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I always felt Dukat worked better as the face of Cardassian oppression when he wasn't 'pure evil'. Making Dukat a supervillain seemed to be missing the point - the Cardassian occupation as a whole was a crime, even if Dukat really was doing his best to avoid the worst excesses. (It also made him a nice parallel for Odo, who also claims that he was doing the best he could within an unjust system...)
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Jan 31, 2024 06:13
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Dukat is Barack Obama, as interpreted by right-wing religious fundamentalist terrorists (who are the major Bajoran representatives in the show).
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Jan 31, 2024 06:18
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Didn't they have Dukat go in that direction because they were seeing people admiring him and poo poo online? And it was like: No, this guy is Actually Bad.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:21
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People also thought they blew up the Enterprise.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:46
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Boxturret posted:People also thought they blew up the Enterprise. Yeah. If you make your show explain itself, it will lessen your show. That said, TV writing in general back in the 90s wasn't as good as it (can be) these days. Writers who use subtext are cowards and all that.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:51
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Boxturret posted:People also thought they blew up the Enterprise. I liked Dukat going evil but going evil via the Pah Wraiths was dumb. He's much better as a political threat than a literal deus ex machina. Have him "defect" and talk his way into being a Federation war advisor manipulating things to his own agenda or something.
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Jan 31, 2024 07:16
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Yeah, going from Hitler to Satan was the wrong move. That's really my only beef with where his character went.
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Jan 31, 2024 08:04
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It did get him out of the way for Damar though. If they had decided to keep him competent evil instead of crazy evil they might not've done that storyline.
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Jan 31, 2024 08:23
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Him being arrested by the Federation after his mental break could have still happened allowing Damar's character to rise to power while Dukat manipulated the Federation from within.
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Jan 31, 2024 08:36
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I'm pretty sure there are stories that the writers themselves were going back and forth on Dukat before they finally went all-in on him being evil. Which I guess helped them to build out the complexity of the character more. There was theoretically some avenue for him to really turn around from the love of his daughter opening his mind, but after she died, he broke. And while it's kinda fun to see him give up on trying to be reasonable from his perspective and sink into hate, he gets pretty boring after that, and I don't think tossing fireballs in hell while trying to grab control of a space-magic prophecy is a good narrative finish for an otherwise character-driven story.
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Jan 31, 2024 15:02
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The thing about Dukat is that he was horrifically evil at every step of the way, so going over the top wasn't really necessary. He never turned evil, he just became a comic book villain. Later season Dukat is arguably less evil because he's so ridiculous and silly, whereas early Dukat straight-up oversaw concentration camps and genocide. Trying to write around deficiencies in your audience just never works out, and it would have been easy to show Dukat going mask-off without actually changing anything about his character.
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Jan 31, 2024 15:44
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ashpanash posted:Yeah. If you make your show explain itself, it will lessen your show. What I really like when I watch the old star treks compared to (most of) the new stuff though is I'll sometimes have a question like "wait, why didn't they just" and the show actually covers that. It feels like they've had a proper think about what they need to do about a situation and explained why they've not done X and Y and settled on Z The new ones don't do that. So yea it's annoying that they're responding to the audience but I'd take what they have over the alternative
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Jan 31, 2024 16:43
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Although cartoon character Dukat gave us his "gotta find a way to pull this out of my rear end" with his cult baby
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Jan 31, 2024 19:33
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Sash! posted:Although cartoon character Dukat gave us his "gotta find a way to pull this out of my rear end" with his cult baby That was the last good Dukat episode
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Jan 31, 2024 19:44
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No Dignity posted:That was the last good Dukat episode / 
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Jan 31, 2024 19:55
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No Dignity posted:That was the last good Dukat episode Yeah, it really sucks that the pah-wraith plotline doesn't really go anywhere in the end other than a laughably bad final fight scene.
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Jan 31, 2024 20:00
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Can you imagine the implications to Bajoran society to have the pope, the messiah, and their main link to the Federation just vanish on the same day with unclear reports as to what happened to them? The writers sure didn't care to. It's such a politically-minded show up to that point. Oh yeah, also that one suspected exiled Cardassian assassin suddenly returns home at about the same time.
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Feb 1, 2024 01:23
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No Dignity posted:That was the last good Dukat episode
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Feb 1, 2024 01:47
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SlothfulCobra posted:Can you imagine the implications to Bajoran society to have the pope, the messiah, and their main link to the Federation just vanish on the same day with unclear reports as to what happened to them? Including his wife saying she got a vision from him telling her he'd joined the prophets.
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Feb 1, 2024 02:00
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Zedd posted:While the overarching stuff wasn't great. The Dukat and Winn stuff was pretty decent, especially her finding out. Agree. The story wasn't good but those two actors in a room is worth watching anyway.
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Feb 1, 2024 02:07
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SlothfulCobra posted:Can you imagine the implications to Bajoran society to have the pope, the messiah, and their main link to the Federation just vanish on the same day with unclear reports as to what happened to them? Disappearing without a trace is very messiah-ish
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Feb 1, 2024 03:33
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:Disappearing without a trace is very messiah-ish SISKO WILL RETURN
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Feb 1, 2024 03:36
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Accipiter posted:SISKO WILL RETURN Again, very messiah-ish
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Feb 1, 2024 04:10
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Accipiter posted:SISKO WILL RETURN 
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Feb 1, 2024 12:20
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Far Beyond The Stars: wasn't really able to appreciate this one as a kid, but it's good and fun to see guys like JG Hertzler, Auberjonois and Shimerman out of make-up. drat, Michael Dorn is handsome. You can really tell Brooks' theater background at the end there when he's EMOTING FOR THE BACK ROWWWWS
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Feb 1, 2024 20:02
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dr_rat posted:Dude, It's been twenty four years, I don't think he's coming back. Yes but what about Jesus how long has it been now?
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Feb 1, 2024 21:32
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The original plan was for it to be explicit that Sisko was basically leaving forever but Brooks balked at the stereotype of the non-present black father, and since his role as a father was so central to his character (and to his personal relationship with Cirroc Lofton), he made them change it. I always liked that. I feel like Sisko's ambivalence towards the Vegas heist was intended to mirror Brooks' problems with downplaying issues from the civil rights era. Aside from that episode, are there other episodes that mention the struggle for equality in the 1960s? I always felt that was shocking to see in your usually anodyne Star Trek political statements. Jake saying the n-word in FBTS was similarly shocking, but as far as I can recall those are the only two instances in which anti-black racism from the 20th century is directly addressed in Star Trek, though I'm happy to stand corrected.
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Feb 1, 2024 21:36
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I mean, there’s “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”. And I guess Uhura shutting down Lincoln in “Savage Curtain”. Neither attempt has aged over well
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Feb 1, 2024 22:21
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Kirk and Uhura kissing
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Feb 1, 2024 22:27
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I thought for sure Drive was going to end with B'Elanna escaping her dumb relationship with Tom but no we're doubling the gently caress down.
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Feb 2, 2024 00:06
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I wonder if Sisko dissappearing allowed Jake to write his award winning book later on but without the suicidial obsession to bring his dad back.
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Feb 2, 2024 00:10
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The only problem with Sisko saying he will be back is that it doesn’t change anything! Kasidy is still a single mother bringing up his child, but now she has to live her life wondering if today is the day Ben comes back. I think the only reasonable way to handle it would be her going back to their house on Bajor and finding Ben inside cooking and asking her what took so long?
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Feb 2, 2024 00:24
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Zaroff posted:The only problem with Sisko saying he will be back is that it doesn’t change anything! That's canon as far as I'm concerned.
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Feb 2, 2024 00:33
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My little headcanon is that Sisko is 'still missing' to the galaxy but yeah he's just been chilling back at their house and hasn't told anyone but family and friends.
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Feb 2, 2024 00:41
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"It's hard to say. Maybe a year, maybe... Yesterday?" Narrator: It was yesterday.
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Feb 2, 2024 01:25
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He didn't really "abandon" them like he went out for cigarettes and he didn't come back. He sorta died?
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Feb 2, 2024 01:56
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Sash! posted:He didn't really "abandon" them like he went out for cigarettes and he didn't come back. He sorta died? It was extremely unclear.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:21
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MikeJF posted:My little headcanon is that Sisko is 'still missing' to the galaxy but yeah he's just been chilling back at their house and hasn't told anyone but family and friends. I'm stealing your headcanon.
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Feb 2, 2024 03:27
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I agree. It is super unclear. He's literally falling into the Eternal Fire Caves of Hell or whatever and GOES INTO THE LIGHT then ends up with space gods? I mean...that sort of implies he loving died. But then he didn't? But also he's in space heaven and no longer obeys the laws of time and space. So he's kind of like a ghost now? It doesn't make any sense.
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Feb 2, 2024 03:28
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:36 |
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New head canon: The Sisko can only reappear when you light a special Sisko Candle.
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Feb 2, 2024 03:29
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