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Randalor posted:Not tech related, but why does every recipe website do this poo poo? I don't need an essay about how easy the recipe is, or how easy it is to change the flavor profile by changing out the seasonings, or the history of your grandmother who was raised in a small cabin in the woods with a dirt floor and who had to treck 5 miles barefoot to school each day. I just want to know what temperature to set the oven to, what seasonings to use, and how long to stick the food in for. I kinda felt this way about the first 3 minutes of that IBM video posted above. It could have definitely been done in 30 seconds. It’s a great video after that bit but it was already a long video.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:35
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Arivia posted:I think one of the LTT videos, the one where Linus did an upgrade in a booth at a trade show, showed off a case for a Framework board that CoolerMaster was working on. Yeah, I knew about that but I thought it might be an explicit collab with Framework so I wasn't sure if it was indicative of a wider policy on 3rd-party accessories. However, with motherboard standards primarily being a matter of "the screws go here, the ports go here, these are the dimensions" it's hard to see how Framework could restrict them using IP law, and furthermore it's hard to see why they would think it's a productive fight to have. I'm sure they would love for other companies to go "We like what Framework is doing and want to make products for their ecosystem" - at least, as long as those products are properly labeled high quality ones and not counterfeits or trash.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:38
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Former Human posted:Why are people still watching LTT socks + sandals fetish
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Jan 24, 2024 17:42
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njsykora posted:The answer to why is the internet so poo poo now is always Google.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:45
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Eletriarnation posted:I mean... it's an incremental step towards the ideal, not the ideal itself. I'm not really sure what you would have expected here - should Framework have secured commitments from motherboard manufacturers to make and distribute multiple generations of motherboard through retail channels? You'd still have Framework manufacturing the chassis, then - should they have gotten a second laptop manufacturer to commit to making entire laptops along the same standards as competition? I think Framework is more about customisability than repairability. It's obvious they're going for the PC builder crowd (hence linus getting involved), but as people have said it's a specific modular type thing. It's not like they've helped bring about some kind of industry standard. So honestly yeah if they'd have got other manufacturers to make things for it, that would have been rad. But as you say, it's niche. I don't think it can ever reach the openness of the desktop computer market. The manufacturing demands of compact portable computers and phones is just at odds with that. But also the nicheness of it means I don't think it's a step towards the ideal more than it is a fun tinker toy for tech nerds, and so it feels like more of an indulgence than a straight up workhorse laptop like a macbook or a thinkpad. Also yes Linus is an idiot for thinking its in any way ok to be an investor in this while running youtube's biggest computer review outlet. There is no good way to review this fairly. Handing it off to your employees is loving dumb and it doesn't matter if they've thrown in some criticisms into the video. As others have said, it also taints everything else they review by association. The best he can do in the situation is an overview video that makes it clear it is essentially a co-marketing deal, and maybe refer people to videos from other tech youtubers.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:46
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Randalor posted:Not tech related, but why does every recipe website do this poo poo? I don't need an essay about how easy the recipe is, or how easy it is to change the flavor profile by changing out the seasonings, or the history of your grandmother who was raised in a small cabin in the woods with a dirt floor and who had to treck 5 miles barefoot to school each day. I just want to know what temperature to set the oven to, what seasonings to use, and how long to stick the food in for. 
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47
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The Grumbles posted:I think Framework is more about customisability than repairability. It's obvious they're going for the PC builder crowd (hence linus getting involved), but as people have said it's a specific modular type thing. It's not like they've helped bring about some kind of industry standard. On their own, they can't bring about an industry standard because you'd need more of the industry than a single company to do that. Saying they haven't "helped" really depends on whether it leads to anything more or not, because if it does then they have. That's up to other companies to follow their lead, though. I agree that much of the product appeal and marketing is based on customization, but I don't know how much that matters if the final result is also more repairable and reduces e-waste. Folks can buy it because it lets them have the ports/bezel they want, and then later they can keep it longer because it lets them swap out a broken port or upgrade to a new generation of CPU.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:54
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kliras posted:hopefully pci5 will last us a while PCIe is pretty amazing really because you can plug in a 1.0 card from 2003 into a pcie 6.0 slot and it should just work. And vice versa!* *although a minor caveat is the slot power was bumped up at some point so in some cases it might not be able to power it but it’s a pretty narrow list of cards that fall in that as gpus use the external power connectors anyway.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:57
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Eletriarnation posted:On their own, they can't bring about an industry standard because you'd need more of the industry than a single company to do that. Saying they haven't "helped" really depends on whether it leads to anything more or not, because if it does then they have. That's up to other companies to follow their lead, though. Maybe! Do they do any kind of environmental reporting? I wonder if there's more of a carbon footprint in making all of this stuff individually and modularly vs just producing a regular laptop. Along those same lines, considering people typically hold on to laptops far longer than, say, their phones, I wonder if having a kind of laptop that incentivises people to upgrade on the reg also ends up creating more e-waste and/or has a worse environmental impact more generally. Like, breakages notwithstanding, most people I know hold onto their laptops for a very, very long time, or they hand them down to a family member (maybe with an aftermarket battery repair). Going from a games console to a gaming PC definitely incentivised me into buying lots more poo poo that I absolutely do not need.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:05
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The Grumbles posted:Maybe! I'd be surprised if there wasn't, just because of how much of production carbon footprint lies in logistics and shipping.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:11
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The Grumbles posted:Maybe! Yeah, there's a sustainability page featuring a 3rd party life cycle analysis of the 13" laptop with i5-1240P: https://frame.work/sustainability It doesn't get into upgrades, but I'm not sure how many people are upgrading to new generations like clockwork considering the motherboard+CPU are most of the cost of the laptop.
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Jan 24, 2024 18:34
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iirc all the dimensions for framework modules are open source, part of the idea was that third parties would make those expansion cards too. I think the ones framework actually offers are pretty stupid. The usb-a card has one port. cmon!!
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Jan 24, 2024 18:38
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They should have called the laptop the theseus
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Jan 24, 2024 19:19
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I don’t know how far along it is but I’m pretty sure a third party is making an ortholinear keyboard for the framework.
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Jan 24, 2024 19:23
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njsykora posted:My main issue with them is that the house style is to end each guide with "to reassemble, follow these steps in reverse" which is not how reassembly works. Oh yeah I have found myself cursing at this pretty often
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Jan 24, 2024 19:25
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Related - this was a neat talk with the founders of Framework by Oxide Computer who are building their own servers from the ground up for on prem usage- the AWSs and Azures of the world are able to achieve so much by building their own systems instead of going with the mishmashes of dozens of semi-mutually compatible suppliers that are in a Dell system. https://oxide.computer/podcasts/oxide-and-friends/1632642
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Jan 24, 2024 19:52
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MarcusSA posted:I kinda felt this way about the first 3 minutes of that IBM video posted above. It could have definitely been done in 30 seconds. There's a lot of different people who want different things from retro tech videos. Like there are people who love watching soldering set to a techno soundtrack like it's ASMR. Me, I love the little details, both of any given device and also its history, so every time there's a magazine ad or article on the screen I'm hitting pause so I can read it.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:28
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Arivia posted:There's a lot of different people who want different things from retro tech videos. Like there are people who love watching soldering set to a techno soundtrack like it's ASMR. Me, I love the little details, both of any given device and also its history, so every time there's a magazine ad or article on the screen I'm hitting pause so I can read it. Yeah I get it! I’m not saying it’s bad it just felt long and drawn out to me. I just went back to look at the video and this made me laugh though  It’s definitely a channel I am now subscribed to and hope to see more content from.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:33
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MarcusSA posted:Yeah I get it! I’m not saying it’s bad it just felt long and drawn out to me. If I can explain myself a bit… (apologies for the words, I realize the irony here) First, I appreciate any feedback. I know that verbosity is one of my problems, and I’m always trying to be more concise. Especially when it comes to video, because everything needs coverage. EVERYTHING. So drawing out is bad because it means I have to do more work! I write scripts ahead of time; I’m not narrating already recorded footage that’s been edited together. The script gets written, then edited (often multiple times and sometimes with another person, but not in this case), recorded, filmed, resources assembled, video edited, etc. People don’t read blogs anymore and my previous delivery mechanism (podcasts) wasn’t getting any traction. That said, there’s a bunch of stuff that I left on the cutting room floor for this script, especially when it came to the BOPT patch. I also left out all the MCA history stuff, since this was a sequel to a previous video about PS/2s. I also wanted to bring in some more productivity apps or install OS/2, but the amount of time and effort it would have taken wouldn’t have made sense, and would be better off in separate videos anyway. But the story of how I got that machine is part of the narrative for the video. This is a deep dive history about not just the model 80 in general, but that specific example, and I felt I owed it to the guy who put in the effort to restore it and sell it to me for a bargain price. He saved me a lot of restoration time and that’s worth it. I also want to encourage people behaving properly when it comes to buying/selling equipment. That might be a bit soapboxy, but… hey, if I can get even one person to make better CL/FBM listings, it was worth it. I realize that might not be to some people’s taste, and that’s OK, but I’m not trying to “draw out” a video. If I made a video titled “How to change the CMOS battery on your PS/2” and it was ten minutes of “Hey youtube, so I went out to the shed today and blah blah blah” before actually telling you how to do it, then yeah. I get it, that’s annoying. But it’s not what I’m trying to do. I’m also not trying to do a “hey, I found a computer, here’s what’s in it” because I find that boring. Everything won’t be for everybody, but I’ll take any feedback and try to incorporate it into what I’m doing. So this’ll yet another log on the “hey, work on being more concise” fire and I’ll keep trying to improve. kefkafloyd fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 21:18
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kefkafloyd posted:“hey, I found a computer, here’s what’s in it” I dont watch unboxing videos or people opening packs of pokemon cards or whatever, because I don't really understand the appeal, but "Lets see whats in this ancient computer" is my jam, for some reason I cant explain, despite the fact that I know its fundamentally the same as seeing what pokemon cards you got
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Jan 24, 2024 21:56
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Beve Stuscemi posted:I dont watch unboxing videos or people opening packs of pokemon cards or whatever, because I don't really understand the appeal, but "Lets see whats in this ancient computer" is my jam, for some reason I cant explain, despite the fact that I know its fundamentally the same as seeing what pokemon cards you got "Let's see what viruses we have here.. oh another iloveyou dupe, drat"
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Jan 24, 2024 21:58
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Beve Stuscemi posted:I dont watch unboxing videos or people opening packs of pokemon cards or whatever, because I don't really understand the appeal, but "Lets see whats in this ancient computer" is my jam, for some reason I cant explain, despite the fact that I know its fundamentally the same as seeing what pokemon cards you got I absolutely agree with this take and I feel the same. Also thanks for your explanation on your processes! I think your content is really good.
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Jan 24, 2024 22:01
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MarcusSA posted:I absolutely agree with this take and I feel the same. Welcome to ancient PC Pokemon: https://www.youtube.com/@miketech1024/videos
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Jan 24, 2024 22:05
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Beve Stuscemi posted:I dont watch unboxing videos or people opening packs of pokemon cards or whatever, because I don't really understand the appeal, but "Lets see whats in this ancient computer" is my jam, for some reason I cant explain, despite the fact that I know its fundamentally the same as seeing what pokemon cards you got I’m trying to find it and can’t for the life of me remember where it was, but some “ancient PC Pokémon” guy recently thrifted a mid-2000s desktop that belonged to somebody who apparently ran some sort of adult blog and used it to put together thousands upon thousands of serious in-depth reviews of gay porn movies
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Jan 24, 2024 22:17
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Beve Stuscemi posted:I dont watch unboxing videos or people opening packs of pokemon cards or whatever, because I don't really understand the appeal, but "Lets see whats in this ancient computer" is my jam, for some reason I cant explain, despite the fact that I know its fundamentally the same as seeing what pokemon cards you got A reason why I’m not doing those style of off-the-cuff videos is that it requires speaking extemporaneously about things and I’m not that great without a script or planning my thoughts ahead of time. I’ve definitely done “I’ve found this random PC, let’s explore it” type stuff, but it’s always scripted out and I’m usually including a lot of history and other things with it. I have a lot of respect for people like Adrian who can just take an old box and tear it down “live” with minimal editing. He has a workflow that’s optimized for it and he’s got a good knack at talking to a camera with nobody else around. It also doesn’t help that I don’t have a setup conducive to doing that; everything I film is done in the corner of a room with little space to work in. I live in a small-ish apartment and I would kill to have a “studio room” with a lot of working space and permanently set-up lights, a work bench, etc. I do all my restoration work on my kitchen table. I’ve got several machines that I’d like to share and produce work about, but I’m a writer at heart and I want to make narrative content. You might like my video where I crack the BIOS passwords and other things on some old Toshiba laptops. I resisted making videos for a very long time, but the results over the past year can’t be denied—I’ve gotten a lot more people listening or engaging with my writing in the form of a video than a blog or podcast that nobody can find. It takes a lot more work—filming, editing, etc takes a lot of time and effort. But you gotta meet people with where they are, I guess. MarcusSA posted:I absolutely agree with this take and I feel the same. Thank you!
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Jan 24, 2024 22:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:I'd be surprised if there wasn't, just because of how much of production carbon footprint lies in logistics and shipping. Also modularization and system reliability are in tension. The entire history of electronics is that higher integration generally improves system reliability even though it decreases repairability. I don't pretend to know exactly where the carbon footprint minimum is on the dimension whose extremes are "LRU is the whole system" and "LRU is a single transistor", but it's not immediately obvious that a system design like Framework's is that optimal point, or whether it's better than a more integrated design. shorter version: Connectors are a gently caress
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Jan 25, 2024 00:09
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lol I just realised this is fake but the original is not much better  
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Jan 25, 2024 00:28
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I was moderately interested in framework until I saw their 7840u board was the same price as an entire rog ally. I'm someone who usually keeps a system for several years, I just replaced and handed down a haswell era Xeon system, but I can't afford to spend twice as much for the same specs.
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Jan 25, 2024 01:11
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... I mean, no, it's the eating of the food.
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Jan 25, 2024 01:40
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I dunno how the Framework chassis/screen quality compares with the top end lineups of the other Windows laptop makers or with Apple, but assuming it's in the same ballpark, the price starts looking more compelling once you upgrade the RAM and storage. Maxing out configurations in CAD: Framework 13 with 7840u, 64gb of ram and a 4tb SSD, Windows 11 Pro license, two type C and two type A ports: $3,157.00 24gb/2tb M3 8/10 core Macbook Pro 14: 3,349.00 24gb/2tb M2 8/10 core Macbook Air 13: $3,099.00 32gb/2tb Dell XPS 13 Plus(?) with Windows 11 Pro: $2,919.00 (but you can currently save like $400 by downgrading to Windows Home)
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Jan 25, 2024 02:41
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framework does also let you buy it without any RAM, SSD, OS or power supply so you can potentially save a bit more by getting those elsewhere
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Jan 25, 2024 03:01
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Isn't the hardware in the framework supposed to last longer? I remember reading a bunch of laptop reviews a while back and people generally have a hard time getting stuff from lenovo to last longer than 2 years or so.
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Jan 25, 2024 04:19
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Korean Boomhauer posted:Isn't the hardware in the framework supposed to last longer? I remember reading a bunch of laptop reviews a while back and people generally have a hard time getting stuff from lenovo to last longer than 2 years or so. drat Lenovos used to be fairly bulletproof, that sucks. Must have finally gotten rid of the ibm thinkpad teams.
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Jan 25, 2024 04:21
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Lenovos are still perfectly good and reliable business laptops.
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Jan 25, 2024 04:29
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VostokProgram posted:I think the ones framework actually offers are pretty stupid. The usb-a card has one port. cmon!! Yeah, they made some weird decisions there. The expansion cards are 30mm wide. To fit two USB A plugs, they would need to be about 35-36mm, which looks like it would still fit fine. It's also possible they thought it would be too much effort. But a USB C plug has enough pins to handle two independent USB A connections, so I wouldn't expect it to be a huge amount of effort.
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Jan 25, 2024 04:33
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Korean Boomhauer posted:Isn't the hardware in the framework supposed to last longer? I remember reading a bunch of laptop reviews a while back and people generally have a hard time getting stuff from lenovo to last longer than 2 years or so. priznat posted:drat Lenovos used to be fairly bulletproof, that sucks. Must have finally gotten rid of the ibm thinkpad teams. Reading blanket statements about any of the big 3 (Dell/Lenobo/HP) should be taken with a large grain of salt. All 3 of them make cheap poo poo for consumer market, and all 3 of them make extremely high quality laptops for the business and professional market. (and they make some models which are somewhat in-between.)
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Jan 25, 2024 04:54
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And then there's Acer
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Jan 25, 2024 05:12
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Did youtube get rid of the stupid overlay that recommends more poo poo when you pause a video? I can finally pause on benchmark screenshots without closing that edit: false alarm, it's still there, at least on embeds. Inept fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 06:02
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Korean Boomhauer posted:Isn't the hardware in the framework supposed to last longer? I remember reading a bunch of laptop reviews a while back and people generally have a hard time getting stuff from lenovo to last longer than 2 years or so. lol
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Jan 25, 2024 07:44
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Lenovo hardware is very good, deploy their business laptops for a reasonably sized company (100-150 employees) and really like them. Very easy to service, spare parts are simple to access and cheap to order replacements, even for very old stock. Once you're ordering $50k+ worth of gear per year you get access to insanely low pricing, generally take 40-50% off all RRP/Online prices at a minimum. That pricing is also generally available if you just ask for it as a consumer too, it's always worth talking to a sales agent. Spent quite a while investigating deploying Framework machines because yeah, it's a nice/cool concept. Aside from customising ports there really wasn't much of a point or value add. When you give a machine to an engineer or draftsperson or whatever that thing will be beat to poo poo after 2-3 years, I can't imagine a workplace where a chassis is surviving through the 3+ cycles it would need to to make the massively increased cost worth-while. The Lenovo gear I purchase still has non-soldered RAM, still have one or two NVME slots, still have easy to replace batteries and keyboards so needs-based upgrades and repairs are 99% covered. Most of our machines are 16" and the Framework 16 specs line up perfectly with what I normally purchase. 40% more expensive. Especially coming from a small and unproven manufacturer there's just no way I can justify that. The general idea and philosophy of Framework laptops doesn't fit the reality where there are still plenty of OEM's offering fairly easy to upgrade and service machines.
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