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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/weegeedutchie/status/1742972773410996601?t=9POPz8aUqrTrnDYmcCXdzA&s=19 National Service returning to present day, post no such thing as society, UK is loving hilarious. I keep saying it, but these people have no idea how any of this stuff works. The Dutch Army already had to let their conscripts wear their hair however they wanted because the court ruled that it was barely acceptable to impose military service on them, it certainly couldn't impose military discipline related to anything but critical job functions.    
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Jan 24, 2024 16:08
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Sonare the Euros gonna be another bunch of armies that wont get out of their APCs to protect the tanks?
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Jan 24, 2024 16:17
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Paying less than McDonald's then trying to say "but you get free healthcare, during the short time you are in, in the prime of your life where you likely will not need to use it, and you get physically screened before entry anyway" always came off as bullshit to me especially in the context of people who just do their time and get out. It's a mystery why recruitment is down though!
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Jan 24, 2024 16:25
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KomradeX posted:Sonare the Euros gonna be another bunch of armies that wont get out of their APCs to protect the tanks? Good news! Wait until you hear about how many tanks and APCs the Europeans have and their ability to produce more! It won't be a problem, trust The Belgians literally got rid of their inventory of tracked vehicles entirely
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Jan 24, 2024 16:25
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Frosted Flake posted:Good news! Wait until you hear about how many tanks and APCs the Europeans have and their ability to produce more! It won't be a problem, trust lol, yeah I did remember about that right after posting
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Jan 24, 2024 16:26
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KomradeX posted:Sonare the Euros gonna be another bunch of armies that wont get out of their APCs to protect the tanks? It'll be more the Ukraine model than the Israeli model imo. In other words this time around the Russians will definitely run out of shells before the West run out of manpower.
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Jan 24, 2024 16:48
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Playing WARNO as BLUFOR, only all my decks are human waves after a single wheeled command vehicle.
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Jan 24, 2024 16:50
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:Playing WARNO as BLUFOR, only all my decks are human waves after a single wheeled command vehicle. Honestly, works pretty okay* *works well if you actually have even a modicum of artillery to suppress the enemy, but deck-based war is hell
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Jan 24, 2024 16:52
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Frosted Flake posted:National Service returning to present day, post no such thing as society, UK is loving hilarious. My dad (voluntarily) joined up during those days and he fondly told me a number of times that foreign armies would refer to the Dutch soldiers as "longhaired scum" but during joint exercises the Dutch would generally achieve the objectives they were set and be rather flexible because they basically flatly refused to "just follow orders" (the hair being one expression of that) and instead insisted on being told in detail what the plan was and why, which allowed even low ranks to adjust on the fly in keeping with the larger plan. He also told me not an exercise went by without a few Americans KIA because they were morons who just did as they're told without understanding any of it. No idea how embellished it all is, but if he's any indication the Dutch boomers in favour of conscription were themselves those people in your pictures and look back on that fondly. Also speaking of typical Dutch things, the Dutch armed forces are the only ones in the world who have a union.
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Jan 24, 2024 16:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/weegeedutchie/status/1742972773410996601?t=9POPz8aUqrTrnDYmcCXdzA&s=19 "nationalism is dumb, ideology is a gently caress, we're global capitalism now, free market owns, market yourself for the better job" everyone leaves the job where you get abused for months by a dumbass drill sergeant "huh where did everyone go???"
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Jan 24, 2024 17:01
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Orange Devil posted:He also told me not an exercise went by without a few Americans KIA because they were morons who just did as they're told without understanding any of it. Unfortunately, in my experience, plus ca change. 
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Jan 24, 2024 17:06
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What do you mean "unfortunately"?
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Jan 24, 2024 17:06
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Orange Devil posted:What do you mean "unfortunately"? You hate to see people killed by their dumb bosses. 
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Jan 24, 2024 17:11
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Justin Tyme posted:Paying less than McDonald's then trying to say "but you get free healthcare, during the short time you are in, in the prime of your life where you likely will not need to use it, and you get physically screened before entry anyway" always came off as bullshit to me especially in the context of people who just do their time and get out. It's a mystery why recruitment is down though! you get $26k to get abused by a bunch of freaks and get brain damage lol. they'd probably have to increase salaries like 50% to get people signing up and i guess that'd mean they'd have to give everyone else a raise too. quick estimate puts that at like $100 billion. compare that to just hiring mercenaries and i guess the us will lose ww3 lol
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Jan 24, 2024 17:25
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Hatebag posted:you get $26k to get abused by a bunch of freaks and get brain damage lol. they'd probably have to increase salaries like 50% to get people signing up and i guess that'd mean they'd have to give everyone else a raise too. quick estimate puts that at like $100 billion. compare that to just hiring mercenaries and i guess the us will lose ww3 lol It's impossible to earn that little money in the US military, unless maybe you're in prison or have been punished with forfeiture of pay as part of the punishment. The enlisted pay is low, but you're getting bad info from somewhere.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:30
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Zodium posted:president xi, my name is little joseph. i am eighty one years old. please send chengdu j-20 multi-role stealth fighter
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Jan 24, 2024 17:33
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mlmp08 posted:It's impossible to earn that little money in the US military, unless maybe you're in prison or have been punished with forfeiture of pay as part of the punishment. The enlisted pay is low, but you're getting bad info from somewhere. well, that was the listed salary for an e2 private on https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/while-you-serve/money-pay.html now that i actually clicked the link an e1 is $23k with a note that pay is lower for the first 4 months lol
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Jan 24, 2024 17:33
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Hatebag posted:well, that was the listed salary for an e2 private on https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/while-you-serve/money-pay.html Right, but to get to that number you have to ignore other pay and entitelments, such as untaxed $460/month for BAS, untaxed clothing allowance, and government matching tax-advantaged retirement plan contributions. So you are missing about $7k+ of compensation, assuming the person is an E-1 and has no dependents. Which, again, is very low pay for the hardships they are expected to deal with, but whether on purpose or not, you are omitting entitlements and pay. In fairness, military members and rightwing grandpas do like to pull up the basic pay chart and refuse to acknowledge any of the other pay and entitlements when bitching that kids these days want $15/hr minimum wage. And these grandpas won't mention the tax-free part of about 1/3 of the pay of a young sergeant or specialist, so it's a common misunderstanding.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:39
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Honky Mao posted:capital in the Twenty first century. Idk anything about and haven't read it but by name alone I will strongly recommend it lol just in case any lurkers get the wrong idea, this is the path to havana syndrome
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Jan 24, 2024 17:43
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Take your annual salary and subtract all your bills except maybe internet cellphone and car+insurance and see if you have more or less than 23k imo
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Jan 24, 2024 17:44
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mlmp08 posted:Right, but to get to that number you have to ignore other pay and entitelments, such as untaxed $460/month for BAS, untaxed clothing allowance, and government matching tax-advantaged retirement plan contributions. So you are missing about $7k+ of compensation, assuming the person is an E-1 and has no dependents. Which, again, is very low pay for the hardships they are expected to deal with, but whether on purpose or not, you are omitting entitlements and pay. but if you're trying to increase enlistment by raising the salary, you'd need to raise the actual salary. people don't shop for jobs looking at the total benefit amount. i doubt the typical prospective e1's eyes boggle at a 401k and an untaxed clothing allowance
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Jan 24, 2024 17:46
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Hatebag posted:but if you're trying to increase enlistment by raising the salary, you'd need to raise the actual salary. people don't shop for jobs looking at the total benefit amount. i doubt the typical prospective e1's eyes boggle at a 401k and an untaxed clothing allowance Yeah, fundamentally, I think they should get paid more for what they’re expected to put up with.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:49
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All that and you can get rancid MREs and black-mold infested housing too, what's not to love.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:00
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Hatebag posted:but if you're trying to increase enlistment by raising the salary, you'd need to raise the actual salary. people don't shop for jobs looking at the total benefit amount. i doubt the typical prospective e1's eyes boggle at a 401k and an untaxed clothing allowance I hate to say this again, but this is something that has been understood since at least the Bronze Age Fighting for a Living: A Comparative Study of Military Work Around the Globe Fighting for a Living investigates the circumstances that have produced starkly different systems of recruiting and employing soldiers in different parts of the globe over the last 500 years. It does so on the basis of a wide range of case studies taken from Europe, Africa, America, the Middle East and Asia. The novelty of "Fighting for a Living" is that it is not military history in the traditional sense (concentrating at wars and battles or on military technology) but that it looks at military service and warfare as forms of labour, and at the soldiers as workers. Military employment offers excellent opportunities for this kind of international comparison. Where many forms of human activity are restricted by the conditions of nature or the stage of development of a given society, organized violence is ubiquitous. Soldiers, in one form or another, are always part of the picture, in any period and in every region. Nevertheless, Fighting for a Living is the first study to undertake a systematic comparative analysis of military labour. It therefore speaks to two distinct, and normally quite separate, communities: that of labour historians and that of military historians. This title was made Open Access by libraries from around the world through Knowledge Unlatched. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bs07OvqXp4 "All gentlemen that have a mind, To serve the queen that's good and kind, Come list and enter into pay, Then over the hills and far away."
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Jan 24, 2024 18:03
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now this is quote:Among specialists who follow China most closely, the two main causes cited for this new conventional wisdom have been known for years. The first is that China’s growth model has been overreliant on policies such as financial repression and extraordinary levels of investment. Here, repression has nothing to do with the usual political usage of the word. It means, rather, that the state controls domestic interest, exchange rates, and capital outflows in such a way that citizens receive little accrual or benefit from their high rates of savings. Instead, these are captured by the state and channeled into industries that are favored or prioritized by bureaucrats, including many that are state-owned. no imperial japan no imperial japan youre the imperial japan
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Jan 24, 2024 18:05
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China is now at the point where it must invest huge amounts of capital to produce each new dollar of economic growth, and everything points to this continuing to worsen.
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Or the more, lol probably a bit more honest, version "We all shall lead more happy lives By getting rid of brats and wives That scold and bawl both night and day Over the hills and far away" "Courage boys 'tis one to ten We'll return all gentlemen All gentlemen as well as they Over the hills and far away"  Trying to get men to endure conditions like this without paying them more than they'd making staying at home is frankly nonsensical, I am bewildered that our lords and masters think they figured out One Weird Trick every previous state in history, worldwide, never thought of - pay soldiers very little, but also rely on volunteers. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 18:10 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 18:07
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Relying on mercenaries seems risky with the lack of slashed sleeves and opportunities to go whoring in the baggage train.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:30
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Frosted Flake posted:Trying to get men to endure conditions like this without paying them more than they'd making staying at home is frankly nonsensical, I am bewildered that our lords and masters think they figured out One Weird Trick every previous state in history, worldwide, never thought of - pay soldiers very little, but also rely on volunteers. Pay and wages have displaced other forms of social ties and indications of respect. To pay the soldiers more means they must be respected more. The lords and masters do not want to elevate anyone much less the soldiers.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:35
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Frosted Flake posted:Trying to get men to endure conditions like this without paying them more than they'd making staying at home is frankly nonsensical, I am bewildered that our lords and masters think they figured out One Weird Trick every previous state in history, worldwide, never thought of - pay soldiers very little, but also rely on volunteers. Conditions at home will be degraded until recruitment improves
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Jan 24, 2024 18:38
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I have trouble believing that neoliberal regimes that can barely manufacture munitions will have the wherewithal to pay for general conscription.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:40
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Zodium posted:president xi, my name is little joseph. i am eighty one years old. please send chengdu j-20 multi-role stealth fighter
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Jan 24, 2024 18:41
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bij posted:Relying on mercenaries seems risky with the lack of slashed sleeves and opportunities to go whoring in the baggage train. Been saying this
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Jan 24, 2024 18:53
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mlmp08 posted:Right, but to get to that number you have to ignore other pay and entitelments, such as untaxed $460/month for BAS, untaxed clothing allowance, and government matching tax-advantaged retirement plan contributions. So you are missing about $7k+ of compensation, assuming the person is an E-1 and has no dependents. Which, again, is very low pay for the hardships they are expected to deal with, but whether on purpose or not, you are omitting entitlements and pay. In the context of doing one enlistment then getting out, the only real solid benefit is the GI Bill, which is actually a really significant benefit but is more of a service reward than compensation if you ask me. Why should a Joe give a poo poo about BAS (it lets you eat at the dfac for free, big deal, half the time it is closed on weekends anyway and the BAS is deducted before you even see it and military cooks are paid regardless), access to the TSP (oh boy, I get an absolute pittance of a retirement account that will account for one month of bills once I retire), or a once a year clothing allowance that amounts to the world's worst performance/yearly bonus at a regular job? The GI Bill and in certain circumstances you can get professional certification are the only real draws in terms of "what do I get out of service? Or is this a waste of my time and health?" Justin Tyme has issued a correction as of 18:56 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 18:53
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https://twitter.com/IranObserver0/status/1750198226987180110?t=2BsWfcszojR9Tot-CvwB-A&s=19
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Jan 24, 2024 18:58
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Justin Tyme posted:In the context of doing one enlistment then getting out, the only real solid benefit is the GI Bill, which is actually a really significant benefit but is more of a service reward than compensation if you ask me. Why should a Joe give a poo poo about BAS (it lets you eat at the dfac for free, big deal, half the time it is closed on weekends anyway and the BAS is deducted before you even see it and military cooks are paid regardless), access to the TSP (oh boy, I get an absolute pittance of a retirement account that will account for one month of bills once I retire), or a once a year clothing allowance that amounts to the world's worst performance/yearly bonus at a regular job?
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Jan 24, 2024 18:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/IranObserver0/status/1750198226987180110?t=2BsWfcszojR9Tot-CvwB-A&s=19 Did they run out of oil to steal or something
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Jan 24, 2024 19:02
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/IranObserver0/status/1750198226987180110?t=2BsWfcszojR9Tot-CvwB-A&s=19 quote:According to reports, the US-backed Kurdish militias are also in negotiations to align themselves with Bashar al Assad they know who must go
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Jan 24, 2024 19:02
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I guess there's more abstract benefits too like hiring preference for federal jobs and access to VA home loans but when you tell that to a high school senior their eyes will glaze over vs "you'll get x amount of dollars per month deposited into your checking account tax free"
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Jan 24, 2024 19:02
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Slavvy posted:Did they run out of oil to steal or something my guess is this is a prelude to an intensified campaign by ISIS
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Jan 24, 2024 19:02
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Nothus posted:I have trouble believing that neoliberal regimes that can barely manufacture munitions will have the wherewithal to pay for general conscription. hmm turns out that the wages of whiteness don’t make up for actual wages
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Jan 24, 2024 19:06
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