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Eclipse12 posted:Come to think of it, I don't know who or what is being Gathered, either. Real estate. Look at all this Land I own!
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Jan 19, 2024 04:32
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Heath posted:I've never had an opinion on YGO prior to this thread but I think I hate it now? I’ve really enjoyed all the yugioh posting in this thread. It seems like a wild and funny game.
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Jan 19, 2024 04:35
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Is Yugioh one of those things where the actual card game is called Duel Monsters and Yugioh is the show? Or is Duel Monsters the fictional name for the card game Yugioh in the show Yugioh? The latter. My favorite instance of this was Duel Masters, which was the name of the anime and in the anime they called the card game Kaijudo. Then the game failed in the west, but continued to be popular in Japan, so in the twenty-tens they relaunched the game, rebranded to Kaijudo. Eclipse12 posted:I thought Yugioh was the weird kid with the hair. It's not? The main character of OG Yu-gi-oh is a teen named Yugi Moto. He is sometimes inhabited by the spirit of an ancient egyptian pharaoh named Atem, and pharaoh-possessed Yugi is referred to as Yami Yugi (literally "Dark Yugi"). In the original run of the manga he killed multiple people! And now it's a children's card game where there's a whole archetype that's just a mash up of The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars, for some reason.
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Jan 19, 2024 04:49
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Eclipse12 posted:I wasn't playing during this block - why did Magic have mana symbols in greyscale during Kamigawa? I think that was also around the time they changed artifact cards from brown to grey, and for a while it was virtually impossible to tell white and artifact cards apart at a glance. They pretty quickly made them more visually distinct, but I still think it was a mistake and artifacts should be brown.
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Jan 19, 2024 04:57
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:And now it's a children's card game where there's a whole archetype that's just a mash up of The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars, for some reason. I will not hear the good name of the archetype that gave us Darth Vader and The Wicked Witch of the West's bastard lovechild besmirched in this manner.  I have no idea if Kozmo is actually any good, I just want to see an actual mash-up of Star Wars and Wizard of Oz now. Honestly, there are a lot of neat ideas and storylines in the cards themselves, it's just a shame I don't think any of them come up in any media outside of the cards.
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Jan 19, 2024 05:04
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Eclipse12 posted:Come to think of it, I don't know who or what is being Gathered, either. ooooh oooh i know this one magic: the gathering was just the intended name for the game during the first several sets, the game was supposed to be renamed "magic: ice age" when the ice age set released, and the game would continually evolve sort of similar to how blocks work now. basically "the gathering" was meant to be the introductory period of the game. but players hated playing decks with mixed cardbacks and there wasn't a giant cheap card sleeve industry yet to take advantage of so the idea died
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Jan 19, 2024 05:58
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Feels Villeneuve posted:my favorite terrible flavor on a card is this PYF: toxic TCG cards: you must destroy this baby
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Jan 19, 2024 06:00
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Is Yugioh one of those things where the actual card game is called Duel Monsters and Yugioh is the show? Or is Duel Monsters the fictional name for the card game Yugioh in the show Yugioh? in Japan YGO is kind of the overarching franchise name and the card game is YGO: Duel Monsters (which is oddly similar to Duel Masters but I guess the copyright guys were fine with it). It's just "YGO" here. Also it translates to "King of Games" which is an incredible title for your TCG with 15000 cards and incomprehensible rules
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Jan 19, 2024 06:04
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Feels Villeneuve posted:in Japan YGO is kind of the overarching franchise name and the card game is YGO: Duel Monsters (which is oddly similar to Duel Masters but I guess the copyright guys were fine with it). It's just "YGO" here. Budweiser calls itself King of Beers and it's undrinkable swill, down with the monarchy !
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Jan 19, 2024 06:06
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Rockman Reserve posted:ooooh oooh i know this one Additionally, it was conceptualized that Magic would be the first in a series of card games called Deckmaster. They did make a few more Deckmaster card games but ultimately abandoned the idea decades ago. So if you’ve ever wondered why Magic cards have “DECKMASTER” written on the back, that’s why.
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Jan 19, 2024 06:49
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Rockman Reserve posted:ooooh oooh i know this one They even designed a different cardback for the Arabian Nights expansion which was still being considered for use late enough that it appears on the booster boxes.
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Jan 19, 2024 06:58
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Lone Goat posted:PYF: toxic TCG cards: you must destroy this baby
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Jan 19, 2024 07:15
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Randalor posted:I will not hear the good name of the archetype that gave us Darth Vader and The Wicked Witch of the West's bastard lovechild besmirched in this manner. i love this
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Jan 19, 2024 09:10
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:
There ain't no way that kids play a game that incomprehensible. Anecdotal proof: I work in a midwestern junior high/middle school and have seen kids playing Magic, Pokémon, and even DnD, but I can't recall ever seeing YGO.
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Jan 19, 2024 12:02
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It was popular with kids when it was new and I suspect most of the people playing it now were playing it back then. The cards were weird but wacky, everyone knew the rules from the show, and there was a TON of cheap fakes floating around.
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Jan 19, 2024 12:10
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 This card is currently a massive issue, in the TCG (basically, western) version of Yu-Gi-Oh specifically. As a quick refresh, there's a distinction between the TCG, which is most of the western world, and the OCG, which is Japan. Both have their own release schedule and banlist, with the OCG generally being a few months ahead of the TCG. Bonfire is a card that was only used once in an anime episode almost twenty years ago. When it was released in Japan in June of last year, it actually had two printings within the same set - a Super Rare, which is fairly accessible, for people who just need to play the card, and a Secret Rare, which is an extra super-shiny version for the collectors or people who just want to show off that they have money. And it just so happens that for basically the first time in the game's history, there's multiple meta-relevant decks that would love to be able to search a Pyro monster to start their combos. The problem is that Konami loves to upshift meta-relevant cards in rarity when bringing them to the TCG. So what's a fairly important yet accessible card in the OCG becomes a massive chase rare in the TCG. In stead of being printed as a Super and Secret Rare, it was pumped up to an Ultra Rare and a Collector's Rare. This drove the presale price up to anywhere from $80 to $120. And it started a massive debate online about the affordability of the hobby, especially since these decks that want to search Pyro monsters are already insanely expensive. So it just added another $240 on top of the already astronomically high price tag of being competitive. Of course there's also plenty of "not every hobby should be affordable, scrubs  " discourse that comes from the price of this card being needlessly inflated to sell more product. It doesn't help that the set, Maze of Millennia, is a relatively low-powered one, meaning that people probably wouldn't even be opening boxes of this set nearly as much if it wasn't for Bonfire, and another chase card, Triple Tactics Thrust: Another meta-relevant card that's printed at a much higher rarity in the west. Whereas Bonfire is a card to boost consistency, Triple Tactics Thrust is a card that punishes your opponent for interrupting your plays. And besides being another card that has had its rarity massively jacked up, it also fell victim to another thing they like to do for the TCG - short printing. Basically, the card is an Ultra Rare, yet printed at much lower rates than the other Ultra Rares in the set, thus also driving the price up. I've seen pictures of stores opening multiple cases of this set, and pulling four or five Bonfires for every Triple Tactics Thrust, thus making the reprint basically pointless for the sake of making the card more accessible.
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Jan 19, 2024 13:03
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Tiggum posted:I think that was also around the time they changed artifact cards from brown to grey, and for a while it was virtually impossible to tell white and artifact cards apart at a glance. They pretty quickly made them more visually distinct, but I still think it was a mistake and artifacts should be brown. There's also "colorless" cards, Eldrazi* being the biggest/most well-known that also aren't artifact colored. I THINK most Eldrazi have their art "bleed" out from the main art box to the edges of the card so they don't look like artifact or white cards, but yeah the "just slightly off white/light grey" choice for the artifact redesign was not good. Which also reminds me that they also redesigned the white mana symbol for...Ice Age? Not sure why. AFAIK, it's the only one that's had a change? Also, for the longest time I thought the red symbol was meant to be a scorpion tale...it's not. *Yeah, speaking of toxic, gently caress the Eldrazi. If you didn't have a deck designed to counter them, you were hosed. "Oh, here's a loving 10/10 indestructible guy that mills 10 cards. Here's a 12/12 that makes you sacrifice two permanents that then come back under your opponent's control." Their high mana cost didn't mean poo poo when plenty of other cards in the block were designed to bring them out faster. Edit: There's actually a THIRD white mana symbol that's sort of like the first two had a baby:  DrBouvenstein has a new favorite as of 15:24 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 15:22
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Jolyne Cujoh posted:The main character of OG Yu-gi-oh is a teen named Yugi Moto. He is sometimes inhabited by the spirit of an ancient egyptian pharaoh named Atem, and pharaoh-possessed Yugi is referred to as Yami Yugi (literally "Dark Yugi"). In the original run of the manga he killed multiple people! And now it's a children's card game where there's a whole archetype that's just a mash up of The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars, for some reason. wait is yugioh just a mashup of 'yugi' with 'pharaoh'
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Jan 19, 2024 15:58
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Left: kika Right: boba Middle: wuhwuh
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Jan 19, 2024 16:16
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Randalor posted:I will not hear the good name of the archetype that gave us Darth Vader and The Wicked Witch of the West's bastard lovechild besmirched in this manner. kozmo was sick and won tournaments back in it's time, I'd love to see it get modern support the other archetype introduced with Kozmo was Kaiju which also had some obvious pop culture inspirations lol 
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Jan 19, 2024 18:10
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I'm a gamecel. Girls won't datevme because I spend every waking hour talking about Yu-Gi-Oh
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Jan 19, 2024 18:36
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rodbeard posted:I'm a gamecel. Girls won't datevme because I spend every waking hour talking about Yu-Gi-Oh Get better taste in girls 
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Jan 19, 2024 18:50
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Heath posted:Left: kika I couldn't possibly have any less of an idea what these words mean.
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Jan 19, 2024 18:59
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Kaiju are even still decently relevant since they're one of the only forms of removal that gets around 99% of all protection since tributing a monster isn't something the opponent can usually stop you from doing without a few very specific exceptions. They're a big check in Yugioh's insane bucket that prevents a lot of the 'immune to everything and negates all your poo poo' boss monsters from really running rampant.
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Jan 19, 2024 19:18
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Zore posted:Kaiju are even still decently relevant since they're one of the only forms of removal that gets around 99% of all protection since tributing a monster isn't something the opponent can usually stop you from doing without a few very specific exceptions. This isn't quite true, the issue isn't that the monster is getting tributed. what happens is that in most "tribute an opponent's monster" cards, the tribute is an *activation cost*, and being immune to your opponent's card effects doesn't apply to activation costs. Nibiru tributes monsters as effect, which is why you can't out an unaffected monster with Nibiru. (if this sounds confusing, there's a reason that they formatted rush duel cards to clearly separate costs and effects)
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Jan 19, 2024 19:27
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DrBouvenstein posted:I couldn't possibly have any less of an idea what these words mean. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect
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Jan 19, 2024 19:37
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Reading about YGO feels like reading about the madness of SS13. When do we get to the cluwn and butt cards?
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Jan 19, 2024 19:43
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Reading about YGO feels like reading about the madness of SS13. When do we get to the cluwn and butt cards? Wrong game, Butz is in the Final Fantasy TCG. And in Magic next year I believe.
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Jan 19, 2024 19:48
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Reading about YGO feels like reading about the madness of SS13. When do we get to the cluwn and butt cards?  Did you say crrear end Clown?
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Jan 19, 2024 19:51
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Clown control is one of the classic examples of toxic yugioh strats, yeah. The basic idea was that you use that guy along with his counterpart dream clown to prevent your opponent from ever establishing a board while slowly beating them to death with the clowns (or with tiny burn effects). To accomplish this you would play a bunch of cards that prevented your opponent from attacking, since all monsters have haste in yugioh, like gravity bind or messenger of peace. Since there were very few ways to win in those days that didn't involve attacking at some point, it's an incredibly frustrating strategy to play against. Not even getting started on performapals
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Jan 19, 2024 23:47
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You know, MtG lead designer Mark Rosewater writes a weekly column called Making Magic and it's a wonderful look into the process of game design. One thing he reiterates often is that preventing players from actually playing their decks is decidedly Not Fun. That's why land destruction is so rare these days and why MtG only rarely has cards that completely negate an opponent from attacking, drawing, playing cards, etc. Because players hate when their opponent takes away key components of the game. Yugioh seems to really give no shits.
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Jan 19, 2024 23:55
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Eclipse12 posted:You know, MtG lead designer Mark Rosewater writes a weekly column called Making Magic and it's a wonderful look into the process of game design. Interestingly, YGO actually does care on some levels. For example, targeted hand disruption cards like Thoughtseize would be considered absurdly strong in YGO, but are pretty much staples in black decks in MTG.
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Jan 20, 2024 00:12
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Suleman posted:Interestingly, YGO actually does care on some levels. For example, targeted hand disruption cards like Thoughtseize would be considered absurdly strong in YGO, but are pretty much staples in black decks in MTG. That makes sense. Everything I have heard about Yu-Gi-Oh makes it sound like it’s pretty much 100% combo decks. Cards like thoughtsieze are incredibly strong against combo decks, but less so against other types of deck. Also, now seems like a good time to mention that PYF has a thread for posting TCG cards that you like. It’s named PYF MTG but you can post cards from any game there. Maybe a mod could rename it?
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Jan 20, 2024 00:32
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Ariong posted:That makes sense. Everything I have heard about Yu-Gi-Oh makes it sound like it’s pretty much 100% combo decks. Cards like thoughtsieze are incredibly strong against combo decks, but less so against other types of deck. It actually has somewhat shifted to more midrange decks with an emphasis on interaction over the last year or so. Decks like Rescue-ACE and Purrely in particular have a far less combo oriented style and more focus on control. Also I think "combo" means something completely different in YGO than MTG if I remember right, combo in YGO is more like, swarm, where you get all your poo poo on the field for an OTK with zero emphasis on followup or resource recovery
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Jan 20, 2024 04:46
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"Combo" in MTG signifies you're putting together a "combination" of cards that will effectively win the game on the spot (if your opponent doesn't interact with your combo in a way that stops you doing it). Putting all your resources in yugioh into pulling off an OTK (so your opponent doesn't get a next turn at all) sounds pretty much equivalent?
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Jan 20, 2024 05:12
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A combo in Magic isn't necessarily a OTK, it's just cards that work well together and that can help move you toward a win condition. Sometimes that win condition can be that turn but not always.
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Jan 20, 2024 09:05
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Combo in Yugioh usually means using a resource loop or a chain of resource generators to either O/FTK, or build a unbreakable board/set of floodgates. Usually with little, if any, interaction with the opponent until youre done. Theyre fragile to interaction and floodgates and tend to have 0 lasting power because they burn through cards like wildfire for even standard plays. A commonly heard term is Full Combo, for when the player has hit the main trunk of the deck flowchart and is thus guaranteed their maximal possible end board. Dragon Link is the current combo deck that keeps coming back, because almost any Dragon support is Dragon Link support, and Yugioh loooooves dragons. For reference Dragon Link, at its peak, could full combo from drawing almost any dragon monster in the deck. Then they hit it with bans and its gotten more fragile, but they keep giving dragons support and strong cards tend to be dragons too so it shambles on. Rigged Death Trap has a new favorite as of 10:50 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 10:38
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Feels Villeneuve posted:This isn't quite true, the issue isn't that the monster is getting tributed. The idea of having a "cost" that is beneficial for you and harmful to the opponent is stretching language to its limit.
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Jan 20, 2024 15:39
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there are a few beneficial "costs", though these are mostly deck synergies, like cards which send to GY/mill for cost, cards which discard from hand for cost + monsters which have effects when discarded, or ones which pay LP for certain decks that have effects when you have lower LP than your opponent like Dinomorphia or Gold Pride. Removal For Cost is just like, the big red emergency button in terms of removing monsters with "unaffected by card effect" protection. The worst/funniest part is that negating the card is actually worse than not negating it, because usually removal-for-cost gives you a big beatstick that you can use for material, but negating the card doesn't refund cost, it just stops the effect, meaning you lose your monster and get nothing. One thing that did happen in response to this is that big boss monsters more often have an effect that triggers when it leaves the field because of an "opponent's card", versus an "opponent's card effect". The former triggers if it's removed for cost, the latter doesn't. (the former also includes battle, which means you can trigger it yourself by crashing the monster and destroying it by battle intentionally) Mirrorjade is probably the best example of this (and I think Mirrorjade is a really well designed card too, so there's that) 
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Jan 20, 2024 18:28
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Forum accident posted:A combo in Magic isn't necessarily a OTK, it's just cards that work well together and that can help move you toward a win condition. Sometimes that win condition can be that turn but not always. People may casually refer to cards combo'ing well together to mean they have synergy, but when something as described as a combo deck or someing is combo'ing off, it's in reference assembling a combination of cards that either wins on the spot or immediately creates a game state that is unwinnable for most opponents. An assembly of complementary parts that interact with each other to accrue incremental advantages that eventually overwhelm or exhaust their opponent is more specifically called an engine.
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Jan 20, 2024 19:09
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