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Popete posted:https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2022 Star Citizen is a front for money laundering
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Jan 15, 2024 21:25
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Fidelitious posted:There's absolutely no way that they have any idea where they'll be in 2 years. They can't even plan a few months ahead. Apparently, they spend the first month of every year doing just planning and they say they are going to have a public roadmap for 2024 in February. Citizens are apparently saying this is fine because this is how agile development works. And I mean, I would have to agree that it is how agile development works in that what they are doing isn't really agile development because scrum is a farce and no company can use it correctly. Creating a new waterfall every Q1 and then floundering it and having to redo it next Q1 isn't agile, sorry. Scrum-butt strikes again.
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Jan 15, 2024 23:15
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Having played 9 for 12 years now I have seen hundreds of scrum butts and I think they would be a significant improvement over whatever star citizen is trying to be e: but speaking of games that emerged from an Englishman’s fever dream and are full of game-breaking bugs, rugby has been in development for 200 years and they still release major patches (ie game law updates) every single year
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Jan 16, 2024 00:25
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https://i.imgur.com/se7Jd2r.mp4
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Jan 16, 2024 01:54
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Cutedge posted:Apparently, they spend the first month of every year doing just planning and they say they are going to have a public roadmap for 2024 in February. Citizens are apparently saying this is fine because this is how agile development works. And I mean, I would have to agree that it is how agile development works in that what they are doing isn't really agile development because scrum is a farce and no company can use it correctly. Creating a new waterfall every Q1 and then floundering it and having to redo it next Q1 isn't agile, sorry. Scrum-butt strikes again. I literally have no idea how agile or scrum or <insert latest buzzword here> are supposed to work. Literally everyone I've ever talked to about it just says their company isn't doing it right. At this point it's easier to assume you can translate anything as "constantly fluctuating requirements and random micromanagement". So, on this front, isn't CIG doing it right?
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Jan 16, 2024 05:43
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https://twitter.com/SpaceTomatoGG/status/1746241909864153399
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Jan 16, 2024 05:45
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waht is the experience is that the newest CIG created tech buzzword
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Jan 16, 2024 05:51
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drat bad actors!
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Jan 16, 2024 05:53
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Which one of you was the bad actor?
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Jan 16, 2024 05:54
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Sandi
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Jan 16, 2024 05:55
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Blue On Blue posted:waht is the experience https://twitter.com/SpaceTomatoGG/status/1746262285071552697
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Jan 16, 2024 06:37
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Apparently private security wasn't doing it's job.
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Jan 16, 2024 06:41
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What's ATC?
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Jan 16, 2024 06:42
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Lammasu posted:What's ATC? Probably air traffic control but it’s in space so 
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Jan 16, 2024 06:52
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The event didn't even start but it was amazing.
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Jan 16, 2024 07:47
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MarcusSA posted:drat bad actors! Bad Actors? In my video game? It’s more likely than you think!
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Jan 16, 2024 08:28
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Blue On Blue posted:waht is the experience 
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Jan 16, 2024 08:34
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All those decades of naval architects building ram bows into their battleships to no effect, not realizing that the true application of ramming in warfare would be found where they never expected. Lissa >> Iquique >> […] >> The Experience why yes I have been home from work sick and spending all my time reading Wikipedia articles about naval history why do you ask
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Jan 16, 2024 12:50
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Apollodorus posted:why yes I have been home from work sick and spending all my time reading Wikipedia articles about naval history why do you ask Don’t be ashamed. Naval warfare is like my Roman Empire. Except I also think about the Roman Empire.
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Jan 16, 2024 13:17
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Mailer posted:I literally have no idea how agile or scrum or <insert latest buzzword here> are supposed to work. Literally everyone I've ever talked to about it just says their company isn't doing it right. At this point it's easier to assume you can translate anything as "constantly fluctuating requirements and random micromanagement". So, on this front, isn't CIG doing it right? I'd actually tend to agree. They're doing it more wrong than most people but it's not uniquely wrong. I don't actually know if we're self-describing as 'agile' anymore but we plan a quarter at a time with some vaguely agile philosophy driving that planning. We also have a (digital) kanban board which is used completely incorrectly as well and has basically zero to do with the actual kanban methodology beyond the fact that it is cards on a board. To be honest, I think I prefer this to being bogged down in rigid process. It's probably more of an issue for product managers.
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Jan 16, 2024 15:08
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Mailer posted:I literally have no idea how agile or scrum or <insert latest buzzword here> are supposed to work. Literally everyone I've ever talked to about it just says their company isn't doing it right. At this point it's easier to assume you can translate anything as "constantly fluctuating requirements and random micromanagement". So, on this front, isn't CIG doing it right? I think it's another child of the pseudo-industry built around telling people "how" to work, instead of just doing work. And then giving the process a name. There are seminars all the time pushing this buzzword or that, who offer nothing more than applying a label to processes that many people were already doing because it made sense. It has the added benefit of being able to tell you you're doing "agile wrong" even if what you're doing has been awesome and worked out great. I really have to figure out how to break into that industry. Lots of them made up named diets, which resulted in endless wars between people who used to get along, as they discuss whether or not their particular dietary choice is "true buzzword."
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Jan 16, 2024 17:36
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Apollodorus posted:
I'm home sick in bed and, brain fog permitting, you've given me an idea
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Jan 16, 2024 17:57
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I think there's a problem that the "right way" of doing scrum isn't really compatible with real world work and the reasons it's not compatible with real world work are incidentally the issues that plague Star Citizen in general. Scrum's "dream": * product owner says "I want thing X" * project manager goes to team and says "owner wants x, how can we do this and how much time" * team determines needs and requirements, reports to project manager * project manager negotiates with product owner on needs, gives time estimate * product owner says ok * project manager and team break work into sprints, team commits to work that they can do in sprint on sprint by sprint basis * tasks in sprint are estimated * project manager gives product owner updates Scrum in real life: * product owner says "I want thing X in {timeframe}" * project manager goes to team, goes into planning meetings to determine needs * product owner sits in meetings * team says "we need Y time" * product owner says "you have Y-Z time" * team has to accept * project manager and team break work into sprints, have to overcommit for time reasons * team gets chastised on time estimates, told that it shouldn't take as much time * product owner sits in daily scrums, flips out if a single task takes longer than estimated time s/product owner/chris roberts/r edit: Then again, in Star Citizen's case I guess it's less about time and more about Chris Roberts constantly changing the plan. But it's still an insane amount of micromanagement Fidelitious posted:I'd actually tend to agree. They're doing it more wrong than most people but it's not uniquely wrong. I don't actually know if we're self-describing as 'agile' anymore but we plan a quarter at a time with some vaguely agile philosophy driving that planning. Agreed completely. The problem is that the Citizens think that what CIG is doing is a masterful "Agile Process" and that oh this is the way that companies have to work. My argument is that what CIG is doing doesn't work, because they are a decade past their deliverable date. 
Cutedge fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 16, 2024 |
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Jan 16, 2024 18:01
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Lord Stimperor posted:I'm home sick in bed and, brain fog permitting, you've given me an idea Is it the worst kind of sickness?
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Jan 16, 2024 18:02
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C-Bangin' it 
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Cutedge posted:I think there's a problem that the "right way" of doing scrum isn't really compatible with real world work and the reasons it's not compatible with real world work are incidentally the issues that plague Star Citizen in general. I don't care what methodology one chooses...waterfall/agile/etc. The failure becomes that people overestimate their productivity...maybe to appear to "look good" in the eyes of management. Survival instinct of sorts and a cultural fail of corps in practice. Double or triple any estimate anyone gives you as a starting point to judge how long something will take and start from there.
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Jan 16, 2024 18:07
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I mean there may be a workflow problem but if the product owner wants you to change a feature or a coat of paint or constantly shift priorities than there isn't a development management plan in the world that can save it. It's just funny that Citizens say "oh they have to do a month of planning at the start of every year, that's how Agile works".
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Jan 16, 2024 18:10
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To take out a page out of CIGs playbook software development is genuinely difficult to estimate (ok maybe not off by 8 years lol). So when a manager asks "how long to do X?" it's usually at best an educated guess if it is anything more complicated than a bug fix you already pretty much know how to do. So you get PMs trying to write out a full development timeline captured in a schedule based off asking a bunch of engineers how long a pile of tasks will take to complete, many of the tasks interdependent and any delays pushes the entire schedule back. Many times you have no idea how some distant scheduled task will be completed until you get closer to implementing it so it's truly is a guess how long it will take. It's an issue that trying to predict a software schedule in advance is to a degree a fool's errand. If developers knew how long a task would take that would mean they already know how to do said task but that is rarely the case until you sit down and actually start implementing it and of course there are always gotcha's along the way even if you have a pretty good idea.
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Jan 16, 2024 18:18
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Every couple of years our company also tries to introduce agile (again)... our projects are all governed by hard deadlines from external customers, so this goes usually as described above. Maybe we are just lacking the right agile coach: https://youtu.be/bB340S0tGf8?si=-8z7UwN4kMLaVM3j
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Jan 16, 2024 18:51
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Cutedge posted:* product owner sits in daily scrums, flips out if a single task takes longer than estimated time lol, so much truth in just one line
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Jan 16, 2024 19:06
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Who would name something scrum? It sounds like the orc lacky to an evil wizard in a DnD campaign.
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Jan 16, 2024 19:08
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It's an actual word, from rugby and more general British use, about basically a messy group, usually with some kind of purpose. Like in rugby it's when both teams are trying to claim the ball. So it's like saying that work goes on in a messy situation but a result arises that can be made sense of, and then corpo buzzword idiots try to systematize it. Or get paid to pretend to.
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Jan 16, 2024 19:16
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The spirit of Arvel Crynyd lives on. Never Not Ram.
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Jan 16, 2024 20:00
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:The event didn't even start but it was amazing. This whole thing is reminding me of circa 2013-2014 when RSI/CIG's twitter (can't remember which) would tweet out alerts about alien invasions or pirate attacks in sectors that didn't exist in the game (and of course the aliens/pirates didn't exist either), then later tweet that the situation had been successfully resolved, with the usual Star Citizens tweeting their praise and support. Support and praise for a non-event that couldn't have happened in-game, didn't happen in game, and had no visual representation at all outside of some tweets.
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Jan 16, 2024 20:15
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Angry_Ed posted:This whole thing is reminding me of circa 2013-2014 when RSI/CIG's twitter (can't remember which) would tweet out alerts about alien invasions or pirate attacks in sectors that didn't exist in the game (and of course the aliens/pirates didn't exist either), then later tweet that the situation had been successfully resolved, with the usual Star Citizens tweeting their praise and support. Support and praise for a non-event that couldn't have happened in-game, didn't happen in game, and had no visual representation at all outside of some tweets. That is peak CIG. I remember when I first started really looking into Star Citizen I was very confused because their website and how people talked about the ships it sounded like it was actually a game you could play, pretty sure at the time it was just the hangar module.
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Jan 16, 2024 20:32
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Guy replied saying his org one shot torpedoed the luxury yacht, which tells me he was the hero, not a bad actor
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Jan 16, 2024 20:33
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Scrum is a character from Pirates of the Caribbean 4 and 5 and I will not hear otherwise.
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Jan 16, 2024 20:36
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JugbandDude posted:Guy replied saying his org one shot torpedoed the luxury yacht, which tells me he was the hero, not a bad actor That's how babies are made and dreams are destroyed.
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Jan 16, 2024 20:44
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MarcusSA posted:Probably air traffic control but it’s in space so Elite has some basic traffic control on its stations, so it's feasible. Dunno if Star Citizen has any sort implemented yet, it sounds like they're just getting some dork on comms to pretend being a traffic controller for roleplaying purposes.
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Jan 16, 2024 21:05
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Valatar posted:it sounds like they're just getting some dork on comms to pretend being a traffic controller for roleplaying purposes. Having done no research, it’s absolutely this.
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Jan 16, 2024 21:17
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Valatar posted:Elite has some basic traffic control on its stations, so it's feasible. Dunno if Star Citizen has any sort implemented yet, it sounds like they're just getting some dork on comms to pretend being a traffic controller for roleplaying purposes. The only traffic control that exists is a 'let me launch' or 'let me land' kind. It doesn't care otherwise, but it does assign you a hangar. Also, as soon as you enter the proximity of hailing to 'let me land' there is a voice prompt from ATC that immediately bugs out and says "You are cleared to take off." despite being, uh, inbound to land.
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Jan 16, 2024 21:24
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