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omnibobb posted:Also also, since y’all have been talking DD, I went to read Bendis’s run and accidentally read Kevin Smiths. Absolute garbage. Even at the time I don't know if it was so much well regarded as 'wow! A BIG MOVIE* person is doing a comic!' It's way wordy, the twist is it's not even a Daredevil villain and kills Karen so Daredevil can have character growth. *Relatively speaking.
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Jan 19, 2024 20:19
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Side note, kind of impressive that she's stayed dead, pretty rare for big characters at Marvel. Especially since the character is on a show. Speaking of, it sounds like Kraven's story since he returned is pretty nuts. Also, they never kill who I want. (Kill Kingpin please, give us 15 years where he's dead. That would be really refreshing. Not that I don't like the guy, just sometimes dead is better.) I wonder if there's a tally site somewhere for longest death streaks going at Marvel. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 20:40
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Dawgstar posted:Even at the time I don't know if it was so much well regarded as 'wow! A BIG MOVIE* person is doing a comic!' It's way wordy, the twist is it's not even a Daredevil villain and kills Karen so Daredevil can have character growth. After I finished it, I went and was doing the dishes and facetiming with my girlfriend and just couldn't stop telling her how dumb it was. I've been having depression issues and have been feeling better over the last days and I told her that it was so much trauma grief that I might sympathy spiral with Matt.
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Jan 19, 2024 20:51
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Heavy Metal posted:Side note, kind of impressive that she's stayed dead, pretty rare for big characters at Marvel. Especially since the character is on a show. Similarly if you buy that Harry Osborn really died in Spectacular Spider-Man #200 (January 1993) and his apparent return in 2007's Brand New Day was an evil clone created by an AI version of Harry controlled by his illegitimate half-brother/clone, then he's been dead for thirty years now. Except from 2007 to 2022, he was canonically back from the dead. Off the top of my head, in terms of prominent characters who no foolin' died and no foolin' came back (publication dates of their death and return) - 46 Years, 5 Months: Thunderbird (July 1975 to December 2021) - 40 Years, 10 Months: Bucky Barnes (January 1964 to November 2004) - 32 Years, 1 Month: Destiny (September 1989 to October 2021) - 25 Years: Karen Page (January 1999 to present) - 23 Years, 6 Months: Norman Osborn (April 1973 to December 1996) - 22 Years, 10 Months: Kraven the Hunter (August 1987 to June 2010) - 22 Years, 2 Months: Cypher: ( to October 1987 to December 2009) - 18 Years, 8 Months: Moira MacTaggart (November 2000 to July 2019) - 14 Years: Jean Grey (December 2003 to December 2017) - 13 Years, 3 Months: Adam Warlock (September 1977 to December 1990) - 12 Years, 4 Months: Thanos (September 1977 to January 1990) There are a bunch of X-Men characters who have come back during the Krakoa era that were dead for a long time besides Thunderbird but I think he's the longest dead one. I added Destiny and Moira to the list too since they're pretty important Krakoan figures. I'm sure I am forgetting some folks but off the top of my head these are the big ones who were canonically dead for over a decade, though no matter how you slice it Harry Osborn and Gwen Stacy were dead for 10+ years, as was Mar-Vell. Most of the other big deaths (like Jean Grey's first death) were probably shorter than you think, and if you really start digging the list would also include like everyone killed by Scourge in the mid-1980s who got resurrected 25-30 years later in Rick Remender's Punisher. I'm also not including characters who were never regularly appearing characters, either because they died before their first appearance or were introduced to die in their introductory arc: folks like Ben Parker, Frank Castle's family, Battlin' Jack Murdock, etc. Though many/all of these people have also been resurrected in one for or another temporarily. It would be a more involve but fun project to go through the old Marvel Universe Book of the Dead editions to see how many people from those issues are alive again.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:13
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That's good stuff, thanks! Ben Reilly may have been dead over 10 years too. Darkhawk (Chris Powell) has been dead for 3 years I guess... If nobody stays dead, we can only hope this applies to Darkhawk (Chris Powell). Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 22:58
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Heavy Metal posted:Looks like Denny O'Neil wrote the main tragic thing that happened, haven't read that one. But I know it's out on a limb saying a hard boiled vigilante is a cool good guy, he seems like he tried hard. I am talking about the gaslighting her to accept his marriage proposal
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Jan 19, 2024 23:27
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Edge & Christian posted:- 25 Years: Karen Page (January 1999 to present) Oh wow, I haven't followed much Marvel or DC stuff in a while but I totally assumed that this would've been undone already
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Jan 19, 2024 23:40
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bobkatt013 posted:I am talking about the gaslighting her to accept his marriage proposal Gotcha. Speaking of characters who've been dead for a long time, Heather could be near the top of that list. (I also haven't finished the Miller run yet. And I've been reading the Claremont X-Men run for like 15 years) Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 00:01
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rantmo posted:I hope Ryan North's run on Fantastic Four lasts at least another 10 years. It's not as bombastic as some runs, but reading it just feels cozy in a way I really enjoy. I love that no one looks completely stupid next to Reed or Val, everyone is the best version of intelligent for the person that they are.
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Jan 20, 2024 04:14
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Snackmar posted:Oh wow, I haven't followed much Marvel or DC stuff in a while but I totally assumed that this would've been undone already I don’t think there’s really a good way to do it. She died from an illness in a relatively everyday way, and was a supporting character to someone mostly unconnected to mystical or super science stuff. And even if they had the means, I doubt any of Matt’s bad guys would care enough to do it to mess with him. Next month: The Hand bring Karen back as a cyborg ninja!
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Jan 20, 2024 13:31
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Sentinel Red posted:I don’t think there’s really a good way to do it. She died from an illness in a relatively everyday way, and was a supporting character to someone mostly unconnected to mystical or super science stuff. And even if they had the means, I doubt any of Matt’s bad guys would care enough to do it to mess with him. Well, she did have AIDS but Karen was killed taking a billy club through the heart thrown by Bullseye which is pretty everyday for Marvel.
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Jan 20, 2024 13:47
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Dawgstar posted:Well, she did have AIDS but Karen was killed taking a billy club through the heart thrown by Bullseye which is pretty everyday for Marvel. So she died from the combination of those two health problems?
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Jan 20, 2024 15:25
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For some reason this discussion has jogged my memory of one of the few times I remember being really pissed about having bought a comic and feeling ripped off. In the mid 00s they did a run of What Ifs and one was "What If Karen survived" and the premise was basically if she'd survived, Matt would have reacted much more brutally because he'd seen how close he could come to losing her, he kills Kingpin and then turns himself in and goes to jail for longer than any criminal in the Marvel universe has ever actually gone to jail and then Karen dies anyway. The issue with it was, is they have a sort of running meta discussion from the perspective of two dudes in a bar, one of whom is trying to convince the other that Karen Page almost dying would tick Matt Murdock off more than her actually dying and so it's an interesting premise for a What If style story. I haven't read this story since it came out but I feel like I remember this discussion taking up at least a third or thereabouts of the comic. The one who is trying to convince the other is drawn to look like Bendis who also wrote the goddamn comic so it basically felt like he'd used up loads of the comic in a time when they were 22 pages backing up the idea that this was a good idea for a What If at all and the guy he's trying to convince in the bar whose like "that's dumb, it doesn't make any sense?" is 100% right and the surrogate for the audience/someone who said that to him when he came up with the idea. There were alot of questionable What If's around then actually, I remember one that made Bucky Barnes a Klansman leader, the White Skull. Villains becoming heroes and vice versa is obviously a feature of them but usually not quite to that degree I'd say. thebardyspoon fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 15:31
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cant cook creole bream posted:So she died from the combination of those two health problems? It was mostly the billy club. Smith did like giving characters AIDS, though. Or at least it's weird it happened twice.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:02
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getting aids is simply a natural result of his writing
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Jan 20, 2024 17:03
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She also never had AIDS, as that was just part of the plot by Mysterio Also if the second one is Mia that was not Kevin Smith but Judd Winick, but he did make her a child prostitute
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Jan 20, 2024 17:34
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Dawgstar posted:Well, she did have AIDS but Karen was killed taking a billy club through the heart thrown by Bullseye which is pretty everyday for Marvel. Hah, oh poo poo he killed her? For some reason I had it in my head she died from AIDS, I don't remember anything about Bullseye at all. I concede the point! bobkatt013 posted:She also never had AIDS, as that was just part of the plot by Mysterio wtf
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Jan 20, 2024 17:51
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Sentinel Red posted:Hah, oh poo poo he killed her? For some reason I had it in my head she died from AIDS, I don't remember anything about Bullseye at all. Yeah, Smith's thing as I recall was he realized that Daredevil does not have the deepest villain bench and wanted to avoid using Kingpin and other well-trod ground and... still had Bullseye kill one of Matt's exes. And then it was Mysterio. But hey, Movie Guy Writes Comics! Eh? Eh?
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Jan 20, 2024 18:10
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He does a good podcast, gotta give him that. Maybe he'll do a comedy Daredevil podcast one day. (And I still love his old movies, and the Clerks cartoon)
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Jan 20, 2024 18:46
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, Smith's thing as I recall was he realized that Daredevil does not have the deepest villain bench and wanted to avoid using Kingpin and other well-trod ground and... still had Bullseye kill one of Matt's exes. And then it was Mysterio. But hey, Movie Guy Writes Comics! Eh? Eh? It was a lovely mix of born again, kravens last hunt, and Frank Miller’s first run
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Jan 20, 2024 19:03
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, Smith's thing as I recall was he realized that Daredevil does not have the deepest villain bench and wanted to avoid using Kingpin and other well-trod ground and... still had Bullseye kill one of Matt's exes. And then it was Mysterio. But hey, Movie Guy Writes Comics! Eh? Eh? It's a real shame that Daredevil's main villain is a Spider-Man import. I have the perfect solution for that!
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Jan 20, 2024 20:01
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why did mysterio go after a blind guy with superhuman senses instead of like, literally anyone else? he would have needed to completely reinvent all of his technology to work on a single dude.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:10
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:why did mysterio go after a blind guy with superhuman senses instead of like, literally anyone else? he would have needed to completely reinvent all of his technology to work on a single dude. You could ask the same thing but about why he even continues to menace his main enemy who also has cut-through-your-bullshit senses.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:15
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Lobok posted:You could ask the same thing but about why he even continues to menace his main enemy who also has cut-through-your-bullshit senses. Last I saw he was a semi-legit movie person in that pretty fun Mary Jane mini. And let's be honest compared to a lot of people working in movies today Mysterio wouldn't even crack the top ten of evil.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:22
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:why did mysterio go after a blind guy with superhuman senses instead of like, literally anyone else? he would have needed to completely reinvent all of his technology to work on a single dude. Mysterio found out that the current Spider-Man was a clone and didn't see any point in beating a carbon copy so decided to take out Daredevil because he thought he had his greatest scheme ever and wanted a big win before brain cancer took him. Of course as said this is all just pastiches of previous and better comic stories and Mysterio even points out 'hey this is just like Kraven' before unaliving himself so you can't say anything because Smith already knows.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:29
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And apparently both Kraven and Mysterio returned in The Gauntlet. I gotta read that sometime. Been meaning to dip into some standout issues of the Brand New Day "brain trust" writers era and try some Slott stuff.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:32
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The death of Karen Page gave Daredevil: Yellow a framing device at least. And I still think Quesada’s cover to issue 1 is iconic for its era. That and the cover for New X-Men #114 send me back in time.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:32
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Heavy Metal posted:And apparently both Kraven and Mysterio returned in The Gauntlet. I gotta read that sometime. Been meaning to dip into some standout issues of the Brand New Day "brain trust" writers era and try some Slott stuff. Isn't that the one where the Lizard eats his son?
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Jan 20, 2024 20:34
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I've heard about that a good bit (as a recurring joke on the War Rocket Ajax podcast), Zeb seems like a wild one from day one.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:36
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Open Marriage Night posted:The death of Karen Page gave Daredevil: Yellow a framing device at least. And I still think Quesada’s cover to issue 1 is iconic for its era. That and the cover for New X-Men #114 send me back in time. The after effects also are part of bendis run of him dealing with the grief in surprise unhealthy ways
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Jan 20, 2024 23:22
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Dawgstar posted:Mysterio found out that the current Spider-Man was a clone and didn't see any point in beating a carbon copy
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Jan 21, 2024 08:32
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DMorbid posted:Of course, this would've been after said carbon copy had already beaten Mysterio and shut down MysteryVision, his mind control TV channel. But sure, Quentin, we'll go with that. I forgot, there were actually some fun Spidey Stories when Ben Reilly was the only Spider-Man.
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Jan 21, 2024 08:39
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DMorbid posted:Of course, this would've been after said carbon copy had already beaten Mysterio and shut down MysteryVision, his mind control TV channel. But sure, Quentin, we'll go with that. Well you can hardly expect the man who wrote Mallrats to read other comics!
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Jan 21, 2024 14:40
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I've listened to a lot of Smith pods, and it is mentioned that Jay's favorite comics were Deathstroke and Foolkiller. Pretty badass. Kev has mentioned liking stuff like Grimjack and Sandman, and how Walt Flanagan handing him Dark Knight Returns when they both worked at a youth center is what got him back into comics hardcore. Walt Flanagan and Dave Wyndorf of Monster Magnet have an awesome podcast where they geek out about old comics and music called Third Eye Radio, on the Tell Em Steve-Dave Patreon. They're big fans of all the psychedelic 70s and 80s stuff, Conan, Camelot 3000, Dreadstar all that stuff. And classic Spidey of course. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jan 23, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 02:31
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Heavy Metal posted:I've heard about that a good bit (as a recurring joke on the War Rocket Ajax podcast), Zeb seems like a wild one from day one. Them Ajax Boys keep us up to date on Marvel Comics boy eating.
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Jan 23, 2024 05:28
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The upcoming Marvel Vampire event having two different versions is a huge bummer. Curious if this is a good R rated story that requires the violence to be toned down to hit a PG 13 rating by editorial, or a fun Vampire romp from a fun writer with salacious gore content to pump up the price. If the pages can be cut they obviously don't really matter to the story in either case. As a retailer this book went from fun heavily promoted summer event, to a huge pain to order. I suppose I will just mainly go with the more expensive R rated one and embrace the aging comic audience.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:05
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Wait what? Two different versions?
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Jan 23, 2024 19:12
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Was wondering how likely it is that the success of USM causes some changes to the spidey editorial team's decision making. Seems like people are responding very positively, with their wallets, to a happy, well-adjusted Peter in a healthy marriage with MJ.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:14
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Lord_Hambrose posted:The upcoming Marvel Vampire event having two different versions is a huge bummer. Lol
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Jan 23, 2024 19:14
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srypher posted:Was wondering how likely it is that the success of USM causes some changes to the spidey editorial team's decision making. Seems like people are responding very positively, with their wallets, to a happy, well-adjusted Peter in a healthy marriage with MJ. Not very. They will point at USM and say "you have your happy, married Peter here!"
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