Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

median sold prices seem to be where they were 3 years ago now

# ? Jan 15, 2024 00:49

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 21:14

Nairbo: Jan 2, 2005

Typo posted:

median sold prices seem to be where they were 3 years ago now

I�m sticking to my guess that housing drops 20% YoU. Maybe more in the BC condo market. If it�s dropping before rate drops (which, aside from COVID free money era, always leads to price drops) and the required recession for those rate drops, there�s zero fundamentals signaling any more bumps. The talk of immigration limits, not that immigrants with average $38k salary are buying homes, means that artificial floor pricing dream of existing home owners is gone too.

I hope I�m wrong in that it�s even more.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 07:55

Fidelitious: Apr 17, 2018; MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

RealityWarCriminal posted:

It would be nice if there was some real industry for these people to work in rather than working in a tim's in an isolated town

I saw something about Nova Scotia I think, going on a recruiting journey to bring in tradespeople. Yes, here it is
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/more-than-4-000-skilled-workers-apply-for-halifax-jobs-after-recruitment-drive-1.7082622

Lead out in cuffs posted:

IIRC the Conservative proposal is to try to force municipalities / provinces to relax their building codes. Which probably isn't legally possible, but also seems like a pretty terrible idea.

Also building codes are no part of a roadblock to building that I can see. Every time I've seen a building cancelled or modified it's been some combo of shadow studies, too tall, not enough parking, character, or some form of restrictive zoning.
That's leaving out the general pushback when homeowners find out they might have to live within 10 km of social housing, poor people, or renters.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 15:13

Shofixti: Nov 23, 2005; Kyaieee!

I�m not sure whether building codes are causing a huge issue but if they are it�s unlikely you�d be seeing it manifest as canceled or modified projects. People in development know the code can�t be negotiated with so they�ll comply with it from the start in comparison to other aspects that do have flexibility.

That said I did find this article an interesting read about what they see as impacts of building code on affordability.

https://www.centerforbuilding.org/blog/we-we-cant-build-family-sized-apartments-in-north-america

# ? Jan 15, 2024 18:58

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

I'm under the impression that building code is more of a blocker to like what sort of product gets built and the flexibility that developers have. I'm not sure it's like a total deal breaker that kills projects, but tweaking the building code could make it cheaper to do certain sorts of things.

Biggest example I can think of is that I've repeatedly read that single stair type buildings would make it remarkably easier and cheaper to make three bedroom units, with developers and architects pointing to the inflexibility that derives from the two stairway mandate as a major cause why three bedroom units are rare.

So like if the government wants more three bedrooms, they could like mandate some percentage amount, which could render certain projects unviable, which could result in less buildings and less total units being built. Or they could change the building code in a way that makes three bedrooms easier to build and more profitable.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 21:13

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

I heard if you downgrade the cladding from 'non-flammable' to 'flammable' you can reduce costs and as a bonus maybe kill an entire condo building full of working class families. Works out for everyone when you think about it.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 22:43

Mederlock: Jun 23, 2012; You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it; Grimey Drawer

qhat posted:

I heard if you downgrade the cladding from 'non-flammable' to 'flammable' you can reduce costs and as a bonus maybe kill an entire condo building full of working class families. Works out for everyone when you think about it.

Oh yeah, Britain pioneered this technology

# ? Jan 15, 2024 22:46

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Mederlock posted:

Oh yeah, Britain pioneered this technology

Yeah that was specifically the example I was thinking about. In theory simplifying building codes would only be to consolidate existing rules and get rid of obsolete ones, but never compromising on safety. Imagine that though.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 22:48

Nairbo: Jan 2, 2005

https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report

Rents 📉 even in the two provinces with the highest levels of immigration.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 23:19

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Nairbo posted:

https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report

Rents 📉 even in the two provinces with the highest levels of immigration.

Maybe I missed something but it just looks like the rate increase was lower, not that rents actually decreased in real terms. This is always to be expected when the market reaches its maximum asking price - it�ll asymptote. I�m on mobile though so maybe I missed something I could have seen on a larger screen.

# ? Jan 15, 2024 23:51

Nairbo: Jan 2, 2005

a primate posted:

Maybe I missed something but it just looks like the rate increase was lower, not that rents actually decreased in real terms. This is always to be expected when the market reaches its maximum asking price - it�ll asymptote. I�m on mobile though so maybe I missed something I could have seen on a larger screen.

Those are the rates of decreases Month over Month, which is the trend line to use for something as reactive and leading as rent. Vancouver, for example, was $2866 for a 1 bedroom in December 2023 vs $2700 in January 2024. Some seasonality is to blame as January is often the slowest month, but 5.8% is a significant jump from the 1% decrease MoM in the January 2023 report.

The jumps in Alberta offset some of the losses in BC and Ontario to a degree but sentiment in AB is still high and rent vs wages isn't so insanely out of wack like it is in BC/ON (not to mention sales prices in AB are flat vs dropping in BC/ON)

# ? Jan 16, 2024 00:20

EoRaptor: Sep 13, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Fidelitious posted:

Also building codes are no part of a roadblock to building that I can see. Every time I've seen a building cancelled or modified it's been some combo of shadow studies, too tall, not enough parking, character, or some form of restrictive zoning.
That's leaving out the general pushback when homeowners find out they might have to live within 10 km of social housing, poor people, or renters.

Violating building codes have liability, including criminal. None of the rest of what you mentioned does, and I think it's obvious what motivation developers have here.

# ? Jan 16, 2024 02:50

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

The problem with using Grenfell as some example of deregulation gone bad is that at no point was any of that cladding or insulation appropriate to use at all and the regulations actually prevented the use of this cladding for tall buildings. It seems like the main reason why the flammable product was used was due to incompetence and the inspectors not really caring. Doesn't really seem like a problem with deregulation.

quote:

Grenfell Tower was inspected 16 times while the cladding was being put on but none of these inspections noticed that materials effectively banned in tall buildings were being used.

whoopsie.

Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jan 16, 2024

# ? Jan 16, 2024 05:09

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Libs finally realizing that they're being pulverized in the polls and maybe they should do something

quote:

Ottawa may 'rein in' temporary resident numbers as housing concerns intensify, minister says
Immigration minister says options include reforming permits, capping intake of non-permanent residents

Immigration Minister Marc Miller says he'll be scrutinizing the number of international students and other non-permanent residents coming into Canada, as political tension builds around the interplay between housing affordability and immigration.

In an interview airing Sunday on Rosemary Barton Live, Miller said the relationship between housing and immigration is complex, and it was discussed around the cabinet table when it came to setting targets for the number of people coming in to Canada.

"Housing has and continues to be a concern, acutely so now in a post-COVID scenario, with the increase in interest rates, with supply challenges, but also just affordability challenges," Miller told CBC chief political correspondent Rosemary Barton.

"It isn't immigrants that raised interest rates, but volume is volume and it's something that we need to look at."

Canada is facing major challenges around housing affordability. The Conservative opposition has sought to place the blame on the Liberal government by linking government deficits with rising interest rates.

"My common-sense plan is to cut waste and cap spending to balance the budget so we have more affordable interest rates," Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre said during an event in Thunder Bay, Ont., on Friday.

"And secondly, to tie the number of dollars cities get for infrastructure to the number of homes they allow to be built."

Polls suggest a shift in Canadians' thinking on immigration in relation to housing, with a strong majority saying that greater numbers of people coming together are exacerbating the housing affordability crisis and increasing strain on the health-care system.

The Liberal government has responded with a series of measures designed to increase housing affordability � including a flurry of deals with municipalities to incentivize more housing-friendly zoning and regulation changes � in exchange for federal dollars. Miller also introduced new regulations on foreign students in December.

This week, a report by The Canadian Press revealed senior civil servants had warned the government that increased immigration would have an impact on the affordability and availability of housing, as well as services such as health care.

In November, the government announced that after several recent increases to its annual immigration targets, it would hold steady at a goal of 500,000 new permanent residents in 2026. Miller also said his work in the next few months would focus on temporary residents.

"I think the challenge with the non-permanent resident targets is there are none," he said, noting that restricting temporary workers could have serious economic implications.

"We have to take a look at that and rein it in, in many areas, but we need to be clear about what that means, exactly."

He floated the idea of either reforming postgraduate work permits or "really controlling the volume" of non-permanent residents.

In a separate interview on CBC's The House that aired Saturday, Miller defended the government's approach to immigration broadly, arguing that it was needed to ensure a sustainable and growing labour force in Canada as the population ages.

Miller also noted that issues like the number of post-secondary students coming to Canada on temporary visas are shared with provinces, which are responsible for regulating colleges and universities.

Jovial Orlachi Osundu, president of the international students association at Universit� de Moncton, said in a separate interview on Rosemary Barton Live that it was "pretty unfair to blame international students" for the housing crisis, and that affordability was already having an effect on people looking to move to Canada.

"I believe it's going to discourage people that are waiting to come here for studies," Osundu said.

Miller said the federal government was looking to intervene in a market where some actors were trading long-term pain in the housing market for short-term monetary gain.

"I don't want to be crass about this, but the federal government is the only actor here not making money off this," Miller said. He said some provinces needed to be ready to make changes and he was looking forward to working with them.

"We need to signal to them that the bar is closed and we need to figure this out. And it's shared jurisdiction � the federal government is prepared to do something if they're not."

# ? Jan 16, 2024 05:39

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Obviously not going to do the correct thing, but they will surely do something.

# ? Jan 16, 2024 06:02

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Femtosecond posted:

The problem with using Grenfell as some example of deregulation gone bad is that at no point was any of that cladding or insulation appropriate to use at all and the regulations actually prevented the use of this cladding for tall buildings. It seems like the main reason why the flammable product was used was due to incompetence and the inspectors not really caring. Doesn't really seem like a problem with deregulation.

whoopsie.

There are ways for government to effectively deregulate without actually changing any laws that would seem in a way heinous to the casual voter. Such as there's too much money being spent doing, for example, inspecting buildings and bureaucratic red tape, so let's just uh not spend money on that thing. The management of the building was the local council of the borough, i.e elected officials. Residents were complaining and the local government just threw the complaints in the bin, thinking it was just a bunch of whiny poors getting in the way of real profit making. Given the opportunities, these bastards would 100% enshrine these lax standards into law, which is why everyone should make sure they never ever get the chance.

# ? Jan 16, 2024 06:10

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

lol

quote:

Planned 55-Storey Tower In Vancouver West End Placed Under Receivership
The project, 1045 Haro Street, was being developed by Haro-Thurlow Street Project Limited Partnership, who now owes $82.2M.

A high-profile high-rise project planned for the West End of Vancouver will not be getting off the ground anytime soon, as the developers behind the project have been placed under receivership, according to filings in the Supreme Court of British Columbia.

Planned for 830-850 Thurlow Street and 1045 Haro Street was a 55-storey strata condo tower and a 15-storey tower with a total of 450 strata condominiums and 66 rental units, according to the project website, which remains online. Plans also called for 42,000 sq. ft of retail space, a 49-space childcare facility, and a new public plaza.

A receivership application submitted last year by the Bank of Montreal, a secured creditor of the project, claims the developers owe an outstanding $82.2M in principal and interest.

The development site is legally owned by Harlow Holdings Ltd. and beneficially owned by Haro-Thurlow Street Project Limited Partnership (HTLP), which itself is owned by several parties: 11044227 BC Ltd. (45%), Forseed Haro Holdings Ltd. (45%), and Terrapoint Developments Ltd. (10%).

All of the above parties and several individuals with ownership stakes in the above entities are collectively the subject of the receivership application.

Notable Vancouver-based developer Intracorp Homes is serving as the development manager of the project, and is a minority shareholder through Terrapoint Developments Ltd., but Intracorp is itself not a subject of the receivership application. The architect of the project is Patkau Architects.

The development site is currently occupied by a low-rise commercial building and a seven-storey apartment building originally constructed in 1980, according to BC Assessment records, which values the two sites � as one parcel � at $98.1M.

The owners of the property acquired the site for $172,750,000 in August 2018, financed through $94M provided by BMO and $84.5M from Forseed and Terrapoint, who have continued to fund the ongoing costs of the project to a total of $106M as of December 2023.

BMO's credit agreement with the owners includes both a first-ranking mortgage against the property as well as a general security agreement. Forseed and another company collectively hold a second mortgage against the property, but there is "no evidence as to the amount owed, if any," according to the receivership application.

According to the owners, they have been unable to meet the City of Vancouver's requirements to proceed with the project, "despite substantial efforts to do so over the last five years," and have yet to formally apply for a development permit. Those difficulties appear to be, at least in part, the project's encroachment of several view cones, according to a Council report dated June 2022. The City of Vancouver is currently undergoing a review of its view cones policies.

Due to these struggles, the owners negotiated several amendments to their credit agreement, the most recent of which occurred in September 2022 and provided an extension of the "outside date" to August 31, 2023. In early 2023, BMO told the owners it would not provide any further extensions, which prompted the owners to try to sell the property.

CBRE was retained and a total of six different offers were received by May 2023, ranging between $81.5M and $100M � significantly less than what the property was acquired for. One offer noted in the receivership application was made by Chard Development for $93M. The offer was supported by Terrapoint, but not Forseed and 11044227 BC Ltd.

Ultimately, none of the offers were accepted, as stakeholders did not want to accept the significant loss on their investments, and this created tension between the two majority stakeholders � Forseed and 11044227 BC Ltd. � and minority stakeholder Terrapoint, with Terrapoint asserting that the majority partners did not provide any "good faith" reasons to refuse the offer made by Chard Development.

The majority partners denied this and said that they were attempting to refinance the debt, but provided little evidence to show for it.

"Even Terrapoint, a minority stakeholder in HTLP, has little information regarding this proposed refinancing and no information as to any other refinancing options," noted Justice Shelley Fitzpatrick in a judgment this month. "Terrapoint is not prepared to be a part of any refinancing of the property. This may or may not prove to be a sticking point, since Terrapoint, through Intracorp, has been involved in the management of the development and construction of the property to the present time."

The owners defaulted on their interest payment in July 2023 and BMO subsequently made demand for payment on August 29, when the outstanding amount was $95,520,027.39. BMO later put forth a forbearance agreement, but the owners refused to sign. Shortly after, BMO filed its receivership application.

In an affidavit sworn in December, Kang Yu Canning Zou, a director of several of the entities that are the subject of the receivership application, collectively referred to as CM Group, said that the owners have identified three lenders who have indicated a willingness to provide loans to repay the debt. However, BMO claims that no evidence of such lenders have been provided.

As a result of the credit agreement, the gross monthly interest cost is $620,000. However, monthly income from the existing rental complex, which is being managed by FirstService Residential BC Ltd., is just $175,000, resulting in a significant monthly shortfall, and BMO's Director of the Special Accounts Management Unit, Peter Mullin, told the court that BMO has lost confidence that the owners are working to repay the debt.

In its receivership application, BMO said it was seeking the appointment of a receiver to arrange a timely sale of the property.

An appraisal prepared by LW Property Advisors in July 2023 valued the property at $192M, but that value is based on the site's development potential and there is no evidence any lenders would recognize that valuation, Justice Fitzpatrick notes.

In an affidavit sworn in December, President of Intracorp Homes Evan Allegretto said that he expects the value of the property now to be even lower than the $93M offer submitted by Chard Development, pointing to higher interest rates, tightening of credit, increased construction costs, and the limited amount of potential purchasers who are able to purchase a property of this size, among other reasons.

The owners sought out more time to pay off the debt and that led to another dispute between the owners and BMO. However, the court ultimately ruled that the receiver, Deloitte, would be appointed as of January 12, but will not be empowered to undertake any sales efforts until after February 23, and will not be able to seek approval of any sale offers until after April 26.

If a sales process for the property were to commence, the receiver would likely seek out a commercial real estate brokerage to list and market the property. The offers that are received would then be whittled down before one is presented to the court for final approval.

Let's see what the city staff has to say in their report...

quote:

Staff have provided a preliminary assessment of the proposal to rezone 830-850 Thurlow Street
and 1045 Haro Street from DD to CD-1 to permit the development of two towers with a
maximum building height of 580 feet and determined the application is significantly
non-compliant with respect to the View Protection Guidelines and the West End Community
Plan, Rezoning Policy for the West End, and accompanying West End � Tower Form, Siting and
Setbacks Bulletin. Staff are seeking Council�s direction regarding these policies, prior to
submitting the report to Council for referral to a Public Hearing.

The proposal contravenes Council-approved protected public views and disregards the public
trust and the policy framework established by Council. Allowing this proposal to intrude into
protected public views would erode the integrity of the policy framework, and construes a benefit
to one property that is not available to similarly situated properties.

Pretty remarkable chutzpah that it appears the entire business model for this tower relied on completely contravening City of Vancouver public protected view policy, somehow convincing the city to make some sort of special exemption and building a tower that is remarkably over height.

Is there any business that has such a casual disregard for regulations?

"Coincidentally" the specific view that Vancouver's ABC council is suddenly so interested in reviewing is this particular view that impacted this development.

No wonder everyone thinks developers are corrupt crooks.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 07:30

Evis: Feb 28, 2007; Flying Spaghetti Monster

Protecting view cones is silly, especially given the current housing crisis.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 18:14

Square Peg: Nov 11, 2008

drat that's really edging into "the bank has a problem" levels of unpayable debt.

quote:

the View Protection Guidelines and the West End Community Plan, Rezoning Policy for the West End, and accompanying West End � Tower Form, Siting and Setbacks Bulletin

Looking forward to that site being an empty pit or an ugly parking lot for the forseeable future due to these arbitrary aesthetic regulations.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 18:41

T.C.: Feb 10, 2004; Believe.

That's pretty funny but this is how development in Vancouver has worked for the past thirty years. You buy land that's 'undervalued' because of its zoning or development restrictions and try to capitalize on that by acting like you're being unreasonably restrained by the restrictions continuing to exist now that you've bought it.

It's functionally the same as buying things like the Molson brewery based on a business model that requires completely different zoning.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 18:58

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

T.C. posted:

It's functionally the same as buying things like the Molson brewery based on a business model that requires completely different zoning.

This is one of my favourite land use cases.

Concord Pacific acquires the site for $185 million despite established City policy against the conversion of industrial land, which was assessed at $49 million because it's an heavy industrial site.

Will no one rid me of these burdensome regulators and allow me to build this? Senakw is just next door (FN lands are their own beast), so why not let us build upon that too?

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:17

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Evis posted:

Protecting view cones is silly, especially given the current housing crisis.

If only were it possible to build anything at all in the 70+ blocks of residentially zoned land south of this parcel. Alas...

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:32

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Square Peg posted:

drat that's really edging into "the bank has a problem" levels of unpayable debt.

Looking forward to that site being an empty pit or an ugly parking lot for the forseeable future due to these arbitrary aesthetic regulations.

It's still standing and full of tenants.

And eh, the assessed value is roughly equal to what's owed to the bank, so the building is pretty much theirs, now. But yeah, it's pretty unlikely that anyone is gonna buy it from them in the current construction environment, and $2M/year in rental income on a $100M property is not exactly an enormous ROI.

(Also, as femtosecond says, there are better places to build a new condo tower than demolishing a perfectly-good 7-storey rental building with 160 units).

Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jan 17, 2024

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:32

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

A huge reason why you get so many big corporate "criminal developers" that rely on outright corruption to get anything built is that we've designed an insane system of zoning and regulations that essentially forces that sort of behavior and filters out any other developers not big and corrupt enough to navigate the system. Like wondering why so many criminals were involved in alcohol during prohibition.

it's why the huge corporate developers are pretty silent or even slightly against a lot of this "yimby" movement poo poo. They don't want the competition. They thrive in this regulatory environment.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:33

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

T.C. posted:

That's pretty funny but this is how development in Vancouver has worked for the past thirty years. You buy land that's 'undervalued' because of its zoning or development restrictions and try to capitalize on that by acting like you're being unreasonably restrained by the restrictions continuing to exist now that you've bought it.

It's functionally the same as buying things like the Molson brewery based on a business model that requires completely different zoning.

I think one of the most persuasive arguments Abundant Housing ever made about the dysfunctional housing system was that the status quo of elaborate zoning and "let's make a deal" type fee structure ensures that only enormously wealthy global developers can participate.

If it's only possible to profitably and viably create housing by finding some sort of structurally undervalued land and going through some years long, baroque process to get it beneficially rezoned, only very well capitalized, established companies with enormously deep pockets and tons of expertise and connections will be able to navigate this process. No surprise then that development in Vancouver is effectively an oligopoly of a handful of enormous players (Bosa, Onni, Aquilini, Westbank, Polygon..) and development is very limited to just a relatively small number of enormous mega developments. Developers basically have to make enormous bets on getting a rezone, with a critical everything or nothing result. Absolutely the sort of environment that invites suspicion of deep corruption, and Vancouverites believe it because they've seen evidence again and again that these developers are routinely asked to make enormous political donations.

If we had another system where you could build a lot more everywhere and the rules were more liberalized, if it was possible to viably build a building simply by staying within the rules, then I think you would see a lot more variety of smaller builders in the market and there'd be more competition.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:42

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

drat Baronjutter beat me to it.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:44

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

I wonder if 11044227 BC Ltd donated to Councillor Peter Meiszner to get him to put forward a motion to get rid of the specific view cone that makes their property worth only ~90M. I don't think we're going to find out.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 19:48

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

In Victoria the vast majority of our rental stock wasn't build by a handful of huge developers, it was built by individuals or small groups of friends. 3 dentists could get together, buy a couple old houses, and put up a cheap simple 4 story apartment building with fairly off the shelf plans. The approval process was quick and easy, the plans and construction was practically standardized mass housing, and the tax structure made it attractive. It was so attractive that so many "small groups of dentists" build so much housing that by the late 70's landlords and single family home owners were screaming at the city to downzone because we had too much cheap rental housing and it was hard to rent it all out.

If your city doesn't make it easy for a few local dentists to pool their money together, easily navigate the approvals system, and successfully put up an apartment building, you got a broken housing system.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 20:10

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

lol yeah I recall reading about all this. It sounded from what I read that a huge amount of this derived from beneficial tax breaks from the Feds. Basically for very high income earners, ie. Dentists, there was some way to pay less taxes by funnelling money into apartment development. Apparently they were barely profitable but it was worth doing for the tax lowering aspect? If that's the case no wonder other developers were mad.

So yeah all of this ended in the 1970s when the Feds got rid of a ton of beneficial tax breaks that made apartments desirable to build.

(hey it's almost as if the Feds have an impact on housing despite it not being their direct jurisdiction...)

# ? Jan 17, 2024 20:24

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Femtosecond posted:

I wonder if 11044227 BC Ltd donated to Councillor Peter Meiszner to get him to put forward a motion to get rid of the specific view cone that makes their property worth only ~90M. I don't think we're going to find out.

Lol I was doing some Googling and this Kang Yu Canning Zou guy (aka 11044227 BC Ltd ) seems like quite the piece of work.

https://supremeadvocacy.ca/2023/07/20/scc-today-10-dismissed/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=scc-today-10-dismissed

Bailing out his struggling development corp by just taking $30M from another international company that he totally wasn't the director of:

quote:

1115830 B.C. Ltd., et al. v. Treasure Bay HK Limited, et al., 2022 BCCA 380 (40562)
The Respondent, Treasure Bay HK Limited, was the only minority shareholder of the Respondent, GM International Holding Limited (�GMIH�). Both were Hong Kong companies. Treasure Bay sought to bring a common law derivative action against the Applicants, 1115830 B.C. Ltd., 1104227 B.C. Ltd., Harlow Holdings and Kang Yu Canning Zou, also known as Kenny Zou (together the �BC Defendants�). Mr. Zou was a British Columbia resident who owned and controlled the corporate Applicants which were all British Columbia companies. Mr. Zou was alleged to beneficially own and control the majority shareholder of GMIH, and acted as the de facto director of GMIH. Treasure Bay�s derivative action was based on allegations Mr. Zou, in breach of his fiduciary duties to GMIH, advanced $30M to his British Columbia companies without adequate security. The companies defaulted on the loans and despite an alleged request to do so, Mr. Zou prevented GMIH from acting to recover the indebtedness. The loans are governed by British Columbia law, and British Columbia is the non-exclusive forum for actions relating to them. In the derivative action, Treasure Bay sought damages for the losses suffered by GMIH, as well as an equitable interest in property located in British Columbia and owned by the BC Defendants. The BC Defendants applied to strike Treasure Bay�s derivative action for failure to disclose a cause of action on the basis Treasure Bay did not, as was required, first seek leave of the court to initiate the action. The applications judge dismissed the BC Defendants� application to strike, and the B.C.C.A. dismissed their subsequent appeal. �The application for leave to appeal�is dismissed with costs to the respondent, Treasure Bay HK Limited.�

Defrauding his co-investors out of their stake when buying Grouse Mountain on behalf of the Chinese government (yes, for three years this guy owned 60% of Grouse Mountain, with the other 40% being owned by CMIG, a parastatal of the PRC):
https://today.line.me/hk/v2/article/MkXzJa

(It was later unloaded by CMIG when they ran into financial difficulties, and returned to being owned by Vancouver-based evil business tycoons instead).

Looks like this is his overall investment corp: https://cmpartners.ca/portfolio

And their portfolio is (was): Grouse Mountain, this property, and a consignment furniture store in Washington State. So I guess they're down to the furniture store now.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 20:25

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Baronjutter posted:

In Victoria the vast majority of our rental stock wasn't build by a handful of huge developers, it was built by individuals or small groups of friends. 3 dentists could get together, buy a couple old houses, and put up a cheap simple 4 story apartment building with fairly off the shelf plans. The approval process was quick and easy, the plans and construction was practically standardized mass housing, and the tax structure made it attractive. It was so attractive that so many "small groups of dentists" build so much housing that by the late 70's landlords and single family home owners were screaming at the city to downzone because we had too much cheap rental housing and it was hard to rent it all out.

If your city doesn't make it easy for a few local dentists to pool their money together, easily navigate the approvals system, and successfully put up an apartment building, you got a broken housing system.

Femtosecond posted:

lol yeah I recall reading about all this. It sounded from what I read that a huge amount of this derived from beneficial tax breaks from the Feds. Basically for very high income earners, ie. Dentists, there was some way to pay less taxes by funnelling money into apartment development. Apparently they were barely profitable but it was worth doing for the tax lowering aspect? If that's the case no wonder other developers were mad.

So yeah all of this ended in the 1970s when the Feds got rid of a ton of beneficial tax breaks that made apartments desirable to build.

(hey it's almost as if the Feds have an impact on housing despite it not being their direct jurisdiction...)

Going by how much of the wood-frame low-rise in Vancouver was built in the 1960s/1970s, I'd 100% believe that it was a similar situation here.

# ? Jan 17, 2024 20:28

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Boom government finally does a thing.

quote:

Canada unveils new restrictions on work permits for international students, spouses
The federal government has announced new measures to limit and curb the abuse of the international student program.

The federal government will restrict access to work permits for foreign students and their spouses as part of new measures meant to limit and curb the abuse of Canada's international education program.

The measures were announced Monday, along with confirmation that Canada will implement a two-year cap on international study permits � news first reported by the Star on Friday � with an aim of reducing the number issued by 35 per cent from 2023's level, to 364,000.

Starting on Sept. 1, the federal government will stop issuing postgraduate work permits to international students who graduate from programs provided under so-called Public College-Private Partnerships, Immigration Minister Marc Miller said Monday.

Furthermore, for most of the international students who are not studying in graduate schools or in a professional program such as medicine or law, their spouses will no longer receive the benefit of having a work permit to work in Canada during their studies.

"It is not the intention of this program to have sham commerce degrees and business degrees that are sitting on top of a massage parlour," Miller told reporters. "This is something we need to rein in ... Those institutions need to be shut down."

Each province will be assigned a fixed number of study permits that's proportional to its population in Canada, and wlll have to decide how it divvies them up among the schools authorized to take in international students.

Ontario and British Columbia will be most affected by those rules as the majority of study permit holders go to schools in those provinces, with them being home to 51 per cent and 20 per cent of international students respectively.

The fast-growing international student program has been in the spotlight amid aggressive recruiting campaigns by the post-secondary education sector, and by unregulated foreign agents. Migrants increasingly look at studying in Canada as a backdoor to working and earn permanent residence here.

The current affordable-housing crisis and rising cost of living have seen many international students struggling to seek employment and secure shelter and has led to some turning to food banks.

With dwindling provincial funding, post-secondary education institutions have turned to international students as a revenue source. Employers have grown used to the ceaseless supply of students to fill low-wage jobs in fast-food joints, retail, warehouses, factories and gig work.

"These measures are not against individual international students," said Miller. "They are to ensure that as future students arrive in Canada, they receive the quality of education that they signed up for and the hope that they were provided in the home countries.

"Some provinces will actually have some room to go up if they so choose. But the provinces that have been heavily affected will have to decrease, decrease by about 50 per cent and perhaps even more than 50 per cent when it comes to new incoming people. "

According to Ontario's Public Accounts, revenue from fees paid to the province's public colleges grew more than $1 billion last year, from $3.4 billion in 2022 to $4.4 billion in 2023. The province's auditor general has also warned that the freeze and reduction in tuition paid by Canadians at Ontario post-secondary institutions "appears to have contributed to universities becoming financially dependent on international student enrolment."

A Star investigation found the growth of international student enrolment in recent years is primarily at public colleges because they offer shorter programs and cost less than universities but, unlike private colleges, still provide access to coveted postgraduate work permits.

At some Ontario public colleges, there are more international students than domestic students through so-called Public College-Private Partnerships authorized by the province, where taxpayer-funded colleges provide curriculum at a fee to their private career college partners, which hire their own instructors to deliver the academic programs.

Graduates from the private colleges then receive a public college credential, which makes them eligible for postgraduate work permits as a pathway for permanent residence. At least 11 of the 24 Ontario public colleges are partnered with for-profit private career colleges located in the GTA, and those enrolled are almost exclusively international students.

"This has been very, very lucrative, and it is certainly something that private colleges have made a lot of money out of," said Miller at Monday's news conference. "I'm not the minister of post-secondary education underfunding. I'm the minister of immigration. Clearly in the last decade or so or even longer, post-secondary institutions in Canada have been underfunded by provinces."

RIP diploma mills.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 19:46

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

It's about drat time, honestly. Working at a school that voluntarily gave up its ability to seek foreign students because it was such a bullshit pain in the rear end to put up with, it's my opinion that foreign students should be limited to universities. Otherwise, find a way to be legally resident in Canada outside of being a student, and then do what you will.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 20:10

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Femtosecond posted:

RIP diploma mills.

It's worth noting that the power to strip accreditation from diploma mills, thus depriving them of the ability to have visas issued to their "students," has always been a provincial power and not a federal one.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 21:08

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

PT6A posted:

It's about drat time, honestly. Working at a school that voluntarily gave up its ability to seek foreign students because it was such a bullshit pain in the rear end to put up with, it's my opinion that foreign students should be limited to universities.

Why is it better for them to be at universities? I think we need more people with vocational training than BAs at this point, from an economic perspective.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 21:16

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

tagesschau posted:

It's worth noting that the power to strip accreditation from diploma mills, thus depriving them of the ability to have visas issued to their "students," has always been a provincial power and not a federal one.

But they are businesses, and Ontario is Open For Business�

# ? Jan 22, 2024 21:21

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Powershift posted:

But they are businesses, and Ontario is Open For Business�

Promoting businesses that don't produce anything is certainly in keeping with the theme of overvaluing assets that don't produce anything.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 21:25

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Subjunctive posted:

Why is it better for them to be at universities? I think we need more people with vocational training than BAs at this point, from an economic perspective.

Because universities are somewhat selective with the students they admit. I agree bona fide career colleges would probably be okay, but unless we start regulating them a hell of a lot more than we do, you're gonna end up with problems. Also, based on my experience, demand is very high and there's no reason you, a legit college, would go through the hassle of dealing with international student regulations and bullshit when you could just draw off the waitlist of people who already have status in Canada. Therefore, the colleges who are taking most of the international students are especially likely to be doing it on a bad-faith basis.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 21:43

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

PT6A posted:

Because universities are somewhat selective with the students they admit. I agree bona fide career colleges would probably be okay, but unless we start regulating them a hell of a lot more than we do, you're gonna end up with problems. Also, based on my experience, demand is very high and there's no reason you, a legit college, would go through the hassle of dealing with international student regulations and bullshit when you could just draw off the waitlist of people who already have status in Canada. Therefore, the colleges who are taking most of the international students are especially likely to be doing it on a bad-faith basis.

You would go with international students because of the economic circumstances that the province has created with its funding and tuition models for public colleges, at least in Ontario�exactly as the auditor was cited as saying in the article.

# ? Jan 22, 2024 21:51

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 21:14

Purgatory Glory: Feb 20, 2005

Canada's basket weaving sector is about to take a huge hit. Curious to hear all the workarounds that get figured out.

# ? Jan 23, 2024 00:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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