|
TeeQueue posted:Essencially, yes.
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 11:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
I know the answer is "for gameplay reasons" but why would the Protoss not build their settlements around the warp conduits so if they need to do a sudden evacuation or something, they could make use of them without needing to cross potentially hostile territory...
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 11:47
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:I know the answer is "for gameplay reasons" but why would the Protoss not build their settlements around the warp conduits so if they need to do a sudden evacuation or something, they could make use of them without needing to cross potentially hostile territory... They probably make a humming noise 24/7 that's like. Really annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 12:23
|
|
|
Living or working near, like, an airport or train station is something you maybe can "get used to" but not something you'd probably choose to do if you had a better option with no tradeoffs. So that's not too implausible. The bigger question imo is why their strategy is "keep sending civilian-packed shuttles through the Zerg blender in bits and pieces and hope for the best" rather then "send all of the shuttles, with every military escort we can possibly build in the time it takes to load them up, at one time"
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 12:29
|
|
|
Oh it's definitely for gameplay reasons, but I'm sure you could make a plausible excuse if pressed. Like, airports tend to be built away from population centers and that's mostly because they're loud as poo poo. Maybe hyperspace warps are like that, maybe they release radiation that messes with whatever the Protoss version of consumer electronics is, maybe they're just tall an ugly buildings that are aesthetically displeasing, you can think of a reason. The other question is why they only seem to work with unarmed civilian shuttles, but, again, you can imagine a reason. Maybe that's just how they happen to be specced and they could be rewired, but that would require an engineering team that cannot operate with a face full of hydralisk spines, for one. That's the kind of think I'd give a writing pass on, because it works fine without an elaboration. The writing refusing to take a consistent stance on whether Kerrigan just loves killing anything that looks at her wrong, or feels conflicted but forced into a confrontation, is more of an issue here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 12:44
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:The bigger question imo is why their strategy is "keep sending civilian-packed shuttles through the Zerg blender in bits and pieces and hope for the best" rather then "send all of the shuttles, with every military escort we can possibly build in the time it takes to load them up, at one time" The protoss barely doing anything to actually survive is just a running Thing here. Take the first Kaldir mission, where they send a piddly attack wave for the few minutes they're able to move instead of sending out all those Colossi and Void Rays they have guarding the last spire.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 12:47
|
|
|
Idle thought that may be worth bringing up, is that Kerrigan herself is also a lot less pre-disposed to be civil with Protoss even when they're not out to kill her. If we assume for the moment that Kerrigan actually DOESN'T remember any specific events from her time as Queen of Blades, the only experience she actually had with Protoss pre-infestation was them glassing planets and her fighting them at New Gettysburg.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 14:17
|
|
|
Still kinda salty about how this game did Hydras dirty. Yes, BW-style Hydras that are Hatch tech and I ly one supply would be ludicrously busted with SC2's pathing, lack of selection limit, and other mechanical differences, but as a Zerg player I gotta ask: would that be so bad? "Oh no, Terran and Protoss could never defeat Zerg!" Yeah not really seeing a downside here, guys.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 14:29
|
|
|
Honestly, Lair-tech hydras makes me wonder why you wouldn't just build mutas instead. (I'm sure there's plenty of reasons I'm not seeing because I know zilch about SC2 zerg balance, and also man I loved muta swarms in 1.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 15:19
|
|
|
Mutas are way more expensive. Also more fragile, I think?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 15:29
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:Still kinda salty about how this game did Hydras dirty. Yes, BW-style Hydras that are Hatch tech and I ly one supply would be ludicrously busted with SC2's pathing, lack of selection limit, and other mechanical differences, but as a Zerg player I gotta ask: would that be so bad? "Oh no, Terran and Protoss could never defeat Zerg!" Yeah not really seeing a downside here, guys. Wanted to say this as well. I miss my huge hydralisk swarms. I'm guessing the plot gives Kerrigan a pass on actually being a baddie instead of treating her like an actual villain protagonist?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 15:53
|
|
|
I think everyone is sort of falling into a bit of a trap here. Trying to decide "good guy or bad guy" is not the point here. Kerrigan has one goal. Revenge against Mengsk. Period. To do that, she needs to survive. If she does not kill all of these Protoss, they have sworn, even BEFORE she started killing them, to send the Golden Armada to Hunt Her Down and blow her constituent atoms across the known universe. And frankly, right now the Golden Armada could very likely do exactly that! So, they need to die. Period. Kerrigan is angry, and has a very specific goal. Murdering the poo poo out of the rear end in a top hat who screwed her over and ruined her life. There is no "good guy" or "bad guy" stance here. There is survival, there is revenge. Anyone who threatens either of those things is on the "kill" list. End of story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 19:59
|
|
|
So, because the wikis are poo poo and just don't have the ability icons for a lot of HotS units (which is what I did for all of Wings), I asked Kith to teach me how to pull them from the editor directly. Step 1: Open the console window. Simple right? Except for whatever reason my console just *refused to open* and I'm completely unable to rip the icons I need, so Kith had to export them and send them to me. At least Cyth isn't the only one screwed over by Blizz coding anymore!
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 20:00
|
|
|
Wait if they had these teleporters to Shakuras why not just a send a single scout through to contact them?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 21:30
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:Wait if they had these teleporters to Shakuras why not just a send a single scout through to contact them? 'Cause the Protoss be are like space elves, and as we saw in wc3, elves gotta have a proper invite with a officially appointed messenger, or they just won't listen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 21:47
|
|
|
BisbyWorl posted:At least Cyth isn't the only one screwed over by Blizz coding anymore! Uh oh. Does this mean it's coming for me?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 22:05
|
|
|
BlazetheInferno posted:I think everyone is sort of falling into a bit of a trap here. Starcraft 2 is a strategy game. This personal revenge drama is playing out on the scale of nations and armies. To ignore that as a reality within the text and thus an influence on how we read it is lazy readership. Heart of the Swarm is also a second part of a cohesive story that exists within the larger context of things that have been established in the first part, like the Xel'Naga/Hybrid threat, the Zerg's status as victims of Xel'naga influence that was partly responsible for making them into the apocalyptic blight we know them to be, and Kerrigan's centrality in averting the end of life as we know it. The story built up a scenario where the audience should be sympathetic to Kerrigan. They established that she's supposed to be The Savior of the Galaxy, the included a plot point around her memory that seems to exist mainly to purge her from responsibility for the Queen of Blade's actions, they even took the time to hint that maybe the Zerg wouldn't be so bad if you just gave them a chance. Now they're casting her in the most unfavorable light possible after everything they did previously to position her sympathetically. If there's a point to doing that in the long run of the story's themes, then that's good. If there isn't, then all you've accomplished is making your protagonist harder to like and empathize with. Which has been the overall point of most of my posts in this thread: they're clearly struggling with their own parameters for what this story is meant to be in terms of tone, mood and content. And we've just started!
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 22:23
|
|
|
Why doesn't Kerrigan just leave Kaldir? She came to take over the local Zerg, but they'd all gotten killed or frozen, she's basically starting from scratch. There is nothing here that is advancing her goals. She could literally just bail and leave the planet to the Protoss and be just as well off and look less like a monster. There could have been some real moral tension if she had to split her time between holding off the Protoss and hunting for some new creature to infest. Or what if she got partway through invading another planet and then realized she needed frost resistance? But as-is there's no justification.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 22:43
|
|
|
Karia posted:Why doesn't Kerrigan just leave Kaldir? She came to take over the local Zerg, but they'd all gotten killed or frozen, she's basically starting from scratch. There is nothing here that is advancing her goals. She could literally just bail and leave the planet to the Protoss and be just as well off and look less like a monster. There could have been some real moral tension if she had to split her time between holding off the Protoss and hunting for some new creature to infest. Or what if she got partway through invading another planet and then realized she needed frost resistance? But as-is there's no justification.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 22:51
|
|
|
Karia posted:Why doesn't Kerrigan just leave Kaldir? She came to take over the local Zerg, but they'd all gotten killed or frozen, she's basically starting from scratch. There is nothing here that is advancing her goals. She could literally just bail and leave the planet to the Protoss and be just as well off and look less like a monster. There could have been some real moral tension if she had to split her time between holding off the Protoss and hunting for some new creature to infest. Or what if she got partway through invading another planet and then realized she needed frost resistance? But as-is there's no justification. I think the long and short is, even if she leaves, the Golden Armada will be actively hunting for her if they learn about her leading the Zerg again. Long gone or not, she doesn't want them searching in the first place; they could end up finding her at an extremely inopportune time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 23:07
|
|
|
…For that matter: what the gently caress was she (as the QoB) doing in the first place, sending out a brood that evidently wasn’t already adapted to the extreme cold environment?
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 23:11
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:…For that matter: what the gently caress was she (as the QoB) doing in the first place, sending out a brood that evidently wasn’t already adapted to the extreme cold environment? Going by the Adjutant's description of the two campaigns, Nafash went there by herself when the Swarm split up without Kerrigan. We don't actually know if brood mothers are particularly smart, at least thus far.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 23:20
|
|
|
Bit of a late response, but I've been away from my computer since last week, and I did have a couple thoughts on the whole Kerrigan/QoB thing. At least one theory-of-Mind that's reasonably popular and holds together is that what we call the mind isn't a singular thing but a chorus made up of the various impulses from our instincts, our memories, our emotional responses, all those evolutionary left overs from the lizard brain, the mammal brain, etcetera, with our consciousness mostly being a journaling service that collates the various 'thoughts' playing through our heads into something we perceive as our 'Me'. When the Overmind infested Kerrigan, it basically added an (or even several) additional voice(s) to Kerrigan's chorus-of-Me, loud enough to overwhelm most of Sarah's self, resulting in a being with Sarah Kerrigan's memories (especially the ones of being screwed over by Mengsk) and enough of her personality to be recognizable, but with her conscience shut down and subjugated to the Will and the Purpose of the Swarm, subject to itself but autonomous to a degree hitherto unseen in the Swarm -- the Queen of Blades. When it subsequently 'died', the Queen of Blades became the new focus for the collective Will of the Swarm, which continued to inform her basic drives with a bit more of her own personality (although still sans conscience). The Xel'Naga artifact didn't untransform Kerrigan all the way, but it did disrupt the link to the Swarm enough that its drives and instincts no longer drown out her own chorus. Mostly. (Also let's keep in mind that before she joined Mengsk she was a Terran Ghost, meaning brainwashed into an obedient and remorseless tool for the regime; what vestiges of a conscience she might have had were developed in the period between her defecting from the Earth forces and being screwed over by Mengsk to be fed to the Swarm. The fact that she had any speaks for her.) In that earlier cutscene she's pretty clearly trying to find some way, some reason to hang on to her human conscience, calling for Jim, quite possibly the one person in the galaxy that saw her as a person and not a tool to be used, begging him to respond and give her the grounding she needs to hang on... And then she learns that Mengsk had him killed. Welp. No more reason to care about anyone or anything else in the Galaxy. Mengsk has to burn and nothing else -- no one else -- matters one good god drat. (I probably gave this all more thought than the writers ever did, but hey.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 00:58
|
|
|
Karia posted:Why doesn't Kerrigan just leave Kaldir? She came to take over the local Zerg, but they'd all gotten killed or frozen, she's basically starting from scratch. There is nothing here that is advancing her goals. She could literally just bail and leave the planet to the Protoss and be just as well off and look less like a monster. There could have been some real moral tension if she had to split her time between holding off the Protoss and hunting for some new creature to infest. Or what if she got partway through invading another planet and then realized she needed frost resistance? But as-is there's no justification. If the Protoss send the Golden Armada after her at this stage, she's toast. She can't leave Kaldir if she want to live.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 01:00
|
|
|
if the Golden Armada is such hot poo poo then Kerrigan should have just told the protoss "Yes that is right, His Majesty Arcturus Jefferson Beauregard Mengsk, current residence Augustgrad, Korhal, sent me to destroy you and there's nothing you can do about it mwa ha ha"
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 01:02
|
|
|
Hwurmp posted:if the Golden Armada is such hot poo poo then Kerrigan should have just told the protoss "Yes that is right, His Majesty Arcturus Jefferson Beauregard Mengsk, current residence Augustgrad, Korhal, sent me to destroy you and there's nothing you can do about it mwa ha ha" I wouldn't think they'd fall for this, but the put Artanis, the Rodimus Prime of the Protoss, in charge of their fleet, so its possible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 02:12
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I wouldn't think they'd fall for this, but the put Artanis, the Rodimus Prime of the Protoss, in charge of their fleet, so its possible. Imho a purely political move to have a figurehead while the various Protoss factions wrestle for influence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 02:16
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I wouldn't think they'd fall for this, but the put Artanis, the Rodimus Prime of the Protoss, in charge of their fleet, so its possible. if Zeratul forgot to off Raszagal it'd be simple
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 02:22
|
|
|
Intermission 3   Of an enemy who damaged you? No. Memories of better times. Of a friend... now lost.Remember kids, extermination is fine and dandy so long as you do it while seeking revenge for your TWUE WUV.   >Talk to Izsha.   It is not yet ready for launch, but it will be before we can get to it. They're tenacious, I'll give them that. But I am ready for this.No half measures like stranding the protoss here long enough to go kill Mengsk or anything. They have one more escape option that'll force us to kill every last one of them. >Talk to Lasarra.       Last mission was enough to open up the third pair of abilities. Unlike the default choices, Tier 3 is purely passives. I can pick between Zergling Reconstitution (Killed Zerglings respawn for free at my primary Hatchery at a rate of 10 Zerglings every 30 seconds.) and Improved Overlords. (Overlords morph instantly and give an extra 50% supply.)  I go for Zergling Reconstitution because it sounds far more fun.      Answer complex. Can branch evolution of fully evolved zergling, form two new strains. Then add them to the Swarm, Abathur. Strains mutually exclusive. Will compete in sequence. One must be chosen. Other must be discarded.While things are more freeform than Wings, there are still a few fixed choices. Fine, make some of each; I want to see them in action.  That fancy button is now lit up, but first we have to check out what else is new. >Talk to Abathur.    Oh, so does that mean Abathur made the bone high heels she had before? Weak and soft. Broke bones. Tore flesh. Improved you. Kerrigan hits him with a good psionic smack.   >Examine Hydralisk.  Hydralisks can pick between Frenzy, (an active ability that gives +50% attack speed for 15 seconds) Ancillary Carapace, (+20 life) and Grooved Spines. While Frenzy is pretty much Stims without a health cost, Kerrigan being in the army means I'll be using her 90% of the time, so I go with the range upgrade instead.  Now to see what all the hubbub is about. Video: Zergling Evolution   Essence count: 11  Essence count: 12    Dramatic zoom-in!  Adaptation required.  Devour karak. Collect essence. Can assimilate trait into zergling strand.Essence count: 13   The Evolution Missions are just extended versions of the no-build sections we've been seeing until now.  Grab my 25 Zerglings, move them towards the Karaks.  It isn't a fair fight.   Essence count: 14  Good. Let's see them in action.   With 80 of my shiny new Raptors, this will be a breeze.  Raptors gain the Reaper's ability to hop up and down cliffs.  As well as the ability to leap at nearby enemies, giving a dramatic slow-mo the first time it gets used here.  And if that wasn't enough, they get a free +2 damage!   And then they swarm over these poor guards.       I'm taking control of the hive cluster right now.    Where the Raptor has a bunch of tricks, Swarmlings are far simpler.  They hatch in like 3 seconds.  And you get even more of them.   And then I swarm them.  Their fault for leaving a feral brood 30 seconds from their base, I guess.    Evolution Missions are fun and all, but on repeat playthroughs they're a bit like the Prophecy missions in that they're the exact same every time and the optimal play is to do them as soon as they come up.  Must prepare sequences for Swarm integration. Returning to evolution pit.   Essence Count: 15  And now I get to pick which strain I'm stuck with for the rest of the campaign. At a glance the choices seem evenly matched, right? Simple pick of quality vs quantity? Dig a bit deeper, however, and the Swarmling rapidly falls behind. First off: The main thing Swarmlings get you is a small decrease in mineral cost, except minerals are rarely your resource bottleneck. Second:  Let's step back a second.  Specifically: here.  I make one Swarmling.  Then a second.  And finally a third. Why does it randomly cost 2 supply? Because despite the extra Swarmling in each egg not costing minerals, it still costs supply. Every other Swarmling egg costs two supply instead of one to keep things equal. This means that even by end game, a maxed out army of Swarmlings and a maxed out army of Raptors will still have the exact same headcount. The final problem is a bit more technical, in that map triggers don't take your choice into account. If a mission says to give the player 10 Zerglings, it gives exactly 10, even if you'd need 15 Swarmlings to be fair. Even right now, Kerrigan's new Zergling Reconstitution only revives 10 at a time, so going with Raptors will get me more bang for my buck.  So the only thing the Swarmling brings to the table is the ability to quickly get a few out if you get surprised by an attack, while the Raptor makes the already powerful Zergling even stronger.   The Raptor's ability to leap at enemies gives it an innate way to close the gap in a fight.  So that, combined with the +2 damage, makes Adrenal Overload a much better choice now.  All that's left here is to go finish off those pesky colonists.  We are still able to sense its presence but time is running short.
BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jan 21, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 04:07
|
|
|
Plus it gives zerglings little flappy wings. They can't really fly with them, but its adorable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 04:17
|
|
|
The evolution missions are one of the coolest additions. Rather than just reading a short paragraph blurb describing the use, you actually get to take them on a few minute test drive.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 04:29
|
|
|
I'm also a big fan of the evolution missions. It's a cool way to try before you buy. I find the choices are generally more interesting than this one, where I agree the Raptor is the best one by a significant margin. The Swarmlong's only real use, IMHO, is if you want to go real heavy on Banelings. Well, the Roach evolution is incredibly stupid. But the rest are cool.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 04:43
|
|
|
Swarmlings also suffer from not really being (significantly?) smaller than regular zerglings, so even if you have 1.5 times as many, you can’t get many more of them into contact with the enemy at once. Like, you can have 8 zerglings fighting and 12 wiggling around uselessly behind them, or you can have 8 swarmlings fighting and 22 wiggling around uselessly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 04:48
|
|
|
I like how Abathur's reaction to getting a psychic wedgie is just "buh what"
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 06:41
|
|
|
her incandescence forced his excrescence into quiescence
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 06:45
|
|
|
BisbyWorl posted:Oh, so does that mean Abathur made the bone high heels she had before? Raised vantage point. Increased stabbing power of kick. Additional stunning effect observed on Terran forces. Cause unknown. Efficiency still undeniable. Optimal design.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 07:09
|
|
|
I always thought the raptorling option made them look like evil, alien roaches. It's definitely the hands down better pick. Which is a shame because the dimetridon sail swarmlings get is an equally cool change to their looks.GunnerJ posted:I like how Abathur's reaction to getting a psychic wedgie is just "buh what" Dude just fails so hard at comprehending she abhors what he did to her.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 07:14
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Dude just fails so hard at comprehending she abhors what he did to her. I mean, he did the job. Did it so well she kicked every enemy of the swarm's rear end up and down the sector. Very efficient. To him he literally did everything right. And now pain. Kind of like my blunt mouth as an autistic kid. I'd say something honest and when hands or things are getting thrown at me and I'd just be "BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DID WROOONG?!?" 
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 07:40
|
|
|
BisbyWorl posted:
Not only this, but they actually are counted as missions according to the... blurb? back of the box sales pitch? Whatever. Number of missions is not really a metric that matters that much for strategy games, I'm sure most people would rather play a tight set of 10 good missions with no filler than 20 mediocre maps that are there to pad out a bare bones campaign, but the evolution missions, as said, are very short and built entirely around a small segment using both evolutions. With very little meat to them, this makes Heart of the Swarm by far the shortest of the three campaigns, and while most here are probably fine with spending a lot less time in Kerriganland, with vague guest appearances by the Zerg, it definitely stings more as a sequel to Wings of Liberty.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 08:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
Does this and the earlier line ("Unique essence discovered on Dominion security world") also count as a trackable Essence? (I.e. +2) Also when replaying the missions in the Archive you can select which evolution is active rather than being stuck with one or the other, which is a welcome feature. SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jan 21, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2024 08:12
|
|