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The Hugos should be put to rest
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Jan 20, 2024 19:32
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my bony fealty posted:The Hugos should be put to rest Yup. The idea that fandom is confined by attendance at a (quite expensive) convention is decades out of date. It has been noted that two of the disqualified, Xiran Jay Zhao (Iron Widow) and R F Kuang(Babel), are Chinese expatriates, brought to Canada and the US as children.
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Jan 20, 2024 19:50
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Which might be an issue when you decide to do your convention in China, I guess.
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Jan 20, 2024 19:55
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This feels meaningfully different and tbh a good bit more serious than the usual run of Hugo nonsense but yeah, hard to disagree. Babel’s potential contentiousness and then weird absence was noted even at the time.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:03
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The Hugos are a shoddily-managed popularity contest, but I'm not sure that means they shouldn't exist. I think it's probably useful to have a good mix of judged and voted awards, and having a barrier to entry on voting membership (which is £45 for 2024, I think?) is important to stop it from becoming The Goodreads People's Choice awards. I do think that WSFS needs an overhaul and the lack of continuity and institutional knowledge between each individual WorldCon is a weird libertarian holdover from the early days of SFF fandom that makes no goddamn sense in 2024, though. I was involved in the 2020 WorldCon, and even before COVID derailed it all, everything was a mess. Edit: All of that is besides the point of "This news is very hosed up". cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 20:06
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Well, this is all hosed up. Lots of people predicted there'd be interference with the results, but I didn't think it'd be this cack-handed. I feel sorry for Chinese fans, and I bet it means we're going to have more nice safe North American Worldcons in the future. Something I haven't seen anyone else mention is that according to the nomination stats, Babel got the same number of points in each round. If I'm reading it correctly, that means nobody who voted for anything lower down the list voted for Babel... (The same is true for Residual Light, but that got a lot fewer votes so is less likely). Also, Elric got more votes for Best Series than Mistborn? Arsenic Lupin posted:Yup. The idea that fandom is confined by attendance at a (quite expensive) convention is decades out of date. Hugo voting rights are tied to membership, not attendance.
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Jan 20, 2024 21:33
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Censorship? In my China?
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Jan 20, 2024 21:39
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Safety Biscuits posted:I didn't think it'd be this cack-handed. My friend, have you seen China? Their government does not give a shiiiiiit about appearing heavy-handed, they’re literally genociding as we speak and nobody has the balls to stop them, censoring a book award isn’t going to give them a moment’s pause. sebmojo posted:Censorship? In my China? Who could possibly have foreseen this???
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Jan 20, 2024 22:10
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It's still wild they basically built an entire building to host world con. China (or at least the regional authority) treated it on the level of a World's Fair Hilarious to see some of the reports from all these old shabby sci-fi con vets contrasted with the polish and excess of that convention itself
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Jan 20, 2024 22:18
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Kestral posted:My friend, have you seen China? Their government does not give a shiiiiiit about appearing heavy-handed, they’re literally genociding as we speak and nobody has the balls to stop them, censoring a book award isn’t going to give them a moment’s pause. My "friend", the whole point of a PR exercise like this is that you care what other people think of you. It would have been so easy and cheap to buy a few thousand supporting memberships and tell them how to vote. But no, they did it in the bluntest and stupidest way possible, totally screwing up the whole thing. cptn_dr posted:I do think that WSFS needs an overhaul and the lack of continuity and institutional knowledge between each individual WorldCon is a weird libertarian holdover from the early days of SFF fandom that makes no goddamn sense in 2024, though. I was involved in the 2020 WorldCon, and even before COVID derailed it all, everything was a mess. I expect big amendments to Hugo processes next year; at a minimum, that cons explain major decisions such as exclusions when nominees are announced, and perhaps as big as decoupling Worldcons from the Hugos. In this case, there's technically no responsible body even to answer peoples' questions.
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Jan 21, 2024 02:05
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If you've ever attended a WorldCon you know what a shoddily stiched together affair they are at the best of times. Seems kind of weird to assume The People's Republic of China had nefarious designs on the award.
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Jan 21, 2024 02:24
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Welp, the voting for the Hugo Awards 2023 seems to have been counted in a very odd way. Many prominent nominees were declared ineligible, but this was not declared openly, nor were the nominees notified. This includes: Meanwhile I'm into Traitor Baru Cormorant and its much more fantasy than the SciFi I was expecting--not complaining, happy to have basically kept myself ignorant of the content of the book (other than its frequent praise heaped here). I'm guessing this could also be considered "competence porn?" Story wise it is carrying me along easily enough. Have vibes of City of Illusions so far IMO
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Jan 21, 2024 02:31
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Safety Biscuits posted:Hugo voting rights are tied to membership, not attendance. I get that the Hugo Awards are for and of convention-going fandom. I feel, however, that convention-going fandom is culturally irrelevant. It now turns out that the math is wrong; the columns in the released tables sum to more than the number of ballots.
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Jan 21, 2024 05:33
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That $45 is probably a pretty solid price for the Hugo Voting Packet, which includes digital copies of most of the finalists, but I haven't actually done the math.Arsenic Lupin posted:I get that the Hugo Awards are for and of convention-going fandom. I feel, however, that convention-going fandom is culturally irrelevant. This is true, and the fact that arguably the most recognisable SFF awards are tied to the con-going fandom (of a con with a very specific culture) is a real problem. Especially when stuff like this happens and people come out of the woodwork to very reasonably demand answers and changes that there's not really a simple way to make happen. cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 05:46
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Welp, the voting for the Hugo Awards 2023 seems to have been counted in a very odd way. Many prominent nominees were declared ineligible, but this was not declared openly, nor were the nominees notified. This includes: legends and lattes 2nd place for best novel 
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Jan 21, 2024 06:30
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The Nebulas have consistently been better, anyway.
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Jan 21, 2024 07:40
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I'm going to start my own awards, with hookers.
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Jan 21, 2024 08:01
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As, like, a prize?
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Jan 21, 2024 08:16
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These days I have far higher expectations of the Arthur C. Clarke Award than the American ones.
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Jan 21, 2024 08:51
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The hookers will be paid to read the books and vote on them.
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Jan 21, 2024 08:55
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Safety Biscuits posted:Also, Elric got more votes for Best Series than Mistborn? I'm not seeing the problem here. The Hugos were modeled on the Oscars, where voting rights are granted to members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. The difference is that membership of the World Science Fiction Society is synonymous with membership of WorldCon, so any attendee or supporting member can vote. Academy members are given screeners of the award candidates so they can make an informed decision when they vote, and WSFS members are (last I heard, anyway) similarly given copies of as many of the Hugo nominees as publishers will permit for the same reason. If the Hugos don't work, it's because the bar to entry is lower.
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Jan 21, 2024 09:59
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thotsky posted:Seems kind of weird to assume The People's Republic of China had nefarious designs on the award. Kestral posted:they’re literally genociding as we speak and nobody has the balls to stop them, censoring a book award isn’t going to give them a moment’s pause.
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Jan 21, 2024 11:33
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you'd think seeing an actual genocide in action would give pause to xinjiang boosters
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Jan 21, 2024 12:32
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pseudorandom name posted:As, like, a prize? Futurama quote I reckon
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Jan 21, 2024 12:32
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Doktor Avalanche posted:you'd think seeing an actual genocide in action would give pause to xinjiang boosters I'm going to take this moment to recommend a short story collection called Palestine + 100: Stories from a Century after the Nakba. It's stories from different Palestinian authors all set in 2048 and imagining what the future might look like. There's a lot of variation in quality and tone, some are really depressing and some uplifting, but I'd really recommend it to anyone interested in hearing from some of those voices. Some are just vaguely sci fi and some are more explicit. Came out in 2019 and more relevant than ever now.
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Jan 21, 2024 14:28
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Ceebees posted:I'm going to go back to kicking Downbelow - I've read a good dozen Cherry books, and Downbelow is the only one I simply did not enjoy. Even apart from the uncharacteristically flat aliens, the plot is plodding and predictable. Strong recommend that you start absolutely anywhere else. sebmojo posted:Yeah, this. The Morgaine trilogy is also very good, it's fantasy but the titular character is actually a sci fi person with a laser and a cool/horrifying science black hole sword. Also, I found out recently that about a decade after the main trilogy, she wrote a fourth book, Exile's Gate -- how is that?
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Jan 21, 2024 15:12
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Doktor Avalanche posted:you'd think seeing an actual genocide in action would give pause to xinjiang boosters Currently the only bidder for the 2027 Worldcon is Tel Aviv.
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Jan 21, 2024 16:24
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Got any recommendations by Yemeni authors?
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Jan 21, 2024 16:55
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Terrible Opinions posted:Got any recommendations by Yemeni authors? I confess I don't know any Yemeni authors! I'd be curious to hear any recs, if anyone knows of any!
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Jan 21, 2024 17:09
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The Long Earth (#1) by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006O41HTO/ The Last Kingdom (#1) by Bernard Cornwell - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FC2RR2/ Dragon Keeper (Rain Wilds #1) by Robin Hobb - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00338QEUG/ Welcome to Nightvale (#1) by Joseph Fink and Jeffrey Crannor - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SRY5F8I/
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Jan 21, 2024 17:10
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my bony fealty posted:I'm going to take this moment to recommend a short story collection called Palestine + 100: Stories from a Century after the Nakba. It's stories from different Palestinian authors all set in 2048 and imagining what the future might look like. I read Iraq + 100, an older title by the same publisher and also quite good, but hadn’t seen that this came out so thanks for the heads up.
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Jan 21, 2024 17:39
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Sometimes some mid level bureaucrats in the CCP get a new pet peave until someone higher up in the food chain goes “wtf are you doing” so it’s not completely impossible,but alsoDoktor Avalanche posted:you'd think seeing an actual genocide in action would give pause to xinjiang boosters
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Jan 21, 2024 18:02
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Sometimes some mid level bureaucrats in the CCP get a new pet peave until someone higher up in the food chain goes “wtf are you doing” so it’s not completely impossible,but also That's just how restrictions on speech function in authoritarian regimes! The order doesn't have to come down from Beijing, you have any number of levels of ambitious party bureaucrats who may think that they'll impress someone by cracking down, the lines on what is and isn't allowed are left deliberately blurry so that individuals and organisations will self-censor, and yeah events that involve foreigners might also attract scrutiny from the centre.
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Jan 21, 2024 18:14
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Talking about Cherry, I wonder if I should give the foreigner series another whirl. Really liked most everything else I read, but that one just didn't vibe with me. Pity that's all she writes anymore. Or maybe not? I don't think I've read Regenesis.
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Jan 21, 2024 18:23
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genericnick posted:Talking about Cherry, I wonder if I should give the foreigner series another whirl. Really liked most everything else I read, but that one just didn't vibe with me. Pity that's all she writes anymore. Regarding Foreigner, make sure you jump past two(!) prologue side stories that her editor forced her to add to the book. You want to open with Bren getting shot at in the night by an assassin. If you still don't click with the series then, yeah, it won't change your mind the more it goes. Her most recent non-Foreigner stuff is: quote:Hammerfall (2001) Duology, haven't read these. quote:Fortress in the Eye of Time (1995) – Locus Fantasy Award nominee, 1996[16] I adore this series, it's fun fantasy. quote:Regenesis (2009) Sequel to Cyteen, but it's not really a big idea book - it's more a "hey I want to see what the characters are doing" sequel that just...sees what they're doing, and doesn't explore any of the big ideas or themes of the book. I love it regardless, but it's not Cyteen. quote:Alliance Rising (2019) (credited to C. J. Cherryh and Jane S. Fancher) – Prometheus Award winner 2020[2] Her most recent non-Foreigner stuff. Haven't read yet. Jane Fancher is her wife and I'm happy to see them writing together. 
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Jan 21, 2024 18:31
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I enjoyed Alliance Rising, but it's filling in some of the existing chronology of the universe. I'm not sure it would suck me in, if I wasn't already invested.
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Jan 21, 2024 18:39
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Pinterest Mom posted:lol yeah it's not "completely impossible" that there might be some chill on free speech in the PRC. Come on who are you trying to kid. Yeah, if university students were protesting against a genocide(that was being supported by the the state) and the university president wasn't cracking down hard enough, then there would be pressure to fire them for sure.
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Jan 21, 2024 18:49
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Doktor Avalanche posted:you'd think seeing an actual genocide in action would give pause to xinjiang boosters There can be two different forms of genocide happening on the planet simultaneously. my bony fealty posted:I'm going to take this moment to recommend a short story collection called Palestine + 100: Stories from a Century after the Nakba. It's stories from different Palestinian authors all set in 2048 and imagining what the future might look like. Thanks for this.
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Jan 21, 2024 18:52
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StrixNebulosa posted:
Could swear I've read them many years ago. Do they have swarms of terraform bugs?
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Jan 21, 2024 18:59
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VostokProgram posted:There can be two different forms of genocide happening on the planet simultaneously. there can also be a fake one invented by a german antisemitic christofascist lunatic and spread by the predictably complicit western media apparatus, conveniently resurrected in the last few weeks to counteract the public relations nightmare of the global hegemon's main ride-or-die partner being accused of genocide in international court (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 21, 2024 19:25
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