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Darth Walrus posted:I assume that the setup here is that the first season will be about establishing the Hazbin Hotel as an officially-sanctioned route to redemption from Hell to Heaven, with Adam's Exorcists being crushed from both sides by Charlie's demon alliance and Emily playing rabble-rouser among the angels. it was probably a slight tactical whoopsie for adam to publicly broadcast his point of descent after everyone learned that angels are killable
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Jan 30, 2024 05:56
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Oxxidation posted:it was probably a slight tactical whoopsie for adam to publicly broadcast his point of descent after everyone learned that angels are killable Only Alastor and Carmilla (plus associates) know how though. But yes, I expect the Overlords might be forced to raply around the Hotel in episode 8.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:18
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"Valentino is a rabid dog who can only be so far away from slipping the leash and getting put down, " This is one of the most apt descriptions of his character I've seen. Like he's equal parts stupid as gently caress and a complete unhinged rage machine. I'm 100% sure the only reason he's survived this long is his pals continuously dragging his rear end out of the fire. But if that dynamic is ever disrupted he's going to launch himself at somebody he seriously shouldn't. Like straight up I could see him having a go at Lucifer since he's short and he thinks he could take him. He's already threatened Charlie once when it was just him and Vox and unfortunately due to her people pleasing he thinks he can take her now. This going to be his downfall in some way I'm sure of it.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:36
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We did get a brief glimpse of Charlie’s dark side in episode 4 though and it looked like she was about to lose it a couple times during the meeting in Heaven. I imagine she’s going to finally snap and kill/hurt someone before the series is through (and I’m hoping it’s either Adam or Val) And yeah, I assume the Overlords are gonna have to share their angel killing secrets soon if only to save their own asses (Vaggie might also have some ideas since she used to be one of them) Larryb fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 06:45
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Considering that Stolas is more powerful than Alastor is a bit funny, but then kinda realising it's easy to compare their personalities rather than what they've demonstrably done. Alastor seems implied to be about as powerful as a Sinner can get, possibly more given his mysterious patron if he's full Warlocking it up (and/or has Friends On The Other Side. The other Other Side?) but he's mostly shown in comparison to other Warlords, and like them he still seems confined to Pride. Stolas meanwhile literally has free access between all circles of Hell and Earth, and beyond for that matter in the mortal plane as he can travel through space, freely disguise as a human even without his grimoire, possess humans and create summoning circles (at the same time to summon himself!) Just the main different is attitude; Alastor's the pinnacle of Overlords and has to constantly establish his power and dominance to get a mote of respect, and also because he enjoys it, while for Stolas, being a demon wizard (or maybe more Cleric) is basically his fairly undemanding job, and he's middle-tier nobility otherwise, who's spent his life being told what to do and what role he plays in Hell, as well as having little reason to ever know how to fight or use his magic in a serious fight. ...that said, if they ever met, I get the feeling Alastor would politely make excuses to leave mostly because Stolas would have a decent chance of being down bad for him.
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Jan 30, 2024 07:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Considering that Stolas is more powerful than Alastor is a bit funny, but then kinda realising it's easy to compare their personalities rather than what they've demonstrably done. Alastor seems implied to be about as powerful as a Sinner can get, possibly more given his mysterious patron if he's full Warlocking it up (and/or has Friends On The Other Side. The other Other Side?) but he's mostly shown in comparison to other Warlords, and like them he still seems confined to Pride. Stolas meanwhile literally has free access between all circles of Hell and Earth, and beyond for that matter in the mortal plane as he can travel through space, freely disguise as a human even without his grimoire, possess humans and create summoning circles (at the same time to summon himself!) It never stops being hilarious to me how bad some characters/fans simp for this man who would want absolutely nothing to do with them. I also kinda love the fact the only one who really gets under his skin is Lucifer because dude is at the top of the food chain and doesn't even think he's worth acknowledging and can be as rude as he wants with impunity. Psychological tactics are all that Alastor's got because he knows he can never compete with a literal fallen seraphim and it drives him nuts. Vox could only dream of getting that reaction from him.
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Jan 30, 2024 08:51
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I also think there's a non-zero chance of Alastor making a proper heel turn so that Sir Pentious can replace him as the hotel's building supervisor. Seems like the sort of job in which the guy might finally flourish. As for Angel Dust, my bet is that he'll earn his halo and he'll stick around as a hotel staff member. If the Hazbin Hotel is going to become an official route from hell to heaven, it makes sense for it to have angels on its payroll as well, and it seems like the daily commute isn't especially challenging for those parties who are actually interested in it.
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Jan 30, 2024 09:19
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Darth Walrus posted:I also think there's a non-zero chance of Alastor making a proper heel turn so that Sir Pentious can replace him as the hotel's building supervisor. Seems like the sort of job in which the guy might finally flourish. I think Husk is actually more likely to end up taking Alastor's place as the Hotel patron. He's already an overlord (sort of), if he got his soul back from Alastor as part of said heel turn I could see him chosing to stay with the Hotel and take over Alastor's "duties".
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Jan 30, 2024 09:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:I think Husk is actually more likely to end up taking Alastor's place as the Hotel patron. He's already an overlord (sort of), if he got his soul back from Alastor as part of said heel turn I could see him chosing to stay with the Hotel and take over Alastor's "duties". In the hierarchy, maybe, but not in his actual job. He's the bartender, and no power in all the realms is going to shift him from tending that bar. Meanwhile, actually maintaining and developing the building seems more the territory of our resident snake nerd.
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Jan 30, 2024 09:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Just the main different is attitude; Alastor's the pinnacle of Overlords and has to constantly establish his power and dominance to get a mote of respect, and also because he enjoys it, while for Stolas, being a demon wizard (or maybe more Cleric) is basically his fairly undemanding job, and he's middle-tier nobility otherwise, who's spent his life being told what to do and what role he plays in Hell, as well as having little reason to ever know how to fight or use his magic in a serious fight. ...that said, if they ever met, I get the feeling Alastor would politely make excuses to leave mostly because Stolas would have a decent chance of being down bad for him. The other Overlords have made businesses if not provide a service or goods to the people of hell expanding their influence. Alastor doesn't other than standard deals and now his radio show again. The more souls you own the more powerful you are, we know that Vox actually beat him in a fight once. Alastors been gone for seven years, has he gained any new souls since then? Depending on the answer he could be vastly more powerful now than he was or stayed the same while the others like Vox only increased as time went on. Other than not being dead he's got to prove himself once again. The others have at least been around to keep up their profile. There is still the question of where Alastor has been, Earth? Lucifer - The King of Hell Charlie - The Princess of Hell, heir apparent to Hell's throne (Lilith is usually grouped here with Charlie, I suspect her power likely rivals Lucifer) The Seven Deadly Sins The Demons of Ars Goetia, which includes Stolas Overlords - Demons who wield considerable power Sinners - Demons who were once humans on Earth Hellborns, such as Succubi and Incubi, among other unknown demon species of Hell Lowest class Hellborns, such as Imps and Hellhounds - The bottom of Hell's society Here's a chart!  Lord_Magmar posted:I think Husk is actually more likely to end up taking Alastor's place as the Hotel patron. He's already an overlord (sort of), if he got his soul back from Alastor as part of said heel turn I could see him chosing to stay with the Hotel and take over Alastor's "duties". Husk is back to step one, hell he might be negative step one considering he has to serve Alastor. All the power of being an Overlord is pretty much gone. It's hard to say exactly how capable he still is, he can certainly fight but he's likely gambled most everything to Alastor long ago.
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Jan 30, 2024 15:36
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The Last Call posted:we know that Vox actually beat him in a fight once. We don't actually. We know by Valentino's words that Alastor almost beat Vox once, which is not the same thing Vox beating Alastor. A fight can end in many ways. Others can intervene, one party can retreat before getting beaten, or it can end in draw.
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Jan 30, 2024 16:09
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Warden posted:We don't actually. We know by Valentino's words that Alastor almost beat Vox once, which is not the same thing Vox beating Alastor. A fight can end in many ways. Others can intervene, one party can retreat before getting beaten, or it can end in draw. I took that as a draw myself. I think he'd be less pissed if he'd won.
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Jan 30, 2024 16:11
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I find it really curious that we've seen her face in a lot of paintings now, but when she picked up Charlie in the memory of her visiting her dad, they didn't give her a face. that's because she fell in a vat of acid and became the joker
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Jan 30, 2024 16:14
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Warden posted:We don't actually. We know by Valentino's words that Alastor almost beat Vox once, which is not the same thing Vox beating Alastor. A fight can end in many ways. Others can intervene, one party can retreat before getting beaten, or it can end in draw. A fair point.
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Jan 30, 2024 16:29
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I realized there's kind of enough circumstantial evidence to create a theory that Alastor is a hack fraud. Mimzy did state nobody respected Alastor initially despite him making a splash, then the radio broadcasts started, and then Alastor announced he was the radio demon. She also stated he hasn't done anything like that in a long time, and it could be the reason is that he can't - whether its because he was just cover for someone else or whoever's his patron lent him enough power to do that only once doesn't really matter. We know he's insecure, hates being disrespected and he was a bit more subdued in the presence of other overlords than the impression he gives to lesser demons. Losing/drawing against Vox despite him disappearing big shot overlords before? That could have been him trying to prove that he can do his thing without whoever holds his leash, and he found out that he actually can't do it without help. His big shows of power so far? He trashed Pentious, the biggest loser of all time, and a bunch of hellborn demons incredibly similar to the ones Husk and Angel Dust had trashed just a couple of episodes ago. Most of the people in the Hazbin Hotel are also more or less losers and gently caress ups, so its not hard to think he also fits the bill. I don't actually think its very likely this theory is correct, but its very funny that you could make the argument.
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Jan 30, 2024 16:38
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SpiritOfLenin posted:
He also named the hotel Hazbin, after agreeing to stay there. Bit of self shade ;p
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Jan 30, 2024 17:15
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Yeah, the entire point of of 'Stayed Gone' is that Vox is trying to prove that he's on top now and Alastor can't humiliate him any more, only for Alastor to effortlessly do precisely that. It doesn't even seem like he fought him to a draw, more like the Radio Demon kicked his rear end and then got distracted halfway through. The big deer dude has his insecurities and limitations, but it really doesn't seem like a putz like Vox is capable of exploiting them.
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Jan 30, 2024 17:48
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Considering that Stolas is more powerful than Alastor is a bit funny, but then kinda realising it's easy to compare their personalities rather than what they've demonstrably done. Alastor seems implied to be about as powerful as a Sinner can get, possibly more given his mysterious patron if he's full Warlocking it up (and/or has Friends On The Other Side. The other Other Side?) but he's mostly shown in comparison to other Warlords, and like them he still seems confined to Pride. Stolas meanwhile literally has free access between all circles of Hell and Earth, and beyond for that matter in the mortal plane as he can travel through space, freely disguise as a human even without his grimoire, possess humans and create summoning circles (at the same time to summon himself!) thats sorta why i like stolas so much. he is weird nerdy nepo failson but mostly just spends it reading/job or chasing his crush or being a disney princess. I am pretty sure he doesnt even want the title and wants to just gently caress off with blitz or find happyness in like a library or something. I think he could kick a poo poo ton of rear end but doesnt because its not his thing and only does when pushed. we have only seen hint of it at dhorks. Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, the entire point of of 'Stayed Gone' is that Vox is trying to prove that he's on top now and Alastor can't humiliate him any more, only for Alastor to effortlessly do precisely that. It doesn't even seem like he fought him to a draw, more like the Radio Demon kicked his rear end and then got distracted halfway through. i mean my view is most of the other overlords are like weird putzs or broken mad dogs who can't think beyond their own appetites, the others are entrenched and don't do much because they dont need too anymore. alastor was apperently a tumblr super serial killer when he was alive so i can see why he has better planning and long term thinking then some dumb rapist mothman and hells elon musk.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:24
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SpiritOfLenin posted:I realized there's kind of enough circumstantial evidence to create a theory that Alastor is a hack fraud. Mimzy did state nobody respected Alastor initially despite him making a splash, then the radio broadcasts started, and then Alastor announced he was the radio demon. She also stated he hasn't done anything like that in a long time, and it could be the reason is that he can't - whether its because he was just cover for someone else or whoever's his patron lent him enough power to do that only once doesn't really matter. We know he's insecure, hates being disrespected and he was a bit more subdued in the presence of other overlords than the impression he gives to lesser demons. Losing/drawing against Vox despite him disappearing big shot overlords before? That could have been him trying to prove that he can do his thing without whoever holds his leash, and he found out that he actually can't do it without help. His big shows of power so far? He trashed Pentious, the biggest loser of all time, and a bunch of hellborn demons incredibly similar to the ones Husk and Angel Dust had trashed just a couple of episodes ago. Most of the people in the Hazbin Hotel are also more or less losers and gently caress ups, so its not hard to think he also fits the bill. If you combine this with the 'Lilith owns his soul' thing you could conclude that since all of Alastor's displays of real power seem to only be in support of the hotel, that one of his restrictions is that the power he has been granted can only be put toward limited purposes.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:32
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SpiritOfLenin posted:I realized there's kind of enough circumstantial evidence to create a theory that Alastor is a hack fraud. Mimzy did state nobody respected Alastor initially despite him making a splash, then the radio broadcasts started, and then Alastor announced he was the radio demon. She also stated he hasn't done anything like that in a long time, and it could be the reason is that he can't - whether its because he was just cover for someone else or whoever's his patron lent him enough power to do that only once doesn't really matter. We know he's insecure, hates being disrespected and he was a bit more subdued in the presence of other overlords than the impression he gives to lesser demons. Losing/drawing against Vox despite him disappearing big shot overlords before? That could have been him trying to prove that he can do his thing without whoever holds his leash, and he found out that he actually can't do it without help. His big shows of power so far? He trashed Pentious, the biggest loser of all time, and a bunch of hellborn demons incredibly similar to the ones Husk and Angel Dust had trashed just a couple of episodes ago. Most of the people in the Hazbin Hotel are also more or less losers and gently caress ups, so its not hard to think he also fits the bill. i dont think he is an out and out hack fraud But i do think he is more smoke and mirrors and Littlefinger type power player then some all mighty monster. I think alot of his power comes from knowing who to pick fights with and when.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:50
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i think it makes a lot of sense that he made some sort of deal to take the credit and power from toppling overlords in exchange for the true killer being able to move towards their ends in secret
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Jan 30, 2024 18:55
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Alastor’s probably more powerful than the average Sinner (and was already a seasoned killer back when he was alive) but is likely still a little fish compared to some of the other heavy hitters in Hell (Stolas or one of the Sins would likely crush him easily). As mentioned, he’s just smart enough to know how and when to pick his battles Sort of curious if we’ll formally meet Lilith at all during the last two episodes or if they’re saving her for a later arc
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Jan 30, 2024 18:56
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Honestly i'm okay with a quick glance or a short scene of her talking to Alastor but not more than that. Preserving the mystery there is something I think the show really needs.
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Jan 30, 2024 19:02
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Larryb posted:Alastor’s probably more powerful than the average Sinner (and was already a seasoned killer back when he was alive) but is likely still a little fish compared to some of the other heavy hitters in Hell (Stolas or one of the Sins would likely crush him easily). As mentioned, he’s just smart enough to know how and when to pick his battles Yeah. i think we get like a post credit thing of alastor meeting lilith but thats it if that. Honestly with alastor vs the sins or even stolas. I just kinda get this vibe. he doesnt strike me as DUMB as this but still. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab6GyR_5N6c
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Jan 30, 2024 20:15
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I think Alastor understands his limitations. He just doesn't like them, and prefers to avoid situations where they might come into play. Assuming that he was press-ganged by Lilith into serving as Charlie's patron, his antagonism towards Lucifer mainly came from his fear of being replaced in a job he couldn't escape, which was yet another reason why he blew the gently caress up at Husk. He's not like Valentino, who just lashes out without bothering to gauge the threat he's up against first, or Vox, whose territorial aggression borders on suicidal. If they're out of his league, he just leaves 'em alone unless they force his hand (like Lucifer) or offer an opportunity he can't resist (like Charlie).
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Jan 30, 2024 20:35
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I think it's worth keeping in mind that we ain't operating in DBZ power level territory where being more powerful makes you unbeatable by anyone below you. Last time we saw Stolas he was almost killed by a simple hellborne and it wasn't really treated like something especially noteworthy. It wouldn't suprise me if there have been Overlords that have challenged members of the Ars Goetia, but the fact that sinners are limited to pride ring probably prevents those types of conflicts.
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Jan 30, 2024 22:13
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Njashi9 posted:I think it's worth keeping in mind that we ain't operating in DBZ power level territory where being more powerful makes you unbeatable by anyone below you. Last time we saw Stolas he was almost killed by a simple hellborne and it wasn't really treated like something especially noteworthy. yeah, its not DBZ number maxing. its more depends on the person. while i think alastor would get his head ripped off by stolas or any other bigger demon, i also think like someone said, alastor knows how to pick fights and plan them out and to not pick fights at all when the time calls for it. he clearly gets along well enough with other overlords and is fine at being a chair at the table of power. clearly he wants to be the head of it all or somehting to that but he is for now content to gently caress with fuckboi morons like vox.
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Jan 30, 2024 22:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, its not DBZ number maxing. its more depends on the person. while i think alastor would get his head ripped off by stolas or any other bigger demon, i also think like someone said, alastor knows how to pick fights and plan them out and to not pick fights at all when the time calls for it. he clearly gets along well enough with other overlords and is fine at being a chair at the table of power. clearly he wants to be the head of it all or somehting to that but he is for now content to gently caress with fuckboi morons like vox. With Vox he clearly enjoys dicking around with him just for entertainment but Lucifer is more personal because he knows he's can't do poo poo on the battlefield. So instead he's using his daughter as a means of loving with him.
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Jan 30, 2024 23:18
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Njashi9 posted:I think it's worth keeping in mind that we ain't operating in DBZ power level territory where being more powerful makes you unbeatable by anyone below you. Last time we saw Stolas he was almost killed by a simple hellborne and it wasn't really treated like something especially noteworthy. It's not DBZ, but this is the stated hierarchy of those in Hell. I'm sure those smart and wily, cunning and clever can get the better of someone stronger but it's probably a trickier matter without some trump card. Stolas himself can turn people into stone with a look. There are simply some just way too powerful to defeat for someone beneath them. It's why sinners are terrified of Overlords despite those people being one step higher. Yet those Overlords were sinners, the fact they were able to rise up and tackle others shows one can move up, it depends on how you go about it. In this case, gaining ownership over souls. More souls equals more power. How it exactly works we still don't know, time may tell. The Last Call fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 23:24
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Also Stolas was helpless against Striker when he got kidnapped because he was tied up with angelic rope. He couldn't use his powers. Striker would not have been able to do anything to Stolas if he had lasso'd him with regular rope
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Jan 30, 2024 23:36
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So turns out Charlie actually does have hoof feet. That's interesting.
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Jan 31, 2024 02:13
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Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, the entire point of of 'Stayed Gone' is that Vox is trying to prove that he's on top now and Alastor can't humiliate him any more, only for Alastor to effortlessly do precisely that. It doesn't even seem like he fought him to a draw, more like the Radio Demon kicked his rear end and then got distracted halfway through. I can't help but think that Alastor let Vox go just because the entire symbology of the tv vs radio rivalry is way too much fun to waste on destroying him right away. That's the kind of antagonism you cherish and nurture.
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Jan 31, 2024 02:25
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Flopsy posted:So turns out Charlie actually does have hoof feet. That's interesting. Where did that info come from? I don’t think we’ve ever seen her without shoes Also apparently there’s more to her full demon form than what we saw in episode 4 (unless one of the wikis just put up some fanart or something) so we’ll probably be seeing that eventually
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Jan 31, 2024 02:31
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Larryb posted:Where did that info come from? I don’t think we’ve ever seen her without shoes In the trailer video for episode 7 you see her bare feet and she has goat hooves. It was a theory that's been going around for a while ( honestly didn't really pay attention to it) but apparently it's true.
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Jan 31, 2024 02:36
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That appears to have not actually been linked here, so to rectify that here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oYWN3fNzYk
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Jan 31, 2024 02:38
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We get a little more insight into Alastor’s mind in this clip too. Looking forward to seeing what they’ve got in store for the finale and hopefully S2 won’t be too far behind Do we have a date set for HB’s return for that matter? I think I heard it was supposed to be sometime in April Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 02:43
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Flopsy posted:With Vox he clearly enjoys dicking around with him just for entertainment but Lucifer is more personal because he knows he's can't do poo poo on the battlefield. So instead he's using his daughter as a means of loving with him. I think that it's the other way around - he's genuinely invested in Charlie (though probably not for particularly pleasant reasons) and is cranky and territorial because an extremely powerful, benign parent-figure is showing up to replace him. This recent clip was interesting, though, in that while he's still a predatory, untrustworthy creep, he seems to be sincerely starting to engage with acting as her mentor. Maybe he's still playing her, and maybe he's catching something loosely approximating actual feelings. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 03:08
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that it's the other way around - he's genuinely invested in Charlie (though probably not for particularly pleasant reasons) and is cranky and territorial because an extremely powerful, benign parent-figure is showing up to replace him. I think that's the most interesting mystery around Alastor, whether or not he actually is starting to give a drat about her or it's all a part of the long con on his part.
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Jan 31, 2024 03:18
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Flopsy posted:I think that's the most interesting mystery around Alastor, whether or not he actually is starting to give a drat about her or it's all a part of the long con on his part. And also the third dimension of how much he's looking out for her because her mum is forcing him to.
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Jan 31, 2024 03:59
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Flopsy posted:I think that's the most interesting mystery around Alastor, whether or not he actually is starting to give a drat about her or it's all a part of the long con on his part.
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Jan 31, 2024 04:05
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