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Shrecknet posted:If women want to be around more sperm then why is Adams against trans women using their correct bathrooms? I'm not exactly sure of what you're saying but just as a fyi I think a lot of transwomen who go through HRT are actually infertile.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:03
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rkd_ posted:No just leaving their ‘relatives’ to die on the street.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:03
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I'm not surprised that lesser-evilism has led to the point where blue team's fans will accuse people having to watch their families be exterminated of lying about it to hurt grampy, or that the wonder of democracy has boiled down to "shut up and vote for the guy killing you, or the other guy will kill you even more!", but it is still pretty hosed. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 27, 2024 00:11
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selec posted:Al Franken was accused by eight separate women of a pattern of unwelcome touching and kissing. That’s not a right wing hack job, that’s a dude with a loving problem respecting boundaries. A big flaming stink posted:Also there was literal video of him pretending to grope a woman while she was asleep I apologize, I was not aware of multiple accusations, or a video. Only the one picture of him during his comedy days holding his hands above a sleeping woman. I retract the statement about Al Franken.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:23
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"We'll never vote for you no matter what," brilliant way to get a candidate to value your input.FlamingLiberal posted:If a politician was either directly or indirectly responsible for the death of your family member, would you still vote for them or have any interest in talking to their campaign? Because this is a reality for many Arab-American families in Michigan. I mean, US presidents are directly and indirectly responsible for the death of a lot of people and I imagine there is at least one person in this thread who has voted for someone meeting that description. Misunderstood fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 00:26
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Byzantine posted:I'm not surprised that lesser-evilism has led to the point where blue team's fans will accuse people having to watch their families be exterminated of lying about it to hurt grampy, or that the wonder of democracy has boiled down to "shut up and vote for the guy killing you, or the other guy will kill you even more!", but it is still pretty hosed. Enjoy the greater evil then I guess (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 27, 2024 00:29
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theCalamity posted:Why direct it to the neighboring states where American citizens have no power or say in how things are done in those countries. Why direct it uselessly towards those countries when the country they are a citizen of is directly involved and they have a chance of change? Why direct anger towards Israel (or any other country) at all then? None of us have any power or say how things are done in Israel, so by that definition, anything we say against Israel is useless and we should focus solely on what the US is doing at all times? B B posted:I'm very confused about what kind of pressure you think that some local reporters, a mayor, or some residents in Dearborn, Michigan can put on neighboring states in the middle east. Why did you put "relatives" in scare quotes? ‘Some local reporters, a mayor, or some residents’ were important enough to get a meeting with the president’s team, who could very much use their support and votes. I’m sure these people also have ties back home. Convincing relatives back home (and taking a stand as an organisation that seems to be the voice of an affected group) is pressure. We can (and do) condemn European states for not speaking out against Israel, why can we not condemn neighbouring states from leaving the Palestinians to their faith? I’m also not just talking about their reaction to this specific event, I’m talking about decades of not aiding Palestinians. Hell, they could’ve even campaigned in the US to pressure these countries to help more. If this specific group made an explicit call for that and I missed it then I apologise. I put the quotes because I’m confused in what sense of the word people are using it here and feel like it might be too much of a generalisation of the group that refused to take the meeting. Also because I’m a little confused when I read that these people are relatives, but when it comes to exerting pressure their reach apparently stops at the US border.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:35
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rkd_ posted:Why direct anger towards Israel (or any other country) at all then? None of us have any power or say how things are done in Israel, so by that definition, anything we say against Israel is useless and we should focus solely on what the US is doing at all times?
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Jan 27, 2024 00:39
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Josef bugman posted:Plus, I do have to laugh at "why are white men getting more conservative and why is this happening everywhere?" It's because various wealthy groups inside the USA and other powers want to work to make areas more conservative. Most of teh UK stuff is coming from think tanks backed by either Russian Oligarch money or American Billionaire money. Plus the home grown dicks we also have had in effective power since the mid 90's. So to me that would mean the left and progressives need to develop a counter to it? What would that look like?
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Jan 27, 2024 00:39
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rkd_ posted:Why direct anger towards Israel (or any other country) at all then? None of us have any power or say how things are done in Israel, so by that definition, anything we say against Israel is useless and we should focus solely on what the US is doing at all times? It would be incorrect to say that people having a discussion with President Biden's campaign manager about the conduct of the incumbent president are doing anything but focus on the actions of the United States. Gerund fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 00:40
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theCalamity posted:They’re focused on the US because 1) they’re American citizens and 2) Biden is supporting Israel with rhetoric and arms. quote:He met with several Arab world leaders, including Syrian President Bashar Assad and Syrian Vice President Farouq al-Sharaa, as well as with Lebanese President Michelle Suliman among other Arab leaders. https://arabamericannews.com/about-the-publisher/ It seems like the founder had no issue connecting with and talking to world leaders outside of the US in the past. Either he’s lying or he’s not just some guy at a small-time newspaper that can only reach US officials. I’m not even saying they shouldn’t focus on the US, I’m just saying there has been a deafening silence for decades when it comes to the responsibility of neighbouring states. Gerund posted:It would be incorrect to say that people having a discussion with President Biden's campaign manager about the conduct of the incumbent president are doing anything but focus on the actions of the United States. That’s not what I’m saying?
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Jan 27, 2024 01:00
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Main Paineframe posted:I'm talking about tough purple seats because the absolute number one limiting factor on how much pressure anyone can put on Manchin is the fact that no other Democrat can win the seat. Main Paineframe posted:What value does Cuellar bring to the Democratic party that Cisneros could not have provided? Well, apparently he's better at getting votes than she is. Do I have evidence that she would have lost? She did lose. If she can't beat Cuellar then there's no point in speculating about her hypothetical performance against Republicans. If she's so much better at mobilizing voter enthusiasm than Cuellar is, then she should be able to get up there and prove it herself by handily beating Cuellar. Main Paineframe posted:If you're saying that Manchin should be offered big campaign donations and cushy corporate jobs to "bribe" him into swaying his vote, then we've gotten pretty far off track. Why? Because it doesn't make any sense at all to get mad at Joe Biden or Chuck Schumer for not offering board seats or big donation promises to Manchin. Those aren't things that Democratic leadership can offer, they're things that outside rich people can offer. All those Democratic billionaires out there don't need Biden's permission to offer things to Manchin, and he certainly doesn't have the power to order them to do it. If we're on the subject of what Democratic leadership should do, then this is just a side derail. Main Paineframe posted:You said "Why would the GOP reveal that a significant portion of democrats are just as captured by industry as they are?". I guess "a bunch" isn't exactly the same as "a significant portion of", but it's close enough that you can't really accuse me of putting words in your mouth. Main Paineframe posted:Voters don't always rely on facts and evidence, yes. But we have to rely on facts and evidence when talking about what voters do. We can't just keep insisting that leftism is a guaranteed political winner that'll drive massive voter enthusiasm, because leftists have gotten chances to prove that several times and the results have not come anywhere close to living up to the hype. We no longer have the time to sit here in denial and make excuses. If we want progressive policies, we have to start figuring out how to win people over to progressivism. If we can't do that, then we're just going to have to tolerate some centrism, because the centrists appear to be the only ones capable of holding off the fascists.
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Jan 27, 2024 01:02
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rkd_ posted:https://arabamericannews.com/about-the-publisher/ What power do American citizens hold over foreign countries? How would they even get the neighboring states to do anything? How do you know if they’ve been silent about it?
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Jan 27, 2024 01:09
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rkd_ posted:If only that same outrage was directed at the Arab states who have left the people of Gaza to their fate for decades. No I'm sorry, that's not how it works. US citizens directing their outrage at US politicians is correct and logical, not directing their outrage at foreign governments. A community withholding their votes from a president that is directly, unashamedly, and defiantly participating in the genocide of their friends and families is understandable and I don't think you can handwave it away as "manufactured outrage" without coming off looking like a terrible person. Trump's theoretical future horribleness does not outweigh the actual horribleness Biden is doing right now, day after day.
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Jan 27, 2024 01:56
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theCalamity posted:What power do American citizens hold over foreign countries? How would they even get the neighboring states to do anything? They could campaign the US to advocate for them. US citizens post and criticise foreign countries all the time too. Plenty of organisations without the power to do anything still try to spread awareness and petition government officials, both within the US and abroad. I don’t see how it’s only futile for Arab states. There’s plenty of protests near embassies all the time too. Protesting against the government of another country is nothing new, but it shouldn’t be the only thing of course. Besides, as I quoted above, the founder and publisher has met and talked with leaders of those countries, I don’t know how you can get any more influential as a citizen other than becoming a leader yourself. theCalamity posted:How do you know if they’ve been silent about it? By not having heard anything from such groups about the lack of effort from these countries? I’m happy to be proven wrong though. This article (published in May last year) discusses the issue and even highlights that Arab countries have become increasingly dependent on the US, which the article states is one of the main reasons Arab states abandoned Palestine. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/5/14/the-arab-world-has-forsaken-the-palestine-cause Some quotes: quote:The abandonment of the Palestinians is directly related to the undemocratic nature of Arab regimes and their continuing political dependence on the United States, the main supporter of Israel and its settler-colonial project. quote:The aim of this monopolisation of how the Palestinian struggle is addressed in public is to cover up the fact that Arab regimes have increasingly abandoned making any significant political effort to help the Palestinians. Instead, official support has been limited to deceptive rhetoric and symbolic gestures so as to avoid confrontation with Israel and its backer, the United States. quote:Slowly but surely, the rights of the Palestinian people dropped down the priority list of Arab governments which saw the US as the main guarantor of their political survival and narrow economic interests. quote:The most that Arab governments have done in response to Israeli aggression is issue futile condemnations and protests quote:By blaming Palestinian disunity and pretending to support Palestinians through the PA, Arab regimes have essentially abdicated their responsibility towards them. quote:As for the Arab political order, it has shown that it is unreliable, so long as it is authoritarian and dependent on the very power that sustains Israel and supports its policies. So yeah, I don’t really buy that people sympathetic to the Palestinian people are entirely powerless to criticise the lack of support from Arab states (or the US involvement in that) just because they’re US citizens. In fact, the only way a lasting solution can be found is if the US and other Western countries enter into talks with those Arab states and come up with a plan that can ensure relative stability in the region and, subsequently, restoration and growth. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 01:58
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FistEnergy posted:No I'm sorry, that's not how it works. US citizens directing their outrage at US politicians is correct and logical, not directing their outrage at foreign governments. A community withholding their votes from a president that is directly, unashamedly, and defiantly participating in the genocide of their friends and families is understandable and I don't think you can handwave it away as "manufactured outrage" without coming off looking like a terrible person. You’re right, I shouldn’t have used the term “manufactured outrage”. I was definitely wrong there. I was just wondering where this outrage has been all these decades when the Arab states turned a blind eye to the situation, especially considering (as I stated in my post above) that their disregard for the situation in Palestine is not so isolated from the US as some here state. But I definitely shouldn’t have used those words. I agree with your second point too.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:00
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rkd_ posted:They could campaign the US to advocate for them. US citizens post and criticise foreign countries all the time too. Plenty of organisations without the power to do anything still try to spread awareness and petition government officials, both within the US and abroad. I don’t see how it’s only futile for Arab states. What even is this stupidity.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:05
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FistEnergy posted:No I'm sorry, that's not how it works. US citizens directing their outrage at US politicians is correct and logical, not directing their outrage at foreign governments. A community withholding their votes from a president that is directly, unashamedly, and defiantly participating in the genocide of their friends and families is understandable and I don't think you can handwave it away as "manufactured outrage" without coming off looking like a terrible person.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:07
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rkd_ posted:They could campaign the US to advocate for them. US citizens post and criticise foreign countries all the time too. Plenty of organisations without the power to do anything still try to spread awareness and petition government officials, both within the US and abroad. I don’t see how it’s only futile for Arab states. There are plenty of people who have met Biden, but aren't influential with him. These foreign countries are not beholden to US citizens. US citizens aren't going to influence their politics. It's easier for US citizens to influence US politics. This is extremely simple. rkd_ posted:By not having heard anything from such groups about the lack of effort from these countries? I’m happy to be proven wrong though. In those quotes, you bold the parts about the US backing Israel and being the main guarantor of political survivor and economic interests for Arab governments. Why should US citizens, who would hold no absolutely no sway in foreign governments, try to get Arab governments to support Palestine when the US citizens could influence the US government? This feels like deflection away from what Biden is doing. Like a long exercise in whataboutism.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:13
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FlamingLiberal posted:Previous presidents have been able to tell Israel no. Not that I am doubting you, but when were these times? What was it over and how did Israel react? I am undereducated on this topic of Pre-Bush II presidents and their dealings with Israel specifically.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:16
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes and I really feel like far too many people are all too willing to cover for Biden and make all sorts of excuses on his behalf. He has tons of power here. Previous presidents have been able to tell Israel no. He's no different. It's very obvious, and also based on his prior voting record and statements, that he is fine with what is going on for the most part. The fact that he's not even making the slightest move to curtail what Israel is doing really speaks volumes. Particularly as there is now going to be an ICJ trial of Israel for genocide in Gaza. While he obviously isn't doing near enough as he should and chances are he won't ever do the full right thing here, those previous situations are quite different and not a.1 to 1 comparison.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:17
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Troubling statement from the Biden admin on the immigration bill: https://x.com/POTUS/status/1751044359569490418?s=20 He pledges to shut down the border the day that the bill is signed, which concedes an enormous part of the argument to reactionaries.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:17
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Dull Fork posted:Not that I am doubting you, but when were these times? What was it over and how did Israel react? I am undereducated on this topic of Pre-Bush II presidents and their dealings with Israel specifically. https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/13/world/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-blunt-telephone-call-to-begin.html Reagandoes what Bidon't
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Jan 27, 2024 02:29
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Do democrats think they're doing some kind of 4d chess, where the republicans will be too dysfunctional to push the bill through, and then they can attack them in campaign ads about not really being serious about wanting the border closed? It's grim no matter how you look at it.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:30
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theCalamity posted:In those quotes, you bold the parts about the US backing Israel and being the main guarantor of political survivor and economic interests for Arab governments. Why should US citizens, who would hold no absolutely no sway in foreign governments, try to get Arab governments to support Palestine when the US citizens could influence the US government? They could influence the US government, as the main guarantor of political survival and economic interests, to push those governments to support Palestine. And it’s not meant to be a deflection form what Biden is doing at all, I fully support their decision in that regard, I just wish it wasn’t the only demand. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 02:35
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Flying-PCP posted:Do democrats think they're doing some kind of 4d chess, where the republicans will be too dysfunctional to push the bill through, and then they can attack them in campaign ads about not really being serious about wanting the border closed? It's a pretty big carrot they're offering the GOP in return for Ukraine/Israel military funding. Which the Dems are only willing to offer cause those are both extremely important politically and practically for them. But I don't think the GOP will bite. Even though they would love for Trump to have this power next year if he wins, letting Biden have it now lets the Dems actually take real action about one of the GOP's biggest gripes. As we've seen from them shooting their own feet off several times last year, the GOP would rather kill the hostage than let their opponents get a single win.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:37
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rkd_ posted:They could influence the US government, as the main guarantor of political survival and economic interests, to push those governments to support Palestine? That sounds more like a step 2 after the thing you're complaining about them doing, not an independent action
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Jan 27, 2024 02:43
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Flying-PCP posted:Do democrats think they're doing some kind of 4d chess, where the republicans will be too dysfunctional to push the bill through, and then they can attack them in campaign ads about not really being serious about wanting the border closed? Biden and plenty of Democrats largely agree with Republicans on immigration. They just prefer to be less cruel about it. Shutting down the border AND getting funding for Ukraine AND giving Bibi more bombs? That's basically a triple win for Biden.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:46
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FistEnergy posted:Trump's theoretical future horribleness does not outweigh the actual horribleness Biden is doing right now, day after day. I cannot agree with that. This is not merely theory - Trump has a track record from his time in office, and it's most definitely not supportive of Palestinians. It's not 2016, no one can pretend like Trump is just some unknown quantity, or that a second Trump term would make things somehow be less horrible for the Palestinians.
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Jan 27, 2024 02:51
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Misunderstood posted:If it made the world a better place, I absolutely hope that I would. This is akin to "would you let a murderer [who was treated unconstitutionally by police] go free if it was YOUR family member who was killed?" It's just justifying an emotional reaction over a reasoned one, with ultimately negative effects. It's something that's going to happen, but it's not something that should be encouraged. ABC News posted:
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Jan 27, 2024 02:53
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rkd_ posted:They could influence the US government, as the main guarantor of political survival and economic interests, to push those governments to support Palestine? They're US citizens. Of course, they can influence the US government. We do it all of the time when we vote in federal elections. It is a deflection. Again, US citizens aren't going to influence foreign governments in any real way. Because of that, why waste their time trying to get foreign governments to do what they want?
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Jan 27, 2024 02:59
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reignonyourparade posted:That sounds more like a step 2 after the thing you're complaining about them doing, not an independent action It would be if this hadn’t been an issue for decades already. I guess at this point it would be a step 2, but it didn’t have to be for a long time.
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Jan 27, 2024 03:02
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I cannot agree with that. This is not merely theory - Trump has a track record from his time in office, and it's most definitely not supportive of Palestinians. It's not 2016, no one can pretend like Trump is just some unknown quantity, or that a second Trump term would make things somehow be less horrible for the Palestinians. Trump is NOT the President now. What Trump would or wouldn't do is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
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Jan 27, 2024 03:02
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FistEnergy posted:Trump's theoretical future horribleness does not outweigh the actual horribleness Biden is doing right now, day after day. Except, of course, Trump's terribleness is not theoretical. Not only would have Netanyahu done what he's done regardless of who was in power, Trump wouldn't even be calling for humanitarian aid, let alone lofty things like ceasefires which the UN didn't even call for. He DID stop aid to Palestine when he was President, and only Biden restarted it and increased it by 50%. Trump DID ultimately recognize the settler Golan Heights and move the embassy to Jerusalem, all things which no doubt led to the October 7 attack. He DID call to deport Palestinians who were protesting and he DID call for a new Muslim Ban, which no doubt would bar Palestinians from entering the country. Edit: FlamingLiberal posted:I'm extremely tired of this argument. It's just excusing Biden's current actions that are contributing to scores of women and children either starving or dying under piles of rubble. You shouldn't be tired of it. You should answer it more persuasively than you are now. It's relevant because the discussion is always coupled with "I'm not voting for Biden." The reality is that Trump is the only other possible choice so his record on what you purportedly care about - Palestinians and their cause - is entirely relevant here. Because, again, you're getting either Biden, or Trump. small butter fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 03:02
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theCalamity posted:They're US citizens. Of course, they can influence the US government. We do it all of the time when we vote in federal elections. My comment wasn’t a question of whether they can, it was a suggestion of something they can do that they haven’t.
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Jan 27, 2024 03:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm extremely tired of this argument. It's just excusing Biden's current actions that are contributing to scores of women and children either starving or dying under piles of rubble. You know the person you are quoting isn't the person who brought it up in the first place? Trump was brought up in order to make Biden look bad, not excuse his actions.
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Jan 27, 2024 03:08
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rkd_ posted:My comment wasn’t a question of whether they can, it was a suggestion of something they can do that they haven’t. But that’s literally what they’re doing. You’re suggesting that they do what they’re already doing
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Jan 27, 2024 03:23
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rkd_ posted:My comment wasn’t a question of whether they can, it was a suggestion of something they can do that they haven’t. So the thing they can do, they can do by pressuring the US to apply pressure that they can't as people with no political power in foreign countries, and you acknowledge this, and yet you think they should have been pressuring those countries previously....how exactly? What lever should they have been pulling?
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Jan 27, 2024 03:27
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It's pretty hard not to cave on what's basically a 70/30 issue that is also insanely motivating to your opponent's base in an election year so I don't blame Biden for moving on immigration. A lot will depend on what the final measures end up looking like, and how he ends up using them. (And of course there's a very good chance the final measures are "nothing" and the cost of this move will just have been the rhetorical blow to the project of American acceptance of immigrants, which, you know, that's not nothing.) Ultimately the problem is that there is a lot of demand to come to the US, and very few legal ways to do so, and few on either side are really too concerned about slowing down migration, and one side massively benefits from the perception of crisis. I think that vastly expanding legal immigration could be a popular policy but only if the spectre of "illegal immigration" is put to rest. The status quo isn't sustainable, and there isn't really a legal framework in place to do any better. Misunderstood fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 04:00
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selec posted:Troubling statement from the Biden admin on the immigration bill: If I'm reading summaries correctly, the "shut down the border" clause (which is a weird way to put it, which is part of why I looked into it, but apparently that's the verbiage Biden went with so) refers to a formalization of the CBP/president being able to rapidly expel immigrants that cross the border at illegal points if there are 4k+ encounters in a day, and required to use that protocol if there are 5k+. It also has an interesting bit about if this is in play, then X number of immigrants (plus asylum seekers) must be allowed to approach legal border crossings per day. Not sure how that one's going to be properly implemented. also that's a bit of rhetorical sleight of hand by Biden, if I'm reading correctly he wouldn't have a choice about whether to 'shut down the border' if the bill was passed under current immigration numbers https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bi...0matter%20said.
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Jan 27, 2024 04:03
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