(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Yeah exactly. Like yeah maybe it's a 1 in a 1000 shot, but do you want to take the chance, when that 1 in a 1000 shot means your death? The Bradley has ATGMs that absolutely can kill the T-90 from most angles, including potentially top-attack missiles. In general if you're basically blind while getting hammered by accurate autocannon fire you probably aren't going to feel super confident that whatever is shooting you *or anything else nearby* doesn't have something spicier.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:16
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Yeah exactly. Like yeah maybe it's a 1 in a 1000 shot, but do you want to take the chance, when that 1 in a 1000 shot means your death? As has been pointed out by a bunch of tank historians: Whoever shoots first, regardless of having the better or the worst weapons system, is most likely to win. Being hit by anything is mind numbingly horrifying for the crew subjected to it, so it doesn't matter if it doesn't penetrate, that crew is likely panicking and going through hell, let alone a crew that has received Russia level of training, which is likely not much. And yeah, the Bradleys that Ukraine has been provided with have TOW missiles as well as an option, they can theoretically take a T-90 out.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:21
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If I'm not misremembering, you have to be stationary to fire the TOW which can be problematic if you aren't camping in relative safety somewhere out of sight
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Jan 18, 2024 21:37
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Warbadger posted:The Bradley has ATGMs that absolutely can kill the T-90 from most angles, including potentially top-attack missiles. Sure, but "even" if they're getting blasted non-stop by Bushmasters which theoretically don't have much of a chance of penetrating a T90. Must loving suck.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:42
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The other question to ask is what was the T90 doing operating alone? There didnt appear to be any other vehicles or infantry around.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:53
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“breakthrough” tank
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Jan 18, 2024 21:53
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Burns posted:The other question to ask is what was the T90 doing operating alone? There didnt appear to be any other vehicles or infantry around. It was a special military operation.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:54
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Burns posted:The other question to ask is what was the T90 doing operating alone? There didnt appear to be any other vehicles or infantry around. 
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Jan 18, 2024 21:57
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I was only ever under heavy fire once in a tank in Iraq. Instead of returning the fire, we kind of just secured the immediate area and sat in place because: -We could have ended up firing on non-combatants. -We could have advanced into mines/IEDs, or an obstacle. -We could have advanced into an ambush or a new fire zone. -We could have backed up onto a person, or onto an obstacle that could have gotten us stuck. So our TC got on the radio with the rest of our platoon as well as our infantry cover, and our command. With everyone working together, we were able to coordinate safe routes and cover one another. It's why whenever I see the "are tanks useless now?" argument upon seeing a lone T-tank in the middle of the Ukrainian Steppes or a city get lit up, I need to bring up the usual arguments that those tanks are not being used right. Now putting myself in the place of those tank crewmen, I can't imagine what was going through their heads. They're getting pelted. Anything they have from the mechanicals to electronics to optics could be failing or soon failing. They're in a T-tank, so there's no standing room and big autoloader sitting between the gunner and TC (don't underestimate the utility of a TC's boot tapping on the back of his gunner). The driver is semi-isolated and needs directions. The TC needs to decide whether to pull back or engage if he can even do either. Once he decides, does he pop smoke? Our instructors always said that popping smoke can save lives, but what if it just results into them driving into something that gets them stuck? I could go on for pages and pages. This is also why I never really engaged in the pissing and moaning whenever an officer told us to stand down and coordinate with any support. But now imagine if there were infantry or other tanks supporting that T-90, and it's a completely different situation. It's also why I keep saying that there must be something really hosed up with Russian armor doctrine or command structure to be sending lone tanks out in the middle of nowhere like this. It also reeks of possible recon problems. We always had Bradleys, Strykers, or Hummers at our side, filling in gaps. Granted, we also had air supremacy, but I think my point still stands.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:58
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I was only ever under heavy fire once in a tank in Iraq. Instead of returning the fire, we kind of just secured the immediate area and sat in place because: I believe it’s called a reconnoitre in farce.
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Jan 18, 2024 22:05
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I mean, to be fair also, your first point of not firing on non-combatants clearly doesn't apply.
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Jan 18, 2024 22:07
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Great post. It's always nice to hear from people who have done the thing. And yeah, it's completely mystifying why a lone T90 is tooling around somewhere, just begging to get blapped by any number of things.
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Jan 18, 2024 22:13
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I was only ever under heavy fire once in a tank in Iraq. Instead of returning the fire, we kind of just secured the immediate area and sat in place because: e: freshly stolen from ncd 
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 22:32
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Sedgr posted:Somewhere in Russia smoke rises above a T-14 Armata. Have its engines miraculously sprung to life? Electronics replaced with magic and wishes? Its endless problems resolved? No! But burning the hardware and grifting the budget have been proving successful at keeping the heat going in the winter. I was told the Bradley was Badley because of Pentagon Wars! It was designed by committee and MIC corruption! (meanwhile in Russia MOD) General Blyat: "we should fill T-14 full of gold parts so we can steal them"
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Jan 18, 2024 23:02
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I swear we have been having the "why is a single tank operating alone" discussion since the start of this. Russia coms are god awful and we rarely see any coordination between groups or units.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:09
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She Bradleys my T90 till I smoke grenade
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Jan 18, 2024 23:36
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Everyone get your weekend airframe loss requests into the Sharepoint site before Friday. Personally I'm hoping they can nab one of those six gussied up Mig-35 Indian Airshow Only shiny variant Mig-34's.
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Jan 19, 2024 00:20
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mobby_6kl posted:Well you're talking things such as "command" and "support" and "coordination" which I don't believe have been unlocked on the tech tree there. Pallets haven't been unlocked either.
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Jan 19, 2024 00:27
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DiomedesGodshill posted:Pallets haven't been unlocked either. Saving their tech points to rush Tesla Towers. 
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Jan 19, 2024 01:37
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I read that the T-90 was alone, had no support. The Bradley was indeed aiming for it's optics, which it succeeded in doing. The thought is that the turret malfunctioned(it kept spinning), also the driver/tank lost control and crashed into a tree. The crew escaped out of the hatch. Afterwards the Ukrainian forces destroyed the tank. The Bradley didn't kill it, it blinded it.
Zeromus fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 02:55
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I believe that is referred to as a mission kill.
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Jan 19, 2024 03:33
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Zeromus posted:I read that the T-90 was alone, had no support. The Bradley was indeed aiming for it's optics, which it succeeded in doing. The thought is that the turret malfunctioned(it kept spinning), also the driver/tank lost control and crashed into a tree. The crew escaped out of the hatch. Afterwards the Ukrainian forces destroyed the tank. The Bradley didn't kill it, it blinded it. Malfunctioned? Or... 
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Jan 19, 2024 05:32
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Zeromus posted:The Bradley didn't kill it, it blinded it. it looked like a RPG attack where you keep hitting something till it falls over. It's just missing the hit points being knocked of before being stunned locked and getting 1000 points on the screen,
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Jan 19, 2024 05:44
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TFW you pop smoke and she keep Bushmastering
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Jan 19, 2024 06:30
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Zeromus posted:I read that the T-90 was alone, had no support. The Bradley was indeed aiming for it's optics, which it succeeded in doing. The thought is that the turret malfunctioned(it kept spinning), also the driver/tank lost control and crashed into a tree. The crew escaped out of the hatch. Afterwards the Ukrainian forces destroyed the tank. The Bradley didn't kill it, it blinded it. The fact that a Bradley disabled a T-90 and caused wobble to the turret that it's axis control was lost shouldn't loving happen. The Bradley did get some rather lucky shots but I think this is overall very telling of Russian manufacturing of these tanks. They are literally built like poo poo. These parts have to be rugged and durable especially with kinetics being a big factor in their continued operation. They are probably export models.
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Jan 19, 2024 06:53
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a possibility of what happened with the t-90 was the auto threat thing got hosed up and started spinning the turret all over https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqM_LGOyugs or it could have just been russian things who knows
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Jan 19, 2024 07:08
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Having one of your best tanks neutralized by an IFV's autocannon: #justrussianthings
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Jan 19, 2024 07:31
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Kyiv in 3 days baby
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Jan 19, 2024 07:33
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evergreen
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Jan 19, 2024 08:44
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thread on the decline in number of scientific publications and the flight of scientists from Russiaquote:1/ At least 2,500 scientists are reported to have left Russia since the start of the war in Ukraine in February 2022 and the number of published scientific papers has collapsed. This comes as the result of isolation due to sanctions, visa restrictions and state paranoia. who needs scientists and research when all you need is meat for drones, recycled Soviet technology (which always was and always will be superior to weak Western technology) and dependence on imports from China another protest in Bashkortostan, this time in Ufa https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1748268287585141123
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Jan 19, 2024 10:13
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ded posted:a possibility of what happened with the t-90 was the auto threat thing got hosed up and started spinning the turret all over As others have stated the main issue isn't that something malfunctioned during combat or that said malfunction was caused by combat. It's more that the t90 didn't spot the threat and didn't fire first, way before the m2s? Why was it by itself? Why wasn't the crew aware? What's the point of a t90m? Why does it exist?
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Jan 19, 2024 10:55
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B-Rock452 posted:I swear we have been having the "why is a single tank operating alone" discussion since the start of this. Russia coms are god awful and we rarely see any coordination between groups or units. I mean we do. There are lots of videos of russian tank columns and infantry trying to break through and every video ends the same way. They get annihilated. As soon as either side starts concentrating forces in an area they get targeted by the heaviest munitions from the enemy. Traditional tactics that all keyboard generals (and real generals) think is key, have been proven worthless in the Ukraine war. Spread out tanks with infantry support end up getting turned to scrap and slurry by FPV drones and cluster munitions, because there is zero counter to these things. There are amazing videos of like 6 russian tanks getting annihilated in a minute by mines, drones, javelins etc. Same goes for Ukraine. There is no "smart" or "safe" way of trying to break through the front right now which is why the war is a standstill with both sides throwing drones and artillery at eachother while hunkering down in trenches Both sides are also extremely pressed for both personel and vehicles, which is why you see lonely tanks prodding certain areas by themselves. Ukraine does this all the time, too, especially when infantry on the ground need fire support. If you only have a couple of dozen tanks in action at the moment you need to spread them across the (huge) front and can't always afford huge tank columns and combined arms etc. Collapsing Farts fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 11:14
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Unless you are trying to exploit a breakthrough, tanks and IFV should be behind your infantry, not in front. And we know both sides usually do so. Javelin kills are way down because Russia usually keeps tanks out of Javelin range. That makes these videos of armour knife fights so weird. Dwesa posted:thread on the decline in number of scientific publications and the flight of scientists from Russia We have standing orders that, while the start of new cooperation is banned, we should help Russian scientists leave the country. I'm not surprised that Russia would crack down on scientists, they are all well-connected internationally and usually are more loyal to science than nation… Antigravitas fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 12:05
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Dwesa posted:thread on the decline in number of scientific publications and the flight of scientists from Russia Speaking from the perspective of a former academic in computer science with a couple of publications under my belt and a short career as a doctoral student, this is ... well, not a shame, really. Let me explain. For as long as I've been in academia, Russia has been a double edged sword. On the one hand, they've had some EXCELLENT researchers in mathematics and computer science, and some absolutely brilliant people have come from Russia and the former Soviet Union. On the other hand, they've also had a streak of publishing some absolute loving horse poo poo that doesn't pass even a cursory glance, because it's not real science, it's some completely idiotic propaganda poo poo formed roughly in the shape of a peer reviewed study. Except the "peers" are also all propaganda guys from some made up Vladimir Putin Institute of Hating on the Gays and Being Masculine. Over these past years the ratio has shifted a LOT towards option B. But the reason it's not a shame in the big sense is that those brilliant academics didn't disappear from the world (well, at least most of them -- you never know with Vlad's Russia), they just moved somewhere else to continue their work and probably both enjoy a better quality of life, and others get to benefit from their knowledge and research. But of course this is a shame for the Russian academics who can't get out, but want to publish actual scientific work, because much like every paper coming out of China, their work is immediately looked at suspiciously because so many of their fellow "academics" are just publishing the most hosed up poo poo anyone's ever seen. My heart goes out to them, truly, just like it does to every other Russian who is innocently caught in Uncle Vlad's lovely Ride. And of course it sucks for Russia in the bigger sense in that after Vlad fucks off, it's gonna be hard for the country to come back from this. They've lost so many important people who aren't likely to return, either because they don't want to risk Vlad II, or because they're dead.
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Jan 19, 2024 12:34
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Yup, the Gleichschaltung of science is basically a death knell to getting any proper research done. The metrics you are measured by as a scientist are already hosed up as gently caress, but at least some genuine science is still happening. Replace those metrics with a measure of how aligned the conclusion is with state propaganda and you get absolute garbage. For reference, German science has still not recovered from the damage the Nazis and conservatives did.
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Jan 19, 2024 12:46
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Was what I learned as a child true, that the Soviet Union had some pretty big names in the field of medicine, too?
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Jan 19, 2024 12:48
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Antigravitas posted:Yup, the Gleichschaltung of science is basically a death knell to getting any proper research done. The metrics you are measured by as a scientist are already hosed up as gently caress, but at least some genuine science is still happening. Replace those metrics with a measure of how aligned the conclusion is with state propaganda and you get absolute garbage. Package for you here from a T.M. Klapötke, sir.
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Jan 19, 2024 13:32
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Was what I learned as a child true, that the Soviet Union had some pretty big names in the field of medicine, too? They were ground breakers in the study & usage of Phages (an alternative to antibiotics) back in the day, no idea what they're up to currently. 
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Jan 19, 2024 13:48
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Pretty sure I can't order explosives without filling out a form. Return to sender.
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Jan 19, 2024 13:52
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Just Another Lurker posted:They were ground breakers in the study & usage of Phages (an alternative to antibiotics) back in the day, no idea what they're up to currently. Lots of coprophaging happening, at least.
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Jan 19, 2024 13:53
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