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Josherino)
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Wild, welcome to the thread. Hey Tulip, your posts made me think of how my relationship with my mom got better when I started communicating how stuff she said made me feel rather than just eating it. Not saying that's what you need but I wanted to bring it up because it helped in my personal situation. If you've got an otherwise healthy relationship with the people that are aggravating whatever's going on in your situation, they'd probably be happy to try to avoid doing stuff that makes you feel lovely and are just trying to help in their own damaged and incomplete ways. The other thing I thought of while reading some of this is how when I'm otherwise unengaged I can read into other people's behavior in weird and sometimes hosed up ways. "A buddy hasn't talked one-on-one in a while? They must hate me now. Everyone in my friend group has judged me as annoying. I'm going to leave before they can ditch me." and that kind of poo poo. It is not an insignificant amount of empathy and consideration to remember that you are not the focus of other peoples' lives and when you're hurting really bad it's easy to forget to do that. Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 16:11 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 15:58
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Jorge Bell posted:Wild, welcome to the thread. It is nice to know people are around.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:02
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Helluva, obvs no need to answer but what's the big response to learning that she was a SW come from? It's not immediately apparent to me, a robot
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Jan 8, 2024 16:13
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Jorge Bell posted:
Oh man yeah this is the worst because it masquerades as trying to be helpful but it's all projection- and it's hard for me to dismiss entirely because I am genuinely worried about other people
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Jan 8, 2024 16:22
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This isn't my space but I wanted to say I'm really happy to see this thread still going. Glancing at it from time to time back in the day all I could see was how it helped people, even if just a little bit. I know it's corny and not worth hardly anything but I just wanted y'all to know I'm rooting for you, all of you. Sorry I can't do more than that. [yu yu hakusho tune]thank you for reading my pooost
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Jan 8, 2024 16:30
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Jorge Bell posted:Helluva, obvs no need to answer but what's the big response to learning that she was a SW come from? It's not immediately apparent to me, a robot If I had the appropriate information before we started dating: - I would have requested her to get a screening. I'm a monogamist. - I would have used proper protection. - My sense of trust wouldn't be obliterated.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:31
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All of those are fair and reasonable things to expect a partner to disclose, I get it now. Thanks for explaining.Fortaleza posted:This isn't my space but 
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Jan 8, 2024 19:43
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In two weeks I've got my fourth intake interview of the past six months, after being turned down by the previous three clinics for being a case "too serious" for them  every mental health professional I have had to deal with since moving to this country acted like I'm the first person with clinical depression and lifelong anxiety they've seen before in their lives.VVV I'm not in the USA. I moved from one European country to another about two years ago, and went from medicated and in therapy to nothing and fighting with the health system. I tried to off myself last year, and after that I had to go through a months long process of proving yoga and similar wasn't enough to help me before they even considered putting me back on the medication I needed. It's been an adventure that's made me feel insane on top of everything else. Black Feather has issued a correction as of 08:51 on Jan 9, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 21:19
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Black Feather posted:In two weeks I've got my fourth intake interview of the past six months, after being turned down by the previous three clinics for being a case "too serious" for them your diagnosis is MDD and GAD and you're not being admitted to in/out-patient clinics? something doesn't add up, that's 60% of america (unless you're not in america?). i dont understand
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Jan 8, 2024 21:44
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So far my experience with mental health in Europe (Northern Europe particularly) is that it seems to be entirely populated with people who seem to believe that mental illness isn't real unless you are literally unable to work and if you attempt to convince them otherwise they will just go "this isn't America".
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Jan 9, 2024 12:19
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AceOfFlames posted:So far my experience with mental health in Europe (Northern Europe particularly) is that it seems to be entirely populated with people who seem to believe that mental illness isn't real unless you are literally unable to work and if you attempt to convince them otherwise they will just go "this isn't America". same in Turkey.
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Jan 9, 2024 12:21
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AceOfFlames posted:So far my experience with mental health in Europe (Northern Europe particularly) is that it seems to be entirely populated with people who seem to believe that mental illness isn't real unless you are literally unable to work and if you attempt to convince them otherwise they will just go "this isn't America". Without trying to dox myself, I moved from a southern European country to one a few countries up north, and it's funny because where I'm from we have this very strong idea that the northern you go in Europe the more mental health is taken seriously. Now I know it's all bullshit.
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Jan 9, 2024 12:24
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the amazing here is the implication that mental health is taken seriously in the United States
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Jan 9, 2024 13:48
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:the amazing here is the implication that mental health is taken seriously in the United States Because it seems like at least people actually TALK about it there. Terms like executive dysfunction, rejection dysphoria, etc, at least are paid lip service to and people try to give you drugs, if only just to get kickbacks. Here, it's either basic CBT or "have you tried going on walks/exercising more?". Or even"Well you don't LOOK depressed. Goodbye." Hell, I know mm multiple people who had their therapists suggest "just get an SO".
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Jan 9, 2024 14:57
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At one point I thought I could improve my life by leaving the US but I think I've largely outgrown that.Jorge Bell posted:Hey Tulip, your posts made me think of how my relationship with my mom got better when I started communicating how stuff she said made me feel rather than just eating it. Not saying that's what you need but I wanted to bring it up because it helped in my personal situation. If you've got an otherwise healthy relationship with the people that are aggravating whatever's going on in your situation, they'd probably be happy to try to avoid doing stuff that makes you feel lovely and are just trying to help in their own damaged and incomplete ways. It helps somewhat. My mother is actually an especially frustrating one because she genuinely does only care if her children are happy - which is definitely nicer than her berating us for not being doctors or whatever, but it also means that she guilt-spirals if we talk about feeling frustrated or sad. There's one specific trigger of mine that I've talked about with a lot of friends, and so far precisely one of them has said "Oh, sorry, didn't realize that made you feel that way, I'll stop." I am extremely grateful to that friend I gotta say. There's something extra frustrating about the 30 other times people have basically been like "no, it shouldn't upset you, you're wrong for feeling upset about that." Which like, TBH, its not that big, this isn't a trigger that makes me spiral, it just makes me feel belittled, but its super frustrating to have people respond to my request for how to be treated like its a challenge.
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Jan 9, 2024 15:10
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AceOfFlames posted:Because it seems like at least people actually TALK about it there. Terms like executive dysfunction, rejection dysphoria, etc, at least are paid lip service to and people try to give you drugs, if only just to get kickbacks. Here, it's either basic CBT or "have you tried going on walks/exercising more?". Or even"Well you don't LOOK depressed. Goodbye." Hell, I know mm multiple people who had their therapists suggest "just get an SO". Actual suggestion I had to prove I tried and it did not work, after yoga failed to make my anxiety disappear in seven days: "Make an appointment with yourself, write down on your agenda specific times to do things and go out of the house! That will make you do it instead of thinking about being anxious."
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Jan 9, 2024 15:23
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Tulip posted:There's one specific trigger of mine that I've talked about with a lot of friends, and so far precisely one of them has said "Oh, sorry, didn't realize that made you feel that way, I'll stop." I am extremely grateful to that friend I gotta say. There's something extra frustrating about the 30 other times people have basically been like "no, it shouldn't upset you, you're wrong for feeling upset about that." Which like, TBH, its not that big, this isn't a trigger that makes me spiral, it just makes me feel belittled, but its super frustrating to have people respond to my request for how to be treated like its a challenge. That sounds really lovely. Consider yourself validated, bitch
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Jan 9, 2024 17:41
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Jorge Bell posted:That sounds really lovely. Consider yourself validated, bitch Thank you. I just kind of had to express some frustration and anger about it. Feels better just kind of getting it off my chest in such an easy way.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:37
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I'm sad I moved and have to find a new therapist. This one is the first time I've ever had a good rapport and felt like I'm being helped by our conversations. It feels so daunting to find a new one now.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:05
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Not sure if I'm doing better mentally or I've just drowned out the desire for human companionship with hunting for 6mm Warhammer proxies
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Jan 10, 2024 01:34
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My dog's been having some hip issues at ~8 years old and I can't help but think this is the beginning of the end. He just moves slower for the moment, but all I can think about is how this is just going to get progressively worse and that get better is not an option. Week 3 since he tweaked something and we noticed altered mobility, the vet said it was a back issue and to let him rest, but he still sprints after balls and jumps up and down on couchs and beds regardless. I guess the only option left is just enjoy the time left with my friend and hoping that number is 7 years and not 1. This is mental health related because my answer to this kind of problem is to think "no more dogs after this" and that having nothing is always preferable to enduring the risk of losing them. I'm also frozen at my desk and this is adding to it but also that was gonna happen anyway and I can't really be motivated to do much of anything.
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Jan 10, 2024 22:26
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skooma512 posted:My dog's been having some hip issues at ~8 years old and I can't help but think this is the beginning of the end. He just moves slower for the moment, but all I can think about is how this is just going to get progressively worse and that get better is not an option. Week 3 since he tweaked something and we noticed altered mobility, the vet said it was a back issue and to let him rest, but he still sprints after balls and jumps up and down on couchs and beds regardless. He could still have many years left. My last dog had hip issues, and I think there were at least 5 years from when they first started showing up until he passed away. And he was also very overweight, which exacerbated the situation. One of my current dogs (around the same age as yours) has also started having hip issues since a year or two ago, and it doesn't seem like they'll be big problem for a while. One thing to keep in mind is watching his weight. One thing that's been very frustrating to me is that both my dogs are in the process of getting overweight, and my dad keeps giving them too many treats. I try to make him stop and have told him "you're only going to make her life worse" (about the one with hip issues), and he says he understands and then just keeps doing it because he's old and it's part of his routine*. And like a lot of dog owners, he doesn't comprehend that dogs aren't people. They aren't actually going to personally hold it against you believe you give them fewer treats! I feel powerless to do anything about it, short of literally throwing away the treats. I don't think he understands that even a bigger dog is still only the size/weight of a small child - people just assume "big animals need big portions." On the upside, he at least doesn't give them human food. * I kind of feel similarly about this to how you seem to feel about your dog. Like I'm seeing the beginnings of my dad's brain just decaying due to old age. My mom has dealt with retired life very well - she stays active and does lots of activities, and barring something like cancer I can easily see her staying lucid into her 80s/90s (she's 75, but you wouldn't believe it if you saw her - she looks like someone in her 50s). But my dad doesn't really do anything but watch internet/TV and lose his mind in response to it.
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Jan 10, 2024 23:36
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Ytlaya posted:He could still have many years left. My last dog had hip issues, and I think there were at least 5 years from when they first started showing up until he passed away. And he was also very overweight, which exacerbated the situation. One of my current dogs (around the same age as yours) has also started having hip issues since a year or two ago, and it doesn't seem like they'll be big problem for a while. Ok, that makes me a feel a little better, and 5-7 more years is a realistic estimate for the rest of his lifespan either way. We're trying to get him to lose weight, he's only a few pounds off, but I definitely see that with my partner and her mom where they project their relationship with food on to the dog. No he doesn't need 3 meals everyday and if he isn't eating why the gently caress are you shoving it in his face? He doesn't need to eat, you need him to eat. They give him treats of big size because that's what they think a reward is. My MIL gives him straight people food despite numerous demands for her to loving stop, and she's finally starting to listen. My parents are similar. My mom is a juggernaut that'll build a fence by herself, my dad just watches 2 minutes hate on Fox and plays Call of Duty campaigns over and over, and doesn't remember playing a few of them despite there being no way he could have possibly ignored them and that I was there when he played it.
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Jan 11, 2024 00:03
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skooma512 posted:My dog's been having some hip issues at ~8 years old and I can't help but think this is the beginning of the end. He just moves slower for the moment, but all I can think about is how this is just going to get progressively worse and that get better is not an option. Week 3 since he tweaked something and we noticed altered mobility, the vet said it was a back issue and to let him rest, but he still sprints after balls and jumps up and down on couchs and beds regardless. To be fair, our dog developed something around that age and she recently passed at like 17 after a decade of trotting at moderate speed around the yard instead of running. A lot of these things can be arrested rather than progressed, I don't want to set you up for a fall, but also don't give up hope yet. Also yeah getting the dogs diet under control will help loads.
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Jan 11, 2024 04:32
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skooma, i hope your dog recovers and has a long and happy life. as ron said, they're tough little creatures, and they know when something is hurting them and can be surprisingly good at managing their own problems. and he has a loving, dedicated owner, which is worth more than gold.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:11
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my dog is currently my biggest source of emotional support, because my family are useless and my friends fit into four categories that make them emotionally unavailable: a) works 60-80 hours a week b) whole family in active war zone c) good vibes only! (they are always allowed to complain about their problems, but anybody else doing so gets "let's talk about something more cheerful!" and if they don't, that's the end of the conversation) and, the most annoying: d) the problem solvers! any emotion gets hammered down with "advice" that is usually not applicable and impossible to implement. recently i had a problem that nobody could solve - someone died - and all my problem solver friends totally ghosted me for a month until they were certain i was done grieving and then came back acting like nothing had happened. humans e: thinking about this further, i just realised almost all my emotionally intelligent and compassionate friends fit into category a, because nowadays empathic people feel obligated to take on careers in caregiving that then work them into the ground an egg has issued a correction as of 23:36 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 23:24
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an egg posted:
I gave up on these people in my life. I'm not sure what else you're supposed to do. It's clear that they didn't respect me as a human being; I was like emotional Kleenex for them. I could see how over time in our relationship, by never properly asserting myself, I came to occupy some kind of subordinate role, from their perspective. I was there to make them feel good, in one way or another, and if I wasn't doing that, they had no use for me. They definitely didn't like it when I started to ask to not be treated like dogshit; that was met with "wow you don't like it when I make fun of you in front of everybody? That sounds like a you problem bro."
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Jan 13, 2024 23:38
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Karach posted:I gave up on these people in my life. I'm not sure what else you're supposed to do. your examples sound like assholes. mine don't treat me like poo poo, they're very loving and honestly delightful when everything is going well, but negative emotions seem to terrify them to a ridiculous degree. especially as i don't show much emotion in front of other people, it's not like they had to worry about me going into hysterics, i would have been happy with a "oh, sorry to hear" rather than... whatever that was. an egg has issued a correction as of 23:52 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 23:41
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an egg posted:one of my good-vibes-only friends asked me if my dad was feeling better, i said "unfortunately he passed away a few days ago" and she no poo poo looked at me blankly for two seconds and then started talking about something totally unrelated and never mentioned it again lol. a week later she was present when someone else asked me the same question, and she did it again. That sucks dude. I think they don't see us as people with feelings. It's sort of mildly paralyzing for them to have to actually contemplate our humanity. It really became apparent as I did therapy etc. that I'd surrounded myself with lots of copies of that sort of person. Fair weather friends. Most of my relationships were busted like that, because my family life was busted; busted felt normal to me. You're supposed to be constantly wondering if somebody you've known since childhood actually likes you or not, right? I guess I for my part couldn't offer much earnest emotional support to other people, because I was so messed up, so I tended to attract people likewise incapable. Now I'm a grown rear end man and realize making friends with a decent person is really hard.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:52
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IMO, to paraphrase someone else, to work on your limitations with emotional engagement with others you have to: 1. set some of yourself aside 2. want to be in the situation in which the other person is centered 3. not view it as transactional 4. being open and not trying to force things to suit what makes you comfortable Those things are basically completely devalued by our society. I think that most people rightly know on some level that it is uncharted territory for them, and that a lot of the selfishness involved is a defense mechanism against revealing stunted parts of themselves, a part of themselves exposed by a genuine interaction getting hurt, or losing control of their emotions. And fear of rejection, hurting someone by being incapable etc. nice obelisk idiot has issued a correction as of 00:20 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 00:07
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nice obelisk idiot posted:IMO, to paraphrase someone else, to work on your limitations with emotional engagement with others you have to: good post. I think I struggled before with #1 - I didn't had any sense of boundaries, where I ended and someone else began. It would have been impossible to set myself aside in the way needed to form a healthy relationship. And yeah, on some level I also had the sense that I was hanging out with people who had fully internalized social atomization. Being anything other than sarcastic and disengaged would have been almost impossible for them, unless they were eased very gently into it, something I didn't have the capacity for at the time.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:22
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dad's death really shone a light onto all the relationships in my life. i feel it was his last gift to me because it showed me who i could trust to have my back emotionally when things are really bad. the answer to that being "no one", but even that was kind of a relief - i already sensed it subconsciously and had a lot of chronic grinding anxiety over it, but because people kept assuring me they were there for me, i doubted my intuition. now i realise my intuition was better than i thought it was. this is where having a therapist helps. my upbringing was so dysfunctional that i would have assumed that this lack of support was normal and i was the bad one for having any expectations at all, or that i'd done something wrong in the way i reached out or reacted, but my therapist listened to my account of all the family and friends i interacted with in the days after the death and then solemnly told me "you live in a madhouse." i agree it's important to have empathy for the other person in this situation and to recognise we're all living in a hosed up society where nobody is taught how to respond to emotions, their own or others'. if i cut everybody out of my life who didn't give me what i needed at this particular point in time, there'd be nobody left and i would have hurt a lot of people who honestly are also victims of their circumstances. the question is how to move forward and form genuine relationships, recognizing that it's a symptom of our times that many people's ability to form relationships is warped from a very early age. to adjust to that problem, you first have to recognize it exists.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:49
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which brings me back to the only people we can trust: dogs.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:52
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Karach posted:Now I'm a grown rear end man and realize making friends with a decent person is really hard. It's very hard, and I'm incredibly lucky that one of my childhood friends ended up being so great. All I have is him and one other friend who is a good guy but not the type who I'd generally choose to talk about serious things with. Once my parents pass away (which won't be super long, since they're 75/73) I'd basically have no significant human connections left if not for him. And I honestly don't know how you'd even begin to form them as an adult my age. I think it's easier for people who are more....uh, normal? Like if you were a religious person in the South, that instantly gives you a zillion people to connect with. But I have very little in common with roughly 99.5% of people. Even my youth memories don't correspond to most other peoples' since I didn't listen to "normal" music and watched poo poo like 90s/00s Japanese live-action dramas as a teenager.
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Jan 14, 2024 02:44
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Now in Russia, they got it all mapped out so everyone pulls for everyone else. That's the theory, anyway. But what I know about is Texas, and down here- you're on your own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj2PUR1QZ74 nice obelisk idiot posted:I think that most people rightly know on some level that it is uncharted territory for them, and that a lot of the selfishness involved is a defense mechanism against revealing stunted parts of themselves, a part of themselves exposed by a genuine interaction getting hurt, or losing control of their emotions. And fear of rejection, hurting someone by being incapable etc. This is all good discussion, and this is helpful for me to think about trying to overcome that barrier in the first place. Like, I want to be better at engaging with people but starting anything new is scary, much less something that personal. Hell I'm getting back into hobbyist coding and i've spent half a day second guessing how I'm going to start something
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Jan 14, 2024 14:02
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Ytlaya posted:It's very hard, and I'm incredibly lucky that one of my childhood friends ended up being so great. All I have is him and one other friend who is a good guy but not the type who I'd generally choose to talk about serious things with. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I keep wandering around thinking that there must be some weirdo like me somewhere in a 250 km radius around my home, but I've never met them. Then again, if they're like me they've gone to great lengths to conceal their weirdness so they can get through the day with minimal friction.
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Jan 14, 2024 14:04
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i'm so sorry egg. animals are absolutely more perceptive and helpful of other beings in distress than the distancing thing people do when unable to process unpleasant feelings. but also i'm not sure where people are even supposed to learn how to care for others emotions anymore? i can't think of any public figure real or fiction that's ever had any positive moral influence in my lifetime. maybe kermit or big bird? every character in tv/movies is a sarcastic unaffected coolguy and political/religious leaders are all experts at rules lawyering their way out of any type of responsibility for loss. when i was in school my friends spoke mostly in movie quotes and it was so annoying, no thoughts just repeating stuff we heard. even tv nature documentaries are full of pretend adventure narratives w happy endings. people are good at chatting about news trivia they can have an easy +/- opinion on like everything is sports but any emotion besides happiness is embarrassing and to be hidden away. maybe its tv brain, the expectation that no matter what awkward situation you get into everything will get wrapped up and reset after 30/60 minutes. i kinda blame western language. separating man from nature and setting it up like some battle to be won. and then we did win! agriculture and industrial food production all hid away the unfun and gross parts of life but also the rewarding activities of identifying safe food to collect, hunting, and growing plants. just pay a guy (company) to do it for you. no stress that the fruit trees are having an unproductive season. no exhaustion or fear of failure/injury from chasing a quadriped through the forest and no sadness/respect memory of killing cooking eating making anything useful from its life form. as long as you get that money you can go to the store and grab some bags of nicely shaped food items no emotions necessary. only having time to work at jobs and not having to see many of the less pleasant parts of sustaining everyday life makes us less capable of understanding our/others feelings when really bad poo poo happens. it seems like so much of the world is hidden unless you actively seek to spend time observing behavior of plants and animals irl or some livestream of a river or birds nest. anyways doubt any of that rambling is helpful at all i hope your friends improve it sounds like you have the right level of expectation from other people, i got some clouds to go yell at
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Jan 14, 2024 16:18
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Karach posted:Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I keep wandering around thinking that there must be some weirdo like me somewhere in a 250 km radius around my home, but I've never met them. Then again, if they're like me they've gone to great lengths to conceal their weirdness so they can get through the day with minimal friction. lol yeah that's why posting is cool
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Jan 14, 2024 16:20
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Charlatan Eschaton posted:lol yeah that's why posting is cool  thinking this more and more
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Jan 14, 2024 16:38
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Karach posted:Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I keep wandering around thinking that there must be some weirdo like me somewhere in a 250 km radius around my home, but I've never met them. Then again, if they're like me they've gone to great lengths to conceal their weirdness so they can get through the day with minimal friction. Side note I've always found it funny that "incel" was coined by a lesbian in rural Canada who didn't like the the math on population density around her
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Jan 14, 2024 16:59
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