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The idea of repairability and having major components that aren't superglued to the motherboard is great. Everyone should be able to trivially swap the battery on their laptop (or phone etc). If you gently caress up the "t" key on your laptop it shouldn't take half a dozen specialty tools, industrial solvents, and soldering skills to replace the keyboard. Cracking the screen shouldn't be the death knell for the entire computer. But this: Eletriarnation posted:Sthey're just giving you the ability to laptop-of-Theseus by replacing only the chassis when it's worn out, or replacing only the CPU/MB[/RAM] when you want a performance upgrade. is a prime example of a high test, uncut, "enthusiasts are the only ones who care" feature. And, again, I say this as someone who is posting this from a desktop-of-Theseus that has had more or less every part incrementally replaced since it first came together in 2015. I think the DVD drive, one SDD, the case, and the PSU are all that remain of the original build. Hell, the CPU's changed twice, once as a total mobo/cpu refresh and once as a drop in. The number of people who care about how they're paying for a new chassis and a new mobo etc. when they "just" want to get a laptop with a better screen, processor, and RAM is vanishingly small, and of the ones who you could get to be grumpy about that the ones who have the technical skills to rebuild their laptop are tiny. You're an enthusiast who's getting a cool new toy to tinker with. That's fine. No one's saying that's bad. But you're the computer version of the guy reprogramming his car's ECU for a better acceleration curve when the rest of the world just wants four wheels that look nice, get them to work, and maybe get decent gas mileage. edit: enthusiast topics loom large on enthusiast websites and the enthusiast media that caters to them. But they are a loving tiny sliver of the general market, and only rarely are what drive it. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 18:24
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I think you're talking past me at this point. I'm not saying that Framework is going to take over the world. Even if 99% of people don't know or care that they exist, I'm saying there's enough of a niche for them to exist. Look at System76 if you don't believe that niche laptops can exist and even thrive.
Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 18:25
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njsykora posted:Settings on every OS are cloud stored now, I could buy a new MacBook and on first boot it would set my wallpaper and system settings from the iCloud backup. That just isn’t a thing any more. Keep in mind SA is full of the kind of people who will run shell scripts and edit registry entries to disable built-in cloud backups
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Jan 25, 2024 18:26
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Eletriarnation posted:Look at System76 if you don't believe that niche laptops can exist and even thrive. It's been a while - does System76 actually make computers now, or are they rebadges?
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Jan 25, 2024 18:30
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they're still clevo rebadges
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Jan 25, 2024 18:32
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also, isnt mxm or ngff a standard anyway, even then you need high end to run.
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Jan 25, 2024 18:34
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tracecomplete posted:It's been a while - does System76 actually make computers now, or are they rebadges? If they're adding enough value to Clevo rebadges to sell them at a large enough margin to make a sustainable business out of it, I'm not sure why it matters. What proportion of PC vendors actually own the factories making the laptops? (e: Better way to ask it, what proportion of PC laptops are sold directly by their manufacturer?) How many factories does Apple own? Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 18:36
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My thoughts on the matter are that sometimes I click a LTT video because the topic of the week is something I’m keenly interested in, hesitate because I remember Linus has an annoying voice, think my memory is overblowing it, play the video for 10 seconds, go “oh Christ” as my ears ring, turn it off and repeat the cycle in about 6-9 months.
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Jan 25, 2024 19:00
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Need a browser extension that opens all LTT vids in incognito mode
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Jan 25, 2024 19:08
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Eletriarnation posted:If they're adding enough value to Clevo rebadges to sell them at a large enough margin to make a sustainable business out of it, I'm not sure why it matters. What proportion of PC vendors actually own the factories making the laptops? (e: Better way to ask it, what proportion of PC laptops are sold directly by their manufacturer?) How many factories does Apple own? So when a prior company dealt with System76 because we had some Linux nerds who were picky that they'd be gettin' a Dell, they did not do anything with the actual hardware and were effectively an OS vendor. They weren't specifying hardware, and for enterprise-level talks, they could not make changes--not for even a suitably enterprisey price, they just couldn't. Clevo owned the product line. System76 was a sticker. I was asking in good faith whether that had changed. Dell, Lenovo, et al absolutely can spin you large runs of customized hardware because they do own or control the stack, so yes, it matters quite a lot, and is why I asked. (Apple is a special case, where they generally have ready access to upmarket SKUs so I've never heard of anyone feeling the need to ask them for it, but I'm sure it exists somewhere.) tracecomplete fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 19:18
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Right, and I don't dispute that it's a good faith question - but my point is that even with just a custom (sort of, since it's open source) software stack and support for it System76 is adding enough value, for their customers, to make a sustainable business out of doing what they're doing even though they're a very small fish in the pond. The way they add that value isn't based on custom hardware designs, so yeah if you want that you'll have to go somewhere else... but Framework doesn't even have that problem, so I'm not sure how my overall point of a niche laptop vendor being viable is affected.
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Jan 25, 2024 19:27
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I have two relatively recent Lenovo laptops (a Thinkpad e495 and an Ideapad Gaming 3) and they're fine. I haven't had any hardware problems or major complaints. The screens could be better (they're pretty low contrast). Upgrading the RAM and SSDs in them wasn't difficult but did require prying the cases apart which some people might not be comfortable doing.
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Jan 25, 2024 19:53
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tracecomplete posted:So when a prior company dealt with System76 because we had some Linux nerds who were picky that they'd be gettin' a Dell, they did not do anything with the actual hardware and were effectively an OS vendor. They weren't specifying hardware, and for enterprise-level talks, they could not make changes--not for even a suitably enterprisey price, they just couldn't. Clevo owned the product line. System76 was a sticker. I was asking in good faith whether that had changed. Doesn't Dell have models they ship Linux on? Especially for enterprise prices, you'd figure the Linux experience would be pretty good. Unless these were like deep in the kool aid Linux nerds who complained about binary firmware blobs and poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2024 20:47
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FuturePastNow posted:I have two relatively recent Lenovo laptops (a Thinkpad e495 and an Ideapad Gaming 3) and they're fine. I haven't had any hardware problems or major complaints. The screens could be better (they're pretty low contrast). Upgrading the RAM and SSDs in them wasn't difficult but did require prying the cases apart which some people might not be comfortable doing. My X1 yoga at least opens without any prying, there are just a few screws on the back. I wanted to find a video but instead saw this older X1 Carbon that had user replaceable USB-A and audio ports. Like you'd just unscrew and replace them as a little module if they get wonky, had no idea they did that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXRs7WivhI8&t=276s (4:40) Not sure if my model still has those, I'd bet not. I'm sure it's great for repeairability but it's got to massively increase part and assembly cost and almost no user is going to be replacing those themselves anyway. I guess in this instance it would've been great to have that for USB-C too but they're not and, with much higher connection requiremetns and more pins I'm no even sure it would be feasible anyway.
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Jan 25, 2024 20:48
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Arivia posted:Doesn't Dell have models they ship Linux on? Especially for enterprise prices, you'd figure the Linux experience would be pretty good. Unless these were like deep in the kool aid Linux nerds who complained about binary firmware blobs and poo poo. Last time I looked, for consumer and even business models, you can get a few flavors on them pre-installed (think it was the main ones, like Fedora, Ubuntu and the like), or you can just get it bare. Though they charge more to do so because they aren't getting the kick-back for pre-installed Windows. I believe the only real space where some form of Linux is used for out-the-door products are on the server level hardware, and that is a whole different ballgame from even their business department.
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Jan 25, 2024 22:14
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Tiny Timbs posted:Keep in mind SA is full of the kind of people who will run shell scripts and edit registry entries to disable built-in cloud backups It's me. I have a big ol' pile of GPO magic that turns off literally everything that is cloud. cloud-based anything is not a feature on my OS. That's a cancer.
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Jan 25, 2024 22:30
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Eletriarnation posted:It's great that it's that simple for your workflow, but some folks install applications with detailed configuration which might not necessarily be carried over by the OS's cloud backup. The fact that you don't deal with it doesn't mean it's "not a thing". Apple doesn't actually offer cloud backup for MacBooks, don't know what the other poster was talking about, but they do have a feature called Migration Assistant and it is loving magic at copying all your poo poo from one Mac to another. Thanks to this my setup is now ancient. It started out Intel and is now Apple Silicon. It's been migration'd and upgraded so many times I've lost count and don't even remember exactly when I last started over from scratch. There's probably people out there who have Mac user accounts first created on a PowerPC Mac working fine after two CPU transitions. They have a very similar process for migrating old-iPhone-to-new-iPhone. Apple makes sure it's very low friction to move to new hardware.
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Jan 25, 2024 22:36
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Arivia posted:Doesn't Dell have models they ship Linux on? Especially for enterprise prices, you'd figure the Linux experience would be pretty good. Unless these were like deep in the kool aid Linux nerds who complained about binary firmware blobs and poo poo. They do. But if they could complain about having to have a Dell like the little people, by gosh, they were going to—this was back before everyone and their product manager’s dog had a Mac and if you didn’t you weren’t “part of the crowd”, granted, but no less insufferable. I have a Linux desktop and a k8s cluster in my house and I fervently hope somebody will Old Yeller me before I become a Linux Guy.
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Jan 25, 2024 23:35
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The key is to be a Linux guy but know enough to shut up about it
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Jan 26, 2024 00:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4UXdJSJM4
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Jan 26, 2024 00:20
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Framework seems like a neat idea if you want non standard modules to be "built in" to your laptop. Like if you could fit a decent DAC into one of the I/O mods id probably be down. For about 20% less than what its currently. and if I ever needed a laptop.
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Jan 26, 2024 01:38
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My daily driver OS, as I'm sure everyone knows, is FreeBSD - and while it scales down to embedded hardware, the only reason I ended up buying a used T480s is that Firefox was getting too sluggish on the T420 despite the CPU upgrade (last ThinkPad generation to come with a socketable CPU, so I upgraded it from a i5-2520M to a i7-2670QM). The thing is built like a tank, and I still adore it because it had the 8-row keyboard and the old IBM Redbook design. EDIT: I do wonder, could the speculative execution mitigations have done that much to the performance? Because it still seems to me like a 4-core 3GHz processor shouldn't be that slow. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jan 26, 2024 |
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Jan 26, 2024 01:43
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Really laptops should just be a dumb terminal with wifi 6/5G connections to remote VMs on a daracenter  Stateless appliances baybeeee
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Jan 26, 2024 01:52
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MarcusSA posted:I have my doubts that framework will even be around in a few years. I dunno, the typical goal is to get bought out and hit a payday or IPO, I kind of find it hard to see either happening so I'd guess they'll stick around as long as they can keep finding investors to dump money in.
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Jan 26, 2024 03:27
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priznat posted:Really laptops should just be a dumb terminal with wifi 6/5G connections to remote VMs on a daracenter Speaking of computing cancer ..
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Jan 26, 2024 04:22
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priznat posted:Really laptops should just be a dumb terminal with wifi 6/5G connections to remote VMs on a daracenter You're a monster
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Jan 26, 2024 04:27
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They’ll try it again!! 5th time’s the charm!!!
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Jan 26, 2024 04:55
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he's not a tech idiot, but I thought this Adam Neely video on youtubing was interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RceZ8VS8PbQ
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Jan 26, 2024 05:03
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tracecomplete posted:They do. But if they could complain about having to have a Dell like the little people, by gosh, they were going to—this was back before everyone and their product manager’s dog had a Mac and if you didn’t you weren’t “part of the crowd”, granted, but no less insufferable. looks like it’s already too late tbh
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Jan 26, 2024 05:12
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Eletriarnation posted:Considering the success of AM4 and the 5800X3D, I am skeptical that upgradeable CPUs are a nonstarter as a market. They haven't been very successful with Intel for the last ten years, because it turns out that when you only allow one generation of upgrades on a motherboard and the replacement chip has the same core count with minimal IPC improvements, people usually just ask "what's the point". Give people real options to upgrade to something that's actually a lot better, and those options are popular! Laughing about how I've been building computers since 2003 and was with intel so long, yet I still have yet to actually remove an LGA socket CPU from the motherboard because intel has just reliably abandoned sockets after 2 years. AM5 is going to probably (hopefully?) be the first time I do this when I upgrade my 7800x3d
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Jan 26, 2024 06:04
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Shipon posted:Laughing about how I've been building computers since 2003 and was with intel so long, yet I still have yet to actually remove an LGA socket CPU from the motherboard because intel has just reliably abandoned sockets after 2 years. AM5 is going to probably (hopefully?) be the first time I do this when I upgrade my 7800x3d Everything points to Zen6 being on AM6, so unless you're going to go for higher core counts or something it's not going to be a massive leap going from Zen4X3D to Zen5X3D.
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Jan 26, 2024 08:43
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BurritoJustice posted:Everything points to Zen6 being on AM6, so unless you're going to go for higher core counts or something it's not going to be a massive leap going from Zen4X3D to Zen5X3D. I'm probably still going to be upgrading from my 7800X3D at some point, to whatever the most appealing Zen5 X3D chip will be - so maybe it was just wishful thinking.
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Jan 26, 2024 09:23
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BurritoJustice posted:Everything points to Zen6 being on AM6, so unless you're going to go for higher core counts or something it's not going to be a massive leap going from Zen4X3D to Zen5X3D. What is "everything," here?
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Jan 26, 2024 09:29
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:What is "everything," here? Just a combination of what AMD says and what they don't say, as well as industry trends. - Given AMD's standard release cadence, Zen6 is coming in 2026 - DDR6 is roadmapped for 2026, giving DDR5 the exact same lifespan as DDR4 with 6 years - AMD is extremely careful in only ever guaranteeing AM5 support through 2025 - AMD has promised that OpenSIL will replace AGESA completely on a new platform launching in 2026 - On the Intel side of things, LGA-1851 is roadmapped for support until 2026, presumably so they can replace it with their own DDR6 platform around Nova Lake. In server, Birch Stream is ending in 2025 as well with Clearwater Forest. AMD isn't going to want Zen6 server with DDR5 going up against 2026 Xeons with DDR6. It's just pointing to a platform changeover in 2026, which is when Zen6 is coming. I could be totally wrong and they squeeze out Zen6 as a final release, but that would push Zen6X3D on AM5 to 2027 and I think they'd be shouting from the hills if they were planning to support AM5 for that long (and it would cause a very late DDR6 changeover).
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Jan 26, 2024 10:35
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I have a Lenovo x230 of theseus where I've upgraded to an ssd, replaced the internal power socket like four times, the screen once, the keyboard twice, the motherboard once to upgrade to an i7 and fix a USB port, the ram to upgrade to 16gb (I think), and the CPU cooler at least once because the fan was dying. What I'm saying is, I now have two Lenovo x230s. Need to replace the power socket again though, it's getting loose. Considering a better Bluetooth card for it as well, but it's like £30 and that seems like a lot of money at this point.
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Jan 26, 2024 10:43
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Koskun posted:Last time I looked, for consumer and even business models, you can get a few flavors on them pre-installed (think it was the main ones, like Fedora, Ubuntu and the like), or you can just get it bare. Though they charge more to do so because they aren't getting the kick-back for pre-installed Windows. Still no option for TempleOS? Lame.
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Jan 26, 2024 11:26
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Aware posted:I dunno, the typical goal is to get bought out and hit a payday or IPO, I kind of find it hard to see either happening so I'd guess they'll stick around as long as they can keep finding investors to dump money in. I wonder what their cost-per-unit is, if its low enough I could see them making enough off of the tinkerer crowd or "cutting edge" tech bros buying them. Plus you have Linus shilling it, so I imagine a good chunk of his devoted fans preordering it because it's associated with him. Which is then shown to investors as having a high demand for the product so they give money to the company. A modular laptop is a neat idea, but I'm honestly hard-pressed to think of what I would actually need that modularity for myself over what a regular laptop or desktop could do.
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Jan 26, 2024 12:58
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kefkafloyd posted:Hi, it’s me, the goon who makes these videos! I had posted it in the tech relics thread last week, which might be where you saw it. I watched your "which Simcity is best" video and thought it was great, so here's another commendation to throw onto the pile
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Jan 26, 2024 13:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:I watched your "which Simcity is best" video and thought it was great, so here's another commendation to throw onto the pile Thanks! “Which SimCity 2000 is best” is a much harder question to answer, because each version has its pros and cons. But I have been thinking about it.
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Jan 26, 2024 14:38
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priznat posted:Really laptops should just be a dumb terminal with wifi 6/5G connections to remote VMs on a daracenter I actually know a guy who kinda does this. He has a chromebook he uses to remote into all the systems he needs to for work (think a freelance sysadmin). I saw him working from a nearby brewery a bunch. Good work, if you can get it. kefkafloyd posted:Thanks! Well, allow me to unburden your mind: the best version is the Japan-only port for the n64 DD.
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