|
Watching Giant Bomb and Gamespot go back to back on dunking on SC2013 was certainly something back in the day
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2024 23:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 05:44 |
|
|
Jonny Shiloh posted:I'm back on Dwarf Fortress and Banished. I always gently caress up banished by building a dock for merchants and getting flooded with refugees leading to a famine despite my giant stockpiles of food
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 00:28
|
|
|
Think I'm going to try Dwarf Fortress soon, I got the Steam version but haven't played it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 00:32
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:I always gently caress up banished by building a dock for merchants and getting flooded with refugees leading to a famine despite my giant stockpiles of food Are you playing Colonial Charter? I've not been overwhelmed with immigrants in CC but I do tend to overbuild housing (and firewood choppers - not having enough of them will kill your village in minutes) so maybe I've just not noticed it being an issue.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 00:34
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Think I'm going to try Dwarf Fortress soon, I got the Steam version but haven't played it. If you've not played it before, it's genuinely not as fiendish as its reputation would have you believe - normal colony builder rules generally apply.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 00:36
|
|
|
The crazy thing about Banished was that it was just made by like one dude, he made it, it was a big hit and impressed everyone, and then peace'd out for a decade.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 00:42
|
|
|
Jonny Shiloh posted:If you've not played it before, it's genuinely not as fiendish as its reputation would have you believe - normal colony builder rules generally apply. I have not, I can't do ASCII graphics so I never touched it. I've played a bunch of Rimworld so I imagine I'll grasp the basics, I've heard Rimworld in particular is just less complex sci-fi Dwarf Fortress.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 00:58
|
|
|
in the "vaguely city builder genre game to play while waiting to see if CS2 ever becomes worthwhile" category, ive been playing a ton of dotAGE and been having a good time. another fun game made by One Mysterious Guy
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 01:01
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:I have not, I can't do ASCII graphics so I never touched it. I've played a bunch of Rimworld so I imagine I'll grasp the basics, I've heard Rimworld in particular is just less complex sci-fi Dwarf Fortress. I'd say it's on a par, honestly - it's all just production chains and giving everyone somewhere to sleep, eat and gear up for fighting. Oh, and be buried too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 01:01
|
|
|
this game nudged me towards W&R Soviet republic which I think is the most bizarre but interesting city builder I've played in a long time. It's a shame cause CS2 looks great and has some great QoL features but underneath there is just, nothing to do. It's like when Civ 5 came out and civ4 with all its expansions was a much better game still...
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 01:12
|
|
|
Dwarf Fortress is a remarkably simple game, if you're used to Rimworld (especially with the expansions and/or mods) you'll find yourself surprised at how little "game stuff" there is to do in DF - it's mostly just a world simulator where you can build an anthill that manages itself most of the time. Its reputation came from the ASCII UI that was incomprehensible to people who didn't put in a lot of time with it, rather than any actual mechanics or gameplay stuff. I mean it's still a cool game, but in the context of having played a bunch of Rimworld first DF felt like it was a few notches down in complexity to me. The world and history generation stuff it does is incredibly complex and cool, but that's not something you directly interact with when playing the game. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jan 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 01:16
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNQtfbTrwg I saw this on cityplannerplays and tossed it on my wishlist. Looks like a fun survival city builder. Also uninstalled CS2. Once the initial rush of how pretty it was wore off, I just kept seeing how much is missing, not just when comparing to all the DLC of CS1, but just like... why can't I make my own parks?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 01:27
|
|
|
deep dish peat moss posted:Dwarf Fortress is a remarkably simple game, if you're used to Rimworld (especially with the expansions and/or mods) you'll find yourself surprised at how little "game stuff" there is to do in DF - it's mostly just a world simulator where you can build an anthill that manages itself most of the time. Its reputation came from the ASCII UI that was incomprehensible to people who didn't put in a lot of time with it, rather than any actual mechanics or gameplay stuff. Yeah agree with this. DF is more granular than other modern colony sims, but not actually as complex to manage, if that makes any sense. If you get into DF, make certain you have DFHack up and running. You're going to want it. Jonny Shiloh posted:I don't think we'll be seeing Mariina/co_martsu popping up in there any more BTL - looks like the fire fighting has been delegated to co_avanya. At least she's got some credit in the bank from the lovely assets she created for CS1, added benefit she seems not to have a penchant for bringing a Jerry can full of petrol to a bonfire. I expect we'll probably be seeing Mariina's resignation announcement soonish.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 02:07
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNQtfbTrwg It's kind of interesting to read between the lines with the big CS youtubers and see them getting frustrated with CS2 and want to do other stuff without coming out and saying the game sucks. Two Dollars Twenty just had a video where he gave up on his CS2 city and is starting a new one but you can tell he kind of ran into some fundamental problems with the game and had to start over to come at building a city in a way that actually works in the current game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 02:22
|
|
|
I'm hoping that this: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2287430/Metropolis_1998/ might be fun but I admit I'm helplessly weak to the aesthetic, regardless of quality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 03:44
|
|
|
Entropic posted:It's kind of interesting to read between the lines with the big CS youtubers and see them getting frustrated with CS2 and want to do other stuff without coming out and saying the game sucks. Two Dollars Twenty just had a video where he gave up on his CS2 city and is starting a new one but you can tell he kind of ran into some fundamental problems with the game and had to start over to come at building a city in a way that actually works in the current game. Yeah there have been a bunch of times in CPP's magnolia county series where he's like, "This is really frustrating." Or mentioning that he can use a mod to do a certain thing, but wants to keep this map as close to vanilla as possible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 03:56
|
|
|
Horsebanger posted:this game nudged me towards W&R Soviet republic which I think is the most bizarre but interesting city builder I've played in a long time. Ms Adequate posted:I'm hoping that this: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2287430/Metropolis_1998/ might be fun but I admit I'm helplessly weak to the aesthetic, regardless of quality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 04:03
|
|
|
Oh I meant to comment on W&R too; I've not played enough of it to really get to grips with everything but I deeply appreciate that it's a city builder trying to do something genuinely different. That it executes it really well is icing on the cake tbh.buglord posted:Yeah I saw this recently on Steam and i'm very much in the same boat. That kind of style is extremely catnip to me. All those buildings looking like they could have come out of the OG X-Com is indeed catnip 
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 04:10
|
|
|
Horsebanger posted:this game nudged me towards W&R Soviet republic which I think is the most bizarre but interesting city builder I've played in a long time. It's funny because one of my hopes with the hyping of the economic sim was that C:S2 was going to... well, definitely not actually be a W&Rlike, but that the flows between industries and resource availability would have a noticeable effect in it like they do there, just with the levers available to a capitalist government. poo poo like being incentivized to zone heavy I around resources and provide good flow up the value-add chain terminating in cargo links to the outside world, low and midrise building styles being more likely to roll brick if you developed your coal deposits or stone if you developed your quarries or wood if you snaked roads and zones through the woods, similar industries clustering and having distinct pollution types affecting what mitigation or greenbelt you build around them/what you allow to be built by district ordnance (tbf this is something W&R stumbles a lot with too), and seriously any citybuilder that's limiting transit stops to specific ploppables anyway needs to steal the linebuilding implementation rather than this "drag the line to exactly the right two pixels on the subway station, whoops you're an extra pixel over so it's going to the opposite platform and blocking the whole system until you delete the line" bullshit. Instead we have 18-wheelers hauling poo poo to the seaport so it can be sent back inland to the cargo terminal so it can be hauled back out. No passthrough on either, of course. And the dearth of specific industries are tied to some hosed-up state-built-and-immediately-privatized system with its own bespoke hell-UI that literally gives better results the more you click while setting it up, a huge regression from even C:S's "what I spawns is a district ordnance". And who can forget, checking on the mod that exposes better demographic data, an agent sim that assumes all agents age 0-22 attend elementary school every day but high school is strictly 23-28 and only if their only available job is minimum wage. It's not even a good transit game, I understand that drivers sometimes cheat and in a vacuum I'd like to see that implemented to reduce solvedness/reward "sometimes the perfect road still goes to poo poo, what's your backup", but there's a long long way between that and "everyone over 65 or accompanying their children/pets freely ignores bus-only markings."
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 05:29
|
|
|
Mandoric posted:It's funny because one of my hopes with the hyping of the economic sim was that C:S2 was going to... well, definitely not actually be a W&Rlike, but that the flows between industries and resource availability would have a noticeable effect in it like they do there, just with the levers available to a capitalist government. poo poo like being incentivized to zone heavy I around resources and provide good flow up the value-add chain terminating in cargo links to the outside world, low and midrise building styles being more likely to roll brick if you developed your coal deposits or stone if you developed your quarries or wood if you snaked roads and zones through the woods, similar industries clustering and having distinct pollution types affecting what mitigation or greenbelt you build around them/what you allow to be built by district ordnance (tbf this is something W&R stumbles a lot with too), and seriously any citybuilder that's limiting transit stops to specific ploppables anyway needs to steal the linebuilding implementation rather than this "drag the line to exactly the right two pixels on the subway station, whoops you're an extra pixel over so it's going to the opposite platform and blocking the whole system until you delete the line" bullshit. I've found it baffling that they went through all the effort of adding this economic simulation with goods coming from one kind of industry, feeding to another kind of industry, going to commercial, going to households, etc., but the player has seemingly little effect over it, and it has seemingly little effect over the city. Like I only build farms for aesthetics, and I don't build that many of them. I have a grain deficit in the 1000s of tons and there seems to be no issue with that, it just gets imported from outside the map. I don't think I could even satiate the demand if I built farms in every single one of the small grain zones they added to all the maps. When I play this game I just ignore it and my city grows and the happiness meter is pegged to the big green smiley face and I'm making money and all seems fine. The only time I've noticed its effects is with the bugs that cause certain buildings that interact with it to harm your city if you build them, like incinerators, or cargo rail hubs, or airports. Remember the issues on launch with garbage accumulation? And the workaround until it was fixed was to just not build any incinerator plants and the trucks will come from outside connections anyway? I'm so curious to find out what they envisioned it while implementing it, it doesn't seem to make sense. They added these systems that would make for interesting and challenging dynamics in building and evolving your city, and then also neutered them so they don't matter. They ended up recreating the first game while also adding a gun that'll randomly go off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 05:45
|
|
|
piratepilates posted:I'm so curious to find out what they envisioned it while implementing it I'd guess that their vision was a 2024 release date and six months to a year to actually get the simulation functioning and balanced.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 06:06
|
|
|
Yeah I think it's clear that the intent was that it would be an emergent dynamic simulation but that turned out way harder than they thought and they were taking too long and told they had to get it out and they ended up neutering most of it to try to get it under control and releasable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 06:15
|
|
|
I don't, to be honest, mind the limited levers so much in the context of a game; I was hoping for a game where the puzzle was how to assert control through the third-order or so things a planning board plus public works department plus port authority can touch. Blessing or cursing particular industries with their own pollution, education, and wage implications by how quickly and cheaply they can get their inputs, R density being a way to manage "how much in the way of services will/can you crowd in around the core that has access to all the happiness boosters" rather than the absurd "only college kids want to live in Manhattan" implementation, maybe even do some real dirty Robert Moses-style poo poo with 3m high overpasses over every major road into the 'burbs to signal to their inhabitants that buses full of downtowners will never come. The DNA of the genre is pedagogical, even if it's pedagogical and very not simulationist in its "Will Wright as a middlebrow autodidact reading one book on urban planning and condensing it into the RCI logic that a 68000 with 512k of RAM can handle" way, surely in the intervening 35 years of expected performance at a given real price doubling every 18-24 months and the growth of a major game release from "a programmer, a musician, an artist, and a secretary jam together for six months" to "teams of dozens to hundreds labor for several years" we can move to them reading a single 300-400 level class's book list and using that silicon for something closer to its expectations than ten or twenty interlinking fluid dynamics problems.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 06:34
|
|
|
Hey guys check this out;Ms Adequate posted:If they pull this off, these fuckers might finally dethrone SimCity 4; CS1 came way closer than I expected and this looks like it's building on that in every conceivable way. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 06:34
|
|
|
Ms Adequate posted:Hey guys check this out; Hey now, they had a great marketing push, who could have expected them to just outright lie about the state of the game until it came out. I don't think anyone foresaw the launch turning out to be this sequence of bunglements and calamities.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 06:40
|
|
|
Jonny Shiloh posted:I don't think we'll be seeing Mariina/co_martsu popping up in there any more BTL - looks like the fire fighting has been delegated to co_avanya. At least she's got some credit in the bank from the lovely assets she created for CS1, added benefit she seems not to have a penchant for bringing a Jerry can full of petrol to a bonfire. serious gaylord posted:They're getting absolutely bodied in their forum comments to the word of the week. Maybe I've grown numb from seeing goons rake admins over the coals on a quarterly basis, but come on
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 06:59
|
|
|
Don't ever underestimate the internet. First off, moderators would have removed any true vitriol, and second off, crazy people send death threats through other means and not official forums. I wouldn't be surprised if her statement last week was in reaction to CO getting some really foul poo poo and them not being used to that the way that major devs are.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 07:06
|
|
|
buglord posted:If Anime Store Adventure reads this thread he's gonna be really happy with this post. W&R is a close one for me I should have liked more because the aesthetic and mood of it all are top notch. But a few things are just a bit too granular for my liking. Hello. Honestly CS2 crushes me because I had a slight hope it would satisfy what I want in a city builder. W&R honestly gets me most of the way there, but at the end of the day it has a very specific presentation and game to it that, while I clearly love it, comes with baggage. I was hoping CS2 might crossover into just enough “infrastructure” simulator stuff with specialized industries and things of that nature that I could still get those little sips of having an actual interesting “system” to play with that wasn’t just a city painter. For as much as I love building and detailing cities in W&R, I bounced hard off of CS1’s ploppable RICO and getting into that much detail for its scale. Instead CS2 just sucks so I’m left building this in W&R where it is not only costing me way too many man hours and cement to build, but is almost entirely unnecessary and probably as efficient as just a single road overpass with one lane exit ramps, not to mention being a huge bitch of 15min of clicking to get looking symmetric. gently caress you CS2, now I’m building obscene capitalist highways in my Soviet paradise. Anime Store Adventure posted:
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 09:07
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:Hello. I've just had a bballjo vid pop up on my YT home page, I see he's drawn a line under series 8 which is a bit of a shame but understandable I think. Re. W&R, I've played a ton of it, but out of all of the things that could trip me up, the one thing I've never really got to grips with is the water supply system - I have a lot of water in the system but my water substations will often run dry and I struggle to diagnose why there's a problem, I assume there's some kind of a limit on the number of substations which can be fed from a water building via pipes and switches etc but if it's a maths problem I'm not sure what the equation is. Back on topic, I use ploppable RICO/MoveIt a lot but that's because I like building cities which look like they've grown organically (think Akruas and his Altengrad series) from the middle ages onwards. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 13:22
|
|
|
deep dish peat moss posted:Dwarf Fortress is a remarkably simple game, if you're used to Rimworld (especially with the expansions and/or mods) you'll find yourself surprised at how little "game stuff" there is to do in DF - it's mostly just a world simulator where you can build an anthill that manages itself most of the time. Its reputation came from the ASCII UI that was incomprehensible to people who didn't put in a lot of time with it, rather than any actual mechanics or gameplay stuff. DF is much more of a 'make your own goals' game than rimworld is. The thing that makes it much more complex is the "3D" physics simulation. The fact that liquids flow and you can build mechanisms to move things around and activate other devices, etc, and the fact that doing so can serve a useful purpose. Building in multi Z-level constructions in DF is much more interesting than rimworld's flatland simulation in that regard.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 13:49
|
|
|
deep dish peat moss posted:Dwarf Fortress is a remarkably simple game, This is possibly the least true thing that has ever been posted
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 14:42
|
|
|
Yeah 'simple' is definitely not the right word, but (unless you're playing a volcano/frozen wastelands challenge) it's not as punishing by way of 'whoops my colony starved to death' as pretty much any of its modern descendants.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 15:00
|
|
|
Jonny Shiloh posted:the one thing I've never really got to grips with is the water supply system - I have a lot of water in the system but my water substations will often run dry and I struggle to diagnose why there's a problem, I assume there's some kind of a limit on the number of substations which can be fed from a water building via pipes and switches etc but if it's a maths problem I'm not sure what the equation is. Pop on over to the W&R thread and maybe share some pics of your set up if you want help diagnosing it, ever. (Also full disclosure its still kind of a black box to me too, I've never done 'science experiment' stuff to figure out when things start to break down so I just overengineer it.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 19:30
|
|
|
Entropic posted:This is possibly the least true thing that has ever been posted To clarify I just mean the actual "game" of it - building a self-sufficient colony and setting everything up for your colony to survive indefinitely (barring you making a horrible mistake like flooding it with lava) is very straightforward. You can give yourself some very complex goals but as far as getting to the point where you just get to express your creativity and freedom to do weird things, there's not much to it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 20:29
|
|
|
lol i think the Word of the Week thread on r/citiesskylines got nerfed
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:27
|
|
|
sitchensis posted:lol i think the Word of the Week thread on r/citiesskylines got nerfed It was openly discussing how to push through refunds on steam even if you've played more than 2 hours and other city sims to play instead at the end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
I have a lot of goodwill towards CO because I've been on the other side of the "big big boss says it's 3 years late but client(s) says it's a minimum 1 year under baked" and it really sucks. Mind you for weird industrial stuff where the client isn't going to post some unhinged rant in public full of slurs but even when folks are well behaved it's gutting. I do wonder when the influencer blackout on CS1 is, because it does kind of suck watching CPP and the like struggle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:41
|
|
|
I don't want to say CO is blameless (not that I loving know, I'm just a guy on the internet) but the last three Paradox-published games I've played have all been a loving mess that was not even close to being ready for release, and all three of them were developed by different studios so Paradox publishing is the common feature. I don't think it's a coincidence. I'm not buying any Paradox-published games at release again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 21:53
|
|
|
Me either, which sucks because after they grew out of their deep Eurojank era they were a reliable enough company for awhile, but nowadays there's new jank and it's not caused by being an obscure little Swedish dev that has no budget and enormous ambitions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 22:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 05:44 |
|
|
Ms Adequate posted:Me either, which sucks because after they grew out of their deep Eurojank era they were a reliable enough company for awhile, but nowadays there's new jank and it's not caused by being an obscure little Swedish dev that has no budget and enormous ambitions. Paradox is a publicly traded company, that means shareholder and these days, that means Tencent is there, there's a Swedish venture capital fund that occasionally sell of shares to fund other ventures and sure, Wester owns a third, but still, obligations are obligations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 01:28
|
|
