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Shoehead posted:Well if you want something done right nicely done center orb was placed here for this purpose, you can't convince me otherwise
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Jan 30, 2024 22:52
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Only way to make that better is to make the big outer flippers into backboards.
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Jan 30, 2024 22:54
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Joe Slowboat posted:This is definitely how it would work in the Elder Scrolls/CHIM cosmology that inspired K6BD. as someone who never played any of the elder scrolls games but has become interested due to how frequently the above comes up in K6BD discussions: which would be a good game to play/start with if my priority is digging in to the cosmological inspirations of K6BD?
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Jan 30, 2024 23:24
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Morrowind and it's not even close.
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Jan 30, 2024 23:35
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Planescape Torment too, while you're dling old games
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Jan 30, 2024 23:40
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Brain Candy posted:nicely done It was clearly placed there for a bobber
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Jan 30, 2024 23:46
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Youremother posted:Morrowind and it's not even close. Yeah it's Morrowind, which is where the specific in-universe scripture that contains 'reach heaven by violence,' the 36 Lessons of Vivek, comes from. Really the only option for K6BD inspiration, since Abaddon used to call the whole series "36 Lessons fanfic."
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Jan 30, 2024 23:56
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It's kind of a background element in Morrowind, which you have to go looking for, but none of the others even come within sight of the idea.
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Jan 31, 2024 00:29
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excellent feedback, folks, thanks. that was the sort of advice i was looking for. sounds like i might need to play it with a guide if i want to zero in on the rad K6BD stuff?
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Jan 31, 2024 00:55
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I will note that you can just look up the text of 36 Lessons online -- it's obscure enough in the game that the game itself isn't necessary context. But Morrowind is awesome, and seeking out those books is a pretty great excuse to play it. It sounds like a fun source of extra direction while playing. I recommend diving in and playing the game, just paying extra attention to seek out books in any area you visit. You might need to use a guide to complete your collection eventually, but maybe you won't. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 01:04
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dingo with a joint posted:excellent feedback, folks, thanks. that was the sort of advice i was looking for. sounds like i might need to play it with a guide if i want to zero in on the rad K6BD stuff? I don't know how much a guide would help. The content is not really hidden, it's just rarely the main focus. It's mostly present in the in game's literature as the different volumes of the 36 Lessons of Vivek. Of which there are 37. Beyond that, a couple concepts are brought up matter-of-factly in the main plot, mostly as a cute way to refer to the included Construction Set.
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Jan 31, 2024 01:07
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There's also the Soulsborne games, although a lot of that is gonna be just the vibes because so little of the lore is explicitly explained ingame. Elden Ring probably "explains" its backstory in the most detail, but you're still getting a disjointed picture unless you dive into fan lore synopses. Oh, and also Fear and Hunger plus it's sequel. Those games are rough to play and absorb without a guide, though. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 01:18
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There's also been some great articles written about the concept of CHIM and specifically Vivec somehow gaining 4th wall breaking knowledge. I dunno where to find that off hand... E : Found it! It's old as poo poo! https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-1/ Shoehead fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 01:18
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I think that doing a bunch of quests for the Mages Guild will be the most thorough way to get access to all the esoteric material in one convenient in-game spot. However, at least one of the volumes is a cryptic clue for a defunct ARG-like thing, so you're going to have to look up its text yourself regardless. Getting familiar with the more wild and cosmological corners of the game's lore will be helpful for interpreting some of the references in the 36 Lessons themselves, but people have also done all that legwork before you, so don't feel obligated to go it alone.
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Jan 31, 2024 01:35
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Just in general Morrowind is a weird little game. There are giant mushrooms everywhere, there are giant bugs everywhere, you ride around in giant bugs, everything is made out of bug chitin. Your main quest giver is a fantasy cocaine addict. You can mix potions that make you better at mixing potions and they stack to infinity. The previous game had multiple endings, and the writers decided that the way to resolve it for the sequel was that every ending happened simultaneously. Also lowtax is in it, as a corpse (lmao)
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Jan 31, 2024 01:45
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Probably just read the wiki. Does the game really provide dozens of hours worth of meaningful context?
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Jan 31, 2024 02:06
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M_Gargantua posted:Probably just read the wiki. yes
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Jan 31, 2024 02:41
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Brain Candy posted:nicely done it is also identical to a very tiny World of Gog
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Jan 31, 2024 02:43
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Play the game anyway because it's great. Get too deep into the modding scene, download 700 mods, tweak them all to work together, end up releasing your own overhaul of all the NPCs in the game.
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Jan 31, 2024 02:44
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Thyrork posted:Of course we want a Chaos Dunk! The Perfect Cast.
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Jan 31, 2024 02:53
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M_Gargantua posted:Probably just read the wiki. Wealth beyond measure, Outlander
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Jan 31, 2024 03:27
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M_Gargantua posted:Probably just read the wiki. If you're the right (wrong) kind of insane, it provides hundreds.
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Jan 31, 2024 04:44
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We'll make a special trip, just for you. Same low price.
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Jan 31, 2024 05:47
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If you really want to understand the parts that inspired KSBD, you'll have to dig into the fanon works of Michael Kirkbride, and that takes a LOT of mental fortitude and I'm a huge Kirkbride fan.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:18
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I mean, there's merit to that: Kirkbride managed to create to cram a rather broad set of references from Gnosticism, Eastern mysticism, Hinduism, Buddhism and more (plus of course Glorantha that already worked a fair bit on these ideas) into a rather-digestible acid trip chunk of gaming lore, which combined with the entire otherness of Morrowind created a very impacting effect. I think the merits of the game were only fully realized by a general audience some good years after Skyrim tbqh Naturally, that growing recognition got Kirkbride to proportionally more maniac in his writing which ooooooooohhhh boy. There's a lot less of that in present day K6BD, but stuff like our modern technology and billboards in Throne like at the end of Seeker of Thrones - that combination of anachronism and mythology in the art - gives me a very faint whiff of Kirkbride's trying to monster mash cybernetics, magic, God-time, theology mysticism and weird physics in spacetime etc in a whole raving tangent (also kudos to operant for taking care of the story for so long and having an organic evolution of tone, taking it way farther than the original inspiration)
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Jan 31, 2024 06:59
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Also here is an annotated version of the sermons (still incomplete after over a decade of work!) http://www.newwhirlingschool.com/index.php I was trying to find some writing about specifically the character "I" in CHIM, or the Tower as Vivec sometimes calls it, because he's obtuse mainly. Someone had written a very interesting take on it that probably circles nicely back around to K6BD because at some stage Vivec reveals if you rotate I or the Tower you find it's actually a wheel of many spokes, which I think is the opposite case with us. Anyway they were arguing that the Tower is actually the CD Morrowind came on, viewed by the side and it was pretty great. It seems to have fallen off the face of the Internet.
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Jan 31, 2024 11:20
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Bongo Bill posted:It's kind of a background element in Morrowind, which you have to go looking for, but none of the others even come within sight of the idea. you do specifically have to go seek it out, although there are a few points where you will basically be directly exposed to a few of the books of it. Plus these books give you skill ups. Also this is one of those brown era rpgs. And pay attention to stamina, if you're weak as poo poo and it's going down and you're moving slow you're carrying too much -- there's a reason low level npcs carry like, 1 lovely piece of armor. Most people mod this out instead but i'm in the camp that it should just be like that even though it's dumb. Traverse to the games thread if you didn't already. Shoehead posted:Also here is an annotated version of the sermons (still incomplete after over a decade of work!) http://www.newwhirlingschool.com/index.php i'm like 50/50 on all that. idk, kinda plausible, kinda not. All i know is as far as i'm concerned ES as a franchise took a right hand turn after MW and all their games and stuff have become less good. There's still at least some vein of weird flowing under the surface there but w/e. It's not like any of it was really mega life altering it just hit a lot of people at a specific time with a lot of weird concepts.
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Jan 31, 2024 14:58
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I was going to bring up something comparing Holden from Blood Meridian to different chars from here but it's too different of a paradigm to make it work I think.
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Jan 31, 2024 15:07
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Shoehead posted:Well if you want something done right In the very first seasons In the very first games Do you know who was MVP? Who bent the board to their will? Who formed the All Stars Pact, took the court, and ruled the hall of fame? Who nearly surpassed the dribbling king?
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Jan 31, 2024 16:40
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SniperWoreConverse posted:you do specifically have to go seek it out, although there are a few points where you will basically be directly exposed to a few of the books of it. Plus these books give you skill ups. Skyrim is far more fun to play moment to moment than Morrowind.
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Jan 31, 2024 17:48
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There's actually an Elder scrolls lore thread that hasn't seen a new post in over a year in The Sci-Fi Wi-Fi, so if anybody wants to get nitty gritty about it that would be the place to be too! I knew never removing that thread from my bookmarks would pay off one day! 
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Jan 31, 2024 17:52
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OPAONI posted:Skyrim is far more fun to play moment to moment than Morrowind. Morrowind is a better sandbox RPG, Skyrim is a better action game and modern "check-the-box" open-world game (and is less janky, although Bethesda jank persists). It really depends on what your prefer, and you have to take into account one came out in 2002 and one in 2011. For me, I like Morrowind in concept, but it was really overwhelming to play (at least for the impatient kid I was at the time it came out). Skyrim was easier to get into and just lose yourself in, but ultimately the experience is a bit shallow. Personally, my main problem is that they essentially haven't improved their game design in any meaningful way since Skyrim. Fallout 4 and 76 had the same big-but-shallow world with janky-rear end gunplay and boring enemies with terrible animations, and from what I've seen of Starfield it's not much improved (not gonna buy it since it looks boring as hell). I still played Fallout 4 for like 80 hours, but that was mostly spent building my little town and desperately trying to make it feel meaningful it with piles of mods. They'd have to REALLY step up their game to impress me enough to buy ES6. Now that I've played Witcher 3, Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom, Baldur's Gate 3, and games with better base building like Valheim and Subnautica, I don't feel like there's anything Bethesda has done that comes close to equaling or surpassing anything in those games.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:05
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Rigged Death Trap posted:In the very first seasons Shaq?
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Jan 31, 2024 18:06
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Skyrim is a loving terrible action game, though. Like sure by the standards of The Elder Scrolls it's better than the previous games, but that bar is so far underground it could single-handedly settle the "is Nirn flat or spherical" debate
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Jan 31, 2024 18:24
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Elder Scrolls Online has Morrowind *and* Skyrim.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Skyrim is a loving terrible action game, though. Like sure by the standards of The Elder Scrolls it's better than the previous games, but that bar is so far underground it could single-handedly settle the "is Nirn flat or spherical" debate Yeah, but it was novel enough at the time to excuse the jank. Now we're overwhelmed with better options for open world action RPGs, both approaching and exceeding Skyrim scale. Rogue AI Goddess posted:Elder Scrolls Online has Morrowind *and* Skyrim. MMOs are the devil
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Jan 31, 2024 18:30
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Skyrim is a better game, Morrowind is more like an unstable acid trip while Todd Howard furiously teabags your soul.
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Jan 31, 2024 19:06
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I liked Morroblivion. That was a pretty good compromise between play styles.
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Jan 31, 2024 19:06
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Morrowind is a better sandbox RPG, Skyrim is a better action game and modern "check-the-box" open-world game (and is less janky, although Bethesda jank persists). It really depends on what your prefer, and you have to take into account one came out in 2002 and one in 2011. For me, I like Morrowind in concept, but it was really overwhelming to play (at least for the impatient kid I was at the time it came out). Skyrim was easier to get into and just lose yourself in, but ultimately the experience is a bit shallow. Saying "Morrowind is the better game because its worse" sounds like the most pretentious poo poo in the world but it's flaws really do help it express a very particular mode of play. It's kind of like (earlier version of) Minecraft where you can quickly become casually invincible and so the game instead revolves you inhabiting and exploring the game world rather than confronting dangers or fighting monsters. Struggle is for those who haven't achieved CHIM. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 19:16
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Morrowind was a great game 20 years ago, but is incredibly janky, with godawful combat and just skads of cruft and ancient design inbetween the great bits you remember. And I'm saying this as someone who spent maybe a thousand* drat hours playing Daggerfall when it came out. Read a dang wiki and get on with your life unless you are blinded with childhood nostalgia for it. * granted I was playing on a 486 with a 1 speed cd rom drive, so had to play on the smallest install and every load took multiple minutes, but hey, at least I actually did all my homework in between those loading screens.
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