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Australia but less deadly monsters.
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Jan 13, 2024 09:29
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Swilo posted:it's not apartheid it's a penal colony full of convicts, and it's all machine translated past chapter 3 so complicated dialogue may not even be even accurate I feel like it stops being "full of convicts" when you have multiple generations, unless the children somehow inherit convict-ness from their parents.
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Jan 13, 2024 10:08
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Started looking into Parallel World Pharmacy since there was a drop of some new chapters and it led me to remembering that it's apparently part of some kind of multi series thing and now I'm the authors page and it's the fourth out five.
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Jan 13, 2024 10:20
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doomrider7 posted:Started looking into Parallel World Pharmacy since there was a drop of some new chapters and it led me to remembering that it's apparently part of some kind of multi series thing and now I'm the authors page and it's the fourth out five. ??? https://www.novelupdates.com/nauthor/takayama-liz/ Am I missing something?
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Jan 13, 2024 11:26
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Ytlaya posted:Edit: And this same protagonist explicitly acknowledges that she was born into good fortune (as a noble) and hasn't earned or deserved her wealth and influence. But...she still thinks she has the right to decide whether the people of this village are kept imprisoned? Why does she think she (and the kingdom's nobility/royalty in general) have the right to decide things for this village? It directly contradicts her own arguments! It's sort of an unquestioned premise of an awful lot of anime that Rich People are, in fact, just better than everyone else. Like, not just limited to fantasy stories; how often have you seen a high school anime where the student council president is the smartest, most athletic, and also richest person in school? The richest of the richest are often portrayed literally like nobility, so it's no surprise a story about actual nobility would treat them the same. Maybe you could call it a libertarian thing where wealth naturally flows to the most worthy, but given how often this involves generational wealth it honestly feels like they're just buying into the idea of "good breeding" where the nobility or pseudo-nobility are just genetically superior to the peasants. Clarste fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 12:35
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To be fair, manga/anime isn't alone in that. It's pretty common everywhere. It's not even noticeably more common in manga/anime than anywhere else, if you look at the culture (artistic, not Japanese) as a whole and not just the fantasy genre subsection.
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Jan 13, 2024 14:22
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In my experience the assumption that rich people are just better than you is even worse in Korean comics. Manga will have some criticism of the upper class but in tons of Korean comics the elites are just better than you and you have to work to deserve being near them
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Jan 13, 2024 15:47
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Clarste posted:It's sort of an unquestioned premise of an awful lot of anime that Rich People are, in fact, just better than everyone else. Like, not just limited to fantasy stories; how often have you seen a high school anime where the student council president is the smartest, most athletic, and also richest person in school? The richest of the richest are often portrayed literally like nobility, so it's no surprise a story about actual nobility would treat them the same. Maybe you could call it a libertarian thing where wealth naturally flows to the most worthy, but given how often this involves generational wealth it honestly feels like they're just buying into the idea of "good breeding" where the nobility or pseudo-nobility are just genetically superior to the peasants. 
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Jan 13, 2024 15:47
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Spookydonut posted:??? It's from the authors WN page. http://mypage.syosetu.com/65394/ Clarste posted:It's sort of an unquestioned premise of an awful lot of anime that Rich People are, in fact, just better than everyone else. Like, not just limited to fantasy stories; how often have you seen a high school anime where the student council president is the smartest, most athletic, and also richest person in school? The richest of the richest are often portrayed literally like nobility, so it's no surprise a story about actual nobility would treat them the same. Maybe you could call it a libertarian thing where wealth naturally flows to the most worthy, but given how often this involves generational wealth it honestly feels like they're just buying into the idea of "good breeding" where the nobility or pseudo-nobility are just genetically superior to the peasants. To be fair it's like thetoughestbean said in that sometimes there is criticism or at least some instances where that's not always the case. Like we equally see someone who's at the top of their class or somethingn to that effect either being poor or at very least middle-class yet be viewed as near paragons of hard work and discipline. Some of the ones I've read that portray the nobility as good if not necessarily better at least have the sense to make legitimately good at their jobs of running their territories and care for their constituents. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 16:29
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Maybe it's just the series I've picked to stick with (and is part of why I picked them) but I do seem to see "nobility/the rich are/can be venal assholes" a lot. When there are "good" rich people, it's usually that the protagonist's family is one of the few good ones and/or the wealth is just a platform for hijinks and shouldn't be taken any more seriously as a sociopolitical treatise than Beverly Hills Teens. Again, though, that's probably because I'm quick to drop series that don't click with me.
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Jan 13, 2024 17:40
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^^^ The most common angle can best be summed up as a sort of support for "noblesse oblige." The nobility are still treated as inherently better by default, but sometimes there are Bad Apples who tar the name of other nobility and don't deserve their status (and even then, they're often still better looking, etc, than their commoner counterparts). But generally I don't care about this sort of thing, since (as you say) it's basically like a teen drama set in Beverly Hills or something. The only reason it bugged me in the series I was commenting on is that the series in question takes it upon itself to "get political" about the topic. Clarste posted:It's sort of an unquestioned premise of an awful lot of anime that Rich People are, in fact, just better than everyone else. Like, not just limited to fantasy stories; how often have you seen a high school anime where the student council president is the smartest, most athletic, and also richest person in school? The richest of the richest are often portrayed literally like nobility, so it's no surprise a story about actual nobility would treat them the same. Maybe you could call it a libertarian thing where wealth naturally flows to the most worthy, but given how often this involves generational wealth it honestly feels like they're just buying into the idea of "good breeding" where the nobility or pseudo-nobility are just genetically superior to the peasants. That's the thing though - in this specific series, they actually do have the protagonist directly argue against the existence of the nobility. She directly argues to the king at one point that there's nothing inherently better about the nobility. So there's a conflict between different parts of the "text," while in most other similar series the premise is (as you say) unquestioned. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 20:14
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it's better when they don't even question the role and privileges of the nobility. after all, noble ladies are the ones going to fancy parties in fancy dresses. noble men are the clean cut hot guys with swords. delving into what aristocracy actually entails is just going to make you hate most of the cast.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:50
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Ytlaya posted:^^^ The most common angle can best be summed up as a sort of support for "noblesse oblige." The nobility are still treated as inherently better by default, but sometimes there are Bad Apples who tar the name of other nobility and don't deserve their status (and even then, they're often still better looking, etc, than their commoner counterparts). I'm not sure that's more common than "nobility are all/mostly/frequently corrupt assholes, typically fat or weaselly looking with stupid moustaches and a tendency to bluster impotently as the protag shows them up." The "better looking" part to an extent can make sense, as they'll have had better access to nutrition, hygiene, cosmetics, chances to physically train for aesthetics rather than workplace utility, etc.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:12
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Paracelsus posted:I'm not sure that's more common than "nobility are all/mostly/frequently corrupt assholes, typically fat or weaselly looking with stupid moustaches and a tendency to bluster impotently as the protag shows them up." Someone posted about Beverly Hills being an apt comparison to the same actions and people; any influential group will have the same things going on.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:26
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I mean, there are certainly bad nobility in these stories, but they're almost always contrasted with the "good" nobility who are not-coincidentally also more attractive. It's sort of like the exception that proves the rule: "this guy doesn't deserve his privilege, but these other people totally do."
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Jan 13, 2024 21:37
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Batman kicking Ra's Al Ghul 7 stories down an elevator shaft to stop his plan to drop the population by 83%
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Jan 13, 2024 21:54
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Paracelsus posted:I'm not sure that's more common than "nobility are all/mostly/frequently corrupt assholes, typically fat or weaselly looking with stupid moustaches and a tendency to bluster impotently as the protag shows them up." It depends on the genre. For shoujo-related stuff, nobility are almost always better looking, etc. For shounen it depends on the type of story and the protagonist's role.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:22
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doomrider7 posted:It's from the authors WN page. I can't see how it fits with the themes of the other 4
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Jan 14, 2024 02:33
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Authors can have any number of inherent biases, and maybe it's down to the skill of the author in conveying their intentions (or hiding their chudlier proclivities), but I'd bet that more often than not, the presence of good wealthy people vs. bad wealthy people is a benign "well there are good and bad nobles, same as the rest of us", which all things told is probably fairly well-intentioned, even if it's really superficial. Asking people to do a deep dive into the origins of obscene wealth through a Marxist lens is maybe a bit much to ask from authors who frankly want to tell a different sort of story. So again, they're sort of unexamined trappings for adventures that require lush ballrooms, balconies, private schools, etc. all as part of the genre conventions. One of the few isekais I've stuck with is One Within the Villainess, which may possibly get the closest to being genuinely disruptive (and challenging) to that sort of system. Even though the precipitating event was magical hijinks, it made her realize that the whole system is rotten and she's tearing it down with a Soviet-style collective populated by low-class societal outcasts who get to live up to their potential, and the profits from her machinations are socialized to their benefit. Even their identical uniforms are very Soviet (with a bit of Russian peasantry in it). And it's completely hysterical that she's not even doing it out of ideology, it's just purely out of spite. Like, "gently caress you all, I will improve everyone's lives just to show you I'm best!" (I do think/hope it will end up being one of those cases where "the mask becomes the reality" with respect to doing good, and I am an absolute sucker for that sort of thing, so that's why this one has me hooked.) usenet celeb 1992 fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 02:36
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Spookydonut posted:I can't see how it fits with the themes of the other 4 It's apparently an interconnected multiverse. One of the recent chapters REALLY hints at some weird poo poo going on(also based on the LN's pictures). Like, legit makes you question what IS going on with the nature of Falma and his powers. It got hinted at in some of the convo's Falma has with the priest guy as well as a convo he had with the Empress during the obligatory "Hot Springs Episode". doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 02:42
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:Authors can have any number of inherent biases, and maybe it's down to the skill of the author in conveying their intentions (or hiding their chudlier proclivities), but I'd bet that more often than not, the presence of good wealthy people vs. bad wealthy people is a benign "well there are good and bad nobles, same as the rest of us", which all things told is probably fairly well-intentioned, even if it's really superficial. Asking people to do a deep dive into the origins of obscene wealth through a Marxist lens is maybe a bit much to ask from authors who frankly want to tell a different sort of story. So again, they're sort of unexamined trappings for adventures that require lush ballrooms, balconies, private schools, etc. all as part of the genre conventions. Yeah I read further ahead in The One Within the Villainess. I don't think it's challenging or disrupting that sort of system since she doesn't really seem to care about the system or it's issues beyond how its affected her and how she can exploit it. It was also one of the ones along with Dad's a Hero, Mom is the Queen of the Spirits, and I'm a Reincarnator about the whole the fates of those who oppose the MC. (Spoilers for both) The other Reincarnator in the body of the heroine gets exposed as well as have it shown that she was having illicit sexual affairs with some nobility to garner "favors". Her punishment is imprisonment and labor where it's implied she's also forced to perform sexual favors for others as well as having her face horribly scarred. The other has a character introduced as the commoner lover of the Hero's brother and it's implied her daughter is the brothers child(or if not, that he still loves her as such). She becomes somewhat infatuated with the Hero and on her wedding when they sign a love pact in front of the altar of the goddesses, the pen snaps and she has some light brandings of thorns on her wrist to sign infidelity. The MC saves it by causing a rain of gems to distract from that as a sign of the goddesses approval. This wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the fact that it's explained that small infatuations like hers are common and nothing the goddesses mind or take note of, but here they did because it's the married to their sister and they wanted to intentionally spite her. Later on when she appears again her character is retconned into being a slovenly lazy and abusive drunk to her daughter for not being as amazing as the MC and obsessed with the hero as well as having had numerous affairs WHILE she was seeing the brother as well as after. She tries to orchestrate the MC's kidnapping as well as some other things that result in her being punished by thorn brandings covering her entire body. Both of these bothered me because they just veered unpleasantly into the same direction as the punishment of Princess Malty from Shield Hero and it left a bad taste.
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Jan 14, 2024 03:47
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thetoughestbean posted:In my experience the assumption that rich people are just better than you is even worse in Korean comics. Manga will have some criticism of the upper class but in tons of Korean comics the elites are just better than you and you have to work to deserve being near them Yeah I've noticed that a lot in the Korean ones, Chinese ones kind of do that too to some degree.
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Jan 14, 2024 04:01
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Its kind of worldwide, like the rich DO have status, even if the 'poors' don't want to admit it. Not that they're better, but they're definitely in a 'higher social class' Korea/China webtoons just bring it more to the surface, especially when the motivation of the MCs in this story is that he's poor and has to save up money to pay for his Mom/little sister/dad's surgery or sibling college funds. And getting connections with the higher ups is key to that.
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Jan 14, 2024 05:59
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I don't really have a fully sketched out thought on this but I feel like there's a chance might you're slightly over examining a manga/manwha if things like 'People haven't already made the Sukiya menu by now' or 'the rich are treated better' gives you the heebie jeebies. It's not like we're not doing that ourselves with all the hostile architecture being done about the unhoused. (In the U.S. at least, I have absolutely no idea how the rest of the world is dealing with their own) I'm not really sure what to make of it, I feel like it used to be a pretty common trope/cliche to have a spoiled kid/teenager/rival for the less well off main character to appear better than because they're not a spoiled brat? Like, Veruca Salt in (at least) the Gene Wilder Willy Wonka movie vs Charlie Bucket, Jack Horner is basically the same thing in the last Puss in Boots movie, probably happens a few times in Gundam over the years.
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Jan 14, 2024 07:48
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Easy storytelling. Not good or bad, just easy. Slobs and snobs, greasers and preppies, upstairs downstairs, princes and paupers, etc. Found this one in early days; main character has the same idea of villainy as Katarina or Bertia, but acts more, eh, intentionally manipulative? Leans into comedy so monkey's paw rules are in play. Probably didn't need the reincarnation angle. Also his name could be (mis)read as Ogre Ferret, so there's that.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:45
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Lock Knight posted:Easy storytelling. Not good or bad, just easy. Slobs and snobs, greasers and preppies, upstairs downstairs, princes and paupers, etc. Just looking at the description, it sounds very similar to the story where the guy reincarnates as some kind of space noble but all his lovely villainous plans end up being seen as positive since they're downright compassionate compared to the other terrible nobles.
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Jan 14, 2024 19:43
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Nemo2342 posted:Just looking at the description, it sounds very similar to the story where the guy reincarnates as some kind of space noble but all his lovely villainous plans end up being seen as positive since they're downright compassionate compared to the other terrible nobles. Evil Lord of an Intergalactic Empire?
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Jan 14, 2024 20:05
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Paracelsus posted:Evil Lord of an Intergalactic Empire? That's the one! I remember binging the WN several years ago though it was definitely wearing out its concept rapidly.
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Jan 14, 2024 20:21
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Nemo2342 posted:Just looking at the description, it sounds very similar to the story where the guy reincarnates as some kind of space noble but all his lovely villainous plans end up being seen as positive since they're downright compassionate compared to the other terrible nobles. Princess Tearmoon ends up being seen as a genius saint because she's so afraid of thr guillotine that she accidentally puts together an international coalition to solve world hunger Tunicate fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 21:10
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Tunicate posted:Princess Tearmoon ends up being seen as a genius saint because she's so afraid of thr guillotine that she accidentally puts together an international coalition to solve world hunger Sure, but that one is definitely a different vibe. She goes back and forth between "I will do this objectively good thing because it will keep people from executing me in the future" and "I will do this petty thing to spite my future enemy, which accidentally ends up being a good thing" while having some genuine affection for the people who are close to her. Intergalactic Empire was 100% "I will do this selfish thing because I want to be a jerk, wait why is everyone happy about this?".
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Jan 14, 2024 21:40
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Don't forget Modern Villainess who has the immortal line quote:All the roads in the gated community counted as private land, so if any African-Americans or Hispanics tried to enter, I could have them arrested for trespassing, or for trying to enter without a resident permit.
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Jan 14, 2024 22:24
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So it's an accurate depiction of the kind of American who lives in a gated community?
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Jan 14, 2024 22:28
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Seraphic Neoman posted:Don't forget Modern Villainess who has the immortal line what the gently caress
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Jan 14, 2024 22:45
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Elfface posted:So it's an accurate depiction of the kind of American who lives in a gated community? having recently returned to America can confirm that it feels exactly like getting isekai'd into a wasteland
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Jan 14, 2024 22:52
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Elfface posted:So it's an accurate depiction of the kind of American who lives in a gated community? Or South African. Especially South Africa. Americans would jizz themselves if they found out you can just kill a dude for trying to hijack another guy's car on the open road. Edit: you don't have to be law enforcement to enforce your justice 
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Jan 14, 2024 23:08
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It would be a shorter list to name the states that it would be illegal to shoot a car jacker.
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Jan 14, 2024 23:10
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Guyver posted:It would be a shorter list to name the states that it would be illegal to shoot a car jacker. poo poo. How many states allow you to install anti-theft defenses to cars such as flamethrowers ? 
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Jan 14, 2024 23:47
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Technically none because they don't meet automotive safety standards and would thus not be Street Legal.
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Jan 14, 2024 23:53
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Kwyndig posted:Technically none because they don't meet automotive safety standards and would thus not be Street Legal. Except in South Africa. Which is where that flamethrower build originated
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Jan 15, 2024 00:51
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CommieGIR posted:Except in South Africa. Homeowner: "We are asking for permission to install an electric fence underneath our roof tiles since thieves keep easily breaking into homes by just removing the tiles. We want to run enough current through the fence to instantly knock a human unconscious" US City Council-  Cape Town City Council- 
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Jan 15, 2024 21:44
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