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Colostomy Bag posted:Probably a liability standpoint vs implementation. transmissions don't just lock up when going into park. the pawl will just ratchet over the gear until you're almost stopped.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:09
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chrisgt posted:transmissions don't just lock up when going into park. the pawl will just ratchet over the gear until you're almost stopped. It's more about the transmission being shredded apart rather than the car stopping. The pawl would probably just snap at highway speed
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Jan 29, 2024 17:19
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chrisgt posted:transmissions don't just lock up when going into park. the pawl will just ratchet over the gear until you're almost stopped. Like I said liability. For push button controls, there will be a controller motor/module that controls the parking pawl/shifts.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:24
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C-Bangin' it 
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that's ok, in the future the car's ai will just decide when you probably meant to be in park, reverse, drive, etc.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:06
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Leperflesh posted:that's ok, in the future the car's ai will just decide when you probably meant to be in park, reverse, drive, etc. OK, Elon.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:58
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Standard column shifter supremacy FTFY
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Jan 29, 2024 18:59
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Don't forget lovely transmission control design is why we don't have Anton Yelchin anymore.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:26
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I thought most (all?) modern automatics were software controlled anyway and they won't actually put the transmission into park or reverse unless the car is stopped.
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Jan 30, 2024 17:35
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The whole point of having alternating push/pull buttons is that it's much easier to operate by feel, even compared to the old-style lever.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:15
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Kafouille posted:The whole point of having alternating push/pull buttons is that it's much easier to operate by feel, even compared to the old-style lever. Gear selection isn’t something that needs to be optimized in this way. Besides, old school lever COULD be operated by feel because it was the same always. First indent is reverse, second is neutral which could be entered without pushing in the button, below that is drive. PRNDL is an acronym for a reason. loving with the operation of critical control interfaces that have real safety implications when they’ve been standardized for generations needs to be done with care and should really only be done with an explicit purpose. Unfortunately the purpose in most of these cases is to make the interior cheaper to make and to give it a better visual style.
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Jan 30, 2024 19:26
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Give me a lever to control spark advance anyday over a touchscreen for gear selection.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:04
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fins posted:Give me a lever to control spark advance anyday over a touchscreen for gear selection. I want a tiller for steering myself.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:22
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bull3964 posted:Gear selection isn’t something that needs to be optimized in this way. The point is that having a big honking mechanical lever is distinctly unnecessary when all it's doing anymore is actuating some microswitches, even beyond cost it takes up a bunch of interior space in a fairly crowded location, and making the lever smaller makes it hard to operate by feel since the detents get too small and weak. As far as selectors go the alternating push-pull buttons are not a bad way to do it, it's not some Tesla touchscreen bullshit, and it's still PRNDL.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:39
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Sagebrush posted:I thought most (all?) modern automatics were software controlled anyway and they won't actually put the transmission into park or reverse unless the car is stopped. They are somewhat flexible on what defines "stopped" in my experiences.
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Jan 30, 2024 21:06
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Toyota solved this with the Prius in 2004.
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Jan 30, 2024 21:12
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Kafouille posted:The point is that having a big honking mechanical lever is distinctly unnecessary when all it's doing anymore is actuating some microswitches, even beyond cost it takes up a bunch of interior space in a fairly crowded location, and making the lever smaller makes it hard to operate by feel since the detents get too small and weak. As far as selectors go the alternating push-pull buttons are not a bad way to do it, it's not some Tesla touchscreen bullshit, and it's still PRNDL. Same argument can be made for turn signals and it leads to tesla’s bullshit. The problem with that push pull design is the that R and D both FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME if you drop your hand down and miss the indent you are looking for. Unless you double check that there’s no indent above the indent you found, you have no way of knowing if you are about the trigger D or R and since those are directly opposite directions, that’s a pretty drat important thing to be sure about. You also cannot tell what your current selection is based on feel. You have to look down and see the lights. You also can’t just blindly throw it into park, you have to feel down and hope you got the park button by feeling the shape rather than the neutral button. It’s workable, but then you have the buick example which is something completely different. Then you have rotary selector on Fords. That’s the point. Once you free yourself of the few constraints you did have, everything is on the table and suddenly you have people making UX decisions about critical controls that may not actually have the proper experience to do so. That’s where we were with the start of the automobile. You had things like the steering wheel, the tiller, levers and other wacky things. Then at we got to the point where most anyone can get into any vehicle and operate it with intuition. We’ve been drifting away from that more and more and we probably need to coalesce around a UX that makes sense for modern vehicles including electrics rather than doing all these ‘one of’ designs dictated by the person that styles the dashboard.
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Jan 30, 2024 21:32
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A shift lever is just a cosmetic item that wastes space and constrains design if the transmission is electronically controlled. We still haven't figured out where the reverse gear goes on a manual shifter, the only thing that is bad about the push button shifter is that the handbrake usually turns into a parking brake button, but I suppose it's no worse than a parking brake pedal
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Jan 30, 2024 22:18
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That is why the modern car needs a tiller.
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Jan 30, 2024 22:22
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gimme a rod for mixture and a lever for ignition timing
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Jan 30, 2024 22:26
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Give me a wheel of oaken wood, and a rein of polished leather.
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Jan 30, 2024 22:40
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Platystemon posted:Toyota solved this with the Prius in 2004. My S60 is up for reverse, down for drive, and down again for regen braking drive. Park is a separate button right by the gear selector
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Jan 31, 2024 00:36
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yeah but innovation no matter what just change something hurry
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Jan 31, 2024 01:08
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Sagebrush posted:I thought most (all?) modern automatics were software controlled anyway and they won't actually put the transmission into park or reverse unless the car is stopped. I can confirm first hand that at least on a 2015 Lexus RX450h it’ll just go to neutral if you’re traveling forward until your speed drops below 7mph, then it’ll shift into reverse. Never tried going into park at that speed, though…
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Jan 31, 2024 01:22
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Give me a rocket and a parachute
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Jan 31, 2024 03:24
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Sagebrush posted:I thought most (all?) modern automatics were software controlled anyway and they won't actually put the transmission into park or reverse unless the car is stopped. yeah most modern automatics I think are just computer controlled, no direct wired connection to the shifter. For sure any knob or dial is absolutely just a computer control. The only thing that isnt anymore is likely the few remaining manual transmissions because they have to for how they function.
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Jan 31, 2024 03:41
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How do I install ChatGPT on it to control my shifting
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Jan 31, 2024 03:47
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freeedr posted:How do I install ChatGPT on it to control my shifting Have I got some news about Volkswagen for you...
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Jan 31, 2024 04:02
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Jonny Nox posted:I don't know if the Buick version is better or worse: Lol GM parts bin, my Bolt has the exact same entire center console, except the "m" button is replaced with the toggle for one-pedal driving. It's really intuitive and easy to use once you get used to it though, you can tell which button is which by feel, easier and better than a traditional column shifter for e.g. quick 3+-point turns. I'm a little more partial to the Nissan Leaf's weirdo little... thing though, still really easy to use without looking, but more esthetically pleasing, imo. Down for drive, up for reverse, straight and hold awkwardly for a long time for neutral, push the top for P. 
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Jan 31, 2024 07:16
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the worst one is the one in the current ford f150. it's still a big stick in the center console, except it also folds down out of the way if you're just working inside the truck. it's obviously computer controlled, so why is there a need for such a huge shifter, even gm's dash mounted thing is a better solution for working inside the truck bonus: when it first came out, there were reports that the shifter would get jammed in the down position
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Jan 31, 2024 07:26
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.
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Jan 31, 2024 08:24
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Wild EEPROM posted:the worst one is the one in the current ford f150. Buy the XL next time for a boring column shifter instead of the Jerk Ranch edition.
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Jan 31, 2024 16:42
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Unpopular Opinion: I quite liked my Jaaaaag’s rotary drive selector -  It was a decent solution and it looked cool when it popped up when the ignition came on. 
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Jan 31, 2024 18:23
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AirRaid posted:Unpopular Opinion: I'm actually fine with that too, it's the brilliant Chrysler implementation that put the dial shifter uncomfortably close to all of the other dials for audio and climate controls that soured most people's opinions And also how that specific Chrysler shifter's ambiguity was likely the direct cause of death for a rising Hollywood star
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Jan 31, 2024 18:37
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My biggest issue with the rotary knobs is that they put them right beside the radio and hvac controls, with the same texture as said controls. So if you don't look down you're not 100 percent certain of which control you had. This is an easy design fix, considering all you need to do is change the shape of the dial. Then again my experience was working in the rental car industry when they first started appearing, and I only saw the first 1ish model year with them, so things may have changed. The most troublesome was the dumbass shifter knob Chrysler and their associated companies put in. Where you couldn't tell what gear you were in and you needed to bump it up or down and sometimes it would respond and sometimes it wouldn't. And you could never be sure you were in park. I'm pretty sure that's what killed Anton Yelchin.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:37
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AirRaid posted:Unpopular Opinion:
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Jan 31, 2024 18:38
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Wild EEPROM posted:the worst one is the one in the current ford f150. cause dudes with tiny dicks love to have their hands on a big honkin' shifter like it was their fantasy dick.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:50
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St_Ides posted:My biggest issue with the rotary knobs is that they put them right beside the radio and hvac controls, with the same texture as said controls. So if you don't look down you're not 100 percent certain of which control you had. This is an easy design fix, considering all you need to do is change the shape of the dial. They still had it next to the radio as of a couple years ago.
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Feb 1, 2024 00:28
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My wife’s escape has the rotary shifter and I HATE IT, but at least it’s got PRNDL with clicky detents and it’s on the center console instead of near the loving volume knob.
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Feb 1, 2024 03:44
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I don't think a knob is inherently a bad interface for something like a transmission selector. If the knob has separate physical positions -- with a relatively large angle between them, and good detents -- for each of PRNDL, and the knob is shaped in a way that its set position is unambiguous -- say it's got a large ridge on it that points towards the setting, or it's pseudo-triangular -- then it could work alright. Even better if it has multi-input lockouts, like having to push the knob down before rotating into gear. It could be fine. That isn't exactly how the Chrysler shifter works. The Chrysler thing is round and symmetrical, so there isn't a tactile indicator of where it's positioned, and there's no difference in feel from one shift to the next so you always have to either count the clicks (with no overrun prevention) or look at the indicator. It's also right next to the volume knob on the stereo. That's all stupid. But it's still not the worst implementation. The worst is the old Chrysler system, which works sort of like a sequential transmission on a race car or motorcycle. The selector always returns to a center position, and you push it either up or down to shift through the sequence one step at a time. Click down once from P, that's R. Let it go back to center. Click down again, that's N. Back to center, click again, that's D. etc. In ergonomics this is called a "monostable input.*" It's acceptable in a real transmission because there isn't likely to be a disaster if you pick the wrong forward gear by accident, and because you hardly ever need to skip a step in the sequence. The motion is always one click up or one click down. Using it for a PRNDL selector is stupid and dangerous, because you skip around. You have to count clicks or look down at the readout to make sure you've selected the right step in the sequence. This creates an ambiguity about what the car is going to do after you make your input. Monostable inputs aren't inherently bad either; this is just an extraordinarily inappropriate use for one. Like deciding to steer your car with a pair of pushbuttons, or something. The interaction available with the interface doesn't support what the user actually needs to do. Chrysler got hundreds of complaints but only recalled it after Anton Yelchin died. Tesla picked up the model and continues to use it to this day, because of course they do. *other terms so you can impress your friends: something that locks in two positions, like a light switch, is a bistable input. if you have more than two positions and each one has a unique physical position, like a traditional transaxle selector, that's an indexed input. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 04:31
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Sagebrush posted:
Jesus Chrysler
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Feb 1, 2024 04:38
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