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Uhh, sure dude. Good news for you, you can get some real cheap houses just down the street from a coal plant, and you'll have a job just on your doorstep.
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Jan 19, 2024 11:48
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Pharnakes posted:Uhh, sure dude. Good news for you, you can get some real cheap houses just down the street from a coal plant, and you'll have a job just on your doorstep. Well, I am not going to move inside a computer game simulation.
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Jan 19, 2024 12:02
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I agree with you. Where the game is correct and realistic is in that it's a thing, but the abstraction needed to translate it into game mechanics goes too hard and makes it a bit unreasonable in the ways you brought up. Poisoning people has less immediate and unsustainable consequences in real life than in-game. That felt like a strange sentence to write.
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Jan 19, 2024 16:16
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Another gameplay aspect of the pollution setting is adding a source of variable healthcare utilization. But yes it's very silly that anyone living within a 50 mile radius of a room full of sewing machines gets rapid onset black lung. Honestly I think might start playing without it and just keep building my heavy industry sensibly far away from my housing.
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Jan 19, 2024 16:22
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People dying of lung cancer in their 50s happens in real life all the time.
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Jan 19, 2024 16:22
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Even just at a base level it's something begging for technology or a building module of some sort. IIRC particulate and NOx scrubbing achieved widespread service only by the 70s and 80s which is solidly in the middle of this game. Until then you could face a lot of trouble even living at the distances the game doesn't mind for power plants and steel mills. Clothing factory and probably most of the polluting buildings without a visible stack probably needed to have it's air pollution nixed when water pollution became a thing. E. It should also be pointed out that if we are talking about not scrubbed particulates, NOx and SOx, there are many acute effects that go away when it isn't smog season or once scrubbing is put into place. Rolling dice on everybody in the smog cloud to see if they go to the hospital is not a totally awful model. gently caress smog. zedprime fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 16:44
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zedprime posted:Even just at a base level it's something begging for technology or a building module of some sort. Sounds like a potential candidate for an actually interesting tech tree!
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Jan 19, 2024 17:11
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zedprime posted:Clothing factory and probably most of the polluting buildings without a visible stack probably needed to have it's air pollution nixed when water pollution became a thing. Yeah, the problem is that it's hard to really abstract this, especially when water pollution is still a dangerous thing even when you're not drawing your water from there. You have to have some way of going from "our tap water is flammable" to "your residential district is built over the Love Canal" to "we're dumping waste down the sewer drain, which is fine as long as you aren't downstream of where it ends up" instead of "assume a perfectly round circle of pollution whose radius is determined by how much we say this pollutes"
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Jan 21, 2024 18:57
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Latest nightmare: Had to reload a save because I lost 17k population after a poop spiral finally killed everyone. I tried to fix it when I started getting electricity out notices but it was too late. The culprit was an intersection that has run fine for literal hours and hours of gameplay, but then one truck wanted to make a left while a bunch of snowplows wanted gas, choking the intersection and closing off the worker busses to the power plant. The lack of power for a bit choked the workforce - I switched to importing and caught everything before my heat tanked, thought I was okay. But people were still flooding the hospital because the heat did dip on the far side of town. And since the power was out, a rush of people couldn't get served at stores fast enough. Some didn't have water briefly, but then worse, sewer pumps went offline. While I caught it soon enough to get those things back working, now everyone was low happiness and productivity and I couldn't, for the life of me, get enough productivity out of my sewage plant (usually runs about 65-70% capacity at 85% water quality) to even just clear the connected sewers at all. Everything was relatively buffered - nothing was truly running a razors edge but my god do things collapse fast and cascade into one another. All because that one truck wanted to turn left and got blocked. I added a new cycle to the light after reloading a save.
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Jan 23, 2024 19:52
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The SA Forums > Video Games > W&R Soviet Republic: I had to reload a save after a poop spiral finally killed everyone.
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Jan 23, 2024 20:04
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That's why you always build the raw water discharge and hope you never have to use the raw water discharge.
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Jan 23, 2024 20:16
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zedprime posted:That's why you always build the raw water discharge and hope you never have to use the raw water discharge. The map generator loves its finger lakes, there's almost always a way to dump all your sewage raw directly toward NATO and consider it a monument.
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Jan 23, 2024 20:22
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Is there some trick with kindergartens? This set of flats just refuse to go over there.  edit: They seem to have figured it out. Just took them a very long time. The General fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 02:14
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The General posted:Is there some trick with kindergartens? This set of flats just refuse to go over there. How long have you observed it? I think warning messages stay a lot longer than they might feel like they should to help you diagnose transient problems. 6 workers out of that seems like something happened briefly that limited total kids allowed to be there. Also you have enough educated workers?
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Jan 24, 2024 02:41
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As my edit says, looks like they eventually figured it out. Though seems to be always 1 or 2 using it an excuse to just not work  May have been an instability issue with slightly understaffed. This is my second attempt at populating the area, first time I definitely did not have enough educated people and it was a fiasco. I really lucked out, my last autosave was right before I mashed the buttons to let the people in. The General fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 02:46
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Turns out that I can make money converting dollars to rubles by buying new Western vehicles at the blue custom house and then carting them over on flatbed railcars to the Soviet custom house to sell them at a big profit. I haven't dug around for a spreadsheet but Western vehicles all seem to be valued at a 2.5:1 ruble/dollar ratio or better, so I seem to be better off selling my bread to the West and using the dollars for this weird arbitrage scheme rather than selling directly to the Soviets. The main annoying thing is I don't think I can automate buying the vehicles.
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Jan 25, 2024 05:18
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Oh wow cosmonaut mode is way loving different from last time I played. No more setting up an entire construction materials complex ...
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Jan 25, 2024 06:22
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What's the way to keep stuff on a grid when building in this? I see that I can turn the wireframe on and manually move the roads and stuff around without snapping with the F keys but is there a way to snap everything on the grid or is it just eyeballing it when looking at the grid to make sure everything's even?
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Jan 27, 2024 17:17
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explosivo posted:What's the way to keep stuff on a grid when building in this? I see that I can turn the wireframe on and manually move the roads and stuff around without snapping with the F keys but is there a way to snap everything on the grid or is it just eyeballing it when looking at the grid to make sure everything's even? You press the wireframe button twice. Once turns it on, twice and a little magnet appears on the icon and things snap to the grid, thrice turns it all off again
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Jan 27, 2024 18:00
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:You press the wireframe button twice. Once turns it on, twice and a little magnet appears on the icon and things snap to the grid, thrice turns it all off again Oh hey that helps a ton, thank you!
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Jan 27, 2024 19:28
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Anime Store Adventure posted:The culprit was an intersection that has run fine for literal hours and hours of gameplay, but then one truck wanted to make a left while a bunch of snowplows wanted gas, choking the intersection and closing off the worker busses to the power plant. A really neat function for this kind of game, broadly, would be if it could recognize when an intersection is stuck. A police vehicle would then get dispatched to the intersection and sit there for a bit, which would dramatically reduce the speed of the intersection but just turn on noclip and let vehicles drive through each other. Nicely simulates the idea of traffic getting backed up and having to have the cops come out and unsnarl it manually.
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Jan 27, 2024 22:39
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Alternately, the idea of having vehicles understand how to merge without making other vehicles behind them come to a stand still. Or the ability to have an extra third lane for merging. Or having really any kind of way to handle this that isn't "lol gridlock" and requiring wildly inefficient buffering spaces.
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Jan 27, 2024 23:50
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I’ve never had a republic die to a traffic caused blockage. Plenty of other death spirals, but I’m convinced anyone who suffers that particular one is relying excessively on road vehicles, which are inherently counter revolutionary. The ways of the soviet are feet, trains and helicopters, anything else should be used only because there is no other option at all, and sparingly at that.
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Jan 28, 2024 01:34
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I just don’t let my citizens own cars, owning cars is too capitalist.
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Jan 28, 2024 02:38
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All I'm hearing is a bunch of counterrevolutionaries who didn't build a robust enough road network. 
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Jan 28, 2024 04:22
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It's a lapse of marxist thought that bikes aren't in the game
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Jan 28, 2024 12:28
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Given the capital outlay of a reasonably capable rail network far outstrips a reasonably capable road network, it is really not that surprising. A bit of a philosophical question that I find myself having from time to time and would like opinions on: Do people set up their distribution offices as push (producers deliver resources to consumers) or pull (consumers pick up resources from producers) setups? Is there a meaningful difference? I do both and I feel like it invites a duplication of effort whenever logistics throughput starts to become a bottleneck.
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Jan 28, 2024 20:08
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Both. Producers deliver resources to local storage and last-mile trucks (usually) hop from the warehouse to stores, etc. Almost all my “push” things from producer to local warehouses/storages will be by train, then last mile via trucks pulls from there. Certain exceptions to this would be like, chemicals, electronics, things that really don’t call for an entire train load. I’ll also have a separate distro office set to unload and export at say, 70-80% of a producers full storage. Right now it’s just a train to the border but soon I’ll build a nice export port.
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Jan 28, 2024 20:16
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The biggest inefficiency potential for DOs (other than straight running out of slots) is triangular trips. So I tend to go for a non-DO-handled push from producers to a nearby storage complex; a DO there to push to other complexes further from production (ideally rail DO); and local DOs pulling to end consumers. The producer side can also be handled by pull orders, or a separate pull DO, for those general storages.
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Jan 28, 2024 20:23
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Mandoric posted:The biggest inefficiency potential for DOs (other than straight running out of slots) is triangular trips. So I tend to go for a non-DO-handled push from producers to a nearby storage complex; a DO there to push to other complexes further from production (ideally rail DO); and local DOs pulling to end consumers. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by triangular trips? Are you meaning you set up lines where you're avoid deadhead/empty trips? I know potentially I have inefficiencies where right now I'm sending a train for each good, excepting when say, the train to the border can grab both prefabs and steel to import since I'm not yet making those. I could see making one megasized storage area where train DOs can grab a whole host of goods at once, but I'm not sure that would save me *all* that much train traffic, which is the real thing I want to optimize for. I set my DOs to only send longish trains. I'm going to see if once I get distant cities and electronics/clothes set up if I can just suffice on large trucks on highways to supply that, really only needing trains for construction goods, aggregates, food... It would be nice to get mixed trains with food/electronics/alcohol/meat/clothes, but I'm not sure I can think of a robust way to both make sure a city can say, get meat if thats all they need, but not send like a 2 car train constantly with meat, which was the problem I ran into with mixed trains. Either they would run out of one good and weren't allowed to send a small train until the other goods got low enough to meet the minimum car limit I set, or they would just constantly be sending 2 car long trains full of food. Maybe set up a mixed train capable DO with a backup road DO that only kicks off if meat gets really low?
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Jan 28, 2024 21:18
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Bikes and printing shops are my two biggest wants
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Jan 28, 2024 21:40
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I'm not sure I follow what you mean by triangular trips? Are you meaning you set up lines where you're avoid deadhead/empty trips? I know potentially I have inefficiencies where right now I'm sending a train for each good, excepting when say, the train to the border can grab both prefabs and steel to import since I'm not yet making those. I could see making one megasized storage area where train DOs can grab a whole host of goods at once, but I'm not sure that would save me *all* that much train traffic, which is the real thing I want to optimize for. I set my DOs to only send longish trains. I'm going to see if once I get distant cities and electronics/clothes set up if I can just suffice on large trucks on highways to supply that, really only needing trains for construction goods, aggregates, food... It would be nice to get mixed trains with food/electronics/alcohol/meat/clothes, but I'm not sure I can think of a robust way to both make sure a city can say, get meat if thats all they need, but not send like a 2 car train constantly with meat, which was the problem I ran into with mixed trains. Either they would run out of one good and weren't allowed to send a small train until the other goods got low enough to meet the minimum car limit I set, or they would just constantly be sending 2 car long trains full of food. By triangular trips, I roughly mean situations where you have a (for free DO cap or other very early in development reasons) DO that has to send traffic in one direction to get the good, then in the opposite to deliver it, then drive back. You're stuck deadheading one way no matter what with either DOs or simple lines, of course, but when most of it can be done when the good isn't in demand it reduces the pain--and of course the local DO can segregate out the small and speedy vehicles from the big bulk haulers. As I get later in the game I tend to just expand the hierarchical logic at play. Each town or village (off the main line) has a storage park, maybe a third to a half of a power radius--for local produce it pulls by road or local rail from the production facilities and pushes upstream to the nearest city (on the mainline), and for imports (whether actual border post imports or just other towns' produce) is pushed to by the city DO or pulled from by actual local consumer DO. The city storage district gets a full power radius, basically separate building for everything except the real tiny demands and probably multiple buildings for everything its towns and villages produce, and it has twin rail DOs for pushing to other cities (low storage floor) and export (higher storage floor, unless an export-only good like Beats) as well as both a small vehicle local DO or two for its own needs and some combo of large vehicle and local rail DOs to push down to its towns and villages.
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Jan 28, 2024 22:04
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Mandoric posted:By triangular trips, I roughly mean situations where you have a (for free DO cap or other very early in development reasons) DO that has to send traffic in one direction to get the good, then in the opposite to deliver it, then drive back. You're stuck deadheading one way no matter what with either DOs or simple lines, of course, but when most of it can be done when the good isn't in demand it reduces the pain--and of course the local DO can segregate out the small and speedy vehicles from the big bulk haulers. Ah okay, I see. Yeah, my DO's I've generally built near one end of their intended trips. The only exception to this is I usually build one big one to hit various fuel-needing buildings in a region. Especially now with maintenance I end up with pretty sizable depots that are basically maintenance and a DO, it helps a lot keeping your vehicles moving.
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Jan 28, 2024 22:17
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Mandoric posted:By triangular trips, I roughly mean situations where you have a (for free DO cap or other very early in development reasons) DO that has to send traffic in one direction to get the good, then in the opposite to deliver it, then drive back. You're stuck deadheading one way no matter what with either DOs or simple lines, of course, but when most of it can be done when the good isn't in demand it reduces the pain--and of course the local DO can segregate out the small and speedy vehicles from the big bulk haulers. Yes, comrade, you have discovered the frustration of running a logistics network in the time when you had telephones, and, at best, some form of teletype. Coordinating things was a pain. Certainly, no one would stop you from dispatching all those trucks, trains, and vessels yourself?  To be serious, I get the frustration, but the game is also a trade off between how much you want to micro manage and how much you will just say 'eh good enough, gently caress it' and accept the inefficiency. I certainly wouldn't mind the capability though, especially as a researchable topic!
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Jan 28, 2024 23:05
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As a more serious post, does anyone have any good suggestions for smaller aircraft usage? The amount of money you would gain from tourism is simply too small to justify, and the workforce system as it is simply doesn't have enough slack to make it worthwhile to try to send workers to remote areas. It could be nice to have for "long term extended facility schedules" such as firefighters in the middle of nowhere at your oil fields, but again it just isn't worth the cost vs simply setting up a small hamlet nearby with tiny stores and such and accepting that such a location carries a loyalty penalty. Actually, it would be kind of neat to be able to set up a building like The building in Alaska that houses the entire community to use as a kind of micro arcology, one which wouldn't necessarily butt up against the "well there are too few people and no one opened the grocery store so i guess we will all starve" nonsense, at the cost of lower loyalty, lifespan, etc and a higher burn rate for raw materials.
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Jan 28, 2024 23:17
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Volmarias posted:Yes, comrade, you have discovered the frustration of running a logistics network in the time when you had telephones, and, at best, some form of teletype. Coordinating things was a pain. Certainly, no one would stop you from dispatching all those trucks, trains, and vessels yourself? Just the opposite, I know it's gonna be there and there is no paging the driver to make side stops so it's just relaxing minimization of how much deadheading time is actually during a resource crunch. Though I wouldn't in principle mind better tools for creating mixed loads, even if they didn't involve DOs; I kinda feel like the grocery-pub route should just be a four-tonner carrying 2t food 1t alcohol .5t clothes .5t electronics running every day. Small aircraft feel like they "should" be attractive for situations like remote oil refineries, but even if you get the timings and worker allocation working properly (and I've done it!) it remains that to build that remote refinery you first had to build yourself a helicopter infrastructure. I guess I could feel a setup where sufficiently light aircraft work off of dirt roads or something, but as long as it's just a vehicle price/fuel consumption question, much less when the air infra is an additional ask, you're pretty much by definition at the phase of the game where those don't matter by the time you hit the phase of the game where you have reasons to want people to cross-map commute.
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Jan 29, 2024 00:47
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Small aircraft don't feel like they really have a place, yeah. Maybe if you want to do aesthetic tourist areas, but even those require significant staff that you probably want to house on site, and then need to service that is probably difficult to plane in. All of the "very small" labor requirement industries aren't things that you want remote: I don't need to produce asphalt and cement in nowheresville. Remote work sites beg for some kind of locational importance. Technically you could be ferrying lumber workers out somewhere, but you can also just plant trees. Oil fields don't require workers, and the only other location specific resources are mines that need dedicated trains or tons of trucks on a constant clip. Ran into two more things I didn't quite realize before: I hosed up garbage collection in my newest city to a degree I hadn't before. I thought I would catch up - I had ample hospital space, so who cares if there's some adverse health effects? What I didn't realize is what the tooltip of overflowing garbage actually means is that garbage produced into overflowing containers immediately turns into pollution, which started to absolutely ruin my new city. Worse, this city was feeding workers to my newly built garbage handling for all 3 big cities I have rolling, so I couldn't clear the problem easily that was killing it. I had to import a shitload of workers to get me out of it and still had a tough time getting garbage across the entire Republic under control. They really aught to explain that it creates pollution, that absolutely crushes your working pop (more than it should, IMO.) The other is that personal cars are even worse than everyone has tried to explain. I have a minibus (more, lovely modded truck bus) route to my power plant, but its just close enough to a city to get about half of the parking lots close enough to have workers service it by personal car. But! Did you know that workers reserve their working shift at the power plant when they depart their parking lot? Such that if 15/20 slots in your power plant are reserved by recently leaving cars, you can start getting brownouts while absolutely full busses drop no one off at the power plant? Great stuff!
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Jan 29, 2024 07:03
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I picked this up again with the new patch and have been slowly working my way through a new save with most of the optional stuff enabled (heat, water, waste, but education set to simple) and have been having a good time but I'm still in the phase of the game that I've always gotten through before eventually giving up which is basically getting a construction office running and self sufficient with local goods. I always feel a bit aimless starting out in this with a blank slate which is why I latch onto construction materials as a good first goal to shoot for so I at least don't have to import those anymore. Is this generally a good place to start with? What should I consider expanding/building after that's done? I think once I get those situated is normally when I peter off because I am never quite sure what to do next.
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Jan 29, 2024 14:46
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It’s a sandbox. Make an RP story and follow it. One goal could be total autarky. See what you are importing and make domestic versions until you aren’t importing anything
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Jan 29, 2024 15:07
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What if I'm RPing a clueless city planner who has no idea what he's doing You're right tho I just figured I'd ask to see how people usually start their game out.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:09
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