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Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Madurai posted:

(My M1 carbine is one of the IBM ones!)

Nice! Mine's a common gutter Inland Division one (i.e. General Motors), but it's one of my favorite shooters.

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Madurai
Jun 26, 2012

The Lone Badger posted:

What would the vehicular equivalent of fixing bayonets be?

I think dozer blades or mine rollers are the tank bayonet equivalent.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Icon Of Sin posted:

Idk how accurate Bradley gunners are supposed to be, but from the video of the Bradleys vs a T-90…dude did not miss.

Nah, he missed a few short and long. But that's still outstanding shooting given the adrenaline surge from "oh gently caress, that's a tank".

It sounds like the TOWs (anti-armor in translation, I think) didn't work for some reason, "so I blinded it". And yeah, he deserves some leave. US doctrine in WW2 would be to send him to factories and recruitment rallies. I think he's due more time at the front before he gets rotated to training duties, but he's on the short list for that.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Bored As gently caress posted:

Pretty sure we'd have some pretty big, maybe insurmountable, bottlenecks in the supply chain for ramping up production of artillery shells and other munitions.

I feel that we'd get some really weird intermittent shortages that make no sense because of JIT Manufacturing like, a peer adversary is able to gently caress up saltpeter shipments from chilie so we can't arsenal of democracy bullets for a month.

Pine Cone Jones
Dec 6, 2009

You throw me the acorn, I throw you the whip!
Whoever pushed jit should burn in hell. Same with six sigma and all that MBA bullshit.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Pine Cone Jones posted:

Whoever pushed jit should burn in hell. Same with six sigma and all that MBA bullshit.

I got to be part of the last MBA class to suffer the cult of JIT.

I kinda wish I had gotten to see HBR writers suffer the death of shibboleths like "Inventory is sinful"

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

Pine Cone Jones posted:

Whoever pushed jit should burn in hell. Same with six sigma and all that MBA bullshit.

I live that bullshit everyday. Houthis hosed poo poo up for my job. I actually criticize management for it.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus

Wingnut Ninja posted:

People lost their poo poo over being asked to wear a mask and not go to Applebee's for a few months, I can only imagine the seething ball of incandescent rage that would be generated today by introducing rationing, mandatory recycling, limited consumer products, and everything else that they did during WWII.

i think the last time america had any sort of rationing was during the manufactured "oil crisis" in the 70s and people could only get gas on certain days

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless

Pine Cone Jones posted:

Whoever pushed jit should burn in hell. Same with six sigma and all that MBA bullshit.

Much like driving drunk or stealing your employees' wages, it's hugely advantageous as long as you don't get caught by any of the down sides. Roll those dice a few times and then hand the bag to someone else, you've got pretty good odds.

EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad
What advantage do you get by driving drunk?

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

ded posted:

i think the last time america had any sort of rationing was during the manufactured "oil crisis" in the 70s and people could only get gas on certain days

During COVID the walmart wouldn't let me buy more than four sixteen-packs of toilet paper at a time, it was tyranny :byodood:

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus

Powered Descent posted:

During COVID the walmart wouldn't let me buy more than four sixteen-packs of toilet paper at a time, it was tyranny :byodood:

oh god i forgot about the toilet paper crisis :lol:

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless

EasilyConfused posted:

What advantage do you get by driving drunk?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

ded posted:

i think the last time america had any sort of rationing was during the manufactured "oil crisis" in the 70s and people could only get gas on certain days

TIL Nixon made the national speed limit 55, not Carter.

Soul Dentist
Mar 17, 2009

EasilyConfused posted:

What advantage do you get by driving drunk?

I get to be drunk alone in my car

cult_hero
Jul 10, 2001

Powered Descent posted:

During COVID the walmart wouldn't let me buy more than four sixteen-packs of toilet paper at a time, it was tyranny :byodood:

Costco limited the big bags of rice too, but the freedom slop buckets were still available.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

The toilet paper crisis was real. I remember going to a kroger and there was only like three four packs of single ply tp left. It was dire enough that I pondered installing a *spits on ground* bidet

Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015

MH Knights posted:

So if the US/NATO got into a large scale conventional war with a peer or near-peer adversary the fighting would stop after a couple of months due to running out of ammo?

There was that bit about the US not drawing on their stocks for this war, though.

And, also, if this war is indicative of anything, it's that there are no peers to US/NATO. Russia's turned out to be a rusted paper tiger. Unless the PRC is different?

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus

Hyperlynx posted:

There was that bit about the US not drawing on their stocks for this war, though.

And, also, if this war is indicative of anything, it's that there are no peers to US/NATO. Russia's turned out to be a rusted paper tiger. Unless the PRC is different?

i do not know about the ground forces, but china has built up a respectable navy and has been putting it to use. they also have very active spy programs through physical & electronic means. they are most likely on par or better than what we thought russia might be.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Defenestrategy posted:

The toilet paper crisis was real. I remember going to a kroger and there was only like three four packs of single ply tp left. It was dire enough that I pondered installing a *spits on ground* bidet

We were fortunate enough to have purchased a Costco cube of toilet paper just before the lockdowns started. Thing lasted us for the better part of a year.

Pikehead
Dec 3, 2006

Looking for WMDs, PM if you have A+ grade stuff
Fun Shoe

Wingnut Ninja posted:

People lost their poo poo over being asked to wear a mask and not go to Applebee's for a few months, I can only imagine the seething ball of incandescent rage that would be generated today by introducing rationing, mandatory recycling, limited consumer products, and everything else that they did during WWII.

I mean, 911 gave metric loads of cover for metric assloads of spending, and that was against an opponent that wasn't a threat to the US.

The only near peer left that's credible is China, and that's due to a number of geopolitical factors (no friendly nations to base out of for land invasions) and their armed forces build up. I would think if things got hot though and somehow the conflict dragged on for months then suddenly there'd be money to build up factories and supply lines.

Drifting pretty close to Clancy chat though.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

GD_American posted:

I got to be part of the last MBA class to suffer the cult of JIT.

I kinda wish I had gotten to see HBR writers suffer the death of shibboleths like "Inventory is sinful"

But nothing could ever interrupt shipments! Nothing at all! Logistics are impregnable! Wait, what's that? I'm hearing that due to the vagaries of global capitalism, we're importing a large amount of our stock from Asia and through a very specific route that's been majorly disrupted at least twice during the last five years? Must be a fluke.

Our fuckwit top management actually "fines" departments for having too much inventory, in the most insane way. If your inventory "cost" is too high, your staffing budget gets hacked down. It's the absolutely dumbest poo poo.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019

A safety-conscious little mouse!

PurpleXVI posted:

But nothing could ever interrupt shipments! Nothing at all! Logistics are impregnable! Wait, what's that? I'm hearing that due to the vagaries of global capitalism, we're importing a large amount of our stock from Asia and through a very specific route that's been majorly disrupted at least twice during the last five years? Must be a fluke.

Our fuckwit top management actually "fines" departments for having too much inventory, in the most insane way. If your inventory "cost" is too high, your staffing budget gets hacked down. It's the absolutely dumbest poo poo.

lol, "I'm pointing this gun at my leg. You don't want me to shoot my own leg, do you?"

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.
I vaugely remember one of the reasons the soviet union's planned economy fell apart was there was not enough slack in the system causing inventory flow shortages. Then apparently capitalism decided to just do it because if you sell off all the lights in the building and leave with your severance package before it gets dark, you win.

Jasper Tin Neck
Nov 14, 2008


"Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

Ronwayne posted:

I vaugely remember one of the reasons the soviet union's planned economy fell apart was there was not enough slack in the system causing inventory flow shortages. Then apparently capitalism decided to just do it because if you sell off all the lights in the building and leave with your severance package before it gets dark, you win.

Nah, the Soviet Union was just poo poo at allocating resources to useful ends.

Reducing inactive inventory is legitimately a more efficient way to arrange production, much like it's much more efficient to regularly go to the shop than buy a whole year's worth of food and store in a root cellar.

Like JIT, this depends on shops reliably having stuff. A reasonable business logic becomes a problem if you don't understand your MBA course material on risk management and just cargo cult it. Then you start doing dumb stuff like getting rid of the fridge and exclusively relying on doordash for sustenance.

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Pikehead posted:

The only near peer left that's credible is China, and that's due to a number of geopolitical factors (no friendly nations to base out of for land invasions) and their armed forces build up. I would think if things got hot though and somehow the conflict dragged on for months then suddenly there'd be money to build up factories and supply lines.

Drifting pretty close to Clancy chat though.

i mean hey, kyrgyzstan let us use some stuff for the war in afghanistan, maybe they'd let us invade china over that one road into kashgar, for EXTREME CLANCYCHAT

Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012

Grimey Drawer

Defenestrategy posted:

The toilet paper crisis was real. I remember going to a kroger and there was only like three four packs of single ply tp left. It was dire enough that I pondered installing a *spits on ground* bidet

I have a Japanese toilet and after more than a year of using it you start to feel uncivilized doing you business anywhere else.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:

I have a Japanese toilet and after more than a year of using it you start to feel uncivilized doing you business anywhere else.

Like, luxury heated seats that talks to you before giving a complimentary butthole squirt and massage when you're done, or hole-in-the-ground-with-two-footpads?

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011

bird food bathtub posted:

Like, luxury heated seats that talks to you before giving a complimentary butthole squirt and massage when you're done, or hole-in-the-ground-with-two-footpads?

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.

Jasper Tin Neck posted:

Nah, the Soviet Union was just poo poo at allocating resources to useful ends.

Reducing inactive inventory is legitimately a more efficient way to arrange production, much like it's much more efficient to regularly go to the shop than buy a whole year's worth of food and store in a root cellar.

Like JIT, this depends on shops reliably having stuff. A reasonable business logic becomes a problem if you don't understand your MBA course material on risk management and just cargo cult it. Then you start doing dumb stuff like getting rid of the fridge and exclusively relying on doordash for sustenance.

I don't know, given the state of the world, I'd assume more major disruptions and upgrading to a chest freezer in addition to the fridge, in the metaphor, because global supply chains can get disrupted easily. At what point of general chaos is it better to rely on multiple redundancies rather than efficiency? You'd want warehoused goods in stock because all of a sudden ships are no longer coming for the next week/month/months, or whatever.

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.
The value of JIT inventory management relates to the product that your business is dealing with. As far as the grocery analogy goes, there’s three different types of items that quickly go out of stock before a storm: sriracha, eggs, and toilet paper.

Sriracha goes out of stock because the alternatives just aren’t as nice. If you want your sauce to taste right, you don’t want to substitute anything. The specifics matter, though you can make something else if you need to.

Eggs go out of stock because everyone wants them, they go into all sorts of food, and they’re always useful. However, you don’t really care what kind of eggs you get. And there’s a variety of substitutes like bananas, tofu, or yogurt if you need them.

Toilet paper goes out of stock because doing without it sucks. Low grade toilet paper is not as good, and doing without entirely is a miserable experience.

A sriracha company can be flexible in its output - they make something else while supplies are short. An egg company can be flexible in its input - they can source different materials to make their core product. A toilet paper company needs to stock up supplies, or it risks going out of business entirely.

Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jan 20, 2024

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
Pretty good debris analysis of the KN-23/24 components found in Ukraine, showing that Russia has purchased and is using North Korean ballistic missiles in combat operations. Arms Control Wonk agrees with the analysis from Conflict Armament Research. Highlights different components, different dimensions which are harder to make out from a distant photo in flight. Jeffrey Lewis points out that it's a similar design philosophy to an Iskander, but it's different in very important ways, is a different size (larger), shaped differently, but also argues that all modern solid-fuel SRBMs kind of look the same. Lewis' argument is that laymen try to undercut Korean capabilities as not being real by making the claim that they only have these weapons because of foreign gifts/assistance. In reality, the challenge is that North Korea (and some other developers worldwide) have been building reasonably capable SRBMs on their own. In North Korea's case, this extends to their IRBM/ICBM programs as well.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/3a4e9d713f59426d9d1ea3881abecbf3

So the idea that they can only make this with Russian or Chinese assistance or design bureau input at this point is either wishful thinking or just racist and outdated. Wishful in that imagining that if only there were a better arms control regime or a deal cut with Russia/China to cut off a "rogue" nation from access, the rogue nation would stop being capable of this kind of weapons development, which is largely a false hope. Or just racist and outdated in that for years and years, a mix of laymen, political pundits and frankly some just racist dumbasses have just refused to acknowledge that maybe a country we didn't traditionally think of as a missile builder and exporter 30 years ago can use decades of earnest R&D and publicly observed test-fires research work to build up their own domestic capabilities.

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1219101/russia-buys-north-korean-missiles/

Soul Dentist
Mar 17, 2009

mlmp08 posted:

political pundits and frankly some just racist dumbasses

Looks like you accidentally repeated yourself there

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
The Soviet Union coupled poorly-informed production mandates with systems of accountability that prioritized appearing to adhere to the mandates over actually producing quality output. Say factory manager Ivan and factory manager Dmitri receive the same mandate for 50,000 widgets. Ivan, a true believer in Soviet promise of a better future, valiantly struggles to obtain the quality inputs and skilled engineers his factory needs to meet the request. Dmitri, a cynical apparatchik, lazily goes about schmoozing with those who will assess his output, then does the bare minimum to deliver what might, at a glance, be taken for widgets. Dmitri delivers 50,000 widgets completely unworthy of the name, barely able to fulfill their role more than a few dozen times within acceptable error boundaries. Ivan, facing great difficulty navigating the Dmitris up his own supply chain or finding engineers worth their degrees, ultimately delivers only 30,000 widgets, but of satisfactory quality.

Dmitri gets lauded by the party and Ivan gets sent to a post office in Siberia. Repeat for a few decades and you end up with an utterly moribund economy fundamentally incapable of satisfying the basic needs of its people.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Ronwayne posted:

I don't know, given the state of the world, I'd assume more major disruptions and upgrading to a chest freezer in addition to the fridge, in the metaphor, because global supply chains can get disrupted easily. At what point of general chaos is it better to rely on multiple redundancies rather than efficiency? You'd want warehoused goods in stock because all of a sudden ships are no longer coming for the next week/month/months, or whatever.

Realistically you should be depending on models built by your IMEs, and those models have gotten very good even accounting for COVID. Theres always going to be a push pull between efficiency and flexibility. Even Deming argued for single source suppliers to build trust, efficiency and reliability. Its really loving complicated.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Cugel the Clever posted:

Dmitri gets lauded by the party and Ivan gets sent to a post office in Siberia. Repeat for a few decades and you end up with an utterly moribund economy fundamentally incapable of satisfying the basic needs of its people.

oh drat thats wild. I hope they're ok...

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Reading up on the USSR's economy in the 1930s, particularly the first five year plan, is pretty eye opening with respect to how off the rails Trotsky and Stalin had gone.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

A.o.D. posted:

They'd be a lot more compliant if you wrapped it in jingoism and naked racism.

They'd also be orders of magnitude more compliant if outliers were being imprisoned after very brief , very publicized rubber-stamp show trials.

If your economy is on a total-war footing you're likely fighting for your life, or trying your hardest to cash in on someone who is. Either way, anyone getting in the way is going to get a massive government curb-stomping.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Dandywalken posted:

oh drat thats wild. I hope they're ok...
Sadly not. Ivan died of tuberculosis and alcoholism and Dmitri, though perfectly positioned to capitalize on the wild West, late-Soviet privatization of the economy, was fairly unimaginative old guard and got blown away by a car bomb from a competitor more in tune with the spirit of the time. :sadwave:

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PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Cugel the Clever posted:

systems of accountability that prioritized appearing to adhere to the mandates over actually producing quality output.

Ah, yes, good thing we dodged anything like numbers-based success metrics in our successful capitalist society that lead to perverted incentives that undermine the entire enterprise they're supposed to be supporting... oh wait, what's that... oh no...

Also read Normal Accidents by Perrow, it's pretty good insight into why so many enterprises are utterly hosed in execution and hugely vulnerable to even minor disruption.

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