|
The sting behind calling someone a "hanzo main" wasn't cause Hanzo was bad or anything, he was pretty broken very early on. The sting was because 90% of people that locked Hanzo in like the first few months after OW1 release blew rear end at him and refused to switch, so you were essentially calling someone selfish+worthless. It was less a jab at Hanzo as a character and more a jab at some of the types of people who played OW early on.
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 07:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 13:47 |
|
|
Proven posted:The most frustrating games were the ones where a friend consistently tried to force objective when it wasn’t smart too, just because of the faster progress time. Travel time from spawn being unchanged meant that taking a disadvantaged fight was really bad, so you really needed to keep your zen and properly create an opening to get on point. You needed to keep in mind that you only need one good fight to take a Flashpoint or Control Point, and then only 1-2 fights to keep and win it, so stay chill. Any time someone didn’t do that, it felt like one of those 1-2 fights was immediately lost, which was frustrating. Payload and Push gave you enough fights still that that specifically didn’t bother me as much. Also, I did play Hybrid but it felt exactly like playing Payload, so no big deal there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 14:45
|
|
|
Honjo
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 15:12
|
|
|
I think its funny that the most popular modes seem to be the ones where people are playing the game LESS. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but it just seems strange the biggest draw to play more OW2 is playing less OW2 per sitting. Also I called the passive heal thing out like 2 years ago and I'm glad they have taken my expert balancing advice. It became SUPER DUPER clear that passive healing should be on everyone once they added it to supports in that changeover. Its the dumbest poo poo to have players limp around for minutes at a time, waiting for that selfish/bad/greifing/tunnel visioned healer to heal the low HP dps or even other support that is pinned down. You could literally sway entire matches by doing a bad job at support on purpose and leaving your team at 10% hp until they can all safely get healthpacks. Adding the passive is as much an anti greifing measure as it is to make the game actually function. I'm actually really surprised at all the hate for this change, I would have thought it'd be a huge boon to the community.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 17:27
|
|
|
Its getting negative feedback because they tried hard to push the competitive aspect of this game and its just another change in a long line of changes that feels anti competitive. There's also the general feeling that the game has too much healing anyway and they've just added more
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 17:30
|
|
|
dogstile posted:There's also the general feeling that the game has too much healing anyway and they've just added more I'm a support main and for me it's this + making the class have an even less defined identity than it already does.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 17:33
|
|
|
dogstile posted:Its getting negative feedback because they tried hard to push the competitive aspect of this game and its just another change in a long line of changes that feels anti competitive. I think that is 100% true, the healing is WAY over tuned. But this isn't that. If anything the self healing on supports is over tuned as it is now. What they're adding to everyone is a small version of that specifically designed to work between fights and be less reliant on clutch support plays and/or greifing plays from supp players who aren't on their A game. But the general idea of healing being too much in this game is 100% spot on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 17:35
|
|
|
This is a good idea but I have zero faith in blizzard implementing it in a balanced way. Also, blizzard is terrible at balancing and has been for like all of Overwatch’s existence, so it’s no surprise that people aren’t giving them any benefit of a doubt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 17:36
|
|
|
The highs of Overwatch come from when everyone is working as a team. The lows come from when everyone is off doing their own strategy. Everyone getting slight self-healing is one of the actions to reduce the pain of those low point matches. So I’m for it, even as a Support Main. To me, it’s more thought out than what they did at the start of OW2, where they wanted to balance so that there wasn’t the need to hero swap (because of new players and heroes in the battle pass) but then they also added in the ult cost refund just in case you wanted to anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2024 19:50
|
|
|
Lord Packinham posted:This is a good idea but I have zero faith in blizzard implementing it in a balanced way. Also, blizzard is terrible at balancing and has been for like all of Overwatch’s existence, so it’s no surprise that people aren’t giving them any benefit of a doubt. They have been pretty poo poo the entire life span, but most of OW1 it was because they had a vision for the type of game they wanted OW to be that differed quite a bit from the perception the average person had of OW. In the case of OW2, it feels like its devs that may or may not have been around back then, who have no idea what the hell they are trying to do. who don't play their own game at all, trying to balance the game almost entirely around statistical analysis of stuff that is misleading to begin with because it doesn't fit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
I guess the question is who spends more on microtransactions? Teenage genji mains that want to solo flank and masturbate about their carry ability? Or sweaty RPG nerds that want to micromanage the team game while heal beaming? I really don't know the answer. For a while, OW was trying to cater to the latter. Now they seem to be trying to recapture the former.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 01:54
|
|
|
Javik the Seer posted:I think that is 100% true, the healing is WAY over tuned. But this isn't that. If anything the self healing on supports is over tuned as it is now. there's too much healing in the game but also this new addition of somehow even more healing is good? how does that reasoning work also idk how you can say that it is meant to work between fights to top people off, which is a time when literally no one relied on clutch support plays or gave a gently caress about griefing plays from support players and no one even needs healing then anyways because you can just grab a health pack. the only time either of those things matter is during fights headcase posted:I guess the question is who spends more on microtransactions? Teenage genji mains that want to solo flank and masturbate about their carry ability? Or sweaty RPG nerds that want to micromanage the team game while heal beaming? they've been trying to recapture the people who moved on from the game years ago for years now and it's bizarre because the actual remaining playerbase is genuinely dedicated to the game and the people who are gone are long, long gone. hell you talk to most former ow players about going back to the game and they'll just laugh at the suggestion of ever playing it again Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 02:16
|
|
|
It's as simple as they don't have a consistent vision of whether they're designing a game for casuals or for sweaty diehards, so each individual decision they make tries to pull in one direction or the other and the gestalt is incoherent. Witness the way so many of their balance decisions are made in aggregate across all skill ranks. Heroes with a high skill floor are naturally going to underperform at low ranks. That doesn't mean they need to be buffed into stupidity, because that makes their available power at high ranks simply ludicrous. Heroes with a high skill ceiling doing well at high ranks doesn't mean they need to be nerfed into uselessness, because then they literally can't be played at low ranks. Then there's the reactive changes. Supports are having a rough time because they're naturally defenceless so they get dove and hunted and killed over and over. So give all supports big defensive abilities. Whoops, that turns them into Terminators. Unintended! How do we fix this? Well, let's give the other roles the same sort of thing. While making lip service noises about global reductions to healing and damage. Imagine the game with all damage sources reduced by say 30% to smooth out the spikiness they don't like. And the ability to easily disengage, stand around a corner and get back to full, then rejoin the fight. You think nothing dies *now*? It won't matter if they reduce healing abilities correspondingly - they would need to reduce them *more* than damage to change the needle overall. Single team fights are going to be endless. At lower ranks respawns can already trickle back in and keep fighting because kills are so slow.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 02:49
|
|
|
also it's the kind of announcement that could be a big deal or could be basically nothing depending entirely on how it's implemented, and it touches a system people already have a lot of feelings about on both a "I don't like how this feels in game" and a "I don't like the dev team's approach to balancing it" level, and the announcement provided minimal details while making noise about the direction of the game ("We still want Overwatch to be defined by team strategy and mechanics, but we feel this can be pulled back a bit now and possibly more in the future."). It's basically tailor-made as an announcement to cause emotional reactions that can't be meaningfully justified or interrogated (except I don't think it actually is, I just think they don't really care and the target audience for their press releases isn't the players).
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 03:01
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:they've been trying to recapture the people who moved on from the game years ago for years now and it's bizarre because the actual remaining playerbase is genuinely dedicated to the game and the people who are gone are long, long gone. hell you talk to most former ow players about going back to the game and they'll just laugh at the suggestion of ever playing it again That is my take as well. I am someone that Loved OW1 from beginning to end. Really, every meta was interesting (my least favorite being the short lived widow dominant phase). The 5v5, the new modes, and the absence of 2CP has pretty much ruined it for me and it continues to get worse. FPS players have moved on. Let me play the goofy cartoony scrum game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 03:11
|
|
|
Personally I think the 5v5 change was the death knell because it was clearly designed to make the competitive matches more easy to watch and understand what's going on, but now that OWL is dead it just means that tank has become the most thankless role in the game and it's even harder to recover from an early pick or bad start to a teamfight. It exacerbates the snowballing of matches and it's left poor wrecking ball as a sad shell of its former self
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 04:06
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:Personally I think the 5v5 change was the death knell because it was clearly designed to make the competitive matches more easy to watch and understand what's going on, but now that OWL is dead it just means that tank has become the most thankless role in the game and it's even harder to recover from an early pick or bad start to a teamfight. It exacerbates the snowballing of matches and it's left poor wrecking ball as a sad shell of its former self i actually think it was for the opposite reason: 5v5 reduces queue times by axing a slot for what's usually the least popular role in any multiplayer game, and, at least in theory, accelerates the pace of the game by lowering TTK via reduced shield spam the real problem comes down to OW1 having a formula that was poorly conceived and whose problems snowballed due to a lack of care when it came to future hero design, and OW2's attempts to solve them are halfhearted and created new replacement problems. it's true that TTK is, in theory, lower due to a lack of shield protection, but the consequence of that for both the players and the devs has been a trend towards prioritizing safety and minimizing risk both in general gameplay and hero design. kiriko having two extremely strong escape tools and having low cost sniper missiles is a reflection of that philosophy. i want to say that the passive heal change is their attempt to partially fix this by making it easier for characters that can't sit back and shoot to engage with the game, but whether that'll actually move the needle is another question entirely
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 04:20
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:there's too much healing in the game but also this new addition of somehow even more healing is good? how does that reasoning work Between fights can sometimes matter more than during fights. If you're say, a Cassidy or Genji and you're in prime position to flank, but you can't engage because you're at 20 HP and the mercy is tied to the hip of the respawning or out of position Rein, then yeah, it absolutely matters. It means they are down a flanker for the entire fight because of what happened between them. Instead, now the flankers or stragglers can actually afford to contribute instead of being boxed out, afraid to move, or in higher level play, just camped because the enemy KNOWS you need to get a health pack and they can just guard that route. Same for folks who get chip damaged on the way out of spawn. Its actually quite effective to widow or ashe poke someone from a distance, not kill them, but hurt them enough that a savvy team knows they will be entering a fight with 50% HP. This forces the support to perform well and top off, something they may not be good enough or care enough to do. Now they can just limp their way to the front line and not have to waste healing resources on them just to participate. Seriously, if this was implemented seasons ago when they brought them out the first time, I think we'd see a lot better dynamics in the games and maybe even some nerfs to the healing going on. They DO need to nerf the healing from supps though as it is, it shouldn't be anywhere near it is now for anyone. It should be like a full 3 to 5 seconds instead of the short time it is now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 05:37
|
|
|
I think one way to solve a lingering issue with both supports and tanks is to make the DPS passive cause stacks of healing reduction to slowly accumulate on tanks. There is no way to remove the stacks via abilities (so for example, Zarya cannot bubble them off, nor can Kiriko suzu them away), and they must either fall off one at a time by avoiding taking damage, or by dying. This both makes healing somewhat less effective, and also makes tanks less obnoxious with their sustainability over a long fight. It would be very gradual build up, like say for every 50 damage done by one hero (applied individually by either DPS), a 1% debuff is applied, and maybe for every 4 or 5 seconds a tank takes no damage for, 1% falls off. after taking no damage for 10 seconds, they fall off at 3x speed. This could also create some interesting strategies where you try to stay engaged with tanks on poke heroes even while there is no fight going on, albeit at higher risk of staggering, in order to maintain a stack advantage for the next fight. If 1%/50 seems like too little impact, make it accumulate at 35 damage. If it seems like too much, 65. BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jan 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 05:54
|
|
|
Javik the Seer posted:Between fights can sometimes matter more than during fights. If you're say, a Cassidy or Genji and you're in prime position to flank, but you can't engage because you're at 20 HP and the mercy is tied to the hip of the respawning or out of position Rein, then yeah, it absolutely matters. It means they are down a flanker for the entire fight because of what happened between them. Instead, now the flankers or stragglers can actually afford to contribute instead of being boxed out, afraid to move, or in higher level play, just camped because the enemy KNOWS you need to get a health pack and they can just guard that route. Same for folks who get chip damaged on the way out of spawn. Its actually quite effective to widow or ashe poke someone from a distance, not kill them, but hurt them enough that a savvy team knows they will be entering a fight with 50% HP. This forces the support to perform well and top off, something they may not be good enough or care enough to do. Now they can just limp their way to the front line and not have to waste healing resources on them just to participate. if you have time to regen at 2hp/s you have time to grab a health pack, it's truly irrelevant between fights. if you're so out of position that they can just camp the health packs the play is to just die and reset and extremely not to hide at 20hp. hell in really any situation where your team lost the fight and you're at 20 hp you should just die to reset. if you're out of position at 20 hp and you don't die before you'd just stagger and give 20hp of ult charge, with this change you'd now stagger and also give 200hp of ult charge lol the bolded part is irrelevant outside of like bronze play. if your supports can't heal chip damage on people your team has huge, huge problems Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jan 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 07:54
|
|
|
Passive healing is something Gundam Evolution had, but that was because that game wasn't married to an MMO trinity design and every player needed the option to reset and regroup with their team if they could manage to escape from a bad engagement. Instead it was married to an insanely greedy and incompetent publisher and a baffling insistence on structuring "casual" queue games along the lines of the same strict competitive format as OW comp, with no backfill. It's amazing how much worse Bamco was at managing a live service game than Blizzard of all people but there you go.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 11:14
|
|
|
remove tanks and healers from the game
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 11:15
|
|
|
Runa posted:Passive healing is something Gundam Evolution had, but that was because that game wasn't married to an MMO trinity design and every player needed the option to reset and regroup with their team if they could manage to escape from a bad engagement. It worked in gundam bacause the only healtanks you had at release was the lucio clone and the soldier clone. God that game was good
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 11:27
|
|
|
I feel like the main result of this is going to be Dive coming back in a big way, so I guess the needle for supports is going to swing back to "miserable" EDIT: just realised that Sombra is going to have perma-invis always on healing, lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2024 11:40
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:if you have time to regen at 2hp/s you have time to grab a health pack, it's truly irrelevant between fights. if you're so out of position that they can just camp the health packs the play is to just die and reset and extremely not to hide at 20hp. hell in really any situation where your team lost the fight and you're at 20 hp you should just die to reset. if you're out of position at 20 hp and you don't die before you'd just stagger and give 20hp of ult charge, with this change you'd now stagger and also give 200hp of ult charge lol What are you talking about? You basically are saying what I said is the problem is actually cool and good. Good players will know where healthpacks are. If they plink you coming out of spawn/rejoining the team they will immediately go to where the nearest healthpack is and just dive it or zone you out. The passive regen allows you to actually make use of your life instead of gambling on a team coming to help you or somehow winning your little duel or even catching a stray shot. I feel like what you are describing is why OW is often considered not fun by a lot of players, especially new players. Immediately dying in order to "play better" isn't exactly riveting gameplay and taking steps to make that less the case should be encouraging. Or rather would be if it was 3 years ago instead of today. And to the point about bronze play, a lot of times players will intentionally not do a role because they disagree with a hero selection or a route selection or they just aren't paying attention. They will literally tell people "go grab a health pack, I want to heal this Roadhog" and then the person inevitably dies because of the refusal to heal or cover. It happens all the time, especially at higher levels of play. Creating fewer fail points in a team play game like this is GOOD.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 00:04
|
|
|
Less fail points isn't inherently a good thing in a skill based game, imo. The really fun high skill metas (dive being the main one for that) had loads of fail points, but it was fun to watch pro's do it (and fun to play it) because you'd be able to manage all that. For a lot of us less fail points is also more boring 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 00:16
|
|
|
Dying to reset and prevent staggers/feeding is indeed bad design but also that's just the game at this point and regen will only make the penalty of not playing optimally like that worse. I'm skeptical of the niche scenarios where it might make a difference that you suggest. Say someone takes 50 damage on the way in and the mercy is for some reason convinced that roadhog needs a full pocket, if the regen is 2hp/s then they're out of the fight for 25 seconds. if it is a 5 second delay and then 5hp/s, then they're out of the fight for 15 seconds. if it is a flat 10hp/s then they're out of the fight for 5 seconds. the first two would be hard throws for someone to just go hide and regen for 15 or 25 seconds at the start of a fight, hell that's equivalent to a horrible stagger. the latter is quick enough to be impactful, but now everyone has a 10hp/s regen and lol god help us all. Or, situation 4, any support can change focus for 1-2 seconds and top them up. the correct play in virtually every situation is to just get healed by your support, plus it generates ult charge for your support and self-healing almost certainly will not. If you do the math with needing to recover 120hp it gets even more non-workable. There might be a middle ground of regen that is quick enough to be impactful while not breaking the game, though blizzard has little chance of actually finding that point. Even if they made it a 10hp/s regen it would still be optimal in every case to get a support to heal you because of how good support ults are. Self-regenerating damage just increases the ult advantage of your opponents. it's a newby trap Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jan 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 00:34
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:Dying to reset and prevent staggers/feeding is indeed bad design but also that's just the game at this point and regen will only make the penalty of not playing optimally like that worse. You're not wrong that its technically better for a support to heal to get that ult charge. Absolutely in a perfect world that isn't' a problem with good team play. However, even at high level play but this isn't about the uptime or downtime, its about the opportunity costs of doing so. If someone is out for the same 20 seconds as you say vs dying and respawning, there are still opportunity costs to doing so. Dying helps the enemy team confirm that you're down a player, may help them build ult charge, and frees them up from having to worry about that player that might still be lurking. Knowing that they are going to eventually heal up OR get a healthpack OR get healed is different than knowing for sure they CANNOT get health without their supports disengaging. It really does matter when you put it into an ongoing fight context. Its also more fun for the person who got dinked. Knowing you're doomed to die because you happen to not have auto regen and you know your zen isn't going to get to you basically means an enemy can DQ you from fights without even really outplaying you. Knowing you're "1" is enough. This provides more flexibility in these cases so players aren't reliant upon supports to be good, and instead rely on THEMSELVES to play better. dogstile posted:Less fail points isn't inherently a good thing in a skill based game, imo. The really fun high skill metas (dive being the main one for that) had loads of fail points, but it was fun to watch pro's do it (and fun to play it) because you'd be able to manage all that. It depends where they are and how much it matters to which character and role.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 01:03
|
|
|
'technically better' is one helluva understatement idk what you're basing all the midfight stuff on, but that's just not really how ow works when played at all seriously. unless the regen is incredibly overtuned it has basically no bearing on a fight. if a dude is regening at 2hp/s he's just as one as if he isn't regenerating for as long as the fight is likely to last. like how long do fights actually last from the full engage to one team being down a tank/two players/an ult combo ends it? 15-30 seconds? the only way you get any real uncertainty is if you have some crazy level of healing where someone can duck into cover for 5-10 seconds and re-emerge full hp, which would be one of the single worst received changes to OW ever conceived if that's how it goes through. Most of what you're describing sounds like you're imagining a roaming (ahem out of position) dps to top off gradually when the reality is that they're just out of position and misplaying. Why are these hypothetical players so far from their supports anyways? i'm very skeptical of the impact on the game of making dps feel even less like they need to know where their supports are vOv like in OW2 you've got 3 players and 2 healers with insane hps throughput to keep them topped off, the idea that there's no moments of healing to be spared is comical. I'm also wary of the idea that blizzard is adding a mechanic where the optimal play is to hide in a corner doing nothing during a team fight. If that's incentivized then lol people are going to do it Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jan 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 01:32
|
|
|
it helps the players with OCD who get healed to 191 and then the ana looks elsewhere
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 02:23
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:it helps the players with OCD who get healed to 191 and then the ana looks elsewhere I'll give you that, being at 19-something is really annoying 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 03:47
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:it helps the players with OCD who get healed to 191 and then the ana looks elsewhere lmao good point
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 04:20
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:it helps the players with OCD who get healed to 191 and then the ana looks elsewhere Hey fights are won and lost on that HP difference, it actually DOES matter on top of being irritating. Herstory Begins Now posted:'technically better' is one helluva understatement I'm not saying it is going to have a bearin IN a fight. I'm saying it impacts the flow and momentum of a game in a positive manner by removing the onus on supports to over perform and/or stop them from griefing. I'm also partial to the change because its something I've advocated for role-wide since it came out for this very reason. Its a bit silly a healer can limp away from a fight from pro moves and survive to get to their buddies but no one else can despite performing the same way. Let folks soft reset without relying on someone to do it in these down times. And the griefing both intentional or not is real in even high ranks. "I'm not healing you, you're only 8 hp short lol thats dumb i'm not going around that wall to top you off" * dps gets hit for 193 damage, causes preventable death due to healer stupidity*
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 04:29
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:it helps the players with OCD who get healed to 191 and then the ana looks elsewhere It brings the ashe breakpoint into play. Probably others too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 15:13
|
|
|
A fully-charged Soj rail to the dome does 195 damage so yeah getting topped off is actually important.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2024 17:48
|
|
|
OWL is back baby! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J0LnRPLs4Q Format seems ok idk, I’m sure a bunch of people will find some reason or another to make this the worst thing ever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 23:59
|
|
|
I like it, a more bottom-up approach.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 09:56
|
|
|
https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/overwatch-2/overwatch-shop-adds-a-fifth-new-virtual-currency-in-form-of-faustian-bargain/
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 19:30
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1750527609312817361 1900 people out from Mircosoft-Act Blizz like 3 days after Riot laid off 11% of it's workforce. This year is going to be a bloodbath......sigh
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 17:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 13:47 |
|
|
Layoffs are rough on everyone. https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/overwatch-2/blizzard-lays-off-healers/
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 17:47
|
|