ways. First, this isn't data from the Israeli government. Second, it's nowhere near being the complete bodycount. As the article puts it: quote:Partial data by Hebrew media covering the civilians — killed by thousands of invading terrorists and by some of the thousands of rockets fired that day at Israeli cities — reveals that they include two infants, 12 other children under the age of 10, 36 civilians aged 10-19, and 25 elderly people over the age of 80, accounting for 75 of the 764 civilians. quote:An unknown number of bodies — in mid-November the number was around 100 — are still awaiting identification at the Shura pathological center near Tel Aviv, with difficulties in the process arising because of the state of the remains. Some of the remains are believed to belong to Hamas terrorists. That said, given the highly damaged state of many of the bodies, as well as the chaotic and traumatic circumstances in which rescuers had to work, I wouldn't be shocked if some of the witnesses on the ground out there gathering the bodies misidentified dead children as younger than they actually were. By all accounts, it was not pleasant work.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:20
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was some misreporting initially but nobody's mind is going to be changed once they learn that Hamas prefers to shoot or set babies on fire rather than decapitate them, or that it ""only"" murdered 14 children under the age of 10 in cold blood. It's still an unbelievably heinous crime that fully justified a response from Israel, and therefore gave them cover to carry out reprisals against Palestinian civilians. There is not any strong evidence for this either. Even the state israel needs these lurid depictions of depraved Hamas terrorists doing unspeakable things to babies and pregnant women. They need to be inhuman rapist monster savages. They need it for the obvious reason, excusing and justifying the next stage of the multi-decades-long genocide they're executing against their captive subaltern population. Another reason they need it is so that people who don't necessarily fully back the zionist project can make a statement often made in this thread: "look how evil the terrorists are! of COURSE israel was going to respond, how could they not?", a subtler justification, and one that does its works after the bombing and occupation of Gaza stops. It's a backstop to say that yes, they got carried away, but look at how awful and depraved these attacks were! The israeli people were furious and heartbroken. This was a tragedy and shouldn't have happened, but look, it wasn't a genocide. I think as things continue the israeli propaganda machine, as well as zionists everywhere, are going to triple and quadruple down on the horrors of October 7 because it's going to get increasingly difficult to assert that the IDF had no hand in the deaths that occurred. As more testimony from hostages, people in kibbutzes caught in firefights, and soldiers comes out -- especially as this drags on and social fatigue begins to really take hold -- as well as further examples of the IDF killing hostages, people trying to surrender, etc, it's going to ramp up. The line that 10/7 was the worst slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust is going to take on a very different hue if more and more of those deaths can be directly attributed to the actions of the IDF in the immediate aftermath of the initial attacks.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:39
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:There is not any strong evidence for this either. Even the state Can this poster get probated for continually strawmanning, ignoring sources because of reasons, refusing to accept a number of their claims being false, and E: Updated my language, which was wrong. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 16:46
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ASIC v Danny Bro posted:Like a moth to a flame, really. All 430 of the military and the police who died, definitely justified targets. And of the remaining 750, at least half of them were killed by the IDF.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:49
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Speleothing posted:And of the remaining 750, at least half of them were killed by the IDF. Do you have a source for this? This claim goes well beyond anything I've seen from anyone remotely serious, and also seems to be extremely unlikely given the numerous eyewitness accounts of Hamas killing people as well as the length of time before the IDF was able to muster a significant response.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:55
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Speleothing posted:All 430 of the military and the police who died, definitely justified targets. That's a bold claim on half the civilians being killed by the idf, it's been made several times with no sources. Other than that one house being destroyed killed a handful.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:56
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Stringent posted:So I assume the inverse also applies that Hamas was justified in the Oct 7th attack due to the unbelievably heinous crimes committed by Israel during the March of Return or whenever the last time Israel was killing Gazans?
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Jan 14, 2024 16:56
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Kalit posted:Can this poster get probated for continually strawmanning, ignoring sources because of reasons, refusing to accept a number of their claims being false, and posting in bad faith in general? I know I'm not supposed to complain out loud about bad faith posting, but the few reports I've done over the past days when I've seen this stupid poo poo has resulted in nothing. What precisely is he wrong about?
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Jan 14, 2024 17:02
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Kalit posted:Can this poster get probated for continually strawmanning, ignoring sources because of reasons, refusing to accept a number of their claims being false, and posting in bad faith in general? I know I'm not supposed to complain out loud about bad faith posting, but the few reports I've done over the past days when I've seen this stupid poo poo has resulted in nothing. I'm trying to make my points in the understanding that the apartheid terror state engaged in genocide has an extremely modern, extremely powerful propaganda apparatus, deep connections with western media, and an international network of people with full material and ideological investment in their ethnonationalist project. Everything I post is through that lens, and we (as in, everyone) have to be careful about the statements made by israel and coming out of israel, even if they are laundered through a major western media outlet. If you'd like to argue that that is not happening, I'd gladly have that argument with you. I think I can build a very compelling case, but that's not something you've done yet. On a personal note, I've never once posted in this thread in bad faith, or to farm reactions, or show off to my forums clique, or whatever. I have always posted here with my earnestly held beliefs making arguments I think are salient and compelling. I was sarcastic in the beginning, but that was in service of my argument, and I stopped once I was told to knock it off. If you want to argue that I'm wrong on some point, please do so, not make personal attacks because you don't like my positions here.
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Jan 14, 2024 17:12
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Nucleic Acids posted:What precisely is he wrong about? Refusing that Hamas burned down houses when presented with a reputable news source Pentecoastal Elites posted:Physician, heal thyself. ZAKA, a representative/member of whom was quoted in the first link, is about as far from a reputable source as you can get. They're a far-right organization with an extremely sordid history, as well as being a blatant propaganda vehicle of the worst sort. They're also who the majority of allegations about Hamas rapes are coming from. If ZAKA says something, your best bet is to believe the opposite. Pentecoastal Elites posted:
That the Houthis are trying to enact a global trade blockade when they stated multiple times that they're not: Pentecoastal Elites posted:this is from the deputy foreign minister of Sana'a, I'm not sure how well oiled a machine the Houthi PR department is. Abu Talib, later in the article, blames the attacks on non-israeli ships on the UAE. Not saying I believe him (though the UAE definitely has a bigger motivation than the Houthis here), but I'm judging them by their actions, not tweets. Pentecoastal Elites posted:
That most recent post of theirs was trying to pretend like there's no evidence of Hamas murdering children (14 under the age of 10 to be precise) when there's lots of reputable news articles/sources ITT about it. I'm sure I could dig up more, but that's a few quick examples of their bad faith posting. Pentecoastal Elites posted:I'm trying to make my points in the understanding that the apartheid terror state engaged in genocide has an extremely modern, extremely powerful propaganda apparatus, deep connections with western media, and an international network of people with full material and ideological investment in their ethnonationalist project. Everything I post is through that lens, and we (as in, everyone) have to be careful about the statements made by israel and coming out of israel, even if they are laundered through a major western media outlet. If you'd like to argue that that is not happening, I'd gladly have that argument with you. I think I can build a very compelling case, but that's not something you've done yet. Sorry, I misspoke, you're not assuming good faith and your posts are not adding to discussion. This includes ignoring legitimate news sources solely because "they're western media, therefore untrustworthy", assuming I have views that I don't have, etc. It's in the D&D rules, maybe you should read them. Kalit fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 17:13
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Kalit posted:Can this poster get probated for continually strawmanning, ignoring sources because of reasons, refusing to accept a number of their claims being false, and posting in bad faith in general? I know I'm not supposed to complain out loud about bad faith posting, but the few reports I've done over the past days when I've seen this stupid poo poo has resulted in nothing. Someone disagreeing with you does not mean they're posting in bad faith, and you putting faith in different sources from them does not mean they don't believe what they're saying, especially when they've bothered to explain why they don't believe the same sources as you. But sure, call the manager.
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Jan 14, 2024 17:17
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socialsecurity posted:That's a bold claim on half the civilians being killed by the idf, it's been made several times with no sources. Other than that one house being destroyed killed a handful. https://new.thecradle.co/articles/israeli-army-ordered-mass-hannibal-directive-on-7-oct-media https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/383553?ssr=1 70 to 90 vehicles. Plus "people dressed as police" shooting young women fleeing the rave. Plus the shelling of the kibbutz. The numbers aren't released, obviously, but the math is easy to do .
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Jan 14, 2024 17:18
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Kalit posted:Refusing that Hamas burned down houses when presented with a reputable news source Is ZAKA reputable? Is an article posted in CNN or Al-Jazeera reputable if it only cites ZAKA as a source? I argue no in both cases. If you disagree, please make the argument! As for the Houthis, I copped to being wrong about the official statements. I wanted to use what I assumed your position was in order to make a point about hypocrisy based on believing or disbelieving statements selectively. Maybe that was dirty pool and for that, I apologize, but that was still a point I wholeheartedly believe and think is relevant. I'm not posting in bad faith if you shown that part of my argument was wrong; I don't think I can be held to a standard of perfection. Again, I am not posting in bad faith because I do actually believe the israeli propaganda apparatus exists and has deep ties to western news agencies. If you think I am wrong, please make the argument!
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Jan 14, 2024 17:23
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Is ZAKA reputable? Is an article posted in CNN or Al-Jazeera reputable if it only cites ZAKA as a source? I argue no in both cases. If you disagree, please make the argument! I posted an NYT article as another example, which you ignored. There's lots of other articles/interviews out there too. And congrats, you win any argument if you ignore all media/news articles that you think is bad for *reasons* and only believe those that support your preconceived notions. But, once again, this is against D&D rules. E: Also, as far as your "copped to being wrong", I still can't tell whether you believe those official statements or not since you were so determined to see if I would pass your "test" on being a hypocrite or not. It seemed like you were just trying to get a sick burn on me and saying whatever could help you do that. Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 17:27
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Kalit posted:I posted an NYT article as another example, which you ignored. There's lots of other articles/interviews out there too. I mean pointing out deficiencies in sources isn't something you "win" at. It just means you've got more info.
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Jan 14, 2024 17:38
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Speleothing posted:All 430 of the military and the police who died, definitely justified targets. See I'm seeing people go no "no proof of beheaded babies" while at the same time posting about the IDF killing Israelis while this has been disproven again and again. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/oct/13/instagram-posts/reports-of-260-deaths-at-israeli-music-fest-are-no/ It's great that people are saying "I won't fall for that sides propaganda" but that doesn't mean you should swallow the other side's just because you agree with them.
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Jan 14, 2024 17:38
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Josef bugman posted:I mean pointing out deficiencies in sources isn't something you "win" at. It just means you've got more info. They've seemed to have written off all western media, not just that one article from Al-Jazeera. That way, when I post more sources of the same thing, they can just refute all of them by simply claiming something along the lines of Pentecoastal Elites posted:I do actually believe the israeli propaganda apparatus exists and has deep ties to western news agencies This is why I posted the Al-Jazeera article specifically in the first place, because I feel like that's all too common of a claim among some posters ITT Kalit fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 17:39
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Madkal posted:See I'm seeing people go no "no proof of beheaded babies" while at the same time posting about the IDF killing Israelis while this has been disproven again and again. Disproven again and again except for Thursday January 11th, 2024 when they admitted it. Also your link has nothing to do with what I said. Let's take a look at that link you posted: it's 3 months old, dated Oct 13, refuting an Instagram video about the number dead, and look at that the primary source is ZAKA again. I'm sure that ZAKA is generally able to count so I'll take ~260 as a good number. But I sure as hell don't trust them to accurately report the location or condition of bodies. And then the article goes on to be all coy about the dead babies and rapes, taking that tack that "we're not checking those right now, but surely Joe Biden wouldn't repeat it unless he knew" Speleothing fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 17:43
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Kalit posted:I posted an NYT article as another example, which you ignored. There's lots of other articles/interviews out there too. I think this is becoming a derail about my posts, so I won't respond to my own posting beyond this, but if you think I'm ignoring an article you posted please call it to my attention and I'll take a look. I am assuming that the people I'm talking to do believe the things they are posting -- it's just that in some cases I don't think they're aware of or forthright about some of the things that necessarily fall out of their position, but I try to address that. I think I'm contributing positively to the conversation, and while it's the moderators' call to make, there is an ignore feature if you really just can't stand the content of my posts. Anyway, one thing I really do want to push back on is that I'm discounting reportage because of my own preconceived notions or I have an ideological position that every western journalist is a lying scumbag. israel has a unique relationship with the west, America specifically, deep ties to news agencies, and mature, powerful, and high-tech propaganda and state intelligence apparatus. I think it's incredibly naive to point at a news outlet, NYT for example, and say "if it's in here it's 100% true and cannot be propaganda". I think israeli ties to major media is pervasive throughout America and the UK. In fact, The Intercept did two very good pieces recently about israel shaping CNN's coverage and pro-israel bias in NYT reporting. The Intercept is a significant western outlet that does good work and I don't agree with everything they say or do. If you want to say I think this is good journalism only because I think israel is bad, that's an argument to make I suppose, but we can have that discussion. In short, I don't think just because something is in the NYT or comes out of the mouth of a CNN anchor that it's true. I think most people on this website would agree with me that it's certainly not the case when it's eg. Fox! I think even outlets like Al-Jazeera, it's not enough to think that they're good so whatever they publish is necessarily true (though I trust them more for middle east reportage, generally). If we're talking about general interest pieces, trade and economics, mundane politics, then I don't think it matters so much. Maybe some ideologically biased sources get through, maybe some misinformation is spread through otherwise good channels. It's going to happen. However, we are currently talking about a state executing an ongoing genocide, who is using the fullest extent of its propaganda apparatus and influence networks to diminish and excuse what they're doing. It's absolutely necessary to examine everything coming out of israel with a fine-tooth comb. They have every reason in the world to hide, downplay, and justified what they're doing, and they have the resources to do so. Expecting them to not use those resources and squeeze those relationships is, in my view, unacceptably naive.
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Jan 14, 2024 17:51
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Madkal posted:See I'm seeing people go no "no proof of beheaded babies" while at the same time posting about the IDF killing Israelis while this has been disproven again and again. Maybe you should read the article you're linking to. Nothing in that piece attempts to disprove the assertion that the IDF killed Israelis. The piece is attempting to rebut a claim that there was no mass shooting at all on October 7th. That's not what anyone is talking about in this thread. Even if the article had been relevant, I have to question your ability to evaluate sources when you cite an article which mainly sources the Israeli government, the Israeli PM and the US government (who were given the information by the Israelis, and when asked if they trust the information go "Not our job to fact check lol"). You're trying to convince people who have already told you they don't trust Israel. Why would this convince anyone?
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Jan 14, 2024 18:04
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