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Kwolok posted:Realistically, if I'm just a basic GA pilot who isn't allowed to receive payment from my passengers, do you ever get in trouble for things like, "yeah I didn't accept payment from my passengers but they bought me lunch and dinner" kinda thing? No. If what you're doing is pretty clearly not "I'm charging people to fly them places" then you're fine. Like, you and some friends can decide you're going on a trip somewhere and they can pay you their share of gas/oil/rental either in money or by buying you lunch or whatever. But if you say "I'm flying to XXX, who wants to go? The whole flight is gonna cost $Z, so your share is $Z/2" then that gets a CLOSE eye.
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Jan 14, 2024 20:06
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Rolo posted:What happened to ferret king, weren’t they ATC? I'm alive and well. I'm still with the FAA but in a support role. Lost my medical a few years back. It all worked out well for me though, I have few complaints besides the drudgery of office work and the bureaucracy of government. Bob A Feet was referring to me btw. I stairs'd him. And I'd do it again but they won't let me near a radio anymore.... (Which, is fair) The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 20:10
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A Sneaker Broker posted:I’ll get this and do one of those one hour flights to see if I want to be fully invested. I’ll also start checking out some cadet schools. Thanks! I'll add an effortpost: I started training with a pilot mill well pre-1500 hour rule which had partnered with several colleges across the country. Private was a blast with good instructors and a great community feel, which made it easy to look past the fact the airplanes were flying buckets of gently caress. Instrument was 100% worse with a) a full class load, b) a new group of instructors with brooms up their asses, and c) every other training day being PCATD (desktop sim)/Flight/PCATD to expedite the training; my CFII noticed I was burned out and Incompleted the second PCATD on one occasion. I decided I was done when my CFI wasted an entire afternoon to do DME Arcs in an airplane in which the DME readout was illegible and he knew it. When the pilot mill changed their strategy and folded everything back into their main campus, they went "lol cya" on short notice while the college, instructors, and students were hung out to dry; one kid was down to his Instrument checkride and his parents threatened to sue, so one staff DPE from the mill did it while the building was being packed and loaded into a Penske truck. The college then partnered with a local FBO, an arrangement which lasted 13 years. I finished my Instrument there but, by that point, was buttfucked by the 1500 hour rule which, TL;DR, can be described as "boomers pulling up the ladder behind them". (*There is a way around this. See below.) As for that FBO, I later returned to work for the college and watched the relationship implode after a change in ownership, at which point the new owner's omniscience in perfecting the art of "How I Runs Airplane Skool?" took a blowtorch to the whole thing. TL;DR: -Even the flight school industry can be volatile and change quickly. -*An FAA-approved college program can get you hired with 1000 hours with a bachelor's or 1250 with an associate's. Combine this with a Cadet Program and it could, potentially, be a good deal with your foot in the door at a regional. -I'll defer to others on Pilot Mill Life, but my understanding is many of them is your entire life is "eat, fly, breathe, fly, sleep, fly, repeat" and you'll still have to build 1500 hours to get hired. -Regardless of what route you take, do your research. What's it like training there? Do they fly functional airplanes or beaters whose primer pisses fuel on you? Does it suck to train there even though they have flashy, G1000-equipped birds? Do they REALLY have a pending partnership with another college in the area or are they advertising something that hasn't yet been approved and are trying to own the college that dumped them? -Don't rush into anything. Kwolok posted:Realistically, if I'm just a basic GA pilot who isn't allowed to receive payment from my passengers, do you ever get in trouble for things like, "yeah I didn't accept payment from my passengers but they bought me lunch and dinner" kinda thing? I always understood it as not more than half the costs of operating the flight (i.e., ramp fees, fuel).
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Jan 14, 2024 20:27
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Kwolok posted:Realistically, if I'm just a basic GA pilot who isn't allowed to receive payment from my passengers, do you ever get in trouble for things like, "yeah I didn't accept payment from my passengers but they bought me lunch and dinner" kinda thing? If it's some random person, then maybe. If it's a friend or family member who would conceivably buy you lunch and dinner "just because" then the FAA really, really doesn't care that much. Or to put it differently: no, taking someone flying does not mean you are forbidden from ever accepting money or favours from them again, but try to avoid situations where there's a specific "deal."
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Jan 14, 2024 20:29
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Kwolok posted:Realistically, if I'm just a basic GA pilot who isn't allowed to receive payment from my passengers, do you ever get in trouble for things like, "yeah I didn't accept payment from my passengers but they bought me lunch and dinner" kinda thing? The FAA doesn't have the resources (or willingness) to go after the vast majority of that kind of thing, so what gets people in trouble is publicly announcing that you'll fly people for compensation, getting involved in accident, or doing something blatant enough that a legitimate charter operator reports you to the FAA. There's a bunch of precedent that "compensation" is basically whatever the FAA says it is (they've successfully argued "goodwill" counts), but if it's just what you're describing, the FAA won't care unless you're doing something really blatant and/or stupid.
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Jan 14, 2024 20:54
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A Sneaker Broker posted:I guess I will start posting here since I told my parents I'm done being lazy, and according to my grandmother, I quote, "need to start pursuing my pilot dream of mine." Is it better to just go to a local school and treat becoming a pilot at school like a job, or is there some big chain of schools doing it better than everyone else? I was recommended ATP, but I need to find out more. I live in Hawaii, so all advice is welcome since I will most likely be moving to go to flight school. Thanks in advance because the more I look into this, the more I need clarification. I'll send you a PM shortly but here's an effortpost about my time at ATP. I'm not sure what has changed since my time there (2018-2022) so take it with a grain of salt. My experience with ATP was a net positive. I did the full program from zero time through MEI and then instructed with ATP for the majority of my time building up to 1500. I found that in general, you get what you put into the program - if you really make an effort to excel and make sure you communicate your needs early and often to the instructors and managers you’ll do well and have fewer sources of frustration than most. I did my training and instructing out of Sacramento (KSAC), which was a smaller training center and my experience was likely very different from that of someone who attended a larger facility like Mesa Gateway (KIWA) but the vast majority of instructors care about your success as do the managers and training support personnel. Most of my issues and frustrations came from aircraft availability (seems like when one goes down for maintenance they all decide to break down in solidarity), weather delays and DPE availability. Most of this has improved a lot and maintenance at ATP is great. Instructor quality can vary a lot since they’re all mostly inexperienced but the program is so structured that it greatly mitigates it until they get more hours under their belt. ATP isn’t shy about swapping instructors if it isn’t working out due to personality issues or whatever it may be but they will try to address any issues before swapping out, which is understandable. The Training Support Manager for the California region was very responsive throughout my entire time as a student and as an instructor which made life easier whenever an issue did arise. Instructing for ATP can be challenging - it is incredibly structured which is helpful and you have a strong support network to help you excel but there is very little flexibility to do things your own way and there are pretty tight goals for keeping students on track. It’s like working for any large company - change takes a long time to implement. If the 100h ME program still exists I don’t really think it's worthwhile unless you either want to go fly corporate or Part 135 ASAP or you want the guaranteed MEI position - and even then it’s not required to be an MEI at ATP. I would recommend checking out ME rental costs at other flight schools if you want to build more multi time for a corporate or 135 job and compare that to the extra cost at ATP. There are a lot of instructor opportunities at ATP if you want to do more than be a line instructor - MEI positions usually require some instructor experience before they put you through multiengine indoc and you can also apply for a Lead Instructor position if you want to play a bigger part in managing the instructors and overall training. I took on both roles and they have extra responsibilities but add interesting challenges and cool flying. The MEI life gets to be incredibly repetitive, you essentially only fly the same 6 maneuvers over and over again - some people love it as you get great at it and some get sick of it eventually, like I did. As a Lead Instructor you get to fly with students in all phases of training which makes it incredibly varied and, in my opinion, fun. SAC has ME aircraft and a sim but I did hear that ATP was planning on centralizing some ME training so I would highly recommend that you get very clear answers on any additional costs that may be incurred if you have to go out of town for extended training. Fleet type and simulator availability varies wildly between training centers. It's a good idea to ask what the specifics are at each location you're interested in attending. I did opt for a partial loan from Sallie Mae and self funded the rest of it. I opted for the variable rate loan which ended up being fine because I didn’t take the full amount and was able to pay it off early, which is good because the rate was coming up quite a bit in the past few months. I do have a couple of friends who refinanced their Sallie Mae loans successfully so there is that. On top of all that I would also budget at least an extra month on top of the planned training footprint to account for delays. Two months would be safer for sure. ATP partners with Sheppard Air test prep software and it works well. It's all based on rote memorization, which I absolutely hate, but it also works well. With a program like ATP I suggest you view the written exams as something you need to get out of the way so you can start actually learning the material. I also recommend you ask about getting the written tests out of the way and how it would work. You get the test software for free when you're enrolled so I'm not sure if you can get it prior to starting or if ATP will reimburse you for getting it done early. Worth finding out. That said, it is perfectly possible to do the writtens while going through the program, so don't stress too hard about it. One more thing to consider is that ATP has a Part 141 Program out of Mesa Gateway (KIWA) partnered with ASU. Could be an option if you want to get a degree during your flight training. As mentioned above, this will allow you to get a Restricted ATP license at 1000h if you get a Bachelor's or 1250g if you go for an Associate's.
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Jan 14, 2024 21:02
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cigaw posted:I'll send you a PM shortly but here's an effortpost about my time at ATP. I'm not sure what has changed since my time there (2018-2022) so take it with a grain of salt. So far, I was looking at KSAC or KLGB. Thanks! Yeah, I may transfer credits over if I end up pursuing my full bachelor's. I feel as if California is my second home since it's so close to Hawaii (flight-time-wise). Also, I have some family out there, so housing would not be a factor at all. Thanks for the information!
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Jan 14, 2024 21:09
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Kwolok posted:Realistically, if I'm just a basic GA pilot who isn't allowed to receive payment from my passengers, do you ever get in trouble for things like, "yeah I didn't accept payment from my passengers but they bought me lunch and dinner" kinda thing? There are clearly stated rules about exactly how much compensation is allowable. As a private pilot you cannot accept compensation for a flight except for a pro-rata share of the expenses of the flight, whether paid in cash or in kind. So if you and two other people fly out for a weekend trip, you add up the cost of rental, fuel, oil, etc. and they can each give you up to one-third of that amount. Buying you dinner instead is fine as long as it doesn't end up costing each of them more than their fair share of the flight. That's what my pilot friends and I usually do -- whoever's in the left seat pays for the flight, and whoever's in the right pays for lunch, and it evens out over time. There are also dozens of FAA letters of interpretation for every possible situation that people have used to try to weasel around the rules. For instance, you can't include the cost of the hotel and the rental car at the airport in the costs of the flight, since those would have happened whether you flew or drove or walked or whatever. So if your passengers say "I'll get the hotel since you got the flight" and the value doesn't work out as described above, that's breaking the regs. And you can't take passengers on a flight that you wouldn't have gone on yourself, even for free, because that's functioning as an unlicensed air taxi service. The classic example is a case where a pilot wanted to fly all the members of his kayaking team to a meet he was going to, but there weren't enough seats in the plane to take everyone at once, so he wanted to shuttle back and forth. The FAA determined that only one flight out and back would be legal, since that's all he needed to get himself to the meet, and the rest would be air taxi operations. (Though ironically he could fly himself back and forth as many times as he liked -- it's just the passenger carrying part that would make the repeated operations illegal) This is stuff that you'll cover as you do ground school and get closer to your checkride. But to answer your question directly, no, nobody's ramp checking receipts as you walk out of the airport restaurant. Nobody's checking whether you're charging your passengers for rides, either, unless you do it enough to get reported to the FSDO. A whole heck of a lot of aviation is based on the honor system. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 21:15
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A Sneaker Broker posted:So far, I was looking at KSAC or KLGB. Thanks! Yeah, I may transfer credits over if I end up pursuing my full bachelor's. I feel as if California is my second home since it's so close to Hawaii (flight-time-wise). Also, I have some family out there, so housing would not be a factor at all. Thanks for the information! I think the guys here have steered you in a good direction. I wanna add something important. You will have to be very self motivated and disciplined. You’ll have to study on your own consistently. You’ll have to show up regularly even on days you don’t feel like it. Accelerated courses are intense. I was in your same shoes almost 20 years ago, early 20’s and lazy. It wasn’t easy finding the strength. But that poo poo has to end. You’ll have to find the willpower to “become an adult”, because ATP is not gonna hold your hand. And they will gladly take your money even if it’s clear that you don’t have what it takes to make it to the finish line. You don’t wanna waste your family’s resources and then spend the rest of your life regretting that you didn’t complete this. So make sure you are ready for this not just financially but mentally. If you do go through with it, you have amazing opportunities ahead of you. It will take you just a couple of years to achieve what took me ten years, just because the industry timing is great right now. It’s a prosperous cycle for pilots. Rolo and I were talking about this when we met a few days ago. You’ll be very fortunate, don’t squander it and don’t waste time or you could find yourself in a bad industry cycle later on. Keep coming back to this thread regularly to post your progress, your struggles, and your success. If you persevere, it won’t be long before you’ll be giving us news about your first solo flight, then your first check ride, then your first job. We’ve been here for guys who started from 0 and are now working at legacy airlines. Make sure you’re the next one. Make us proud, boy 
Animal fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 21:35
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Animal posted:I think the guys here have steered you in a good direction. I wanna add something important. You will have to be very self motivated and disciplined. You’ll have to study on your own consistently. You’ll have to show up regularly even on days you don’t feel like it. Accelerated courses are intense. I was in your same shoes almost 20 years ago, early 20’s and lazy. It wasn’t easy finding the strength. But that poo poo has to end. You’ll have to find the willpower to “become an adult”, because ATP is not gonna hold your hand. And they will gladly take your money even if it’s clear that you don’t have what it takes to make it to the finish line. You don’t wanna waste your family’s resources and then spend the rest of your life regretting that you didn’t complete this. So make sure you are ready for this not just financially but mentally. Yeah, I realized a while ago that I can either A. Be a lazy POS that lives off my parents and does nothing with my life or B. I can fulfill my late Uncle's wish, he told me last year, and go out into the real world and become a pilot. Option B is firmly the position I will be taking.
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Jan 14, 2024 21:39
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A Sneaker Broker posted:Yeah, I realized a while ago that I can either A. Be a lazy POS that lives off my parents and does nothing with my life or B. I can fulfill my late Uncle's wish, he told me last year, and go out into the real world and become a pilot. Option B is firmly the position I will be taking. Sounds good, strike while the iron is hot. Get started ASAP. My advice is that you get your medical certificate early so that you can iron out any issues that come up. Then complete your PPL knowledge exam as early as you possibly can. Just get that poo poo out of the way and focus on flying and on learning the important stuff.
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Jan 14, 2024 21:42
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A Sneaker Broker posted:Yeah, I realized a while ago that I can either A. Be a lazy POS that lives off my parents and does nothing with my life or B. I can fulfill my late Uncle's wish, he told me last year, and go out into the real world and become a pilot. Option B is firmly the position I will be taking. I like your attitude, just make sure you are doing it because you want to (which is what it sounds like). I dealt with two parents who were trying to live vicariously through their kids by sending them through training. One of them didn't seem to want to be there, and it was uncomfortable for everyone involved.
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Jan 14, 2024 22:06
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CBJSprague24 posted:I like your attitude, just make sure you are doing it because you want to (which is what it sounds like). This has been a dream of mine but due to some lucky decisions and some smart decisions, school is feasible now so, I gotta attack the chance. Animal posted:Sounds good, strike while the iron is hot. Get started ASAP. My advice is that you get your medical certificate early so that you can iron out any issues that come up. Then complete your PPL knowledge exam as early as you possibly can. Just get that poo poo out of the way and focus on flying and on learning the important stuff. Yeah, I'm scheduling a medical for this upcoming week. Gonna knock that out immediately since they don't have a wait list at the moment.
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Jan 14, 2024 22:14
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A Sneaker Broker posted:This has been a dream of mine but due to some lucky decisions and some smart decisions, school is feasible now so, I gotta attack the chance. Awesome, go get it! On the topic, isn't there some exception to the cross-country requirements for students who train in Hawaii?
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Jan 14, 2024 22:17
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Yep, there's also some for parts of Alaska as well.
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Jan 14, 2024 22:22
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For me it was essential to move somewhere else to do my training, far from home. In my early 20’s it would have been impossible to focus. Drinking buddies, girls, gaming PC. Those distractions are no good. And much like my home island, Hawaii is just too much fun. I lived an ascetic life in a cheap $40 a night motel in Kissimmee. With just my books and a crappy Acer laptop. Flew twice a day for 5 days a week, with the other two days relaxing and studying. Not because I was an ultra disciplined warrior monk, but because I knew I was a fickle man-child and this was the only way I could finish it. I still slipped every now and then and got wasted with my CFI’s and with a couple of girls who worked at the Hooters 5 minutes away. But it was much better than trying to do it back home. E: grammar Animal fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 22:32
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Animal posted:We’ve been here for guys who started from 0 and are now working at legacy airlines.: Oh, hello. I started flying in 2018 and my class at a legacy airline is coming up next month. Just for some variety, I didn’t do my training through ATP, but rather at several small flight schools in inland Southern California. I really enjoyed the flexibility to do some time building in a less structured way, and do a lot of stuff the regimented syllabus of an ATP type school would not have afforded me. I did my complex airplane training flights on a fly-in camping weekend with some good friends, for example. On the other hand, I think I got really lucky connecting with the schools and instructors that I did, for the most part. My instrument instructor was almost useless, not current on his flying or knowledge and I wound up with a lot of bad habits that took me a bunch of extra time and money down the road to correct. It definitely took a lot more discipline and effort on my end to make my own study schedule, set my own goals for progression and stay on top of scheduling all my flights. Still, it probably only took me a few months longer to start instructing (18 months from my first lesson), but I really valued the freedom and flexibility in pursuing this passion while I got there. Probably wound up saving a few bucks, too. I think at one point I calculated around $55k for my total flight training costs and I believe ATP was what still like 80 grand?
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Jan 14, 2024 22:59
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I did my PPL fixed wing on weekends and it ended up taking 18 months and probably 10 hours more than I would have needed, had I been able to fly more often. My CPL Heli took 4 months (full time) and I flew everyday (sometimes twice) and lived/breathed aviation and it was awesome. I think the biggest thing I saw, was that you have to be willing to work. The school will (hopefully) provide all the info you need, but it's still up to you to learn it. Work and study hard and keep the eye on the price.
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Jan 15, 2024 02:23
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We talked a bit earlier about leaded fuel and now I am paranoid. I just bought my own fuel dip guage and sump but I don't know how to store it, I'd like to not constantly just get leaded fuel over my other poo poo. What would the best container be for this to keep it seperate from my other gear?
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Jan 18, 2024 02:12
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A Ziploc bag is fine.
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Jan 18, 2024 02:19
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Sagebrush posted:A Ziploc bag is fine. OK cool. A part of my brain was like "Won't jet fuel just eat through that plastic?" but the dip gauge is plastic as well sooo
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Jan 18, 2024 02:32
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Ziploc and store it in a different pocket. Avgas isn't too bad, but Jetfuel only takes a tiny drop to stink up a room.
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Jan 18, 2024 02:35
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Kwolok posted:OK cool. A part of my brain was like "Won't jet fuel just eat through that plastic?" but the dip gauge is plastic as well sooo You aren't gonna be flying anything with jet fuel for a while I think 
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Jan 18, 2024 02:59
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Sagebrush posted:You aren't gonna be flying anything with jet fuel for a while I think Now they’re going to have to go find somewhere with diesel DA-40s or whatever just to prove you wrong.
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Jan 18, 2024 03:06
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They have diesel diamonds?
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Jan 18, 2024 05:21
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The 40, 42, 50, and 62 all run jet A (or brand new ones anyway). The 42/50/62 also have fadec. So the multis are single power lever. And they have long wings that don't fit in 40ft T hangars. And probably a bunch of other weird quirks too.
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Jan 18, 2024 05:36
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having done multi and MEI in the DA-42 I can confirm it whips and has approximately the same fuel burn as a 182
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Jan 18, 2024 05:42
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Rolo posted:They have diesel diamonds? The NGs are Austro FADEC turbocharged diesels with constant speed props. Last trip I did I managed 138ktas at 11,500, at 7.1gph. They’re pretty fuckin nice airplanes.
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Jan 18, 2024 14:20
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That’s super cool. In other news, since randomly talking to Animal about living in New York, I’ve talked to tons of other pilots about maybe transferring back to NY and most of them are telling me I should do it. Older captains wish they did it when they were younger, pilots my age say they would if they didn’t have roots where they are, New York based pilots say they love it. Even some pilots on APC are saying yeah it’s nice. Im not used to seeing such positive responses on there. Goon meet may make me move back to the state of my birth at the end of the year. E: oh and the LAN thread was a unanimous mob of nice people telling me to come up.
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Jan 18, 2024 15:19
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I'm amazed the pilot forums aren't telling you to go to a low income tax state instead.
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Jan 18, 2024 15:45
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Rolo posted:That’s super cool. Are you talking about NYC or just New York State? I've always been curious if you can live a fun life being based in NY as a pilot.
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Jan 18, 2024 16:15
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I mean the city. Not sure which part yet.
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Jan 18, 2024 16:21
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FunOne posted:I'm amazed the pilot forums aren't telling you to go to a low income tax state instead. “Why would you live in NYC, looks at my house in Kentucky!” *shows you a horrible McMansion on the lock screen of their clapped out iPhone 6S*
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Jan 18, 2024 16:24
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See that's exactly what I was expecting but nope, super supportive boomers.
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Jan 18, 2024 16:58
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If I was an American I would totally do it... NY or Chicago... Heck I will probably have minimal roots even into my 40s so I might still do it if I get an FAA license and work visa later in my career. It's actually piss easy to convert a Transport Canada license to an FAA license. It's even easier to get an ATPL in Canada than it is in the states and I've heard of people doing an ATPL here, writing a really easy exam and now having an FAA ATPL for less effort.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:00
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FunOne posted:I'm amazed the pilot forums aren't telling you to go to a low income tax state instead. Rolo get a job a SWA and live your southern gentleman dreams in Nashville or Atlanta! Not in the cities, though, those are too full of blue haired zoomers more like 90 minutes away in unincorporated dry-county chudville. It'll be great! Low taxes! Thats it!
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Jan 18, 2024 17:04
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Kraftwerk posted:If I was an American I would totally do it... NY or Chicago... I probably would’ve gone to Chicago right out of training if they had DA BUS.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:13
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Medical is done. Now, on to applying for ATP.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:23
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Kwolok posted:We talked a bit earlier about leaded fuel and now I am paranoid. I just bought my own fuel dip guage and sump but I don't know how to store it, I'd like to not constantly just get leaded fuel over my other poo poo. What would the best container be for this to keep it seperate from my other gear? petitioning congress rn to replace the lead in 100LL with fentanyl
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Jan 18, 2024 22:16
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Animal posted:“Why would you live in NYC, looks at my house in Kentucky!” proceeds to complain about wife/ex-wife/kids/etc the whole trip
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Jan 19, 2024 03:30
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