Buddhism Thread: Bitch I just told you about kshitigarbha

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Buddhism Thread: Bitch I just told you about kshitigarbha

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Tea Party Crasher posted:

It's funny, whenever I feel like I have a strong grip on upholding the 5th precept, I'm presented with an opportunity and immediately find myself bargaining, wanting to grasp and make excuses (to be social, today was stressful, etc).

It makes me feel like The idea of mastery is a misleading concept, at least for me. The word mastery evokes this idea of completion, or a set immutable quality. It's early on in my practice to say this but I feel that I'll always be starting again and again, and the real work is consistency that I'll always be striving for

We are all just starting out, I figure. I can understand the pure land people better when I�ve had ten thousand distractions from trying to do a five minute meditation.

# ? Dec 5, 2023 23:15

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# ? May 21, 2024 12:26

Thirteen Orphans: Dec 2, 2012; I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

# ? Dec 19, 2023 23:31

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

I'm not skilled or wise enough to give a good answer, but I know that my teacher would try to nudge me out of the intellectual framing mindset.

Coming from the Zen perspective, I personally appreciate Suzuki roshi's metaphor of life being the experience of a drop of water

# ? Dec 19, 2023 23:47

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

lucretius - an epicurean - got it right with his symmetry argument. from book 3 of on the order of things:

look back also and see how the ages of everlasting time past before we were born have been to us nothing. this therefore is a mirror which nature holds up to us, showing the time to come after we at length shall die. is there anything horrible in that? is there anything gloomy? is it not more peaceful than any sleep?

now that doesn't _obviously_ jive perfectly with a buddhist perspective, but it does if you look at it. for lucretius/epicurus, there is nothing after death. you're gone. not so for buddhists (sort of). yoru death occasions a birth, suffering continues unless you attain enlightenment. so the buddhist response is twofold:

1. i either attain nibbana and everything's good, or i do the bodhisattva thing and help everyone attain it, and in the fullness of time all are liberated and everything is good. in either case, things end up in a good place and the variable is number of lifetimes. but let's assume that we don't get an out and move on.
2. _i_ i am dead and gone. i don't need to worry about _that_. sure something else will be born, and that thing will suffer as will all things subject to samsara, but me fretting about it doesn't do anything. so, the symmetry argument holds: im not all freaked out about the suffering being whose death occasioned my birth, so why would i be bothered about the suffering of a being whose birth is occasioned by my death?

and framing it that way - drawing a perfect analogy to something that we _really don't_ worry about, ever - is much more effective for letting-go of death anxiety than, like, hoping for nibbana (as in #1) or whatever. now obviously when my life is immediately threatened still get scared, it's not like that is an easily dropped response, but this is the argument that really wormed its way into my brain and took hold in a way that other arguments do not, subjectively speaking. similarly, this only really works for _me_. i do not feel similarly about eg my son's death. which reveals something about the horror of his death not being a horror at something _he_ would face, but the horror of _my_ having to interact with a world without him in it, and so on and so forth. but that's starting to get a bit far afield of the original question.

Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 20, 2023

# ? Dec 20, 2023 00:05

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

At least specifically with death, I expect it to be subjectively quite similar to the experience of not existing, which is something that we've all experienced before we were conceived or born. I don't expect the next round of non-existence to feel all that different from the last round of it. Which is to say that intellectually I see basically nothing good or bad to fear.

With that said, the process of dying looks quite unpleasant (albeit death seems to be less of something to fear compared to the experience of having cancer ravage your body). Similarly, while the idea of death doesn't trouble me at all, the loss of my loved ones or being unable to see the family or friends that I'm most attached to would hit me by far the hardest. That's the thing I fear and that has power over me.

There's a variety of long and pretty involved answers to the question, but redirecting it at practically what do many practicing buddhists do to take away some of the intensity of the fears around mortality? the big thing seems to be some variety of basically exposure therapy. If you read thousand year old stuff they'll talk about spending time in cemeteries or charnel grounds (and while I'd highly recommend taking walks in particularly scenic cemeteries just because) that's a hard encouragement to match up with modern life. Practically one of the consistent things you'll notice with practicing buddhists is that it seems like every third one has worked in health care or hospice work or similar. There's likely an element of chicken-or-the-egg there, but in terms of what has actually been the big thing behind many of the most down-to-earth people I've met wrt mortality, it's mostly palliative care nurses and hospice workers. The other big thing you can do practically is to make sure you're living life in a way that values the time you're fortunate to have.

Finally I think a fear of death and some amount of anxiety around it is a natural and to a real extent a healthy thing. It's one of the most innately self-protective instincts or urges possible, and while it's something you probably do want to weaken the grip of, it's definitely not something to shed utterly. Because it's so obviously a survival instinct it's no surprise that it's an anxiety that can get counterproductively overcharged. Often acknowledging it and being grateful that it is there loosens its grip, too. The more things get pushed away the more power they seem to gain over us.

I want to write a ton more words about this but idk I'm tired and probably should cut it off here.

# ? Dec 20, 2023 02:30

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

Other people had good responses but the one that often hushes me up is something along the lines of 'given the sheer scale of the universe, my rebirth would quite likely been on a planet other than Earth, and so in death I would satisfy one of my greatest dreams and hopes - one which will be barely, or never, fulfilled in my lifetime, unless it is greatly extended.'

It's ultimately an irrelevancy but it sort of bridges the gap between where I am when I feel such anxieties, and the peace in the sutras and in the moments of absorption.

# ? Dec 20, 2023 02:45

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

your rebirth is also quite literal on earth in the form of the inevitable decomposition and then recomposition into the local flora and fauna, which imo is pretty loving nifty in its own right

# ? Dec 20, 2023 02:50

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

Achmed Jones posted:

and framing it that way - drawing a perfect analogy to something that we _really don't_ worry about, ever - is much more effective for letting-go of death anxiety than, like, hoping for nibbana (as in #1) or whatever. now obviously when my life is immediately threatened still get scared, it's not like that is an easily dropped response, but this is the argument that really wormed its way into my brain and took hold in a way that other arguments do not, subjectively speaking. similarly, this only really works for _me_. i do not feel similarly about eg my son's death. which reveals something about the horror of his death not being a horror at something _he_ would face, but the horror of _my_ having to interact with a world without him in it, and so on and so forth. but that's starting to get a bit far afield of the original question.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

With that said, the process of dying looks quite unpleasant (albeit death seems to be less of something to fear compared to the experience of having cancer ravage your body). Similarly, while the idea of death doesn't trouble me at all, the loss of my loved ones or being unable to see the family or friends that I'm most attached to would hit me by far the hardest. That's the thing I fear and that has power over me.

There's a variety of long and pretty involved answers to the question, but redirecting it at practically what do many practicing buddhists do to take away some of the intensity of the fears around mortality? the big thing seems to be some variety of basically exposure therapy. If you read thousand year old stuff they'll talk about spending time in cemeteries or charnel grounds (and while I'd highly recommend taking walks in particularly scenic cemeteries just because) that's a hard encouragement to match up with modern life. Practically one of the consistent things you'll notice with practicing buddhists is that it seems like every third one has worked in health care or hospice work or similar. There's likely an element of chicken-or-the-egg there, but in terms of what has actually been the big thing behind many of the most down-to-earth people I've met wrt mortality, it's mostly palliative care nurses and hospice workers. The other big thing you can do practically is to make sure you're living life in a way that values the time you're fortunate to have.

Finally I think a fear of death and some amount of anxiety around it is a natural and to a real extent a healthy thing. It's one of the most innately self-protective instincts or urges possible, and while it's something you probably do want to weaken the grip of, it's definitely not something to shed utterly. Because it's so obviously a survival instinct it's no surprise that it's an anxiety that can get counterproductively overcharged. Often acknowledging it and being grateful that it is there loosens its grip, too. The more things get pushed away the more power they seem to gain over us.

I like these responses because they touch on something that I believe can help us in all aspects of our practice: curiosity about what underlies our feelings and how they arise / continue.

The reason that I posted the Suzuki lecture is that I think it expresses beautifully something I think we all can relate to concerning death which is the end of our selfness. What we currently are is an amalgamation of conditions and matter and karma which form our temporary bodies and minds, something we have to eventually give up when conditions no longer support these forms. I think intellectually we all like the idea of "being one with everything", but really it's actually quite pleasant and interesting at times to be separate and individual. You get all these nice feelings, opinions, an identity, descript and specific love from others- All possible because we have this "self".

Of course everything that I just described as nice probably exposes attachment- which could underlie why I'm scared to die. There are many things that I love about being this one, and there are many things I love about others that I would be sad to see dispersed and repurposed in the grand scheme of things

Anyway this is all a lot of rambling, but TLDR my school always encourages us to "see what we are up to" and I often find that helpful for trying to understand my feelings, rather than solve them. I hope something in this thread can help you and give you peace

# ? Dec 20, 2023 02:58

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

Herstory Begins Now posted:

your rebirth is also quite literal on earth in the form of the inevitable decomposition and then recomposition into the local flora and fauna, which imo is pretty loving nifty in its own right

Agreed I think that's :krad:

# ? Dec 20, 2023 03:03

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Herstory Begins Now posted:

your rebirth is also quite literal on earth in the form of the inevitable decomposition and then recomposition into the local flora and fauna, which imo is pretty loving nifty in its own right

Yeah I agree with that too. I feel like there has to be some sort of quanta which moves onwards in some way tho, because it feels like if you specifically exclude things outside of current science you're kind of adding a lot of additional interpretation to the sutras. And that's not wrong, and I think for many people it helps them reach the practice; for me it had the opposite effect.

Ultimately I arose, I endure, I decay, and I will some day end; the same is true for all things.

# ? Dec 20, 2023 03:11

nice obelisk idiot: May 18, 2023; funerary linens looking like dishrags

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

Determined (not consistent) concentration practice helped me with fear of death in itself. It gave me the stability to remain mindful through anxieties about bodily processes and phenomena. I didn't direct it towards that stuff but that's where it went. I'm a big hypocrite here though as I've been avoiding practicing too much concentration recently for other reasons.

Related to that- fear of our death or the death of another is not one thing. It's a composite of many, many different anxieties and emotions. We don't need to address all of them at once day 1 of practicing. And every day is supposed to be like day 1.

Practice of the four immeasurables can lead to a more accepting, curious attitude towards unsettling things in ourselves and others. Satipatthana the same. A concentration practice that enters into and equalizes every moment of life like breathing or practicing a mantra such as Buddo or Mu is good. Basically anything, it varies on what works for one's individual character. Kind of a non-answer.

Philosophically I would say that the citta (heart-mind) was never born and never dies in ourselves and others. Practice is said to reveal direct and constant insight into this.

nice obelisk idiot fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Dec 20, 2023

# ? Dec 20, 2023 03:27

Virgil Vox: Dec 8, 2009

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

A few ways: Mindfulness of death (maranasati), body contemplation (patikulamanasikara) and recollection of the divine messengers (devaduta), in brief...

Mindfulness of Death: You can die at any time, on your commute to job, a wild animal, natural disaster, something hidden in your health. Are there unwholesome qualities you posses that will be an obstacle if you where to die today? Practice NOW! As a skilled driver would correct a cars steering when skidding on black ice, or as a cook would immediately attend to an overboiling pot. Mindfulness of death at any time arises a sense of urgency. The Buddha sets a high bar for this, saying you should recollect this often: like every few seconds (AN 6.19). Corpse meditation and observing the stages of a decaying body is still done in some cultures to raise this awareness.

Body Contemplation: The body is repulsive. What happens if it does not get washed for a few days? It smells, it gets oily, it gets clothes dirty. Look at the outside of the body: hair, skin, teeth, nails, eyes*; these are all dead. Every time you look upon another person everything you see is dead. You do not control your body; the body does not ask to age or ask to grow or ask to get cold or ask to get tired or energetic. When you get old and ask your body to get up & run it may not obey. So many defilements are rooted in the body. We become intoxicated by the sensations it receives. The less attached you are to your body at death the better. This is not to say you should start hating your body or make a negative self image! You are borrowing this collection of matter, and when we borrow something we take good care of it; just observe the body for what it really is. We practice mindfulness of the body so that when the body is broken the heart will not be broken with it. (a few suttas on this: MN 119 & "the 32 parts of the body" is well known)

Divine Messengers: The Buddha tells a story of a man recently deceased who now appears in a lower realm: The man is put before King Yama who asks "did you not see the divine messengers?". The man responds "I did not sir." King Yama: "did you not see a sick person? an old person? a dead person?". The man says "I did see those sir". King Yama: "did you not think those states would come to myself and I'd better do good in conduct?". The man: "I was negligent sir". You are subject to old age, you are subject to illness, you are subject to death; it is inevitable. Anytime you observe old people, sick people, dead persons it is a personal warning or reminder that these also apply to you, live this life with correct speech, action, and thoughts then you will not be worried about woeful states after death. (MN 130)

As humans we are uniquely positioned to observe these things; In a heaven realm the signs are few or subtler. These practices may evoke fear & aversion at first but will yield wisdom, you are observing reality as it truly is. Insight into death is a door to awakening. And lastly we've died immeasurable times before.

*technically the eye may not be dead idk not an optician(?) but bear with me

# ? Dec 20, 2023 03:29

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Schisming over the question of opto-vitality

# ? Dec 20, 2023 04:13

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Y'all got any practice resolutions for the New Year?

I'm thinking of setting one but I'm not sure if I should aim high or go for the basics.

# ? Dec 20, 2023 17:06

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

I'd like to go to one of the meditation retreats the Kwan Um school holds. Go sit for a couple of days as one does

Tea Party Crasher fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 20, 2023

# ? Dec 20, 2023 17:14

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

i dont really mess with new years resolutions

but i did reserve a couple weeks at a monastery to do a retreat thing so thatll be interesting

# ? Dec 20, 2023 18:07

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Achmed Jones posted:

i dont really mess with new years resolutions

but i did reserve a couple weeks at a monastery to do a retreat thing so thatll be interesting

Oh nice, like a full silent thing or more laid back?

# ? Dec 20, 2023 18:28

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

its not full on silent since you need to coordinate eg chores with other people, but its basically "go to the monastery (that is ostensibly always in retreat-mode), do what they tell you." so i expect to do a lot of meditation and some cooking or weeding or feeding the monks or whatever chores they point me at. i'm not gonna make any big plans though, i'll just show up and see how it goes.

it's not a "hey laypeople, come and get enlightened at the official 2024 retreat" though. it's more "we have some rooms and platforms, show up if you want" and i'm like "yeah ok that sounds pretty good"

# ? Dec 20, 2023 21:22

nice obelisk idiot: May 18, 2023; funerary linens looking like dishrags

Nessus posted:

Y'all got any practice resolutions for the New Year?

I'm thinking of setting one but I'm not sure if I should aim high or go for the basics.

1: adopting some kind of consistent devotional aspect to practice, to deepen sincerity and to develop a healthier sense of urgency.

2: working on sympathetic joy. I have a hard time not feeling ill-will towards people who behave maliciously, and it really sets me back with having a firm foundation. I think that developing a deeper appreciation for the potential for people to have healthy experiences, and an appreciation of the fact that many very bad people do this to some degree constantly can make it easier to navigate things for me.

# ? Dec 21, 2023 17:44

BIG FLUFFY DOG: Feb 16, 2011; On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

i think ultimately fear of death is overcome through rejecting intellectual frameworks. The buddha taught, in for example the diamond sutra, about how intellectual frameworks, ideologies and notions can ultimately imprison us. Its why buddhist sages have talked about the importance of keeping even buddhist ideas and concepts in an open hand where we do not cling to them. And it is why certain questions asked of the buddha were answered with noble silence (the fourteen unanswered questions, the flower sermon, and vimalakirti's answer to the best way to summarize emptiness).

with intellectual frameworks you construct a mental world which doesnt really exist. And you compare the real world around you to it constantly. Its very difficult to be able to accept the suchness of things and free yourself from dukkha through notions. Ultimately notions are one of the most fertile fields for suffering to grow in.

# ? Dec 21, 2023 17:52

prom candy: Dec 16, 2005; Only I may dance

Nessus posted:

Y'all got any practice resolutions for the New Year?

I'm thinking of setting one but I'm not sure if I should aim high or go for the basics.

Same as always: meditate consistently every day

# ? Dec 27, 2023 04:48

Spacegrass: May 1, 2013

Achmed Jones posted:

lucretius - an epicurean - got it right with his symmetry argument. from book 3 of on the order of things:

look back also and see how the ages of everlasting time past before we were born have been to us nothing. this therefore is a mirror which nature holds up to us, showing the time to come after we at length shall die. is there anything horrible in that? is there anything gloomy? is it not more peaceful than any sleep?

now that doesn't _obviously_ jive perfectly with a buddhist perspective, but it does if you look at it. for lucretius/epicurus, there is nothing after death. you're gone. not so for buddhists (sort of). yoru death occasions a birth, suffering continues unless you attain enlightenment. so the buddhist response is twofold:

1. i either attain nibbana and everything's good, or i do the bodhisattva thing and help everyone attain it, and in the fullness of time all are liberated and everything is good. in either case, things end up in a good place and the variable is number of lifetimes. but let's assume that we don't get an out and move on.
2. _i_ i am dead and gone. i don't need to worry about _that_. sure something else will be born, and that thing will suffer as will all things subject to samsara, but me fretting about it doesn't do anything. so, the symmetry argument holds: im not all freaked out about the suffering being whose death occasioned my birth, so why would i be bothered about the suffering of a being whose birth is occasioned by my death?

and framing it that way - drawing a perfect analogy to something that we _really don't_ worry about, ever - is much more effective for letting-go of death anxiety than, like, hoping for nibbana (as in #1) or whatever. now obviously when my life is immediately threatened still get scared, it's not like that is an easily dropped response, but this is the argument that really wormed its way into my brain and took hold in a way that other arguments do not, subjectively speaking. similarly, this only really works for _me_. i do not feel similarly about eg my son's death. which reveals something about the horror of his death not being a horror at something _he_ would face, but the horror of _my_ having to interact with a world without him in it, and so on and so forth. but that's starting to get a bit far afield of the original question.

I think when I die I'm going to meet God and Jesus, but I'm a dedicated Christian. Anyway I guess that means enlightenment from the hell on earth I'm going through.

# ? Dec 27, 2023 23:07

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

ok? that's a different religion from the one i'm talking about.

# ? Dec 27, 2023 23:13

Heath: Apr 30, 2008; 🍂🎃🏞️💦

Spacegrass posted:

I think when I die I'm going to meet God and Jesus, but I'm a dedicated Christian. Anyway I guess that means enlightenment from the hell on earth I'm going through.

Huh?

# ? Dec 28, 2023 16:09

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

Looking through his rap sheet he seems to get regularly probated from FYAD So I wouldn't take him All that seriously

# ? Dec 28, 2023 16:28

Heath: Apr 30, 2008; 🍂🎃🏞️💦

Yeah Spacegrass given your post history in this thread I'm not sure if you're genuinely confused and looking for a dialog or if you're doing a bit.

# ? Dec 28, 2023 16:50

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

Went back and read space grass' previous posts in the thread, it does seem they want to learn. I apologize for making fun

Tea Party Crasher fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Dec 28, 2023

# ? Dec 28, 2023 17:04

nice obelisk idiot: May 18, 2023; funerary linens looking like dishrags

Spacegrass has been through some rough stuff. Spacegrass, you don't have PMs, and this is a bit of a stock response as I don't know you. But in both Buddhism and Christianity it isn't a bad thing to recognize suffering. In fact, it's the first step towards lessening it. If you have a faith community with kind and trustworthy people in it, please let them know if you need help in finding resources or support. Or please engage other community resources if you need it. You're likely less alone in things than you think. Especially if you try to approach yourself and others with kindness.

# ? Dec 28, 2023 17:04

Spacegrass: May 1, 2013

I was serious. I just didn't read much of what I was replying to. Yes, I got confused. Sorry. I use to post goofy stuff in FYAD. I do not go there anymore since I stopped drinking booze. I'll lurk more before I post.

Spacegrass fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 29, 2023

# ? Dec 29, 2023 00:44

Spacegrass: May 1, 2013

nice obelisk idiot posted:

Spacegrass has been through some rough stuff. Spacegrass, you don't have PMs, and this is a bit of a stock response as I don't know you. But in both Buddhism and Christianity it isn't a bad thing to recognize suffering. In fact, it's the first step towards lessening it. If you have a faith community with kind and trustworthy people in it, please let them know if you need help in finding resources or support. Or please engage other community resources if you need it. You're likely less alone in things than you think. Especially if you try to approach yourself and others with kindness.

Most of my social life is on the internet. It's all I need right now, at least I think. The Mormons (LDS) are about the only religious group I would consider going to church with. I've met with them and talked on the phone with them.
Even though the Book of Mormon is a little corny; I get alot out of it.

I guess suffering will never go away in this world or the next one.

I am trying to make it better, for me right now at least. Got off the liquor and going to AA nearly daily.

# ? Dec 29, 2023 19:51

quiet one: Jan 1, 2024

Thirteen Orphans posted:

What kind of philosophies and practices do you all have for fear of death/death anxiety? How do you frame it intellectually and what practices confront and transform the anxiety in and of itself?

Forgive a newcomer for jumping right in, but this is a topic of some interest. I approach the subject not as a Buddhist but as a retired scientist who somehow became heavily drawn to Taoist philosophy + old school existentialist thought at a young age. A few major-ish traumas assisted the process by shaking loose thoughts and attachments.

I think if you identify the sense of isolation and separation that comes from experiencing mortal dread and you trace it back to its source, the process can trigger what feels like a "biological memory" of what it's like to not exist as a physical being. The symbol for the Tao played into it. You effectively imagine/experience the universe prior to your being in it. In that instant, it's okay. "Not being here" then wasn't bad at all. "Not being here" in the future just doesn't matter much in terms of a fear response. Life remains important and there are things that require doing. But there are always going to be things that require doing. It balances out.

Hope that makes some kind of sense.

# ? Jan 1, 2024 07:48

Mushika: Dec 22, 2010

Shen Yun is poison and Falun Gong is the root. They make my life a loving living hell for one week every year and it always falls in a huge dearth of work, so it's difficult to refuse to do the lighting work for them because if I don't work, I don't eat, but I'm getting too old and I can't justify perpetuating this bigoted, insane poo poo.

I'm venting here because they claim to be a Buddhist sect and they are anything but and because they have have made my life hell for the last time and I'm going to the temple today to help do some work on the roof and purge this from myself. Oh, and work with Brother Duke on his English reading the Sutta Nipata.

I'm sorry, I don't have many people I can vent this to.

# ? Jan 5, 2024 15:35

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Mushika posted:

Shen Yun is poison and Falun Gong is the root. They make my life a loving living hell for one week every year and it always falls in a huge dearth of work, so it's difficult to refuse to do the lighting work for them because if I don't work, I don't eat, but I'm getting too old and I can't justify perpetuating this bigoted, insane poo poo.

I'm venting here because they claim to be a Buddhist sect and they are anything but and because they have have made my life hell for the last time and I'm going to the temple today to help do some work on the roof and purge this from myself. Oh, and work with Brother Duke on his English reading the Sutta Nipata.

I'm sorry, I don't have many people I can vent this to.

Jeez that sounds awful. I didn't know Falun Gong was purportedly Buddhist.

Given that Shen Yun has gone from being "FIVE THOUSAND YEARS OF CHINESE CULTURE" to "CHINA BEFORE COMMUNISM" I have assumed it's getting more blatant

# ? Jan 5, 2024 15:45

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

Mushika posted:

Shen Yun is poison and Falun Gong is the root. They make my life a loving living hell for one week every year and it always falls in a huge dearth of work, so it's difficult to refuse to do the lighting work for them because if I don't work, I don't eat, but I'm getting too old and I can't justify perpetuating this bigoted, insane poo poo.

I'm venting here because they claim to be a Buddhist sect and they are anything but and because they have have made my life hell for the last time and I'm going to the temple today to help do some work on the roof and purge this from myself. Oh, and work with Brother Duke on his English reading the Sutta Nipata.

I'm sorry, I don't have many people I can vent this to.

I can imagine that would be extremely conflicting, and I'm sorry that circumstances / money are forcing your hand here. It reminds me a bit of working for AT&t and being the envoy of bad news to the customers they were actively loving over. You're frustration is understandable but I think you have the right mindset about it: supporting yourself is important, and that allows you to do a personal kind of good in other areas of your life. After all, if you didn't do the lighting it's not like their show would shut down.

I'm glad you brought this up honestly, because Shen Yun has been getting aggressively advertised where I live, and my mother wanted to take me to see it because she's into traditional Chinese Han Fu fashion on YouTube. It was only when I got their dire "before communism..." Ad that I did some digging and found out that they were a homophobic, misogynistic anti-vax cult. I've been trying to think of the gentlest way to tell her that I don't think we should go and support it, because it seems 8,000 types of insidious.

# ? Jan 5, 2024 16:11

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Tea Party Crasher posted:

I can imagine that would be extremely conflicting, and I'm sorry that circumstances / money are forcing your hand here. It reminds me a bit of working for AT&t and being the envoy of bad news to the customers they were actively loving over. You're frustration is understandable but I think you have the right mindset about it: supporting yourself is important, and that allows you to do a personal kind of good in other areas of your life. After all, if you didn't do the lighting it's not like their show would shut down.

I'm glad you brought this up honestly, because Shen Yun has been getting aggressively advertised where I live, and my mother wanted to take me to see it because she's into traditional Chinese Han Fu fashion on YouTube. It was only when I got their dire "before communism..." Ad that I did some digging and found out that they were a homophobic, misogynistic anti-vax cult. I've been trying to think of the gentlest way to tell her that I don't think we should go and support it, because it seems 8,000 types of insidious.

I don't know the details but I imagine it's something like they dragoon young dancers, presumably from Taiwan, into working like rented mules for peanuts and plane fare and the promise of helping The Cause. There is presumably an abundance of literature being handed out.

# ? Jan 5, 2024 16:35

Mushika: Dec 22, 2010

Shen Yun is the profit arm of Falun Gong. They make the majority of its cult leader's money. There are at least eight groups performing internationally at any given time to profit their Deerpark, New York campus.

e: None of their personnel are paid wages, they are simply fed and clothed. We're talking classically trained dancers, musicians, technical crew, you name it.

Mushika fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 5, 2024

# ? Jan 5, 2024 18:11

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Mushika posted:

Shen Yun is the profit arm of Falun Gong. They make the majority of its cult leader's money. There are at least eight groups performing internationally at any given time to profit their Deerpark, New York campus.

e: None of their personnel are paid wages, they are simply fed and clothed. We're talking classically trained dancers, musicians, technical crew, you name it.

Well gently caress that business

# ? Jan 9, 2024 04:23

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Wanted to bounce some thoughts off the thread, if it doesn�t mind me bringing my troubles here.

My cat passed away a few weeks ago, and my feelings about it are a jumbled mess. The grieving process takes time and effort, and everyone goes through it differently, I know - but there�s still a lot of doubt and a lot I don�t understand.

Reason I bring it up here is that I�m having trouble adjusting. Reeling from the loss of a close friend has left me a sort of �emptiness�, or a void left by their presence. I had a decade-long companion that I gave love and affection to and (hopefully) received back tenfold every day, and now I suddenly don�t. That�s a major mental, physical, psychological, and emotional shift in a short amount of time. So you can probably guess what going cold turkey is like, and how that�s going.

What exactly is happening here, when it comes to my wellbeing? Is this emptiness because of some ignorance or attachment I neglected to address? Are my thoughts and actions inherently clouded until this passes or resolves? And if so, what do I do now? What has this loss caused, and how has it changed how I feel and think? (Is it even a loss at all, or am I just deluded or mistaken?)

Basically: I don�t know how or where to start. I really want to put what I�ve learned to use here, but it�s a tough battle to cut my teeth on. There�s all sorts of books I can read and dharma talks I could listen to and think I�m helping myself, but I�ve been stuck in a rut for a while now. I�m running out of the energy and arrogance needed to think that I can do everything myself without any help. I�m not sure I even really understand what�s going on�

I would appreciate any advice and guidance you can share!

# ? Jan 25, 2024 18:52

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

That sucks, I'm sorry to hear.

I think you are simply experiencing suffering because you lost your buddy. It is absolutely sensible and understandable to feel this way. You are not a Buddha, none of us are, and to my understanding, Shakyamuni would have also felt these feelings: they simply would have passed through him like light through a clear window, without grasping or attachment.

What I think you ought to do imo, is sit with the feelings. Not necessarily in a drastic or formal session kind of way, but just sit, be quiet, and let your feelings play as you watch with your inward eye. If you weep, you weep; it's alright!

It sounds basic but I've found it really helpful, but you have to actually sit down and do it, not just think about it, which can be harder than it sounds.

# ? Jan 25, 2024 19:12

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# ? May 21, 2024 12:26

Heath: Apr 30, 2008; 🍂🎃🏞️💦

Pollyanna posted:

What exactly is happening here, when it comes to my wellbeing? Is this emptiness because of some ignorance or attachment I neglected to address? Are my thoughts and actions inherently clouded until this passes or resolves? And if so, what do I do now? What has this loss caused, and how has it changed how I feel and think? (Is it even a loss at all, or am I just deluded or mistaken?)

My cat passed away a few weeks ago, and my feelings about it are a jumbled mess. The grieving process takes time and effort, and everyone goes through it differently, I know - but there’s still a lot of doubt and a lot I don’t understand.

Basically: I don’t know how or where to start. I really want to put what I’ve learned to use here, but it’s a tough battle to cut my teeth on. There’s all sorts of books I can read and dharma talks I could listen to and think I’m helping myself, but I’ve been stuck in a rut for a while now. I’m running out of the energy and arrogance needed to think that I can do everything myself without any help. I’m not sure I even really understand what’s going on…

Reason I bring it up here is that I’m having trouble adjusting. Reeling from the loss of a close friend has left me a sort of “emptiness”, or a void left by their presence. I had a decade-long companion that I gave love and affection to and (hopefully) received back tenfold every day, and now I suddenly don’t. That’s a major mental, physical, psychological, and emotional shift in a short amount of time. So you can probably guess what going cold turkey is like, and how that’s going.

I've rearranged your post here to illustrate that at least some of your confusion originates in the fact that you seem to be putting the answers first and the questions second, and reading your words in this way may be enlightening.

The attachment that's troubling you isn't the one to your cat, but rather to the idea that you "should" be grieving in some way that you're not, and it's prompting these questions. That is the attachment that's plaguing you. Buddhism does not advocate being indifferent to loss or stoic in the face of it.

You have asked, "I have lost a dear friend; why am I clouded and empty?" Instead answer, "Why am I clouded and empty? Because I have lost a dear friend."

Heath fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jan 25, 2024

# ? Jan 25, 2024 20:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Buddhism Thread: Bitch I just told you about kshitigarbha

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