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Procedural generation is math that assigns content while AI is math that steals content.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:20
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| # ? May 23, 2024 18:12 |
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if it knows how many fingers people have, it's procedural
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Jan 22, 2024 00:22
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Triarii posted:Procedurally generated worlds don't take in other, completed game worlds as training data. Would be pretty wild if they did though. There's the more basic procgen where you're setting the bounds and watching the code spit out a bunch of attempts. Then selecting the best attempt, tweaking the variables and letting it rip again. Repeat until it makes something decent AI basically does that on its own but it needs some examples of the finished product to work with which is where the copyright infringement comes in E: I mean its theoretically possible to train an AI on non copyright-infringing material but I'm not sure anybody has tried that but LLM, ML, AI etc get thrown around so much that I'm not sure anybody agrees on the definitions. At least, I keep stumbling on conflicting definitions, some including what I described above, so I could be wrong Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 00:26
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Triarii posted:Procedurally generated worlds don't take in other, completed game worlds as training data. Would be pretty wild if they did though. training an AI on just Earth's height map would be interesting, but not sure it would be enough data on larger scales like continents edit: if it doesn't have a line that's "import tensorflow" and is from the AI district it's just sparkling conditionals
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Jan 22, 2024 00:29
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The new Prince of Persia game rocks. It's a weird patchwork of mechanics from other metroidvanias but every one of them is done well, I don't know how Ubisoft pulled it off. I'd put it up there with the best modern metroidvanias, I'm enjoying it as much as I did Hollow Knight.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:34
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Fruits of the sea posted:E: I mean its theoretically possible to train an AI on non copyright-infringing material but I'm not sure anybody has tried that adobe and getty are both doing that with their own stock photo libraries, though adobes version is contentious since they accept AI generated stock images and there's no requirement that those are derived from licensed images
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Jan 22, 2024 00:35
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If you're being strict about your terminology, procedural generation involves random sampling from a distribution specified by the programmer whereas generative "AI" does the same sort of sampling from a distribution learned from training data.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:36
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Triarii posted:Procedurally generated worlds don't take in other, completed game worlds as training data. Would be pretty wild if they did though. Imagining a level building AI trained on whatever the gently caress was going on in Hellgate London
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Jan 22, 2024 01:21
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Supraland: Six Inches Under is really failing to click with me. The previous expansion was rough and pretty much universally worse than the base game, but it still felt like Supraland. With SIU they've completely changed the pacing, the scale, and the overall design in a way that just lacks all of the compelling aspects. It also has easily the worst combat yet. Combat was never Supraland's strong suit, but it was serviceable and giving you stuff like the shock rifle from UT added a little flair. Now it's become completely phoned in, with even more obvious out of place asset store enemies, your arsenal sucks, and it serves zero purpose. You'll just blunder into an transitional area where you need to kill a few waves of enemies to continue and that's it. Most of the upgrades are still combat related despite combat being otherwise so de-emphasized.  It also goes for a weird trick that instead of a being a fun twist just made me feel exhausted. The game leads you along through various distinct levels all built around setpieces in a very mannered way, with a very clear progression and an end goal. Unlike the previous games there's very little freewheeling exploration. This progression caps off first with what plays out like a final level/boss fight...but no, that's not the end of the game. The game awkwardly starts building up to what seems like yet another climax and then 30 seconds later you get dumped out into a completely new area and told you're only halfway done. The puzzle design is also just a mess. The #1 rule of good puzzle design is giving the player a clear understanding of the problem and a clear understanding of the tools available and it regularly fucks this up. The designers had a fetish for outright hiding the tools and often the problem itself isn't clearly described. Some puzzles it's felt like I solved them wrong, others I've had to look up for being completely unintuitive. This is also where a lot of the scale/pacing stuff goes wrong, where it feels like you have to go through a lot of fiddly steps just to get a little bit further along, but other times they made a giant setpiece puzzle chamber...just for the sake of a comparatively simple puzzle that never makes use of that space at all. Movement is badly limited and it feels like to compensate they made everything overly rely on the Magnet Belt. In the first game, it was a classic Metroid style moment where as soon as you found it, all of the conspicuous metal stuff lying around made sense. It was just one component of navigating the world, not your core mobility mechanic. In SIU getting basically anywhere is going to involve awkwardly floating between metal objects. Imagine if literally every time you wanted to go anywhere in Metroid you had to get bogged down in morph ball mazes, it's that kind of vibe. The secrets are bizarre in that so many are lazy "look behind this rock" style while others lead to giant optional areas that rival the regular levels. And worse still, the complexity of the secrets in no way corresponds to the quality of treasure you find. I've solved overly involved puzzles only to be rewarded with more goddamn money, which currently I have a surplus of and literally have nothing available to buy with it. Even the humor is just kinda gone or at least whatever is there is completely bland. I think if I'm remembering right this is the result of them giving the keys to various other developers who wanted to take a crack at it while the main devs are busy with Supraland 2, but oof, nobody seems to really get the formula. I had heard this one was supposed to be better than the other expack, and I suppose it is certainly more polished? But that didn't translate into actually being fun.  Edit: Digging through the negative reviews to see what other people said, I found out they actually did a whole rear end post-mortem on Six Inches Under where basically, yeah, they realize they kinda hosed everything up. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 02:11
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Hey I actually 100% supraland and liked it a lot. Sounds like this is probably not worth my time. I thank you for helping me take one thing off my wishlist. Edit: yeah skimming that blog and looking at that they're working on supra world seems like people should consider skipping six inches under. I'll just wait for reviews on supra world Ineffiable fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 03:35
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I've been playing Kingdom Two Crowns with a friend and we crushed the main campaign. When we moved onto the Skull challenge island, we haven't been able to make any progress. Any advice or tips? The start seems heavily luck dependent. You spawn without any coins and there are no coins in the village, so you have to find a coin chest in the forest to be able to do anything at all. We had a couple starts where the first coin chest spawned behind 2-3 portals. When the coin chest spawns that far out, we've never been able to get the city started soon enough to get enough defenses built to survive the first night. Our best start so far was from heading immediately in the direction opposite the city fire and hoping to get a coin chest. The initial coins are spent on 2 hunters, who, if the RNG god smiles on you, can kill two deer, giving enough coin to afford a builder and a wall on either side. (You can optionally skip the walls by using your mount power really well the first night, but that just puts you behind the curve for the next night). When this works, it's usually because I managed to spook the deer into, and sometimes back into the hunters. Then second day is spent chopping trees, and hiring more hunters. Third day, I try to find the dang hourglass and put enough money into it to stave off sudden death. We've had a few games where the hourglass was behind too many portals and we were not able to get to it, RIP. Then, even if everything else has gone right, keeping the hourglass from hitting zero takes too many coin, meaning our defenses aren't good enough to survive the first blood moon. This feels like something I might be able to narrowly manage if I try enough times, but getting everything else to line up juuuust right to even get to this point happens rarely enough I'm getting a little frustrated.
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Jan 22, 2024 04:20
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repiv posted:you may be thinking of UEVR, which is a framework for patching VR support into not-VR unreal games Ohhhhh, yep. That's it. Still cool though.
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Jan 22, 2024 04:30
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Ok, here's a big post about the games I got to play at MAGFest! (Unfortunately I didn't get to play all of them, so if you're curious to see the full listing, you can check it out here). #BLUD  Only got to play this for a short bit, but the animation quality is immaculate and it looks to have some solid and juicy ARPG combat. It's absurd how good the animation looks and that it's how it is in-game: I seriously thought the trailers and gifs must've been doctored somehow, but nope! Below The Stone  Kinda feels like Deep Rock Galactic with more survival-crafting elements: from your hub you select some quests (gather materials, kill monsters, etc) and then you dive into a randomly-generated mine where you complete your objectives while getting any other bonus stuff you like as well. Then you call for extraction, survive until your pod arrives, get rewarded for your work back home and buy/sell/craft new stuff at the hub with all your earnings to prepare you for more dangerous missions, repeat ad nauseum. CIPHER ZERO  If you're the type of person who likes puzzlers like The Witness, aka someone who looks at the above screenshot and thinks "oooh what do all those symbols mean, I can't wait to experiment and found out" then you've found the game for you. It's a pretty chill and minimalist puzzler with a strong sense of exploration through learning all of the mechanics by trial-and-error instead of explicit instructions or tutorials. Death of a Wish  Sequel to Lucah Born of a Dream, this ARPG aims to impress with its enthrallingly bizarre and surrealist vibes and stylish spectacle combat that practically crackles with energy. For lovers of the strange and undecipherable, as well as lovers for deep and challenging character-action combat: it was the best in show for me. I'm ashamed to say, but I need to get off my butt and play Lucah: I've been saving it up for so long! Geo Mythica   From the developers of Adventures of Chris comes this modern-day setting globetrotting adventure with strong Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and Earthbound vibes. I actually played this on a previous MAGFest, but this time I got to see the game much further along and I was pleased with the combat, which is this interesting form of RTWP meets Secret of Mana: as you're slashing and stunning enemies to interrupt their long casts with the main character, you're also pausing (or using hotkeys) to order your allies to cast crowd-control, buffs, and the like. I also liked that while the characters do have roles, there is still some light customization with bonus spells and talents you can assign (and freely reassign) for build variety. Gunmetal Gothic  Pretty neat third-person shooter RPG with a PS1 Bloodborne-esque aesthetic. I was rather amused with the retro appeal of the level-based system, mechanics like points, and the slow tank-like control scheme that they were using, which felt akin to something like RE4. Definitely for fans of RE4 and especially Remnant From the Ashes with the coop functionality! Nixie  This metroidvania took a while to warm up as, while the Genesis aesthetic feels well done, the gameplay was pretty bog-standard initially. Later on as I started to encounter cool bosses, see that the world had a lot of secrets, and get a lot of interesting traversal powers and challenging platforming/puzzles, things started to look up! Don't know if it's going to rock your world, but might be worth keeping an eye on, especially if you like Hollow Knight-esque pogo-jumping. NOISZ STARLIVHT  Technically they were promoting their mobile game spin-off, but NOISZ is still a pretty cool fusion of rhythm game and bullet hell. As a lover of boss fights, I find it very addictive and fun to learn the bosses pattern, listen to some great music, and blast away at the boss to the rhythm of the beat! For lovers of other rhythm fusions like BPM, Necrodancer, and so on. Raw Metal   This game is quite the wild combination: initially it is a top-down game where you're sneaking around patrols and making it to the exit, but when you sneak attack an enemy or get caught by them, suddenly the camera shifts and you're engaging in some Yakuza/Sifu stylish combat with juggles, parries, guardbreaks and so on. Risk System  An interesting horizontal SHMUP where shooting is automated as long as you're in-line with an enemy and, most importantly, you probably guessed it from the title, your power attack is charged by taking risks (aka grazing enemy shots). The Transylvania Adventure of Simon Quest   I didn't get to play this unfortunately, but I'm sure you can see just by looking at it that the game is going for that Castlevania 2 open-world metroidvania appeal (similar to other games like Infernax) and looks to be pretty high-quality. Timeworks  This rather cute Portal-inspired puzzler has you completing long tasks in a short time by engaging in time clone shenanigans: you'll plan out a series of motions where you'll pass items around to your past/future selves who you'll set up as you rewind and restart over and over. I found it very fun and intuitive! This game should appeal to lovers of time-warping puzzlers like The Talos Principle and so on (trying to remember the name of this one portal game I played, something like Slipways or Slipgates? I dunno) Toxic Crusaders  Pretty juicy and impressive beat-em-up and has a lot of appeal for fans of the series, though I have to admit, it seemed to be trending more towards mashy dumb fun, lacking the sort of depth and complexity I want from beat-em-ups like Streets of Rage 4 and Fight n' Rage. Still, seemed high quality, and I could be mistaken. Typhoon Unit Butterfly Requiem  While it definitely looks a bit cheesy and deviant art-y, I thought the character swapping synergy mechanics were really fun and novel for this horizontal SHMUP: boss fights were a real spectacle of switching between characters to thwart matching mechanics and deliver powerful combos!
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Jan 22, 2024 04:51
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I liked Six Inches Under, so I say if you liked the original you should give it a try and refund if it doesn’t click with you. It has a 97% rating on Steam, so it’s not like the negative opinions here are universal.
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Jan 22, 2024 04:53
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The new Prince of Persia is great. Just a joy to control, and the later platform challenges and bosses do not gently caress around, you really need to use all your tools. Shame it's probably gonna miss its well deserved time in the spotlight due to not being on Steam.
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Jan 22, 2024 16:01
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GhostDog posted:The new Prince of Persia is great. Just a joy to control, and the later platform challenges and bosses do not gently caress around, you really need to use all your tools. Shame it's probably gonna miss its well deserved time in the spotlight due to not being on Steam. I watched a little of it and it really reminded me of Guacamelee (especially the maps). Is it much similar to that when playing?
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Jan 22, 2024 16:06
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MarcusSA posted:Procedural generation is just a different name for AI. It's the other way around. "AI" is another name for: - expert systems - handcrafted if/else sequences for computer opponents in games - procedural generation - linear regression - statistical analysis - machine learning in general - predictive models specifically - generative models specifically - deep neural networks specifically - piece of technology that threatens the jobs I care about more than others - model trained on ethically/legally acquired data - model trained on non-ethically/illegally acquired data - any combination of the above, we don't care which, we just want investors to throw money at us It's a shite term, which is generally meaningless, but it's usually pretty clear in context which exact meaning it has.
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Jan 22, 2024 16:16
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Kragger99 posted:I watched a little of it and it really reminded me of Guacamelee (especially the maps). Is it much similar to that when playing? Sorry, haven't played that (it's been on my "some day" list forever). Prince of Persia does have a demo, even if that does only shows off the early moveset it should give you an idea.
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Jan 22, 2024 16:36
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GhostDog posted:Sorry, haven't played that (it's been on my "some day" list forever). Do play Guacamelee. It's a great take on the genre, and unlike many other competitors, it doesn't overstay its welcome. It's the epitome of the metroidvania for people who like 1) colours, and 2) the concept of metroidvanias but don't have the time to bother with hours and hours of blind backtracking.
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Jan 22, 2024 16:42
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been a long time since i've played guacamelee, but i remember the fights in it always being discrete "we're going to lock the doors and spawn a bunch of guys in" rooms, whereas in prince of persia enemies are just part of the normal environment traversal (though there are of course a few arena fight segments) otherwise, yeah, pretty similar?
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Jan 22, 2024 16:46
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FishMcCool posted:Do play Guacamelee. It's a great take on the genre, and unlike many other competitors, it doesn't overstay its welcome. It's the epitome of the metroidvania for people who like 1) colours, and 2) the concept of metroidvanias but don't have the time to bother with hours and hours of blind backtracking. 1? 2? Both? They're 75% off on GOG. Why do you do this to me? Have you seen my backlog?
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Jan 22, 2024 16:47
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GhostDog posted:1? 2? Both? They're 75% off on GOG. Why do you do this to me? Have you seen my backlog? To my shame, I still have 2 in my backlog, so can't say much about it apart from that it looks good and continues the story. I played 1, the STCE Edition specifically. That's the latest, with all the additions, and when it was released it pissed off previous owners of the Gold Edition who expected it to be a free update. Now in case it helps your decision making one way or the other, Guacamelee also features plenty of dumb Mexican food puns and previous decade meme humour. That was a plus for me, but then...
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Jan 22, 2024 16:53
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Guacamelee's an amazing game, definitely go play it. Guacamelee 2's good but doesn't hit the same high.
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Jan 22, 2024 17:24
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IMO both are very good.
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Jan 22, 2024 17:29
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Guacamelee are meme games
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Jan 22, 2024 18:17
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i've been calling it guacameemee
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Jan 22, 2024 18:20
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I like the meemee game
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Jan 22, 2024 18:42
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All games are good except for the ones you like. Those games are cringe and gross. Am I doing it right?
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Jan 22, 2024 18:43
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i played guacamelee once and i cringed so hard my dick exploded
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Jan 22, 2024 18:45
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PantsBandit posted:I like the meemee game me too e: meme too
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Jan 22, 2024 18:48
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Me me, I'm a guac man!
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Jan 22, 2024 18:49
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Free accessories from the point shop because of the Fest: https://store.steampowered.com/points/shop/app/2790810
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Jan 22, 2024 19:22
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What a worthless "fest"...
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Jan 22, 2024 19:52
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https://twitter.com/Dexerto/status/1749405397046231109
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Jan 22, 2024 19:58
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Now we're talking. I want to see a Gengar with a machine gun
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Jan 22, 2024 20:03
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Gungar
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Jan 22, 2024 21:02
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Blastoise
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Jan 22, 2024 21:09
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Chadzok posted:Blastoise idiot crashed the train already
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Jan 22, 2024 21:09
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Mr. Meme
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Jan 22, 2024 22:35
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https://twitter.com/Piranha_Bytes/status/1749416801262297324?t=wpNFpwAVHZek4DGu0McAow&s=19
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Jan 22, 2024 22:51
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